Talk:Wars provoked by Deep State

Expanding the scope

I personally believe the scope of this article should be expanded to include wars directly started by the Deep State in addition to wars provoked by the Deep State through less direct means. What do you think, Andy?--Geopolitician (talk) 20:35, March 4, 2022 (EST)

What do you have in mind specifically? Sounds fascinating.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 20:41, March 4, 2022 (EST)

Vietnam and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which was concocted as much as Hitler's pretext for the invasion of Poland. It was based on AP reports from the CIA, which Congress and the public swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

One would think the Vietnam generation has moved passed MSM reporting by now, and adopt a skepticism toward government narratives. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 20:49, March 4, 2022 (EST)

Great point about how the Vietnam War was started by the Deep State. LBJ felt he needed to pretend that the U.S. was attacked in order for LBJ to win reelection in 1964.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 21:04, March 4, 2022 (EST)

Here are a few of my takes:

1) The Gulf War was directly started by the Deep State, not provoked by it. It's highly debatable whether April Glaspie's comments to Saddam constituted a "green light" for him to invade, but even if they did that doesn't mean we had to go to war. As a matter of fact, we didn't have to go to war. But in the end we did go to war, because the Deep State saw Saddam's invasion as a threat to the petrodollar scheme Nixon and Kissinger set up with Saudi Arabia back in 1974. And the Deep State created multiple false narratives to dupe the American public into demanding war and thus giving the conflict some sort of "legitimacy."

2) The War on Terror was directly started by the Deep State, also on false pretenses. Not only did the Deep State intentionally allow 9/11 to happen, it also lied to the American public about which country was the primary backer of bin Laden. It was not Afghanistan; it was not Iraq; it was not even Iran. It was Saudi Arabia, a country we have and still do treat as a vital ally.

3) The Iraq War was directly started by the Deep State, also on false pretenses. Do I even need to explain this one?

4) The conflicts caused by the Arab Spring were directly started by the Deep State, since it was the CIA who propped up the relevant Islamist uprisings.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:45, March 4, 2022 (EST)

Arab Spring, yes, definitely. The Syrian and Libyan wars were started by the Deep State. As to Saudi Arbia, we've discussed this at length. You still do not understand the difference between the Saudi government Saudi oligarchs, or understand the Islamic system of governance. Did bin Laden have some support from rich Saudi citizens for overthrowing the Saudi government? Yes. Did the Saudi government take action in the form of sanctions against the dissidents to protect itself? No. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 00:09, March 5, 2022 (EST)

So, because commercial, financial, and banking transactions are reported in the West between Saudi citizens and al Qaeda, that does not mean the Saudi government sponsored it, as you naively believe. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 00:12, March 5, 2022 (EST)

Provoking vs appeasement

Andy, I'm not sure if events such as Acheson's speech at the National Press Club or April Glaspie's comments to Saddam Hussein constitute acts of provocation. They sound like much more like acts of appeasement, in stark contrast to the blatant warmongering against Russia which ultimately resulted in the invasion of Ukraine.--Geopolitician (talk) 23:15, March 4, 2022 (EST)

The term "appeasement" is misused a lot. I can also mean delaying an inevitable conflict until a more advantageous time. It should not be regarded as some eternal doctrine to be applied. It can voted out in a heartbeat. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 00:17, March 5, 2022 (EST)

World War I, World War II, and Korea

I'm not sure if those wars qualify as being provoked by the Deep State, if for any reason because back in those days many of the agencies that compose the Deep State were either in their infancy or not yet created. The wars we've fought since and including Vietnam, on the other hand, is another story.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:08, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

Woodrow Wilson: "Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” - At that time, we can pretty much say it existed outside government, in media and banking, etc. it was Wilson who partnered and brought it inside government, creation of the Fed, war propaganda, the debt ceiling Act, the Espionage Act, etc.

As to WWII, I don't really want to get into most of it now, but if you compare the quote of Adolf Hitler (various translation) of, "If international Jewish finance plunges the nations once more into a world war, it will be the end of the Jewish race in Europe", or words to that effect, and compare it with the activities of Harry Dexter White, you come up with some interesting leads. I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying Hitler believed it was true, and White worked for the Comintern in the US Treasury Department. So whatever "deep state" existed in those days was closely connected to the Comintern and KGB.

As to Korea, you need some background understanding on both world wars, and we don't have the time or space here right now to get into it. RobS^{Give Peace a Chance!} 22:35, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

With McCarthyism, KGB influence and control of the "deep state" that existed under FDR & Truman was booted out, and an extreme reaction set in against Soviet communism, culminating in the assassination of JFK & Vietnam war (largely led by WWII & Korean war veterans' in the deep state who felt betrayed for the sacrifices they made in thoise two wars). RobS^{Give Peace a Chance!} 22:42, August 21, 2023 (EDT)