Talk:Murder of Seth Rich

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request for reliable source

I have read the claim on the internet that Seth Rich had been slated to give testimony to some agency, congress, or government office. However, none of the sources I have seen for this are what seem to me reliable sources. If someone knows of a reliable source for such a claim, it would make a contribution to this article. But a mere rumor or reference to some individual comment on the internet would harm the article. (Thunkful2 (talk) 14:34, 16 August 2016 (EDT))

Rename article?

I object, because at one point it was important. Most talk page discussions eventually become irrelevant, but it doesn't mean we have to delete them. We should keep it as a record. Talk pages are made for discussions like these (as well as the others here). --1990'sguy (talk) 22:10, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

Should we take the "The" out of the article name so it reads just "Murder of Seth Rich"? --1990'sguy (talk) 16:11, 17 August 2016 (EDT)

Why take out "the"? To me the name seems more natural with "the." Compare the poem by Robert Service, "The Cremation of Sam McGee" --LOL. What are the advantages of the change? (Thunkful2 (talk) 17:11, 17 August 2016 (EDT))
If I was creating this article, I probably would name it without the word "The" in front, since it seems to me that people are less likely to search for "The murder..." or "The election..." that they are to search for just "murder..." or "election..." That said, I don't think it's a problem to have a name starting with "the"--it probably doesn't matter much. If the consensus is to move this, I'd be happy to do that for you, but I don't think it's necessary. --David B (TALK) 17:30, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
I just prefer it without the "The" because when I search articles, I just don't write the "The" when I search articles. So, when I searched for this article, it didn't show up in the search box. If no one else does this like me, then we obviously shouldn't move the article. Maybe a redirect? --1990'sguy (talk) 20:02, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
This page does show up on the actual search page, but you're right, nothing shows as you type it in. A redirect certainly wouldn't hurt. --David B (TALK) 20:12, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
Fine, rename it. I don't know how. And thanks for the help. I note that when you search for this article on Google, it does not come up at all (search "The murder of seth rich conservapedia" or "murder of seth rich" conservapedia, & you get nothing. Neither does this article result for "The murder of Seth Rich site:". However, it does come up on Yahoo's search engine. I wonder if Google discriminates vs Conservapedia??? (Thunkful2 (talk) 22:13, 17 August 2016 (EDT))

That sounds reluctant--I'm not trying to force you into anything!
Renaming can only be done by users who have been given the "Move" privilege. Since you're new here, I assume you do not have it yet. If you want pages moved, just place {{move|TARGET}}
at the top of the page, with "target" being the new name. Then hopefully I or another person who can more pages will notice it and do as requested.
As for the search results, Google is a very liberal company, and we know that they do screen their results for political reasons. It could very well be that they are blocking CP. However, if you wanted to be nice, you could say that perhaps they haven't crawled the page yet. In Google's defense, Yahoo is extremely liberal too, so they have good reason not to show CP pages, but they do it anyway. --David B (TALK) 01:18, 18 August 2016 (EDT)

Thanks for the very considerate reply. But I am not reluctant at all; the reasons given for changing the name were convincing to me. So go right ahead and change the name. I will have to study what you wrote there on how to do it. I don't know what moving has to do with changing a name. Is "move" just the wiki term for change name? So I would post as the first line in the article: {{move|MURDER OF SETH RICH}}
even using all caps for the name of the article, including the nowiki stuff? Or is the nowiki stuff done here to prevent causing some wiki language action? -- Now I notice that the nowiki stuff doesn't show except in edit mode. (Thunkful2 (talk) 01:50, 18 August 2016 (EDT))

Alright, I'll move this article then.
Your assumption is basically correct. As far as the wiki is concerned, a page cannot be renamed. However, the content and history of a page can be moved to another page, thus achieving the same result as renaming.
I should have been more clear regarding the move template. Perhaps an example would be helpful--The page Binary bit currently have a genuine move request on it. To request a move, you would want to do the same thing as was done on that page. I used the "nowiki" tags so the example I was trying to give you did not actually load as a move request. As you suggested, they prevent the wiki software from acting on whatever is inside them. You would not use the nowiki tags in actual flagging. Also, the new proposed name should be written with the desired capitalization, not in all caps as I did before. In this case, you would enter {{move|Murder of Seth Rich}} (without the nowiki tags).
Doing this will add a note to the top of the page, and place it in the category: Move Requests. Hopefully, an admin or assistant SysOp (such as myself) will check the category occasionally and move any pages they agree should be. However, this may not always happen, and move requests can get lost. If this happens or you are in a hurry, fell free to directly message me! --David B (TALK) 02:36, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Thanks a lot, David, for moving/renaming the article. Maybe sometime I will learn the wiki language. (Thunkful2 (talk) 21:04, 18 August 2016 (EDT))

I'm glad to help; thank you for your work as well! It does seem there is a lot to learn about wiki editing. I certainly haven't learned it all, but I've had just a little more time to attempt it. Reading through the "Useful links" on your talk page should help you some, but you can't learn everything from there. One page I think is especially helpful is Help:How to Code. Also, if it helps, I have a slightly extended useful links box on my user page. Let me know if you have any other questions! --David B (TALK) 22:38, 18 August 2016 (EDT)

total current reward?

On Twitter (Autust 18, 2016, around 6 PM) #SethRich one reads "With the latest offer added, there's now an $85,000 reward for the person who finds #SethRich's killer." I think this is probably adding what some Twitter guy named Mike Cernovich [associated with Alex Jones Info Wars as of July, 2017] has personally added ($20K) plus WeSearchr's efforts (about $20K also) to the Wash cops & Wikileaks reward money, but I have been unable to find the offer that I think Cernovich made. I guess I am not good at searching Twitter. If anyone has the citations this would make a good addition to the article. This was a Tweet by Mike Cernovich @Cernovich. Update: I found that the WeSearchr site credits Mike Cernovich with a $20K contribution -- so I don't know how Cernovich got to the total of $85K. (Thunkful2 (talk) 18:56, 18 August 2016 (EDT))

As of August 4, 2017, I think total of rewards from various sources is about 1/2 a million$ -- but no takers. I think all of the rewards require at least "leading to arrest" for payoff. So it wud not be that easy to collect for a whistleblower, who himself wud probably be detained, suspected, & interrogated. (Thunkful2 (talk) 22:50, 4 August 2017 (EDT))

Google Not Listing This Article

A search for this article brings up the same-named WickedPedia article, but not directly this one on Conservapedia. I have found it on and (which I think are the same thing). I tried DuckDuckGo today, and it readily brought up this article. All this leads me to suspect (as I have for some time) that Google is a dangerous enterprise, tracking activity on the internet -- now apparently filtering information, tending towards having a monopoly on searching the internet.

Update: as of August 26, 2016, Google still seems to be boycotting this article on Conservapedia; even a search for "Murder of Seth Rich" does not bring up this article, except for a secondary reference on the Google article of Conservapedia. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:37, 26 August 2016 (EDT))

discussion of time period

There is this time period 1:45-4:19AM of 2 hours, 34 minutes which was considered a mystery. It has been stated that Seth said that instead of accepting a ride home, he planned to go to a near 2nd bar (Wonderland Ballroom). Apparently that bar had its closing time at 3 in the morning. But if he went there, it seems strange that there is no proof that Seth went there, for you expect security cameras at a bar. But if Seth went there, that could cut the "unaccounted" time down to 1 hour and 19 minutes max. But it appears from a Washington Post statement that Seth was on the phone with Kelsey Mulka from 2:05-approx 4:19 which call will be a matter of phone record. (There is a gap of a few minutes in this long call; actually it is two calls.) Perhaps Seth spent some time talking outside Lou's bar before he went anywhere. If there is ever proof that Seth went to Wonderland and remained there until 3 AM closing, he may have hung outside for a while chatting with persons (just speculation). But that would mean that Seth was talking to Kelsey at Wonderland Bar, though indoor cell phone reception was stated to have been a problem for Seth (by his father). He was talking with his girl friend on the phone until shortly before he was killed. If anyone finds her testimony on those calls that would make a good addition to this article. (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:21, 8 July 2017 (EDT))

As of June 8, 2017: The phone log [posted in a separate section below] reported by The Washington Post indicates that a lot of the time between leaving Lou's Bar and 4:19AM was consumed by cell phone connection, particularly between Seth and his girl friend, possibly conducted outdoors for better cell phone reception. (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:53, 9 June 2017 (EDT))

How would the cops know that 2 guys approached Rich? Skype?

Fox News reported that the police report said that 2 individuals approached Seth Rich. How the police would know that is beyond me unless they saw video from Flagler Market (4 cameras). (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:33, 21 August 2016 (EDT))

I have now seen a police report (I copied its substance below), and the report does not say 2 individuals approached Seth Rich. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:26, 31 May 2017 (EDT))
This is a partial transcript of Seth's father Joel Rich discussing the murder in a Youtube video:
"He was walking home -- because he had bad cellular reception in his house -- and she heard some voices or something. . . . She asked, 'Are you home?' He was a block away, so yeah, 'I'm home'. And he said, 'I've gotta go'; put the phone back in his pocket. And 2 minutes later he was shot. . . . if he had seen a gun at the beginning, he would not have uh risked his life. So He was just trying to defend himself, and uh then he turned and he was shot." . . . "I think she saw people by him, and he wanted to take care of himself; so he hung up the phone call and put his phone in his pocket to defend himself. It's pretty obvious . . . what he did. . . . There were people; we believe there were two that he had seen." [Emphasis by Thunkful2]"Seth Rich's Parents press Conference Nov 21, 2016," Channel upcycle, December 14, 2016, Youtube.
Does "SHE SAW" mean it was on Skype? Could be just a slip of the tongue for "he saw." (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:30, 5 June 2017 (EDT))

Ecuador embassy wall climb

A mysterious wall-climbing has been reported -- not to hastily draw conclusions from it. The question appears to be highly speculative:

New Zealand Sentinel reports:
"Did Someone Just Attempt to Assassinate Wikileaks’ Julian Assange?

Original newz story"

"Someone just got caught trying to scale a wall at the Ecuadorian embassy in London where Julian Assange, founder of Wikileaks and Hillary Clinton Enemy No. 1, has been living under political asylum for the last four years."

‪:It is also reported that @wikileaks‪‬ says on Twitter:

"19 mins ago at 2:47am an unknown man scaled the side wall+window of the Ecuadorian embassy in London; fled after being caught by security.‬ ‪9:09 PM - 21 Aug 2016" For those who are curious, I think the following site has a picture of the wall & window:
Now on August 23, 2016, there is present on the internet an RT image of Assange looking like the pope addressing a crowd from a balcony with a video discussion of this wall climbing incident, complete with a complaint that whilst the Ecuador embassy is 2 minutes from a police station, it took the police 2 hours to get there.

parked car?

There is one report I came across (which seems to be from an unreliable source) claiming that Seth was shot while parked in his car. If anyone finds proof of that, it would make a good addition, but I don't think there will be proof for that one. "It was reported that Rich was shot in the back of the head while he was parked in his car."

Pyrrhic Victory at the wickedpedia?

Our article says, "Despite the fact that the article was not deleted, several details about the murder were deleted from the article by the same editors who advocated for deletion,[35] leaving the article a rather short stub article." This reminds one of Hemingway's story.

As I recall Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea, after the old man catches his huge fish, he ties it to the side of the boat and heads for home (shore). But the sharks eat it up on the way home; so that while in a sense he succeeds in bringing it home, when he gets to shore with the fish, there is nothing left of it but the skeleton. The evident passion aroused over this story is just incredible. As of August 25, 2016, they are still going at it on the Talk Page, still trying to impede the article, perhaps not wishing to accept defeat. (Thunkful2 (talk) 18:17, 25 August 2016 (EDT))

Unsubstantiated Hy (& Lo) potheses; Unproven Claims

This section is created for listing unsubstantiated hypotheses (& unproven claims) relative to Seth Rich's death. Let us not claim who the murderer was without sufficient evidence, not wishing to bad-mouth anyone (or commit the Bible sin of judging). By no means are these ideas endorsed; they may be wild and ignorant speculation. But they might provide the researcher with hypotheses to check out and test out:

1)Alexander's CGI / Kleeb Suggestion:

"Seth Rich – July 10, 2016 "DNC staffer Seth Rich was murdered near his affluent neighborhood in Washington, D.C. Rich was shot in the back at 4:15 a.m. while he walked home from his girlfriend’s apartment. Rich previously worked on the failed U.S. Senate campaign of Nebraska businessman Scott Kleeb, whose clean-energy business had come under investigation after losing $300,000 in 2010 and another $300,000 in 2011 despite having been subsidized by the Clinton Global Initiative. "A commentary by Rachel Alexander at Townhall suggested possible corruption between the CGI and Kleeb “led to Sanders’ cronies pressuring Rich to leak what was going on.” [1]"

Comment: My reaction is that this is probably pure speculation at best. This hypothesis is discouraged by the report that Seth Rich's girlfriend was out of town. I know of no evidence that he was ever at his girlfriend's apartment that night. (Thunkful2 (talk) 18:12, 25 August 2016 (EDT))

2) On Twitter August 26, 2016, for the hashtag #Sethrich a statement is made as follows:

[Q]". . . in the case of Seth rich - there were 19 minutes in between the moment he hung up with his girlfriend ( . . . ) 19 minutes AFTER this phone call - he WAS SHOT - at 4:19 am (prob with a silencer like Vince foster ) after most likely being tortured (. . . ."[/Q]


According to the Washington Post's cell phone log, Seth hung up with Kelsey Mulka at about 4:19. ShotSpotter says he was shot at 4:19:43. So I have no idea how anyone thinks that there were 19 minutes between hangup & shooting. BTW, by saying about 4:19 for hangup, the Wash Post raises doubt on its cell phone data. I don't know from where they got it, but a cell phone hangup should be precise, not "about" if cell service records were used.
Since the WashingtonDC ShotSpotter supposedly helped the cops find the body of Seth Rich, I doubt the silencer hypothesis. Lack of a silencer might indicate a non-professional shooting, though I don't think silencers really silence -- I think they are not very good at that really (movies being fantasy) -- but in my ignorance I am thinking that a silencer might modify the sound enough to defeat the ShotSpotter. The phone records will probably tell us more. I am thinking that probably there was some time gap between the time when Seth stopped talking to his girlfriend & the time he got shot. If he turned off his phone suddenly, that also leads me to think that it is likely that he knew whoever was approaching him, not that such constitutes proof. For I would think that if Seth saw attackers coming, he would have told the girlfriend & left the phone on -- it may turn out that he did leave the phone going; just have to wait to find out. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:20, 26 August 2016 (EDT))

3) Hypothesis: Seth Rich favored Bernie Sanders partly because both of them are Jewish. Seth may have had some motivation to leak the anti-Sanders emails because of this.

