Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay: Why Russia's religious persecution of Russian Protestants is not good for Russia"

Latest revision as of 02:16, January 3, 2023

The only problem with this Essay is is the false implication that Protestants are being singled out. If the Orthodox church or Muslims engaged in the same civil law breaking, they'd be harassed by the government as well. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:13, January 2, 2023 (EST)

The problem basically surrounds unpermitted street Evangelism. Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Muslims, and Jews typically do not engage in such activity. Unpermitted handing out tracts for example, can be considered in many countries unsolicited, or harassment under civil ordinances. That problem for Evangelicals is not limited to Russia.

Furthermore, you have not cited any section of the federal code. Russia, like the U.S., has even a much stronger application of laws analogous the U.S. Constitutions 10th Amendment. Granted, there are federal extremism laws, as in the West and much of the world has; so that is a problem street preachers have to deal with personally themselves in any civilized society regarding social norms. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:25, January 2, 2023 (EST)

I am not sure at what point you posted your talk page post in relation to me creating this essay. With that being said, I subscribe to the religious marketplace place theory (Which my essay mentions) and a society having much religious freedom. State churches and/or a church having too close of ties to a state breeds complacency. If you disagree with me, then I am afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree. I do have to prepare for a meeting tomorrow and I have a busy week this week. Conservative (talk) 18:55, January 2, 2023 (EST)

So what's the difference between Russia and the UK regarding a state religion? UK has extremist laws, too, and will jail anybody for trash talking Islam. UK has drunks and a declining rate of national increase, as well (kept afloat only by immigration, like the US). Not balancing your premise here with facts is what make this Essay look and sound globalist and Russophobic.

Oh, and it was opening Russia up to investment by Western oligarchs and the globohomo agenda that led to declining fertility and life expectancy, not the legacy of communism. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:34, January 2, 2023 (EST)

And that part of your premise is disgusting - Russians never voted for communism, so blame the victim (if she wasn't wearing that short skirt, it never would have happened). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:40, January 2, 2023 (EST)

As to your "religious marketplace theory", 40% of the Russian population would rather live in religious freedom under Christian Russia than under Wahhabism, Salafism, or a Caliph, and practice their own brand of Islam freely. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:49, January 2, 2023 (EST)

By now, I think I have made it clear enough, but if I have not, I am not a fan of the UK's government - which is a sentiment widely held even in the UK. And to be frank, I think you are engaging in whataboutism. It is certainly possible for the UK and Russia to both have poor governance. Anyways, I think we have unreconcilable ideas regarding how much religious liberty a nation has and I don't think you are addressing the issue of the religious marketplace and the amount of complaisancy that exists in Russian Orthodox Church which has a church attendance rate of 1%. And the proof is in the pudding and there is not a lot of fertility rate pudding in Russia which has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world today. The Apostle Paul wrote: "But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint." (1 Timothy 2:15).

Next, while I agree with religious pluralism and religious liberty within a nation, having an immigration policy that allows a lot of Muslim immigration is a bad idea (See: What Islam Isn't - Dr. Peter Hammond).

Anyways, I have about 8 to 16 hours of things to do before my meeting tomorrow so I better put my nose to the grindstone. Conservative (talk) 19:56, January 2, 2023 (EST)

No, it's not whataboutism. It's an effort to make your Essay appear less Russophobic and like globalist propaganda by providing a balance. Russia has religious freedom, like the UK. Ask any Muslim in either country. But you totally distort that fact with bias and Russophobia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:01, January 2, 2023 (EST)

Russia was desecularized with the collapse of the USSR, and adopted an official state religion, allowing religious freedom for non-Orthodox. Fact. Your arguments are contradictory, and not well thought out. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:06, January 2, 2023 (EST)

When homosexual activists reflexively cry out, "homophobia" it is weak toast argumentation and weak rhetoric. Likewise, your incessant whines of Russophobia are tiresome.

And you still have not shown that I am "Russophobic". That will be a very hard allegation for you to maintain considering that I have a fairly large collection of Russian Orthodox Church music and Russian music amongst the material I listen to as can be clearly seen by the links given at: [1][2][3][4] Conservative (talk) 20:13, January 2, 2023 (EST)

Sharing one's faith with the unconverted is a Christian duty. And I am sure that Don Ossewaarde wouldn't agree with you about the extent of religious freedom in Russia. Conservative (talk) 20:21, January 2, 2023 (EST)

(ec) I've shown your arguments about desecularization are contradictory. And I said appear Russophobic and like globalist propaganda. What's amatta, you can't hear? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:23, January 2, 2023 (EST)

It's a simple matter of public safety you will find all around the world: In a nation with a 40% Muslim population, in order to avoid an evangelical preacher getting his throat slit, and a Muslim charged with murder, preaching the gospel outside a regulated venue can be, and is regulated by civil law. Muslims and Jews typically do not stand on street corners preaching Mohammad or Judaism. A Christian preacher still must abide by the societal norms and laws of the culture they live in. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:29, January 2, 2023 (EST)

Appear Russophobic? To whom? You? Stop being a drama queen. It's still very unpersuasive.

According to US Department of State, in 2017, Muslims in Russia numbered 14 million or roughly 10% of the total population.[5] At 10% of the population, Muslims cause problems in society (See: What Islam Isn't - Dr. Peter Hammond) Oh, well. The horse is already out of the barn. I guess that is another reason why I am not bullish on the future of Russia (See: Why I am not bullish on Russia's future).

"But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men." - Acts 5:29 Conservative (talk) 20:47, January 2, 2023 (EST)

State Dept? What a joke. You can't be serious.

So then you respond to an allegation of Russophobia with Islamophobia. Smart move. This whole thing (and a bunch of writings) look like globalist trash talking points, and not very well thought out.

Now, on to the question of being subjected to "the powers that be." Many if not most Christian preachers I've listened to say it's the civil authority. What say you? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:55, January 2, 2023 (EST)

I believe Christians should follow the example of Peter and the apostles given in Acts 5:29.

At this point, I think it is best if we just agree to disagree. I just finished my dinner so I am going to attend to the work I have to do before my meeting tomorrow. Conservative (talk)