[Q]Seth Rich also was Jewish and learned the DNC's plans to attack Sanders for being Jewish and an atheist. It is known Seth Rich has access to the email accounts as the divulged emails includes emails by him.
[Q]Sadly, when it was revealed the leaked emails were internal to the DNC it directly pointed at Seth Rich as he used that email account, had access to the voter registration files, was a Sanders supporter, and accordingly also living witness to massive criminal conspiracy in voter registration fraud. He HAD to be killed and quickly - and he was. [/Q]

< ]]

Comment: Thus far we have no proof of the above, nor proof that Seth was the leaker But in May, 2017, I came across an internet claim that Seth Rich had a screen name indicating support for Sanders. However, against the theory that the murder of Seth was a response to the leaks, the murder of Seth came 12 days before the leaks were released. Is it reasonable to suppose that some Democrat learned about the leaks (and connected them to Seth) so far in advance of the release of the leaks by Wikileaks? We wait for Kim Dotcom's supposed revelation(s) to come on May 23, 2017.

4) Hypothesis: Gang Initiation, which might explain why nothing was robbed. See comments section at

Comment: The statement not to worry raises a contrary hypothesis, namely that Rich knew his attackers, though "not to worry" could be that Rich just didn't want his GF to worry even though he expected an attack. The GF apparently was out of town. Perhaps he wanted to call 911, so he hung up on the GF, but was prevented from calling 911 by the attack. Of course this is speculation. (Thunkful2 (talk) 16:15, 29 August 2016 (EDT))

Gang initiation must also me considered. There is a thuggish mentality among Clinton operatives that nothing is illegal to accomplish their aims. This, after all, is what motivated the leaks to Wikileaks. It could have been simply talk around the watercooler among co-workers and IT staff that Rich wasn't a team player, or that he was a snitch, and not necessarily a hit ordered from on-high. RobSLock Up The Coup Plotters! 19:16, 21 May 2017 (EDT)
Yes, a single Democrat might have decided on his own to rub out Seth, with a very amateurish result; gun jamming on 3rd trigger pull, so no head shot. In such a case, there would be no conspiracy, since just one person. There was a fight. I am reminded of the George Zimmerman fight with Trayvon Martin. But I think this postulates that the amateur got the gun too close to Seth who knocked it out of his hand before it was retrieved. Just speculation now.(Thunkful2 (talk) 23:36, 31 May 2017 (EDT))

5) Hypothesis: Knock-out Game: Someone was playing the knock-out game, swung for Seth's temple, but Seth blocked the blow & a fight ensued. Seth may have tried to leave the scene, but got shot from the back.

Comment: If Seth were being approached by 1 or more thugs, would he have told Kelsey not to worry?

6) Hypothesis: Someone (or ones) associated with the Democrats assassinated Seth Rich because he (or they) learned that Seth had leaked information to Wikileaks.

Comment: By no means have I seen proof of this, neither grounds to rule it out. If it were one person doing a hit, that would not be a "conspiracy." Against this hypothesis would be that Seth was shot in the torso (back), but not in the head, thus not ensuring his death. However, if it be true that Seth was shot at 4:19, then shots were immediately reported by ShotSpotter to the cops, & the cops were on scene by 4:20AM; one could understand that a murderer might flee without ensuring that Seth were dead. (Were the cops at 4:19 only a block or 2 away, heard the shots directly, got the ShotSpotter report immediately, & turned on their sirens?) One still wonders that if it were a hit, why didn't the shooter go ahead & immediately put a 3rd shot into Seth's head? Did the gun jam? Stovepipe misfeed -- but why haven't we seen the police report on the ballistics, semi-automatic pistol or revolver? -- In favor of this hypothesis would be that Seth told his girl friend on the phone "not to worry" & hung up; this suggests that Seth knew the person(s) approaching him. If it had been muggers approaching, you would think he would have told his girl friend & left his cell phone on. Of course it is possible that he abruptly hung up, intending to call 911, but did not have time. (Thunkful2 (talk) 16:03, 21 May 2017 (EDT))

If the gunman were paid or instructed, that would be conspiracy. A second party need not be present. The gunman had to act on his own volition not to be a conspiracy. Secondly, about a 3rd shot "to finish the job," so to speak. Even if it were a professional, paid hit, there's no assurance of quality. It could have been a gunman's first job acting alone, and inexperience and nervousness would have to be considered a factor. RobSLock Up The Coup Plotters! 19:04, 21 May 2017 (EDT)
Human beings can be unpredictable in emotional situations and when sinning greatly as in murder, so I don't rule out the hit hypothesis altogether. But it is worth noting that it would have taken a shooter 1 more second to finish the job with a head shot. Just as it would have taken a robber 1 more second to grab a gold chain! However, if you just shot someone you never wanted to shoot, you might not want the cops to catch you with something stolen from the victim. (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:29, 3 August 2017 (EDT))

7) Seth Rich was assassinated by the Russians because Rich had discovered their hack.

Comment: I don't think the Russians would have worried much about a report that they hacked the DNC, since it is widely thought that many nations routinely hack each other, like our CIA. I don't think that a person in Russia is required to obey American laws while in Russia. & if a Russia government agent hacked into some USA computer from Russia, I can't see that said Russian broke a law or that Russia would dream of extraditing such a person to the USA. Neither can I see any benefit to Russia for killing Seth Rich after he reported their supposed hack. So IMHO this is nonsense.

I think this hypothesis was put for by anti-Trump Republican lobbyist Jack Burkman. For this hypothesis you may consult "Tracy Beanz" on YouTube, who has a valuable presentation of the Seth Rich story. Also see YouTube FFRnews where there are 3 videos in a series, the 3rd having the Burkman hypothesis.
In July, 2017, Jack Burkman came out with the theory that Seth Rich took his DNC downloaded emails and transferred them to Natalia Veselnitskaya, Russian lawyer, who to me seems very likely working for the Russian government. So Burkman eventually combined the Seth Rich Leak theory with the Russians-Done-It theory. IMHO this would make a terrific novel or movie, but is really off the wall. Natalia Veselnitskaya is the same (fem fatal? Mata Hari?) with whom Donald Trump, Jr., had a brief meeting, for which the MSM / liberals would like to crucify him & his father. (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:29, 3 August 2017 (EDT))


"Sources say that Seth Rich was possibly helping Assange, but that he was also the key witness in a case filed against Edison Media Research exposing the discrepancies between actual voter results and exit polls. Seth was going to expose the DNC’s plans to rig the polls, and he was subsequently executed for it. No source will go on the record but this case holds actual merit."

Comment: I do not know the motives of whosever shot Seth Rich. It is a plausible (but hardly proven) motive that someone(s) in the DNC wanted some actions by him to cease. (Thunkful2 (talk) 11:35, 27 June 2017 (EDT))

"Claudia Kash" Alleged Girl FriendVariant on the above:

Comment: I know of no reliable source that recognizes that Seth Rich ever had a girlfriend named Claudia Kash. His girl friend was Kelsey Mulka. I regard the Claudia Kash claim as a probably hoax. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:46, 27 June 2017 (EDT))

Tangential info; matters which may prove to be significant if not yet

Megan Kelly inteviewed Julian Assange airing the part about Seth Rich on August 25, 2016. This interview added little or nothing to the Dutch TV interview earlier, but Assange seemed to say that he had additional information to give to the police:

[Q]“We're not saying that Seth Rich's death necessarily is connected to our publications – that's something that needs to be established,” said Assange. “But if there is any question about a source of WikiLeaks being threatened, then people can be assured that this organization will go after anyone who may have been involved in some kind of attempt to coerce or possibly, in this kill a potential source.”
[Q]When Kelly asked him if he has any suspicions on who may have murdered Rich, Assange responded, “We have received a variety of information. We will be forwarding that information to the police. I don't think the information so far is enough to start pointing a direct finger. We don't want to compromise the police investigation.”[/Q]


Potential Sources of New Info

1) police records: autopsy, cell phone
2) Kelsey Mulka's testimony,
3) Cell phone records of Seth Rich & of Kelsey Mulka,
4) Wash DC police & their "portavoz," Alice Kim,
5) Security camera videos from Lou's Bar & Wonderland Ballroom,
6) Any cameras on the walk route which Seth Rich took,
7) DC police report(s),
8) FBI report(s) if any,
9) Congressional investigation if any,
10) DNC members' testimony, including testimony that Seth Rich was or was not a supporter of Bernie Sanders.
11) Neighborhood cameras which might show gang members out on the street and their movements or suspicious persons;


12) Seth Rich's computer has been reported as showing contact between him and Wikileaks or a Wikileak intermediary. Report indicates that the location of that computer is unknown with probable choices being the Wash DC Police & the FBI. However, perhaps the family got teh computer back and it is in their hands or that of Brad Bauman (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:13, 18 May 2017 (EDT))
13) For some strange reason no videos have apparently been published, tho reportedly there were several security cameras in the neighborhood, & the cops who arrived at 4:20 AM had body cams.
14) Why have we not gotten any data from the hospital where they treated Seth Rich?
15) A report allegedly by a doctor or intern at that hospital has appeared claiming that Rich's injuries were not that severe & that he could have survived, but access to Rich was restricted in the Hospital. Hospital & doctor testimony should be available.
16) Kim Dotcom apparenty claims (May, 2017) that he was involved with Seth Rich and the transfer of data to Wikileaks. He is supposed to release more data on May 23, 2017.
17) The FBI's new Special Counselor to investigate the Russia Conspiracy theory may investigate also the Seth Rich murder as an alternative to the Russia theory.
18) Since somebody out there must know who killed Seth Rich and why, info might come to light if an huge reward were offered, like $10million -- but thus far only something in the range $200K - $300K has been offered apparently.
19 Attorney General's office (Jeff Sessions) could subpoena artifacts and people to testify before a Grand Jury (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:48, 21 May 2017 (EDT))
20 Seth's computer (now with family per Bauman, with his brother Aaron?
21 ShotSpotter recording(s). Does Shotspotter record all audio in vicinity all the time? Audio might be analyzed for actual round fired (e.g. Winchester Protector .45), gun (e.g., Colt 1911 government model), cartridges ejected (or none, suggesting revolver)


Can someone work up a thumbnail summary for the Bias in Wikipedia page? Thanks.RobS#NeverHillary 14:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

Date of death

This source puts the date on the 8th, not the 10th. [2] RobSCIA v Trump updated score:CIA 3, Trump 2 03:53, 9 April 2017 (EDT)

Editing Changes, What Needs editing

1) Near the end of the article there is this word string, "Rich's family and the D.C. police denied to reports." This word string is not a sentence; it is ungrammatical. Obtuse Sentence, product of typos? (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:09, 18 May 2017 (EDT))

2) Opening sentence said fatally shot. I removed the word fatally. I think he was fatally shot, but have no proof of it. There are reports that his wounds did not appear fatal, and that his death was unexpected. I don't believe that someone killed SR in the ER, but I think we have to allow for that unlikely possibility until there is proof to the contrary. (Thunkful2 (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2017 (EDT))


I will see if I can post an image from Twitter of an edited Reddit timeline below:






Seth's father recounts: "The officers who were there and they said 'Yeah, he was quite talkative, he did not realize he had been shot.'"

#SethRich COMPLETE TIMELINE - All the facts in one place (self.The_Donald) submitted an hour ago * by spinometer Facts

Jan 3, 1989 Seth Conrad Rich born to parents Joel and Mary Rich in Omaha, Nebraska. Seth was 27 at time of death.

• "Seth Rich seemed to be friends with everybody, but he would stand up to anybody for what's right." (source)
• "Seth slept with an American flag over his bed." (source)
• "Everyone seems to agree on Seth's fighting spirit" (source)
• "He's kind of known as a goofball, but to me it was very clear to me that there was so much more. It didn't matter who you were, where you came from or where you were going. If he thought you were in trouble, he wanted to help. If you were sad he was going to make you happy, he was going to make you laugh." (source)
• "He was a great guy, personable, always there to kind of brighten up your day, even though that was our job as bartenders, just to make the customers happy. Seth would see if we're not happy, he would just like try to cheer us up a little bit." (source)
• "All my life I wanted to be in a position that I can make a difference" (source)
• "Rich was known for his elaborate outfits. On the Fourth of July, he had dress head to toe in clothes covered with an American flag pattern." (source)
• "When he was stuck late at night working in the office, he would dress up as a panda to make his co-workers laugh." (source)

Sun, Feb 22, 2015 • John Podesta writes, "I'm definitely for making an example of a suspected leaker whether or not we have any real basis for it." This quote reveals John's general mindset when it comes to leakers; clearly he cannot know that more than a year from now he will be dealing with some of the most damaging leaks in the history of politics.

May 23, 2016 Source:

• 12:15pm EDT Huma Shah makes appointment for Jennifer Palmieri (Director of Communications for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign) to meet Katherine Branch (Director of Special Projects and Events Special Assistant to Valerie Jarrett) in the West Wing.
• 12:28pm EDT Jennifer Palmieri arrives to the West Wing.
• 1:39pm EDT Jennifer Palmieri leaves.

Wed, May 25, 2016

• Last date of emails in Wikileaks dump of DNC emails, which will happen on July 22.
• Mayor of Boston issues press release that Andrew Therriault is leaving his position as Director of Data Science for the Democratic National Convention and joining the Boston city government as Chief Data Officer.

June 2016 • Andrew Therriault moves to Boston from DC to begin new job.

June 21, 2016 Source: • 7:21pm EDT Crystal Carson makes appointment for Jennifer Palmieri to meet Jen Psaki in the "upper pres" of the White House.

June 22, 2016 Source: • 12:33pm EDT Jennifer Palmieri arrives to the White House to meet Jen Psaki. • 2:28pm EDT Jennifer Palmieri leaves.

Sun, July 10, 2016

• Note that by this date, Wikileaks has not leaked any emails having to do with the 2016 election, and has been largely out of the news. Wikileaks does not become a big player in the election until it releases the DNC emails on July 22, twelve days from now.
• 4:20am Officers report beginning of incident with Seth Conrad Rich.
• 5:57am Seth pronounced dead by unknown physician at unknown hospital.
• 7:10am Police report filed (CCN #16113797): CIC reports the sound of gunshots at 2134 Flagler Pl. NW. Upon arriving to the scene, the decedent was laying in the Southwest corder of the intersection of W St. and Flagler Pl. NW. The decedent was conscious and breathing with apparent gunshot wound(s) to the back. The decedent was transported to local area hospital and was pronounced by attending physician at 0557 hours.
Responding office listed as: Jody O'Leary (#7859). Assisting officers listed as: ROBERT WINGATE ROBINSON (#7634)(Body Worn Camera),Derek Tarr (#9237)(Other Officers At Scene),Shea Ellis (#9499)(Other Officers At Scene),Benjamin Velez (#6631)(Body Worn Camera),Mark Lee (#6141)(Body Worn Camera).
• Seth's parents recount: "Seth was walking home, talking to his girlfriend on his cellphone. He was about a block from his place when his girlfriend heard voices or something in the background. Seth said he had to go. Two minutes later, he was shot."
• Seth's father recounts: "The officers who were there and they said 'Yeah, he was quite talkative, he did not realize he had been shot.'"
• Seth's girlfriend of two years, Kelsey Mulka, recounts: "We were on the phone just wrapping up our conversation, he had kind of told me that he was getting close to his house."

"• D.C. Police Captain Anthony Haythe states: "It appears he was targeted. He was shot multiple times"

• Investigators go on record to confirm: Seth still had his wallet, watch and phone when he was discovered shot in the street.

Mon, July 11, 2016

• Rafael Aguilar and Carmelo Marmolejo-Calixto are found dead in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, with "gunshot wounds to vital organs", 434 miles from where Seth was shot 24 hours earlier, a 7 hour drive.
• From the article: "On Monday, one of the deceased men was found lying face down on the ground next to a gold Chevrolet Astro van that had tinted windows with the windshield wipers still moving. The other victim was slumped over in the passenger seat of the van." Van has South Carolina license plate LGL 344.
• Note that an anti-gun-violence website that shows Rafael Aguilar's occupation as "Clinton 2016 campaign aid" allows anyone to freely tag victims with occupations; "Clinton 2016 campaign aid" was likely added as a joke.

Tue, July 12, 2016 Hillary Clinton uses Seth's murder to advocate in a campaign speech for stricter gun control.

Wed, July 13, 2016 More than 100 people attend vigil held in front of Seth's home in D.C.

• DNC chairwoman, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, attended and stated: "Seth's life was not lived in vain. Seth Rich lived his life fully every single day for 27 years. Each of us at the DNC were absolutely privileged to work with him, to fight side by side with him every single day."

Fri, July 22, 2016

• 10:30am EDT WikiLeaks releases DNC email database with 44,053 emails and 17,761 attachments, in two tranches, covering period from January 2015 to May 25, 2016.
• 5:25pm EDT Donna Coleman makes appointment for Andrew M. Therriault and Christopher M. Dwelley to visit Kelly Jin at White House on August 1, 2016.

Wed, July 26, 2016 Police in Myrtle Beach, SC, ask for help solving murders of Rafael Aguilar and Carmelo Marmolejo-Calixto.

Fri, July 28, 2016

• 8pm EDT Paul Tyrone Dorn, Demetrius Brandon, and Stanley Marquis Williams are arrested for an attempted armed robbery nine blocks from where Seth was shot.

Mon, Aug 1, 2016 Source:

• 9:30am EDT Donna Coleman makes appointment for Kamau Bobb and family to visit Quincy Brown in room 491 of "OEOB" today.
• 10:16am EDT Donna Coleman makes appointment for Alfred J. Cornelius to visit Rich Pouyat in room 474 of "OEOB" today.
• 10:17am EDT Andrew M. Therriault and Christopher M. Dwelley arrive to White House to meet Kelly Jin in room 442 of "OEOB".
• 10:37am EDT Alfred arrives to White House.
• 10:43am EDT Bobb family arrives to White House.
• 11:40am EDT Andrew and Christopher leave.
• 11:51am EDT Bobb family leaves.
• 5:48pm EDT Alfred leaves.

Fri, Aug 5, 2016 D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier states: "Right now, we have more questions than answers."

Tue, Aug 9, 2016

• Julian Assange hints in a Dutch television interview that Seth Rich is Wikileaks' source for the DNC emails.
• The same day, Wikileaks offers a $20,000 reward for information leading to a conviction in Seth's killing.

Tue, Aug 16, 2016 D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier announces she is stepping down to become head of security for the NFL.

Sat, Aug 20, 2016 Newsweek publishes story on Seth Rich. From the article:

• "Police have declined to say whether he was able to describe his assailants."
• "They found his wallet, credit cards and cellphone on his body. The band of his wristwatch was torn but not broken."

Sep 17, 2016 D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier's last day of work.

Sep 30, 2016

• Seth's parents (Joel and Mary Rich), girlfriend (Kelsey Mulka), best friend (Michael Cass-Antony), and others (Joseph Capone) who knew Seth go on record to defend Seth against rumors that he is the DNC email leaker, giving exclusive interviews to Crime Watch Daily.
• Michael Cass-Antony, reported to be Seth's best friend, equates being good with caring for the DNC: "All those lies that are being bandied about in the news are just that, and the reason that nobody close to him has refuted them is because there's no reason to, because he spoke for himself. Because anybody who knows him knows how good of a person he was, knows how much he cared for the DNC and for where he worked and how much he believed in his cause."
• Seth's parents state: "He had just found out he was going to go to work for the Clinton campaign doing data analysis and helping getting people out to vote," and that he had just started to draft a "letter of acceptance", but had only managed to write two sentences, one of which was: "All my life I wanted to be in a position that I can make a difference." Who writes acceptance letters to job offers???
You write a letter if you've got more to say than just a simple acceptance.
• Joseph Capone, general manager of Lou's City Bar, states: "I heard there was a bunch of robberies lately by a man with a silver gun in the area. He was here just by himself that night, and even asked him if he wanted to stick around and get a ride home. He was like 'No, I'm going to go somewhere else and then I'll go home.'"

Nov 23, 2016 Parents Joel and Mary Rich appear at press conference with Republican lobbyist Jack Burkman to offer $125,000 reward.

Wed, Dec 14, 2016

• Craig Murray of Wikileaks claims to have met a disgruntled DNC staffer in September who gave him emails. These could only have been the Podesta emails, released on October 7, 2016, not the DNC emails, which were released July 22.

Feb 20, 2017

• Jack Burkman appeals to Congress to investigate Seth's death under the theory that it might have been the Russians trying to disrupt the voter registration project Seth was working on for the DNC.

Thu, Mar 23, 2017

Jack Burkman launches independent investigation into Seth's murder, in which Seth's family take no part. From the article:
• Kevin Doherty, a security expert on the team, says: "We are going to look at link analysis. We are going to try and establish a timeline. We are going to see if there were individuals who may have been missed."
• The team includes a forensic physiologist, a security specialist and George Washington grad students, and are operating out of the new Seth Rich Center for Investigations in Arlington, Virginia.
• Burkman claims a former U.S. Intelligence Officer told him the Russian's had something to do with Rich's murder.
• Launched website

Apr 27, 2017

Andrew Therriault's tweets at Seth's Twitter account @panda4progress: A group of Pandas is called an "Embarassment".

• As of May 20, tweet has been deleted.

May 15, 2017

Fox News reports that Rod Wheeler, a private investigator, says there is evidence that Seth had contact with Wikileaks. From the article:
• Wheeler states: "The police department nor the FBI have been forthcoming. They haven't been cooperating at all. I believe that the answer to solving his death lies on that computer, which I believe is either at the police department or either at the FBI. I have been told both."
• Asked if his sources have told him there is information that links Seth to Wikileaks, Wheeler stated: "Absolutely. Yeah. That's confirmed."
• Wheeler also said: "I have a source inside the police department that has looked at me straight in the eye and said, 'Rod, we were told to stand down on this case and I can't share any information with you.' Now, that is highly unusual for a murder investigation, especially from a police department. Again, I don't think it comes from the chief's office, but I do believe there is a correlation between the mayor's office and the DNC and that is the information that will come out."
• Seth's family distanced itself from Rod Wheeler: "The private investigator who spoke to press was offered to the Rich family and paid for by a third party, and contractually was barred from speaking to press or anyone outside of law enforcement or the family unless explicitly authorized by the family."

May 16, 2017

The Gateway Pundit claims the footage from the body cameras worn by three of the police officers responding to Seth's shooting is missing.

May 17, 2017

Fox News modifies it's May 15 article to note that Rod Wheeler has become wishy-washy about his previous on-camera claims that he communicated with the FBI regarding Wikileaks and Seth Rich.
• Brad Bauman, the spokesman [SIC? DEMO PR/HANDER?] for Seth's family, and a professional Democrat crisis PR consultant, released this statement:
"This is the statement from the Rich family re: today?s little fake news story. As we?ve seen through the past year of unsubstantiated claims, we see no facts, we have seen no evidence, we have been approached with no emails and only learned about this when contacted by the press. Even if tomorrow, an email was found, it is not a high enough bar of evidence to prove any interactions as emails can be altered and we?ve seen that those interested in pushing conspiracies [DEMOCRAT TALKING PROPAGANDA POINT "CONSPIRACY"] will stop at nothing to do so. We are a family who is committed to facts, not fake evidence that surfaces every few months to fill the void and distract law enforcement and the general public from finding Seth?s murderers. The services of the private investigator who spoke to press was offered to the Rich family and paid for by a third party, and contractually was barred from speaking to press or anyone outside of law enforcement or the family unless explicitly authorized by the family."

Thu, May 18, 2017

• Kim Dotcom tweets list of security cameras in area of murder.
• Andrew Therriault's April 27 tweet @panda4progress is uncovered by online sleuths. Andrew deletes the tweet within hours.
• Seth's social media accounts discovered and archived: pandas4bernie (Facebook, Reddit comments and posts, Tumblr), MeGrimLock4 (Reddit comments and posts), panda4progress (Twitter and tweets). His online persona reveals that he was a supporter of Bernie Sanders

Sat, May 20, 2017

• Relevant pol threads:,
• Kim Dotcom states: "I knew Seth Rich. I know he was the @Wikileaks source. I was involved. I'm meeting my legal team on Monday. I will issue a statement about #SethRich on Tuesday. Please be patient. This needs to be done properly."
• Reddit admins begin to edit Seth's comments and posts.
Further reading
• Russia wiretapping hypothesis timeline


I deleted the opening reference to Podesta emails leaks published, since they occurred after SR's death

The source given did not support the contention posted that connected Seth Rich to the Podesta emails leaked & put forth by Wikileaks. The issue with Seth Rich is his possible connection with a leak of the DNC emails, a different Wikileaks publication. We really must be careful as to our facts. Someone coming here & reading this article could dismiss it as obscurantist nonsense if we get such an elementary fact wrong in the lead of the article. (Thunkful2 (talk) 20:37, 21 May 2017 (EDT))

Gavin MacFadyen & Craig Murray & Kim DotCom

In studying the possible connection of Seth Rich with Wikileaks, the names of Gavin MacFadyen, Craig Murray, and Kim Dotcom come up as potential intermediaries between Rich & Wikileaks. Kim Dotcom was supposed to be making some announcement from New Zealand on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 (which may likely be May 22, Monday in the USA due to the time differential). But IMHO Dotcom added nothing of substance to his earlier statement on that Tuesday. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:37, 28 May 2017 (EDT))

Statement by Kim Dotcom:

[Q]“I knew Seth Rich. I know he was the @Wikileaks source. I was involved. I’m meeting my legal team on Monday. I will issue a statement about #SethRich on Tuesday. Please be patient. This needs to be done properly.”[/Q]
Unfortunately, as of July, 2017, Kim Dotcom has apparently never come forth with any proof to confirm his claims, though he presents as a primary witness. For some reason apparently he has held up further testimony until the USA allows him to travel to USA to testify without danger of arrest. (Thunkful2 (talk) 11:45, 30 July 2017 (EDT))

WND Article depending of Fox5 (Fox5DC) report:


"WND CRIME Everything you want to know about Seth Rich story Murdered DNC staffer reportedly sent 40,000 internal emails to WikiLeaks" Published: 05/15/2017 at 11:25 PM. Updated: 05/24/2017 at 3:15 PM [Q/]

A federal investigator who reviewed an FBI forensic report detailing the contents of Rich’s computer generated within 96 hours after his murder told Fox News that Rich made contact with WikiLeaks through Gavin MacFadyen, a now-deceased American investigative reporter, documentary filmmaker and director of WikiLeaks who was living in London at the time.
MacFadyen, an early mentor and defender of the founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, died of lung cancer in October 2016.
The investigator, who requested anonymity, said 44,053 emails and 17,761 attachments between DNC leaders, spanning from January 2015 through late May 2016, were transferred from Rich to MacFadyen before May 21.

Seth Rich Web accounts Skype, Twitter, email accounts, etc.

For Seth Rich's twitter accounts and/or email addys see :,,
Twitter accounts
@Panda4Progress & @Pandas4Bernie now inactive. (Thunkful2 (talk) 01:57, 23 May 2017 (EDT))

Skype, panda4progress gmail,, pandapolitics, sethrich4

Timeline Events & Sources

The time at the shooting is extremely precisely established 04:18:43. The end of the cell phone should be recorded by the cell phone service, and the time of shooting from ShotSpotter. [See Section Below on Cell phone data.] The time frame seems very short: approx. 4:19 hang up, 4:19 fight, 4:19 shooting; 4:20 police arrive. Less than 7 minute ambulance ride to hospital. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:17, 9 June 2017 (EDT))

A number of places on the internet have timelines for Seth Rich: (reposted on this page above)

Internet quote from DC Police Union:

"The Latest from the DC Police Union
"DC Crime Summary - July 8th - 15th [2016]"
"There were two homicides and several other violent crimes this week in the District, including two incidents on Tuesday in which suspects fired on DC police officers.
• [On July 12, 2016]
Keyante Edwards, 19, was charged with shooting at DC Police Thursday, as authorities pursued him in a high speed car chase. Alpha Jalloh, 18, and Keith Jones, 20, were also in the vehicle and charged in connection with the incident.
• Luvell Alverson, 22, is in custody after taking five people hostage and then opening fire at officers, provoking a gun battle that left bullet holes in the windows of MLK elementary school near 6th Street and Alabama Avenue SE.
• DNC staffer Seth Conrad Rich, 27, died early Sunday morning after he was shot multiple times near LeDroit Park. Early reports indicate that there was a struggle before the victim was shot and killed.
• After Alan Smith, 50, was stabbed and killed in the Garfield Heights neighborhood, Lakisha Young, 42, was arrested in connection with the homicide.
• Transgender woman Deeniqua Dodds, 22, died Wednesday from injuries she sustained in a July 4th shooting in the Capitol View neighborhood. No suspect information is available at this time, and authorities are investigating the incident as a homicide." <
[I edited the quote by adding emphasis, indentation, & spacing; all the paragraphs are one quote -- BTW, I know of no evidence whatsoever that Keyante Edwards, Alpha Jalloh, or Keith Jones had anything to do whatsoever with the Murder of Seth Rich.]

(Thunkful2 (talk) 13:45, 30 May 2017 (EDT))
This was posted in the Comments section below the video:
• 2016-04-18: Death of John Jones - Pushed in front of Train
• 2016-05-11: Death of Michael Ratner - Dies of Cancer 
• 2016-05-12: WSJ reveals Clinton charity giving millions to Scott Kleeb (SR's former employer)
• 2016-06-12: Assange interview promising more Hillary leaks - "More to come"
• 2016-06-18: Guccifer leak of DNC donors
• 2016-06-22: John Ashe dies (barbell accident) the day before he's set to testify again Hillary
• 2016-06-26: Creighton Grad Simone Sanders quits as Bernie's National Press Secretary
• 2016-06-28: Suit filed by Shaun Lucas 
• 2016-07-01: Shaun Lucas serves the DNC
• 2016-07-02: Hillary meets with FBI to answer questions about private email server.
• 2016-07-05: Seth Rich hears he will join Hillary's Campaign and go to Brooklyn? James Comey says Hillary was careless in handling of email.
• 2016-07-06: AG Loretta Lynch says Clinton won't be charged.
• 2016-07-07: State Department reopens email server investigation 
• 2016-07-10: Seth Rich murdered in the early hours of the morning
• 2016-07-12:  Sanders caves and endorses Hillary
• 2016-07-22: Wikileaks publishes 19,252 emails and 8,034 attachments from the DNC 
• 2016-07-23: DN Convention begins in Philadelphia
• 2016-07-25: DNC convention (until the 28th) 
• 2016-07-25: Joe Montano (former head of DNC) Dies of heart attack
• 2016-07-26: Debbie Wasserman-Schultz Resigns
• 2016-07-28: FBI starts investigation intoTrump  links to Russia and to Russian 'hackers'
• 2016-07-28: Class Action Suit is filed by Shawn Lucas
• 2016-07-29: Court filing shows that FBI turned over "thousands of documents" to State Dept as part of the email investigation. 
• 2016-07-30: Clinton goes on Fox and brags that Comey believes her to be "truthful" 
• 2016-08-02: Death of Shawn Lucas 
• 2016-08-02: Heads Roll at DNC as 3 staff are fired
• 2016-08-09: Wikileaks offers $20K reward for SR killer and Assange hints at DNC connection to killer in TV Interview.
• 2016-08-20:  Assange implies Seth Rich was source
• 2016-08-30: Assange/Pilger interview
• 2016-09-??:  Craig Murray says he received a "clandestine handoff" Wash DC
• 2016-09-17: Eric Braverman (Clinton Foundation CEO) goes Missing!
• 2016-10-07: Pamela Anderson Brings Assange a Sandwich
• 2016-10-07: Wikileaks publishes podesta emails 
• 2016-10-22: Death of Gavin Macfayden
• 2016-11-01:  Shawn Lucas cause of death released

I have seen timelines published on Twitter in photo form (.jpg), but I don't know anyway to copy & paste them. One could copy them by hand, type them up in a word processor & paste them here. (Thunkful2 (talk) 14:04, 30 May 2017 (EDT))

Post a link here and I'll upload. We'll have something to begin working with. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 14:17, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

The hospital to which Seth Rich was taken after shot

I saw the allegation that a Dr. Sava or Ateljevich treated Seth Rich at the hospital after Seth was shot. I have no idea if this is true. There does appear to be a video related on YouTube.

Some guy on Twitter claims Sava's real name is "Dr. Jack Ateljevich." (Thunkful2 (talk) 18:45, 18 June 2017 (EDT))
Could the doctor have been Jack Sava of MedStar Washington Hospital?
WND reports on the OANN story:
". . . his attending physician.
"That physician, OANN reports, was Dr. Jack Sava, a donor to Hillary Clinton’s campaign, who visited the White House six times before the day of Seth Rich’s murder. His wife reportedly visited the White House 23 times during that same time period. They both reportedly visited the East Wing, reserved for then-first lady Michelle Obama and her staff.", "WND Exclusive: TV news network boosts Seth Rich reward" (May 29, 2017)
I have to ask why we are having to search & chisel for answers on Seth Rich now almost a year after his murder? Why haven't the cops answered these questions already? (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:43, 23 May 2017 (EDT))
One might almost get the idea they don't want us to find answers.... --David B (TALK) 20:28, 27 May 2017 (EDT)
Seth Rich's mother stated in a video of her that her son was alive and talking after the cops found him post-shooting. What happened to him at the hospital is important. It appears that persons working at that hospital had connections to Democrat leadership; Washington DC appears to be a Democrat stronghold with Democrat tentacles reaching out over DC like an octopus. But IMHO giving publicity to weird conspiracy theories about what happened at the Hospital (as if Seth was murdered at the hospital) discredits the serious investigation of the Murder and Leaks. But the fact is that the evidence indicates that the murder did come to completion at the hospital. (Thunkful2 (talk) 14:10, 30 May 2017 (EDT))
I agree completely (we can collect those prices of evidence on Talk). IMO, focus should be on, Where is his computer? and Where and what size are the bullets that killed him?. Additionally, How was his computer procured from his place of residence, if it was not in his possession at time of death? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:40, 30 May 2017 (EDT)

Evidence that Seth Rich was the leak source for the Wikileaks of DNC emails

The evidence supporting Seth Rich as the source for Wikileaks of whichI am aware of comes from

Assange, who pointed towards Seth Rich as Wikileaks source (without direct verbalization);
Robin Young's emails with Guccifer 2.0;
Rod Wheeler's anonymous FBI source(s) reported on Fox News;
Kim Dotcom's claims;
British ambassador Craig Murray who claims to have been an intermediary;
A "federal anonymous source" was reported by Fox News as having told Fox News that Rich had contacted Wikileaks through Gavin MacFayden (now dead). (Thunkful2 (talk) 20:00, 27 May 2017 (EDT))
It is not necessary to assume that if Seth Rich were the leaker he delivered all the emails in one group at the same time on the same day. It does appear that no leaked DNC email was dated after the Murder of Seth Rich. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:35, 28 May 2017 (EDT))
Julian Assange says right here that Seth Rich is WikiLeaks source. He resists the interviewers efforts to assign motive to anyone. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:26, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
That link goes to the Dutch interview, which is written out in the article (relevant parts). At no point in the interview does Assange directly state that Seth Rich was the source unless you count the slight nodding he does at one point, though Assange comes close. Anyone who wishes can go and read the transcript in this article. (Thunkful2 (talk) 21:41, 3 June 2017 (EDT))
He does so right here: "Whistleblowers go to significant efforts to get us material and often very significant risks. As a 27-year-old, works for the DNC, was shot in the back...", then he is interrupted by the interviewer who draws him off on another question, but returns to his point and names the 27 year old whistleblower by name, "Seth Rich". RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 14:20, 4 June 2017 (EDT)


First of all we are being warned against fraud stories trying to discredit and further tarnish peddlers of Seth's death, Psyc-Ops in actions. Anonymous pulls the girlfriend into the equation. [3]

Problem with the internet information is that it is mixed with nonsense and fancy. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:02, 28 May 2017 (EDT))


Kelsey was interviewed and shown on Crime Watch Daily. She said, "We were on the phone, kind of just wrapping up our conversation. He had kind of told me that he was getting close to his house." "I wasn't alarmed, no." (shorter worse quality upload on Youtube ) Crime Watch Daily with Chris Hansen. Michelle Sigona, "Exclusive: Murdered DNC staffer's family, friends set record straight" Sept 30, 2016.
Video also interviews "Seth's best friend michael Cass-Antony," who adds evidence to a die-hard Democrat atmosphere around Seth Rich, which explains to me why the family obstructs our investigations.
Crime Watch gives hang up time as 2 minutes before Seth was shot, which indicates hang up at 4:17 -- no source was given by Crime Watch for that time. Wash Post says about 4:19. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:44, 29 June 2017 (EDT))
"Claudia Kash": There is a supposed statement by an alleged girl friend with the name Claudia Kash circulating around. I think it tries to attribute the motive for antipathy in the DNC vs Seth Rich by his alleged discovery of two voting place lists, as a way of helping Hillary in the primaries. However, I know of no reliable source that any Claudia Kash was Seth's girlfriend. I think the Claudia Kash thing is probably a hoax. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:55, 29 June 2017 (EDT))

There is a report being circulated on Twitter that Kelsey Mulka & Seth Rich had broken up the romance some weeks before the murder. Howver, if that is the case, it does not prove that the romance had no rekindled in July -- It may have been on again, off again. We don't know. It could be that on the night of Jul 9-10, 2:05-4:19, Seth was trying desperately to get Kelsey back. It was a very long phone conversation, with a break in the middle of only a few minutes. It has been reported that Seth had poor cell phone service indoors. Thus he may have stayed outside a long time to maintain his calls. It is a possible explanation that he was so desperately trying to get Kelsey back that he gave no heed to the danger of being outside. But this is speculation. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:17, 6 July 2017 (EDT))

Matt Couch (RealMattCouch on Twitter) has been posting derogatory posts about Kelsey Mulka, & I have no confidence in anything he says. He makes claims, but won't reveal sources; so I guess Matt thinks we shud believe him just because he says it. I think Couch is one of those who have put forth a supposed transcript of the final cell phone conversation for Kelsey and Seth Rich. The implication in the transcript is that Kelsey betrayed Seth Rich. The entire transcript looks like a stupid & vicious hoax to me. I would like to know what the origin of that transcript is. I saw the transcript both on Twitter and YouTube. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:37, 18 August 2017 (EDT))

Murder weapon

What was the murder weapon. Found this interesting link, 2 hrs prior to the murder. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 17:03, 28 May 2017 (EDT)

I don't know any significant evidence to link this stolen .40 caliber handgun with the shooting of Seth Rich. It would be nice if the cops would give us the ballistics report (was there a .40 caliber slug in Seth Rich?) (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:32, 28 May 2017 (EDT))
Revolver was murder weapon? This Profiling Project report sponsored by Jack Burkman came out giving what IMHO are illogical conclusions. The report concludes from an absence of shell casings (or from the lack of a report of shell casings found) at the crime scene, that the murder(s) sanitized the crime scene. And from that the argument is that it was a hired killer or a serial murderer. This is Alice in Wonderland reasoning. 1) I have never seen any DC cop report about the condition of the crime scene, whether or not shell casings were found, but Joel Rich does give some window into what the cops told him, and I think he reported that there were no shell casings. 2) If no shell casings were found, that could be explained as a) casings went down a storm sewer, b) a revolver was used, c) a 2 barrel derringer was used (revolvers & derringers don't leave casings; casings stay in the gun). BTW, derringer seems quite unlikely due to not common & not regarded as very lethal. 3) Seth was shot at 4:19:43 per ShotSpotter. Cops were on scene by 4:20 per police report. There was little time to do any sanitizing. There is no cop report of having seen any shooters running away, nor any account of chasing them. So there was little time to sanitize. BTW, if it was a hit, it sure looks amateur to me, in that Seth was left alive & talking, w/ risk to shooters of him identifying them. So IMHO, the Profiling Project is a fiasco. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:20, 6 July 2017 (EDT))
Semi-auto pistol was murder weapon? Reports indicate that a high majority of shootings are done by semi-auto pistols, not revolvers, tho a substantial minority is by revolvers. Generally a 9mm, .40 cal, or .45ACP bullet wud favor semi-automatic gun. A 38 Special or .357 magnum would favor revolver. Revolvers are very unlikely to jam. Semi-autos are famous for jamming. So if a semi-auto were used that could explain why no 3rd head shot to finish the job. If indeed there were no shell casings left, that favors revolver and then takes away the explanation of why no 3rd head shot. (Thunkful2 (talk) 11:09, 29 June 2017 (EDT))

The DC Metropolitan Police reports & Obstruction of the Investigation

Briefly I had access to what looks like a photocopy of the Metropolitan police report. It was put on Twitter #SethRich. Here it is on a different internet site: Below is data I typed out from that police report (dashes -- added by me):

CCN #16113797 -- Public Incident Report
Event Start Time 04:20 -- Weather Clear
Responding Officer Jody O'Leary #7859 (Body Worn Camera) - MPD
Assisting Officer Robert Wingate Robinson #7634 (Body Worn Camera)
Derek Tarr #9237
Other Officers at scene
Shea Ellis #9499
Behjamin Valez #6631 (Body Worn Camera)
Mark Lee #6141 (Body Worn Camera)
Shots fired Yes -- Shots Effect Yes
Reporting Person CIC Shotspotter
Offence #1 - 16113797 Murder 1 (22DC2101-Y)
Location 2134 Flager Place NW, Washington DC 20001 -- PSA 501
Location Type Residence/Home
SW Corner of Flager & W Street NW
Aggravated Assault Factors: Unknown Circumstances -- Gun Involved Handgun
Victim(s) Seth Conrad Rich
2113 1st Street NW, Washington DC 20001
CNN #16113797 Public Narrative
"CIC reports sound of gunshots at 2134 Flager Pl NW.
Upon arriving at the scene the decedent was laying [sic] in the Southwest Corner of the
intersection of W St and Flager Pl NW. The decedent was conscious and breathing with
apparent gunshot wound(s) to the back. The decendent was transported to local area
hospital and was pronounced by attending physician at 0557 hours."
[COMMENTS by ed., not by police}
The report does not mention more than 1 hospital involved. I saw on Twitter what looked like a Freedom of Information Act request submitted to the FBI a request for body cam video data, which was refused -- possibly with the allegation that the FBI did not have those videos, but with mumbo jumbo disclaimers.
I am not presently using this data in the article because it is unverifiable -- internet hoaxes and phony documents can be put on Twitter; for example what appears to the a fake document allegedly leaked from the FBI, as I recall indicating that Seth Rich's computer data showed DNC leaked emails.(Thunkful2 (talk) 19:24, 28 May 2017 (EDT))
If it's public domain, give me a link and I'll upload the img. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 20:35, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
I have the jpg image on my computer, but I don't know how to paste it here. As to finding the original posting on Twitter, I don't know how I would find it. It was on the #SethRich page there, but there are constantly a storm of tweets there scrolling off. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:22, 31 May 2017 (EDT))
The worldnetdaily article which earned a 12 hour ban from Twitter explains that the cops did no investigation what so ever.--Jpatt 23:08, 28 May 2017 (EDT)
How did they know it was a handgun? This report presumably was completed after the time of death 5:57am and contains details from two locations, (1) shooting location (2) place of death. The handgun determination was made by or confirmed by a 3rd party, a medical expert presumably.
My guess is that they made an assumption from ballistics, though they might not really know. I mean (for example) Hi-Point makes 9mm, .40 cal, & .45 cal carbines (shoot what is normally pistol ammo from a rifle). If there was a thru shot, which seems likely, they may have retrieved a bullet from the environment. The absence of shell casings from the scene has been reported, probably from Seth's father, not directly from police. If so the weapon used was probably a revolver (does not leave casings). If a revolver, one suspects either a .38 special or a .357 Magnum. There probably does exist some rifles / carbines that shoot .357, but probably not common. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:30, 6 July 2017 (EDT))
When were homocide investigators ever alerted? And do we have their names? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 00:57, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

It appears that every Freedom of Information Act and other requests of information from authorities (videos, autopsy, hospital) are being stone-walled (as of June 5, 2017). It could be that the power structure in DC is so heavily Democrat, that the Democrat machine is driving a stone-wall on Seth Rich information. Thus far neither President Trump, nor Atty General Jeff Sessions, nor Congress is willing to investigate and hold hearings. Twitter has recently had lively Tweet activity on #Sethrich, but it also appears that if one Tweets too much on this subject, Twitter will take sanctions against the Tweeter, like blocking his account. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:41, 5 June 2017 (EDT))

There is posted on YouTube a press conference with the DC mayor Bowser & Chief of Police Lanier (no longer with the force). Mayor Bowser Gives Updates on Chancellor Search & Legislation, 7/12/16 Watch starting at 30:30: Response to Q on Seth Rich: "We do know that there were uh several males seen in the area in dark clothing prior to the time of the homicide . . . young black males in dark clothing, 2, who were seen in the area." "At this time we are still in the process of going through video & & looking fer ah locations that may have video. At at this time we have nothing that we can release." [emphasis mine] . A shorter clip of this press conference focused on the Seth Rich part is also on YouTube. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:30, 6 July 2017 (EDT))

As of July, 2017 obstruction of private investigation continues. Brad Bauman appears to be a Democrat handler assigned to be spokesman for the Rich family. Obstruction is based on the canard that investigation hurts the feelings of the Rich family. Evidently the investigation by Sean Hannity fell victim to this canard, & Sean stopped speaking about Seth Rich, at least temporarily, on cable, though his private investigation may be continuing. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:41, 6 July 2017 (EDT))

Fox News repudiated its outstanding report(s) on Seth Rich; Hannity was under attack in late May, 2017

A local Fox News outlet (I think Washington DC Fox5) put out a news item on Seth Rich. Sean Hannity also interviewed Detective Rod Wheeler on the Seth Rich matter. (There are two different topics: 1) Was Seth Rich the leaker to Wikileaks? and 2) Who murdered Seth Rich? It is thought by some that the murder was in response to the leaking. Seth Rich's parents contracted with Private Detective Rod Wheeler to investigate, reportedly only the murder & not the leaks -- which is impossible, since one must consider that the leaks are a possible motive for the murder. The 2nd time Rod Wheeler appeared, he sort of recanted a bit of his 1st testimony to Hannity. But Wheeler seemed to think that Seth Rich was the DNC leaker. After these reports, Fox News published a disclaimer retracting a former published story. Then an attack from the left was made on Sean Hannity to get him fired by persuading his advertisers to dump the show. Some have done this, including Carsdotcom. In turn this has led to a backlash by Hannity fans against any advertiser who thus drops Hannity.

Fox News has recently fired 3 basically conservative higher-ups, all with sex harassment claims. Bill O'Reilly was most recently fired, followed by Fox News losing watchers and falling behind both CNN and MSNBC on cable. Fox had previously (in addition to those 3) gotten rid of Glen Beck. It is possible that the younger Murdocks want to get rid of the conservative talking heads at Fox News, which would seem to largely get rid of their audience! These recent reports (including from Hannity) on Fox News seem to be the only serious treatment given to Seth Rich by major news media since Seth died. Hannity declared that for the time being he was not going to say "Seth Rich" for fear of offending the family, tho he will continue to investigate. All this appears to be accepting that obstruction of Justice is OK to avoid offending family. So there is speculation about Fox News getting rid of Hannity now.
So you may be confined to minor media now for reports on Seth Rich with the major media having brushed off Seth Rich with the deflecting mantra "Conspiracy Theory." (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:53, 28 May 2017 (EDT))
The Fox article is clear in what it says. It states a "federal investigator" personally examined the evidence on the laptop in possession of the FBI. A "federal investigator", if not in the FBI or DoJ, would probably be a Congressional investigator then. While uncorroborated, a Congressional investigator personally examining the evidence in possession of the FBI only strengthens the claim. Likewise the claim of the FBI having knowledge of it in the first 96 hours. While it's clear Wheeler didn't see the evidence personally, Wheeler most likely brought the "federal investigator" together with the Fox reporter. This is the gist of the FOX article. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 14:59, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
Unfortunately as of June 3, 2017, I have never heard of any Congressional investigation nor interest in Seth Rich, except for one Congressman. I noted on @MarcoRubio Twitter page there was a sort of admonition vs. causing grief to the Rich family, which looks like Senator Rubio has adopted a leave-Seth-Rich-alone policy. (Thunkful2 (talk) 21:52, 3 June 2017 (EDT))
In a clearly personal aside, these guys look like a couple of goons to me. Why did Wasserman Schultz promote one when every other member of Congress fired them? Is she being blackmailed? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 23:52, 3 June 2017 (EDT)


The possible camera videos of Seth Rich on his fatal night include 1) Lou's Bar, 2) Wonderland Ballroom, 3) Street Security Cameras, 4) Police & EMT Body Cams, 5) Hospital cameras. There apparently is a little convenience store (Flagler Market) across from where Seth Rich was shot. The Daily Mail reports:

"Security footage from a nearby store obtained by Fox News show two men following Rich from a crosswalk in the moments before he was shot. The camera only captured images of the assailants' legs and of Rich when he fell to the ground after being shot." Kelly Mclaughlin , "Father of DNC staffer mysteriously gunned down in DC denies his son gave Wikileaks emails despite rumors his death was part of a cover up", DailyMail (January 11, 2017);
BTW in a pop-up video on that site, Joel Rich says that two police were near at the time and came on motorcycles. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:58, 28 May 2017 (EDT))
From the report, of the six, four with body cams are likely uniform cops, two without are probably plain clothes detectives. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:14, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
A good discussion of the neighborhood cameras is on YouTube, showing the Flagler Market also,
I think it was on YouTube also where I saw the claim that Flagler Market had two relevant cameras, one on 2nd floor. (Thunkful2 (talk) 01:24, 3 June 2017 (EDT)) An OAN Video on YouTube (uploaded around June 2, 2017) says (at ~17:30) that the Flagler Market had 4 cameras, 1 removed as of June, 2017 (Thunkful2 (talk) 18:34, 3 June 2017 (EDT))
Since Mary Rich, Seth's mom, says that there were 2 assailants, it is probable that the police told her that (tho they left that out of the police report).-- -- And the probable way the police would know that is that they saw a video from Flagler Market. Of course it is possible that there were eye-witnesses. (Thunkful2 (talk) 11:23, 5 June 2017 (EDT))
The police report we have now is an incident report - similiar to a traffic ticket - not a homocide file. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:03, 6 June 2017 (EDT)


Am I correct that there was no moon 4AM-5AM in Washington DC at that time? If the street lights were out, cameras might not show much. I don't know how good bodycams are in darkness. (Thunkful2 (talk) 01:12, 8 June 2017 (EDT))

Burial of Seth Rich

According to a Twitter image, obtained evidentely by some search-grave site on the internet, Seth Rich was buried in Ralston, Douglas, Nebraska. I note from checking on Jewish burial that there is reported some Jewish opposition to having autopsies and that apparently cremation is against Rabbinical law. (Thunkful2 (talk) 14:41, 29 May 2017 (EDT))

AFAIK, removal of evidence in homocide investigation can't be overruled by religious objections from the family. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:11, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
There is a spectrum of Jewish beliefs from liberal to conservative. Their positions on cremation and autopsy vary. JDano (talk) 06:56, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

Seth Rich bio?

What do you think of doing a separate Seth Rich bio article and free up more space to concentrate this mainspace with some of the content here from Talk? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 16:35, 29 May 2017 (EDT)

That is a great idea, and can give us some sense of the person. The main stream media is turning him into a cartoon character. JDano (talk) 16:52, 29 May 2017 (EDT)
Kindly do not remove anything from the article on the Murder of Seth Rich. The biography of Seth Rich in this article is very little & should not be removed. But if you want to do a biography of Seth Rich, have at it. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:44, 25 June 2017 (EDT))
Here is a biography of Seth Rich uttered at his funeral: (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:44, 25 June 2017 (EDT))

Biographical Material was Published by Omaha World-Herald

[Note: July 25 Mon through to Thurs July 28, 2016 = DEMO CONVENTION]

Michael Kelly, "Kelly: Before speech, Hillary Clinton meets with parents of slain Democratic staffer Seth Rich," Omaha World-Herald (Aug 3, 2016)

Just before taking the stage Monday [Aug 1] at Omaha North High School, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton spoke privately for five minutes with the parents of the slain Seth Rich. “I figured it would be just a staged greeting,” said his father, Joel Rich. “But my wife and I were both really caught off guard. Secretary Clinton had talked with people who knew Seth — and it wasn’t just that he had worked at the DNC and was a nice guy.”
Seth, 27, had worked as voter expansion data director for the Democratic National Committee, and his father said he had learned three days before his July 10 death that he would switch jobs from the party to the Clinton campaign. He was to work in Brooklyn, N.Y.

Hillary Clinton was “extremely warm and comforting” and seemed to know a lot about Seth, Joel said, which “made us feel good.” Tuesday afternoon [Aug 2], Joel and Mary Rich flew from Omaha to Washington, D.C., for “a tribute to Seth’s life” today [Aug 3]. “Memorial service,” his father said, isn’t the correct term, though it certainly will include memories — good ones, some dating to his Omaha childhood. It starts at 5 p.m. at Lou’s City Bar, a generic sports bar but also a “Husker gathering place” on football game days for Nebraska fans in the D.C. area. More than 125 people have signed up to attend, and Joel said it goes “until people run out of stories to tell about Seth.”

Three and a half weeks ago, Seth Rich was fatally shot after 4 a.m. while walking home in his northwest Washington neighborhood. His father said Seth had been on the phone with his girlfriend just before he was attacked. D.C. police have announced no arrests or even leads in Rich’s killing. “The case remains under investigation,” police spokeswoman Aquita Brown told The World-Herald on Tuesday. “There are no updates.”

The Riches plan to meet this morning with detectives and the Washington police chief. Joel said he “absolutely” believes that it was a random crime. He said the police “have been extremely helpful and caring about the family.” Though he and his family will always grieve Seth’s early death, Joel said, the outpouring of sympathy from all parts of their son’s life has helped.

The Riches learned last Friday [July 29] afternoon from the Clinton campaign in Omaha that the presidential candidate wanted to meet them. Monday [Aug 1] morning, the couple were told that photos would be taken. When they got to North High for the photo session, Joel said, “We found out that the secretary had requested that we be the last ones so she could spend more time with us.” They showed Clinton a photo of Seth and his girlfriend outside the White House. Mary Rich said Clinton remarked on what a room-brightening smile he had. Joel asked if the candidate would sign a photo for the girlfriend, whom he identified only as Kelsey from the Detroit area. Tuesday morning, he received the autographed photo, which included an expression of sympathy from Clinton. He said he feels terrible for the 26-year-old woman because “her life has been turned upside down.” She and Seth weren’t engaged, but Joel said it seemed to be heading in that direction.
Seth grew up in Omaha attending Beth El Synagogue and Friedel Jewish Academy. When he was a boy, World-Herald photos pictured him at the academy for an Audubon Society presentation of a bird of prey and three years later during a photo workshop. He attended Beveridge Middle School and Central High, and was always a leader. At a 2006 rally of 300 Omaha Public Schools students in support of the school district, Seth stood up and said: “A full education is one that teaches you how to deal in the real world. Thanks to OPS, I now have that full education.” He continued his education at Creighton University, where he was active in student government and inter-fraternity council. He interned for then-U.S. Sen. Ben Nelson and in recent years enjoyed working in the nation’s capital.
Seth came from a longtime Omaha family. His grandfather Gene Rich founded the Business Printing Service, which eventually was sold.

Joel Rich is an account executive with Graphics Technologies Inc., also a commercial printer. He recently served a two-year term as president of the congregation at Beth El, whose senior rabbi, Steven Abraham, was invited to give an invocation Monday at North High. The rabbi mentioned Seth Rich and the high regard in which he was held.

Today’s tribute in Washington to Seth’s life will be bittersweet for his family members, but they will appreciate everyone’s stories — no matter how long they last. Joel said he has heard over and over that Seth always was inclusive, making sure no one was left out. “He was always trying to lead the group,” his father said, “while letting others take credit.” Contact the writer: 402-444-1132,

[I edited the quote by making/changing paragraphing] (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:55, 29 June 2017 (EDT))

Evidently Seth Rich's address at time of murder was 2113 First St NW 20001, 1 1/2 blocks from Flagler & W. (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:51, 9 July 2017 (EDT))

The History of Unauthorized Access to the DNC emails & hacking

I don't know if you would call this "hacking," but a simple explanation of how the Leaker cud have gotten access to the DNC emails is that someone in the DNC who knew the emailers obtained passwords to DNC email accounts. This might have been done by looking over shoulder or making guesses based on knowing these people. Also, a given person might have left his email account on screen while he went out for lunch. For a history of the unauthorized access see : (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:40, 1 June 2017 (EDT))

The Leaks; DNC & Podesta; Was Seth Rich the leaker

DNC vs. Podesta Emails

The leaked emails are relevant to the murder because they provide a motive for the killing, though thus far there appears to be no evidence that Seth Rich was murdered by the DNC as a hit in retaliation for the leaking. We don't know that the Leaking provided the motive, but it is a hypothesis worthy of consideration.
There are two distinct email sets published by Wikileaks: 1) the DNC set and 2) the Podesta set released after the DNC set. Here is what has been reported on these two groups as to the email dates by InfoWars (
"The last date of a Podesta email published by WikiLeaks was March 21, 2016, approximately two months earlier than the last date of the DNC emails published by WikiLeaks in July."
Thus it would appear that Seth Rich can be considered as the potential source for both sets, since all the emails in both sets are dated well prior to his death. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:28, 2 June 2017 (EDT))
In reading a photo image of a timeline on the Trump-Russia conspiracy theory some months ago (which I can't locate now) there was a reference to "the industry hack" on May 22 2016. Have you seen this term before? I assume "industry" refers to CrowdStrike which discovered the breach (breach encompasses both hacking or "inside threat", to use CrowdStrike's own language). What you have is FBI ("government") and CrowdStrike ("industry"). CrowdStrike is a NATO contractor, which evidently why the FBI took their word as gospel, and has largely gone unreported. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 19:28, 3 June 2017 (EDT)


Internet quote: "NGP VAN is at the heart of the Seth Rich murder case, 'cause that's the company that houses the DNC servers at the heart of the DNC voter fraud case currently in federal court." (Thunkful2 (talk) 14:02, 4 June 2017 (EDT))
This may be taken out-of-context. NGP VAN is a firm that outsources the servers to record data about voters and their contributions (as well as process the online contributions) for many candidates, including Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. There is no indication that NGP VAN provides email servers.JDano (talk) 06:51, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

Hoaxes / Probable Hoaxes

Recently there has appeared on the internet a reference to a Seth Rich thumbdrive "found in a field in Virginia or some unknown location." For example, on Youtube there is this video: "The Story of TrishtheDish and the Alleged SETH RICH Thumb Drive," Zurich Times Channel, (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:39, 3 June 2017 (EDT))

Things That Require Explanation if a Political Assassination (Problems w/ Hit Theory)

How do you make this leap to a conclusion? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 23:02, 5 June 2017 (EDT)

It is not a leap to conclusion that the murder was not a political assassination. It is an observation that two things merely suggest not an assassination: 1) the fight & 2) no head shot, leaving Seth alive & talking. One would expect a sudden killing with lethal action, instead of getting into a fight with a careless wounding. Other considerations suggest not a robbery & that an assassination is a hypothesis worthy of consideration, like the "not to worry" bye statement on the cell phone. But I will change it to read, "require explanation." (Thunkful2 (talk) 11:52, 6 June 2017 (EDT))
Good, thank you. Absent the homocide report and myriad of other FOIA requests, we have very little to suggest anything. It could have been a very amateurish political assassination. Even an inexperienced hired killer has to make his first hit, which could appear very unprofessional, or it could be done deliberately so as not to appear as a professional hit, or a rogue element (a co-office worker, for example) with political motivations. We simply don't have enough information as yet. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:00, 6 June 2017 (EDT)
Rob, you are correct. We have no evidence for how cold-blooded the murderer(s) was/were; given that murder can rouse strong emotions inside the murderer, we should not insist that a murderer acts rationally. Moreover, there is truth in Murphy's Law. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:28, 7 June 2017 (EDT))

Videos & Recordings of Seth Rich Before His Murder

1 On YouTube there has just been unloaded a video of Seth Rich speaking in 2015, asking a question of a panel . His question takes less than a minute & is at the start of the video; the rest of the video being others speaking. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:21, 7 June 2017 (EDT))
2 (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:04, 8 June 2017 (EDT))

Neighborhood Conditions on Night of Murder indicates that the streets were dark in Bloomingdate. This video is not speculation, but the video shows documentation. Moon records indicate that there was no moon in the sky at 3AM-5AM on July 10, 2016. Darkness may have impeded camera recording at that time of the night. (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:14, 8 June 2017 (EDT))

Further confirmation of darkness comes from a document exhibited on Twitter signed as from

"First Street NW residents", entitled: "letter from a bloomingdale household to the Mayor and Ward 5 CM McDuffie": "Stop Bloomingdate crime spree": "CRIME SPREE" (July 11, 2016 1:05 PM) to Kenyan McDuffie ; eom#dc.gove;, letter addressed to Mayor Bowser, Council Member McDuffie, and Chief Lanier - - This letter states:

". . . , the streets in Bloomingdale are still dark at night . . . ."

This case will probably never be solved

The parents are against investigation whether or not the murder was unrelated to a robbery. The murder happened around 4am which isn't the greatest time to be out walking alone in a big city.

Without his parents pushing for an investigation, this case looks like a cold case that will never be solved. Conservative (talk)

They can't ignore the FOIA requests forever, unless of course the material is related to some other investigation. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 13:16, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
With the parents dissuading police from investigating the murder from a non-robbery standpoint, I don't see the police doing much. Police are people too and I can see them not wanting to upset the parents. Conservative (talk) 13:37, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
That shouldn't matter; it's like in a domestic violence case when the wife doesn't want to pursue it, that is not a consideration prosecutors can use to override their duty to shield the public from a violent offender. Heck, maybe the parents themselves were the offenders. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 13:41, 8 June 2017 (EDT)

There are lots of things that shouldn't matter, but do. I can see members of the GOP and some pundits not wanting to upset the parents too.

Second, Jewish families are often close. I don't see his parents doing this. Parents killing their children is probably not the most common type of murders. Parents protect children. As far a murders, it is probably fights between friends/lovers/coworkers/non-parent family members if the murderers have some tie to the victim.

On the one hand, he was shot when it was dark on a weekend when many robberies occur. On the other hand, I think he was shot in the back and I would think robbers would shoot him from the front or side. But I don't know. It appears as if there were two shots and at least one was in the back.

Lastly, if this was done by a professional, it is probably untraceable. So unless it was some conspiracy and one of the conspirators has a change of heart, I doubt this will ever be solved. And there are no witnesses and no description of the murderer(s) have been issued. Conservative (talk) 14:04, 8 June 2017 (EDT)

The parents made several public pleas for assistance to solve the murder from July to November, up until (1) Hillary's defeat, and a refocus on the Russian hacking cover story; (2) the refocus on the DNC lawsuits alleging election fraud. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:09, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
30% of murders are never solved in the USA.[4] I would say this is a cold case by now and only 5% of cold cases result in an arrest.[5] They have no suspects. They have no witnesses. They probably have no DNA. I doubt this murder will ever be solved.Conservative (talk)
There were many witnesses and many cameras. There surely are suspects. Also Seth Rich did a lot of talking before he died. But Congress has to investigate and hold hearings, knock down the DC Stonewall. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:59, 8 June 2017 (EDT))
Yes. We don't have the name of attending physician yet, or the hospital he was transported to, or what he is reported to have said. Or a copy of the autopsy. Or the gun that was used. Thisfar from a cold case. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 22:16, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
There are no reports of any eyewitnesses coming forward. We have no camera shots of a suspect or suspects that have been made public. We have no reports that we have a picture/pictures of a suspect/suspects.
If the case is going to be solved, there has to be public pressure. Google trends shows interest in Seth Rich spiked and now it is way down.[6]. The parents are certainly not going to create public pressure that the murder was a non-robbery related murder. Conservative (talk) 13:57, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
Hannity's not letting it go. Right now he's fighting off the attack on his advertisers that occurred last time he brought it up. But it will surge in trends when he gets back to it. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 14:11, 9 June 2017

Fox dropping the story was a big blow to the story having legs. And there is no guarantee that Hannity will get back to the story. And Seth's parents will continue to contact news outlets protesting any "conspiracy theory" news stories.

The market share of news outlets to the right of Fox is probably insufficient to provide adequate public pressure for something to be done. Trump's presidency will provide a lot of material for news outlets to cover which will compete with the Seth Rich story. In addition, with ISIS being cornered, they will continue to lash out via terrorists attacks which will provide even more things for news outlets to cover. In addition, there is a lot of political/economic stories now because things are in transition.

On top of this, public interest in the Trump/Russia story will probably wane which in turn cause the Seth Rich story to wane. In essence, the farther we get from the 2016, the less interest there may be for the Seth Rich story absent of any new developments. Conservative (talk) 14:32, 9 June 2017 (EDT)

Mr. Wheeler, the private investigator, has recanted his story and the right leaning Washington Examiner is now against the Seth Rich non-robbery angle.[7]
The Seth Rich story has insufficient legs to carry on as a major story. Conservative (talk) 14:41, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
Wheeler didn't recant, that's the CNN/MSM attempt to kill it. It only gave the story new life. That event is explained here. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:14, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
This story will remain alive as long as the Trump-Russia myth is alive, especially after yesterday, with the now thoroughly discredited FBI being even more discredited. Julian Assange has referred (in taped interview above) to "Seth Rich" as "our source", three times. FBI, as Comey said yesterday, has never examined DNC servers to establish if, indeed, they ever were hacked at all by anyone. The evidence is overwhelming that the DNC leaks were an inside job. The timing of everything - the last DNC leaks, and the murder of Seth Rich - fits. This story is not going away anytime soon. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:28, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
Julian Assange merely suggested that Seth Rich was the DNC leaker via a cryptic messages to the public.[8][9] Assange say he is careful about not revealing his sources.
Assange has not confirmed that Seth Rich was his source.
Anyways, time will tell. I hope the murder/muderers are caught.Conservative (talk)
There are many witnesses & cameras, not that we have anyone yet who saw the shots fired. Seth Rich was a witness, & he talked before dying, apparently a lot. There were several policement on the scene & EMTs. With Seth talking, there must have been cops & EMTs listening. Also there were people at the hospital who may have heard Seth talk. It is utterly incredible to postulate that the cops never asked Seth who shot him. There were bodycams on officers which must have recorded his voice. There was an autopsy & surely ballistics tests. The scandal is that all this evidence is stone-walled. Seth must have talked & been video taped at Lou's bar. Also there was a witness named Mueller, referred to below. As I say, I see no solution to this without Congress investigating. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:46, 10 June 2017 (EDT))
Peripherally, it is part of the Congressional Russia investigations. With a new FBI Director, that opens several new avenues of investigation, primarily ending Comey's stonewalling by insisting on the CrowdStrike version. But a new Director's first priority ought to be routing out corrupt elements in the FBI; hopefully he will open the FBI's evidence to Devin Nunes (if Nunes or a staff member isn't the "federal investigator" FOX News identified already). RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 01:33, 11 June 2017 (EDT)

This Case Seems Solvable

1) if a robbery or a mugging, if a high enough reward is offered, someone may talk. Also, people have consciences & someone may come forward. Also people have mouths & talk.
2) if this was a DNC hit, then a Deep Throat may come out. There is actually a huge amount of available evidence. Assange probably knows if Seth Rich is the leaker. There were many cameras, and many human witnesses. 4 or 5 cops & hospital people. Seth Rich did a lot of talking after he was shot.
3) A key to solving the case is for Congress to investigate & hold hearings, issue subpoenas, and break through the DC Stonewall. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:40, 8 June 2017 (EDT))
The problem is that Congress probably will not investigate. Nothing (good or meaningful) gets done in Washington. This is yet another example. --1990'sguy (talk) 22:03, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
Sufficient evidence exists of interference in the investigation, in the DC city government, and the Federal government as well. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 22:09, 8 June 2017 (EDT)

Phone Log of Seth Rich's cell phone, per Washington Post Article (see next section)

"Rich placed at least five calls and received two incoming calls, according to the log." [That means 7 calls, but I only found 6 listed in the Washington Post:]

Before Closing at Lou's Bar: Seth made 3 calls:
1) & 2) to Joel Rich (unanswered)
3) to a friend lasting 1 minute
At Closing time at Lou's Bar:
4) 1:21-1:33 Another friend called Seth, 12 minute call
5) 2:05-3:34 Seth called his girlfriend, Kelsey Mulka, who was in her home state of Michigan. They spoke for 89 minutes. Then the call dropped.
6) 3:36-4:19 (approx) Seth called Kelsey again, & they spoke for 43 minutes.
At about 4:19 a.m., Rich told his girlfriend he was almost home and said, 'I gotta go,' according to Rich’s father, who has spoken with his girlfriend" (Thunkful2 (talk) 20:40, 8 June 2017 (EDT))
The time at the shooting should be extremely precisely established. The end of the cell phone should be recorded by the cell phone service, and the time of shooting from ShotSpotter. The time frame seems extremely short: 4:19 hang up, 4:19 fight, 4:19 shooting; 4:20 police arrive. Less than 7 minute ambulance ride to hospital.(Thunkful2 (talk) 19:03, 9 June 2017 (EDT))

7] Shotspotter has been reported as giving very precise time down to the second for the shots: "04:19:43.217AM" This data appears to have been obtained by a FOIA request posted on a GroupSpaces Forum devoted to Seth Rich:

Important Sources & Articles on Seth Rich

Washington DC TV Station Video List has a great list of clickable reports on Seth Rich by a Washington TV station. (Thunkful2 (talk) 01:21, 15 June 2017 (EDT))

Washington Post Article Logging Seth's Cell phone activity:

This Conservapedia article itself has a very large bibliography in its footnotes. But I just came across a Washington Post article I had never read, which has interesting info, particularly on the cell phone calls.
Manuel Roig-Franzia, "Seth Rich wasn’t just another D.C. murder victim. He was a meme in the weirdest presidential election of our times", The Washington Post (January 18, 2016) , excerpts:
"A log of Rich’s phone calls, compiled by the family, accounts for a large chunk of that time — about two hours 15 minutes. But it doesn’t explain why he took so long to make a walk home that should have taken about 40 minutes.
"There’s been much speculation that Rich went to another bar, the Wonderland Ballroom, after leaving Lou’s. But a person who spoke to him that night and agreed to be interviewed on the condition of anonymity said he did not go there.
"Rich placed at least five calls and received two incoming calls, according to the log. The first three were placed before closing time — two to his father, who’d gone to bed early and didn’t hear the ring, and one to a friend; they lasted only a minute.
"Rich seems to have been on the phone with another friend, who had called him, when the bar closed. That 12-minute call ended at 1:33.
"At 2:05, he called his girlfriend, who was in her home state of Michigan. They spoke for 89 minutes. Then the call dropped. A few minutes later, he called her again, and they spoke for 43 more minutes.
"At about 4:19 a.m., Rich told his girlfriend he was almost home and said, “I gotta go,” according to Rich’s father, who has spoken with his girlfriend. (She asked not to be named or quoted because of continuing harassment of those connected to the case.) Rich didn’t sound alarmed. His girlfriend, according to a person familiar with the events of that night, went to bed thinking there was nothing amiss. . . .
"Officials told the Riches that their son, who died at a nearby hospital less than two hours after being shot, didn’t know he’d been hit in the back by two bullets. He wasn’t in pain, they were told. But he was confused. When Seth Rich was asked where he lived, he gave a previous address, Joel Rich said.
"“They were very surprised he didn’t make it,” Aaron Rich said emergency responders told him. “He was very aware, very talkative. Yep, that was 100 percent my brother.” . . ." (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:47, 8 June 2017 (EDT))

We could begin rotating out some biographical information to make room into a separate Seth Rich article. What do you think? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 22:11, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
Have at it Rob; more power to you; but I don't want to cut anything out of this article, which has only minimal biographical material. I suggest that you move this renewed discussion out of this category and put it above where there is a section for it. (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:30, 9 June 2017 (EDT))

4chan: alleged surgery resident report

Posted on May 17, to 4chan under the anonymous ID: “rhotYJAg,” the surgeon wrote:

[Q] 4th year surgery resident here who rotated at WHC (Washington Hospital Center) last year, it won’t be hard to identify me but I feel that I shouldn’t stay silent.

Seth Rich was shot twice, with 3 total gunshot wounds (entry and exit, and entry). He was taken to the OR emergently where we performed an exlap and found a small injury to segment 3 of the liver which was packed and several small bowel injuries (pretty common for gunshots to the back exiting the abdomen) which we resected ~12cm of bowel and left him in discontinuity (didn’t hook everything back up) with the intent of performing a washout in the morning. He did not have any major vascular injuries otherwise. I’ve seen dozens of worse cases than this which survived and nothing about his injuries suggested to me that he’d sustained a fatal wound.

In the meantime he was transferred to the ICU and transfused 2 units of blood when his post-surgery crit came back ~20. He was stable and not on any pressors, and it seemed pretty routine. About 8 hours after he arrived we were swarmed by LEOs and pretty much everyone except the attending and a few nurses was kicked out of the ICU (disallowing visiting hours -normally every odd hour, eg 1am, 3am, etc- is not something we do routinely). It was weird as hell. At turnover that morning we were instructed not to round on the VIP that came in last night (that’s exactly what the attending said, and no one except for me and another resident had any idea who he was talking about).

No one here was allowed to see Seth except for my attending when he died. No code was called. I rounded on patients literally next door but was physically blocked from checking in on him. I’ve never seen anything like it before, and while I can’t say 100% that he was allowed to die, I don’t understand why he was treated like that. Take it how you may, /pol/, I’m just one low level doc. Something’s fishy though, that’s for sure. [/Q] [Spacing & indentation added by ed. to make easier reading above]

COMMENT by Thunkful2:

This story has been floating on the internet for some time now, but the alleged resident has not been identified. Since the medical terminology/slang has the ring of authenticity to me, I conclude that if it is a hoax story, it was written by someone capable of using such terminology. The statement "About 8 hours after he arrived we were swarmed by LEOs" cannot refer to a swarm of LEOs while Seth was alive, since Seth Rich was shot at 4:19 AM & died before 6AM. If authentic & not a typo, the 8 hours would mean that in the afternoon long after Seth had died, the LEOs swarmed in. Before we can believe this story, it requires authentication. (Thunkful2 (talk) 13:00, 17 June 2017 (EDT))

Article in Crime Watch Daily with Chris Hanson by Michelle Sigona (09/30/2016)

[Questionable & important statements have been made bold by Thunkful2]

[Q] "It appears he was targeted," said D.C. Police Captain Anthony Haythe. "He was shot multiple times." Seth was shot at 4:19 in the morning, just two minutes after hanging up with his girlfriend, Kelsey Mulka. "We were on the phone just wrapping up our conversation, he had kind of told me that he was getting close to his house," said Mulka. Seth's grieving girlfriend is speaking out for the very first time since his murder. They had dated for two years. "There really aren't -- no words -- that can accurately express how devastating and horrific it is to bury someone that you love," said Mulka.

Although there are pockets of darkness, for the most part this neighborhood is pretty well-lit. Investigators tell Crime Watch Daily in the early morning hours of July 10, Seth was walking home. He was only about a block and a half away from home when he was gunned down, shot in the back.

"The officers who were there and they said 'Yeah, he was quite talkative, he did not realize he had been shot,'" said Joel Rich, Seth's father. But an hour and a half later at a nearby hospital, Seth was pronounced dead. Heartbreaking news to Kelsey Mulka. She was just on the phone with him, and in a split-second he was gone. Now Mulka is breaking news in our exclusive interview, revealing details, telling Crime Watch Daily there was no sign of trouble in his voice that terrible morning. "I wasn't alarmed," said Mulka. "He's kind of known as a goofball, but to me it was very clear to me that there was so much more," said Mulka. "It didn't matter who you were, where you came from or where you were going. If he thought you were in trouble, he wanted to help. If you were sad he was going to make you happy, he was going to make you laugh."

Still reeling from Seth's death, Kelsey is horrified to discover that the story of a conspiracy theory is swirling around his death. It all began on Dutch television. The founder of Wikileaks, Julian Assange, made a shocking assertion.
ASSANGE: There's a 27-year-old that works for the DNC who was shot in the back, murdered.
ANCHOR: That was just a robbery, I believe wasn't it?
ASSANGE: No, there's no finding.
ANCHOR: What are you suggesting?
Assange suggested Seth Rich may have become a target after being accused of leaking DNC emails, which led to the resignation of its chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
Seth's best friend, Michael Cass-Antony, is also breaking his silence in this exclusive interview, telling Crime Watch Daily he's disgusted by the reports.

"All those lies that are being bandied about in the news are just that, and the reason that nobody close to him has refuted them is because there's no reason to," said Cass-Antony. "Because he spoke for himself. Because anybody who knows him knows how good of a person he was, knows how much he cared for the DNC and for where he worked and how much he believed in his cause." But it's not just those close to Seth who adamantly deny those shocking claims. The police department in D.C. doesn't buy it either. The Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia released an official statement which reads, in part: "At this time, there is no indication that Seth Rich's death is connected to his employment at the DNC." -- Metro DC Police

And just the suggestion of Seth's shooting being a political hit has his parents outraged.
Seth's mom and dad want to set the record straight about the character of their beloved son, and disclose details of this case only to Crime Watch Daily.
"He had just found out he was going to go to work for the Clinton campaign doing data analysis and helping getting people out to vote," said
Seth's parents say he got the offer but tragically never had the chance to accept. They found the beginnings of his letter of acceptance in a draft email on his computer. Seth had only typed two lines, and his parents are sharing it with us.
"'All my life I wanted to be in a position that I can make a difference.'
That resonates with me because that is the heart of what my son would have said, and working on Hillary's campaign, he would be making a difference," said Mary Rich, Seth's mother.
Police suspect Seth's murder is connected to a recent rash of robberies.

"There were a few robberies that we have investigated that we're looking into to see if those parties involved in those robberies could be the parties involved in our murder," said D.C. Police Captain Anthony Haythe. But investigators go on record to confirm that Seth still had his wallet, watch and phone when he was discovered shot in the street.

"I heard there was a bunch of robberies lately by a man with a silver gun in the area," said Joseph Capone, general manager of Lou's City Bar.

Those rumblings concerned the general manager of Seth's favorite bar, the last place Seth was seen alive. "He was here just by himself that night, and even asked him if he wanted to stick around and get a ride home," said Capone. "He was like 'No, I'm going to go somewhere else and then I'll go home.'" "He was a great guy, personable, always there to kind of brighten up your day, even though that was our job as bartenders, just to make the customers happy. Seth would see if we're not happy, he would just like try to cheer us up a little bit," said Capone. Seth Rich seemed to be friends with everybody, but he would stand up to anybody for what's right.

While police can't confirm if there was a struggle before Seth's murder, everyone seems to agree on Seth's fighting spirit.

Born and bred in Omaha, Nebraska, Seth slept with an American flag over his bed. "Seth would be so offended at anyone thinking anything less of him, of caring for other people, of caring for America," said Mary Rich. He even had eyes on the ultimate D.C. prize: the White House, a place he took his girlfriend, Kelsey Mulka, on their first date. "I said half-jokingly, 'I want to live there,' and he just turned to me and said 'No, you will live there,' and that's just who he was," said Mulka. [/Q] Michelle Sigona, " Exclusive: Murdered DNC staffer's family, friends set record straight", Crime Watch Daily with Chris Hanson (09/30/2016 11:31 AM PDT)


There are questionable statements above (which I made bold):
"there are pockets of darkness, for the most part this neighborhood is pretty well-lit" WHEN lit? on Sep 30 (story date)? Other data indicates lights out & no moon at time of shooting. However, in a photo taken of the crime scene with Seth Rich lying on pavement, I saw at least one light shining on the area. So perhaps at least 1 street light did illumine the scene from some distance. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:10, 6 July 2017 (EDT))
"TWO MINUTES?" Wash Post Cell phone records indicate hang up at approximately 4:19, same minute as ShotSpotter police report for shooitng. (See Conservapedia time line). But 2 minutes would be within the "approximately." The word "approximately" calls into question the Washington Post as a reliable source here, because cell phone records should be precise. Thus I doubt the Wash Post actually got the cell phone records. But if not, how could Wash Post be so precise on the rest of the time log?
Capone: I think in a later interview Capone says he was not there. This offer of a ride home, I do not believe.
Die-Hard Democrat Family Attitude? It seems clear from Seth's friend & the family, that the family has not been willing to accept the hypothesis that Seth was the DNC leaker as that would make Seth a traitor to Democrats, a rat -- it seems to be a huge annoyance to the family to suggest the possibility; whenever one suggests that Seth Rich might be the leaker, the family seems to think we are calling Seth Rich a low-down scumbag who would sell out the Democrat party.(Thunkful2 (talk) 11:26, 18 June 2017 (EDT))

Seth's Computer

BAM: Borderland Alternative Media claims:

"An FBI source told BAM Media they couldn’t unlock the laptop, so they requested the help of the FBI." -- I would like to know more about this "FBI source" before I believe this. I mean is this "FBI source" a cleaning lady? Rod Wheeler, the Rich family detective, claimed (or seemed to indicate) that either the FBI or DC cops have the computer. Brad Bauman (Democrat handler) claims that the family has Seth's computer. But you would think that Wheeler wud have asked the family & known that if it were true. (Thunkful2 (talk) 13:39, 9 June 2017 (EDT))
Re-read the FOX article. The FOX journalist says he personally interviewed a "federal investigator" who examined the computer at FBI headquarters who evidently also examined the logs that FBI established the computer was used to transmit files to Wikileaks 96 hrs after Rich's death. The attacks on the article are that it is uncorroborated; that Wheeler himself never examined the computer. But that does not nullify the testimony of a "federal investigator" who is properly qualified. My suspicion is the "federal investigator" is a Congressional investigator, and not necessarily an inside FBI leaker. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:41, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
Wheeler simply repeated what the "federal investigator" said and allowed his name to be used; Wheeler is probably the guy who introduced the FOX reporter to the "federal investigator" (the go-between of a leaker). RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:56, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
And if the FOX reporter did not properly qualify the "federal investigator" as a federal investigator, or lied about speaking with him/her personally, the FOX reporter would be fired. That fact that the reporter has not been fired means FOX editorial management stand by their reporter. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 15:56, 9 June 2017 (EDT)
I have not seen even a hint of any Congressional investigation [sigh]. If you have a report that Congress is investigating, please post the source. Thanks. I wonder if the Fox reporter actually verified that a person claiming to be "a federal investigator" (whatever that means) was what he claimed to be? As opposed to the Fox 5 reporter's generality, Wheeler indicated one or more FBI sources. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:06, 9 June 2017 (EDT))
This is the report by Malia Zimmerman that Fox News is standing by:
"“I have seen and read the emails between Seth Rich and Wikileaks,” the federal investigator told Fox News."
That source is uncorroborated. A different article published on Fox implied corroboration, and was pulled, but sadly now has been used to attack the first article. But Fox News editors stand by Zimmerman's reporting. 23:35, 9 June 2017 (EDT)RobSDeep Six the Deep State!
The confusion lies in the follow up article (by unknown author) that implied Wheeler was the corroboration to the unnamed "federal investigator", which Wheeler never claimed to be. Nonetheless, Fox News has never retracted Zimmerman's reporting. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 00:02, 10 June 2017 (EDT)

Witnesses Who Saw Seth Rich on July 10, 2017

- In what appears to be an informal gather of persons on the street, a young white man (Mark [ P.] Mueller) wearing a blue shirt and khaki pants is shown in a YouTube video saying:

"I was there when he got shot. And uh he walked; they walked him past me so I could see him and identify him, if I knew him in the neighborhood. And the police officer said he didn't even know he was shot. So if it gives you any comfort, I don't think he had any pain physically."  ::Kevin Flynn channel, YouTube, "His Name Was Seth Rich" .
The same street meeting scene is on another YouTube channel with more context. The narrator indicates the date of this street meeting by saying that the murder took place this last Sunday. It looks like a neighborhood memorial meeting in the street for Seth Rich. The first speaker appears to be Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. This YouTube channel says that this blue shirt witness is Mark Mueller. I doubt that Mueller saw the actual shooting. (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:04, 11 June 2017 (EDT))
Another account by 4NBC, probably put out on July 11, 2016 states:
"He was talking on the phone with his girlfriend when she heard noise on Rich's end of the line, Mary Rich said. Her son told his girlfriend not to worry about it. . . . Neighbor Mike [sic] Mueller said he also heard the shots. 'I heard two sharp gunshots, very quickly. I looked at the clock and it was 4:19,' he said." Pat Collins and Andrea Swalec, "27-Year-Old DNC Staffer Seth Rich Shot, Killed in Northwest DC", 4NBCWashington (no date; probably July 11, 2016).
My guess is that it was this 4NBC story which goofed (a typo?), giving the first name as Mke instead of Mark, & that this story is the source of the repeated erroneous claim that the witness's first name is Mike. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:15, 15 June 2017 (EDT))

On Steemit there is this claim:

"Seth Rich was shot in the street outside of the home of Michael [sic for Mark] Mueller. On July 11, 2016, the day following Rich's murder, Mueller did an interview with NBC. When asked if he thought Rich's death was the result of a botched robbery, bizarrely, he momentarily fights back laughter before answering in the affirmative. He later made somewhat contradictory remarks about the events at a vigil for Rich. Finally, curiously, Mueller appears to have visited the White House two weeks after Rich's death."
I don't endorse the above, but put it out for consideration, emphasis mine. (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:11, 15 June 2017 (EDT))

An OAN video on YouTube gives this info:

Mark P. Mueller

1) had visited the white house a number of times before Seth Rich was murdered, 2) Mueller gave the time of shooting as 4:19. 3) Reports say Rich was talking to paramedics after shot. (Thunkful2 (talk) 11:00, 15 June 2017 (EDT))


"It is now said,"Mike [sic] mueller twitter researchers believe him to be [Twitter Moniker] Scott Roberts."
[But the id of Scott Roberts with witness Mark Mueller is surely wrong. Probably there is confusion with a photographer who lives in the same neighborhood. There is a YouTube & Twitter debunk of this mutual id.] (Thunkful2 (talk) 01:26, 15 June 2017 (EDT))
"Against the expressed will of thousands of DC residents, Councilmember Kenyan McDuffie testified before the DC Zoning Commission on May 13th that he firmly supports the Gray Administration’s application to re-zone historic McMillan Park for massive development. . . .

"Former Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner (ANC) for Bloomingdale, Hugh Youngblood, strongly contested McDuffie’s position.

"McDuffie . . . when asked to comment on the majority opinion revealed by the door-to-door community survey performed by neighbors in 2012, he said, “I don’t know if there’s a way of identifying what a clear majority is” and called the survey “unscientific.”

"Mark Mueller, a career scientist, former ANC for Bloomingdale, and chief architect of the 2012 survey emphatically defended the study’s rigor. “I’ve worked in science for almost 2 decades. I, along with 15 community members, made a conservative unbiased survey. . . .

"Mueller added, 'Councilmember McDuffie reviewed the draft survey form at a 2012 McMillan Advisory Group meeting where the questionnaire was approved. The Councilmember’s claim of the project’s alignment with community wishes is based solely on the developer’s version of input received during outreach meetings'."

Ambassador Craig Murray's Testimony

The Wikipedia states:

Murray claimed the CIA "are absolutely making it up" in their report claiming a Russian had provided WikiLeaks with thousands of private emails from the Democratic National Committee. "I know who leaked them," Murray said. "I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things".[48] Interviewed in December 2016 by the Daily Mail, he said the release of Democratic National Committee emails was the deed of a disgruntled Democrat employee. According to Murray, he received a package in a wooded area near the American University in Washington DC in September 2016 from "the source".[49] (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:29, 13 June 2017 (EDT))
Comment by Thunkful2: The DNC emails were published by WikiLeaks on July 22, 2016.
The Podesta emails were published by Wikileaks in October and November 2016.

The Guardian (December 10, 2016) [accessed on-line] quotes Murray:

Craig Murray, the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, who is a close associate of Assange, called the CIA claims “bullshit”, adding: “They are absolutely making it up.”


“I know who leaked them,” Murray said. “I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things.
“If what the CIA are saying is true, and the CIA’s statement refers to people who are known to be linked to the Russian state, they would have arrested someone if it was someone inside the United States.
“America has not been shy about arresting whistleblowers and it’s not been shy about extraditing hackers. They plainly have no knowledge whatsoever. [/Q]

The Washington Times says: [Q:]

A WikiLeaks figure is claiming that he received leaked Clinton campaign emails from a “disgusted” Democratic whistleblower, while the White House continued to blame Russian hackers Wednesday for meddling in the presidential election and asserted that Donald Trump was “obviously aware” of Moscow’s efforts on his behalf.
Craig Murray, a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and a close associate of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, said in the report by the Daily Mail that he flew to Washington for a clandestine handoff with one of the email sources in September.
He said he received a package in a wooded area near American University.

“Neither of [the leaks] came from the Russians,” Mr. Murray told the British newspaper. “The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks.” [Q] (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:48, 13 June 2017 (EDT)) "A Spy Coup in America?" (December 18, 2016) [Q:]

Though Murray has declined to say exactly what the meeting in the woods was about, he may have been passing along messages about ways to protect the source from possible retaliation, maybe even an extraction plan if the source was in some legal or physical danger. Murray has disputed a report in London’s Daily Mail that he was receiving a batch of the leaked Democratic emails.
“The material, I think, was already safely with WikiLeaks before I got there in September,”
Murray said in the interview with Scott Horton.
“I had a small role to play.”
Murray also suggested that the DNC leak and the Podesta leak came from two different sources, neither of them the Russian government.
“The Podesta emails and the DNC emails are, of course, two separate things and we shouldn’t conclude that they both have the same source,”
Murray said.
“In both cases we’re talking of a leak, not a hack, in that the person who was responsible for getting that information out had legal access to that information.” [/Q]
Thunkful2 Comment: There is obviously a conflict between what secondary sources have reported Murray as saying (not quoting him though), and this last statement by Murray indicating that Wikileaks already had "the material" before Murray's trip to Washington DC in September. This conflict illustrates how it seems to be like nailing jello to the wall to get the Seth Rich story straight. (Thunkful2 (talk) 17:12, 13 June 2017 (EDT))

YouTube Video at Venzuelan Embassy Jun 19, 2017

Craig Murray Denies Russia Hack Hoax

[Q] has full article. Below I post a little of it, excerpts:
After six solid months of co-ordinated allegation from the mainstream media allied to the leadership of state security institutions, not one single scrap of solid evidence for Trump/Russia election hacking has emerged. . . .
Truth disappeared so long ago in this witch-hunt that it is no longer even possible to define what the accusation is. Belief in “Russian hacking” of the US election has been elevated to a generic accusation of undefined wrongdoing, . .. . What did the Russians actually do?
The original, base accusation is that it was the Russians who hacked the DNC and Podesta emails and passed them to Wikileaks. (I can assure you that is untrue). . . .
The original “Russian hacking” allegation was that it was the Russians who nefariously obtained these damning emails and passed them to Wikileaks. The “evidence” for this was twofold. A report from private cyber security firm Crowdstrike claimed that metadata showed that the hackers had left behind clues, including the name of the founder of the Soviet security services. The second piece of evidence was that a blogger named Guccifer2 and a websitecalled DNC Leaks appeared to have access to some of the material around the same time that Wikileaks did, and that Guccifer2 could be Russian. . . .
But there are a number of problems that prevent this being fact at all. Nobody has ever been able to refute the evidence of Bill Binney, former Technical Director of the NSA who designed its current surveillance systems. Bill has stated that the capability of the NSA is such, that if the DNC computers had been hacked, the NSA would be able to trace the actual packets of that information as those emails travelled over the internet, and give a precise time, to the second, for the hack. The NSA simply do not have the event – because there wasn’t one. I know Bill personally and am quite certain of his integrity.
As we have been repeatedly told, “17 intelligence agencies” sign up to the “Russian hacking”, yet all these king’s horses and all these king’s men have been unable to produce any evidence whatsoever of the purported “hack”. Largely because they are not in fact trying. Here is another actual fact I wish you to hang on to: The Democrats have refused the intelligence agencies access to their servers to discover what actually happened. [/Q] (Thunkful2 (talk) 10:22, 19 August 2017 (EDT))

The Rich Family & Attitude

Video has been posted on the internet by Seth Rich's parents pleading for information, Mrs. Rich calling Seth her cub, like she is a mother bear. Since the initial murder, somehow a man named Brad Bauman became the alleged family spokesman, Bauman being apparently a Democrat handler, perhaps assigned by the DNC to control the family. IMHO: Seth's brother Aaron, mother, & father apparently are quite hostile to any revelation that Seth was the leaker of the DNC leaks, as that would make Seth (for them) a traitor, rat, & scumbag, who ratted out the sacred Democrat party. Thus it looks as though while the parents want the murder investigated, they are strongly opposed to any suggestion that Seth was the Leaker, & Rod Wheeler was instructed not to investigate the Leaks or Seth Rich as leaker, as if one motive for his murder must be a priori eliminated. In contrast to brother, Father, & mother, there is a Rich cousin who has suspected foul play but was apparently shut up by other(s) in the family. The cousin is Jonathan Rich. It has been reported that Jonathan Tweeted his suspicion on Twitter, only to delete it later. Matt Couch tweeted on this matter. MattCouch retweeted #RealMattCouch:

"This is a Tweet that's been deleted, it was from two members of the Rich Family... Read into it what you will.. ‪#HisNameWasSethRich"
Jonathan Rich @JonathandRich replying to @seannannity
"First thing I said when my Dad told me was he knew something and he was murdered. The rest of the family thought I was nuts. See last name." [emphasis by ed.] (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:04, 18 June 2017 (EDT))

Fox5DC Interview of Family:

"Joel and Mary Rich met with reporters on Monday where they disclosed new information and called the conspiracy theories swirling around their sons killing as "lies." They stood with Washington republican lobbyist Jack Burkman and asked for help."
"He fought with them and whoever did it, they have some bruises they have blood on them so if you saw anybody running in alleys, if you saw anybody coming home who was bruised and bloodied please call the police let them check it out," Seth’s mother pleaded. Joel and Mary revealed some new information in the case, telling reporters there were no shell casings found at the scene indicating their son was likely shot with a revolver. They also revealed more about what Seth's girlfriend heard over the phone as he walked home that morning. 'She heard some voices or something she asked are you home, he said yeah, I’m a block away, I’m home and he said I have to go and put the phone back in his pocket and two minutes later he was shot and what happened in those two minutes we would love to know,' Joel explained."
By staff "Mother of murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich pleads for public's help," Fox 5 (Nov 21, 2016) (talk) 13:39, 1 July 2017 (EDT))

Seth Rich cited in court documents as potential witness in DNC fraud lawsuit???

The suit, brought on behalf of Bernie Sanders supporters, cites Rich as a potential witness, but because of his mysterious death, and that of the attorney's process server, the court is now being asked to issue an order for protection of the plaintiff, witnesses, families, and employees.

  • 13 June. Jared Beck, lead attorney for plaintiff in the DNC fraud lawsuit, files a motion for protection of the plaintiffs and their families, as well as all potential witnesses, citing "the untimely death of our process server, Shawn Lucas; the unsolved murder of DNC employee, Seth Rich. We believe Mr Rich might have been a potential witness in this case. We have also cited the recent untimely death of federal prosecutor Beranton Whisenant in South Florida. Also recent bizarre and disturbing conduct, including threats, that has been directed at plaintiffs, their counsel, and employees."

I don't understand how anyone could claim that Seth Rich was a potential witness in DNC Fraud Lawsuit. If I understand things right, on July 10, 2016 Seth was murdered. Shortly after that the Wikileaks of DNC emails were published. Those emails indicated that Bernie Sanders had been slighted by the DNC. In response to those leaked emails, BerneCrats launched their lawsuit. They would not be calling a dead man as a witness. So I think that the above claim is impossible. (Thunkful2 (talk) 22:48, 23 June 2017 (EDT))
The lead attorney in the above linked video says, "the untimely death of our process server, Shawn Lucas; the unsolved murder of DNC employee, Seth Rich. We believe Mr Rich might have been a potential witness in this case." That would be if he were not murdered. This is why the attorneys are asking for protection for plaintiffs and witnesses. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 17:52, 24 June 2017 (EDT)
What makes sense to me is not that Seth Rich was murdered after a BernieCrat lawsuit was begun, but that looking back retrospectively, had Seth been alive after the suit was filed, he might have been a potential witness to be called. But there seems to be little argument that anyone murdered Seth to prevent him from testifying in a non-existent suit. (Thunkful2 (talk) 12:38, 10 July 2017 (EDT))

No Shell Casings Found

Although we have little information directly from the DC police, we go have a little window into DC Police evidence via oral reports from Seth Rich's parents, where they state things as facts which they apparently would only have known from the police. It appears that while the poiice stonewalls the public for information, they have told some things to the parents. The parents report, for example, that no shell casings were found at the scene. From that Fox5DC inferred that a revolver was used, though perhaps shells might have gone down a storm sewer (don't know if there is one at Flagler & West). The Profiling Project brings in the possibility of a double barreled derringer, which seems unlikely to me. From the absence of shell casings the PP infers a "sanitized crime scene," as if the shooter(s) retrieved the casings before leaving. And from "sanitized crime scene" PP apparently went way out on a limb and inferred a hired hitman or a serial murderer shot Seth Rich.

But one would not expect a hired hitman or a serial murderer to leave the killing unfinished; Seth was left alive and talking - might have identified the killer. So the killing does not seem to have been done by someone skillful at murder. If a hit, it looks like a very amateur job by someone who let emotions carry him away, who panicked and ran without finishing the job. There was little time to sanitize any crime scene. ShotSpotter records the shooting as at 4:19:43. Cops report indicates cops were on scene by 4:20AM. The parents' report to Fox5DC is posted elsewhere on this talk page. (Thunkful2 (talk) 13:51, 1 July 2017 (EDT))

Hoax Img

20375849 2137522226474831 7998815746172413048 n.jpg This came from Facebook. Can anyone help locating the source? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 20:26, 28 July 2017 (EDT)

This foto has been identified as posted / dated on Facebook as April 23, 2015, long before July, 2017. The man whose face is circled does not look like Imran Awan. Unfortunately the investigation of Seth Rich is afflicetd with crackpot & unfounded claims. To compare the face in this img, just Google Imran Awan & look at Twitter picture for Abid Awan. Neither Imran nor Abid Awan look like the hoax img posted above on this talk page. ‪ Apparently this img is a hoax. Any idea that this image is of Imran Awan has been soberly debunked in a YouTube video, "Important!!! Exploring Seth Rich and Awan,"
"RealMattCouch" (evidently a self-appointed PI & money-solicitor on Twitter) states that the pic is not of Awan, but
"This is Miguel Huerta, this was a wedding weekend in Nebraska folks."
BTW, whenever I see "Bombshell," "New evidence," "Must watch," etc., I expect it to be a nothing burger. AS Andy Rooney said, If it says Important on the outside of the envelope, it ain't important. (Thunkful2 (talk) 13:56, 30 July 2017 (EDT))
Thanks for all that, and I will follow up. Both Seth Rich and Imran Awan worked as IT workers for Wasserman Schultz in one capacity or another, one on the Hill and the other at DNC. It is a small community of specialists. No one has established contact between them? RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 16:31, 30 July 2017 (EDT)

Private Investigator Rod Wheeler & Ed Butkowsky

Rod Wheeler, sometime employee of the DC Metro Police, was contracted by the Seth Rich family to investigate the murder of Seth Rich. Ed Butkowskyvolunteered to pay for the PI. Claim has been made on the internet that Rod is unlicensed as a PI. Aaron Rich, Seth's brother (apparently an IT computer expert possibly with top secret government clearance) was involved. According to Rod Wheeler:
Aaron was adamantly opposed to Rod investigating the leaks or Seth's employment with the DNC. Aaron refused to give Seth's computer to Rod for examination. Rod also could not get access to any cell phone of Seth's, nor the official phone log for the murder night. Rod was featured in a local DC Fox5 story by reporter Zimmerman and on Sean Hannity's program also. As aired, Rod initially indicated that he had an FBI or federal source for the examination of Seth's laptop indicating a connection between Seth Rich and Wikileaks. However, soon after, Rod received a cease and desist order from a lawyer of the family against his activity. And Rod apparently recanted what he had said. By early August, 2017, Rod had filed a lawsuit vs Fox News for defamation. Rod and his lawyer have spread the accusation that President Trump knew about the Fox5 story before it was published and encouraged Fox to publish it. Rod's accusation is backed by a message from Butkowski, which message indicates White House approval of the story. However, Butkowsky claimed that he was joking. The White House denied prior knowledge of the Fox5 story.
On YouTube (early Aug 2017) there existed (and may still exist) a long audio recording of Rod Wheeler, possibly leaked by Wikileaks. In that recording Rod Wheeler seems to be speaking off the record on his experience with the Rich Family and investigating the murder. Also, there existed more than one video recording of Butowsky defending himself and the white house vs Rod's accusations on CNN. Butowski claimed he was joking in his White House approval statement to Rod. Butowsky's comments are very clear; I find them convincing. About the same time an audio recording of (the famous journalist) Seymore Hersh on Seth Rich had been uploaded on YouTube. (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:13, 3 August 2017 (EDT))
Sean Hannity was attacked over his part in the Rod Wheeler / Seth Rich story with advertisers urged to drop him. dropped him. The Seth Rich family opposed him broadcasting on Seth Rich, alleging family grief, as if family grief should impede investigation of a murder and a national issue of DNC leaks during an election. Hannity referred to the family concerns and stated that he would not mention Seth Rich for the time being, though he was continuing the investigation -- and Hannity did not retract anything he said or did. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:42, 2 August 2017 (EDT))

Rod Wheeler's Statements on Fox News: 1) On Wash DC Fox5 & 2) Sean Hannity show:

1) Fox5

FOX 5 DC: “You have sources at the FBI saying that there is information…”
WHEELER: “For sure…”
FOX 5 DC: “…that could link Seth Rich to WikiLeaks?”
WHEELER: “Absolutely. Yeah. That’s confirmed.”

Comment: The question was addresses to "You," meaning Rod Wheeler. Rod Wheeler affirmed that HE (himself) had sources at the FBI. Wheeler did not say, "It has been reported to me that there are sources at the FBI." So I don't see how RodW could later say that Rod was referring to information which Fox5 gave him. I suppose the possibility exists that Rod's statements were cut & spliced cleverly to make him say what he did not say; but I find such a claim fantastic. In fact during that exchange the two (Zimmerman & Rod) talked over each other a bit. (Thunkful2 (talk) 13:37, 4 August 2017 (EDT))

2) Hannity show: As I recall it, Rod appeared one day & made statements in reply to Sean which were like the above. But then on a following day, Rod seemed to deny what he had said before. I need to review the interviews again. (Thunkful2 (talk) 13:37, 4 August 2017 (EDT))

The Rod Wheeler LawSuit Complaint vs Fox, Zimmerman, & Butkowsky is available online via Google.

This Lawsuit cud reveal a lot via discovery: depositions, witnesses, subpoenas. (Thunkful2 (talk) 16:37, 3 August 2017 (EDT))
This should be no big mystery what happened. Fox News editors or Zimmerman called Steve Bannon or Sean Spicer to consult before publication, read it over the phone. Bannon or Spicer, hungry for Seth Rich news said, "Sure, go ahead." Zimmerman or Fox editors called Wheeler back and said "We have White House approval". This then gets translated in retelling into "Presidential authority", etc etc. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 20:40, 3 August 2017 (EDT)

Rod Wheeler Interview w/ Metro Police Dectective DellaCamera (quoted from

Patrick Howley, editor-in-chief, "Seth Rich Police Detective: Department Gave Me ‘Strict, Strict Rules,’ If I Talk I’ll Get ‘Re-Assigned’, Big League Politics (Wed August 2nd, 2017 12:08 am EST ) <


The lead homicide detective on the Seth Rich murder case said privately that the Metropolitan Police Department gave him “strict, strict rules” not to talk about the case “because of what this case is.” He said the higher-ups in the department were very aware of the case and begged a private investigator not to “throw me under the bus” because he feared he would get “re-assigned” somewhere to “moving property around” if he talked about the case.
Detective Joseph DellaCamera met with private detective Rod Wheeler at Wheeler’s Maryland office on April 25, 2017, according to notes that Wheeler took of the meeting. Those notes were provided to Big League Politics by a source who wishes to remain anonymous at this time.

DellaCamera told Wheeler that he did not have evidence to suggest that Rich was killed due to his affiliation with the DNC and the fact that Rich was not shot in the head suggests to him that it was not a hitman. But when asked if Rich was exchanging emails with Wikileaks, DellaCamera dodged the question without denying it.

Here are the full notes from Wheeler’s conversation with DellaCamera (emphasis added):

From: Rod Wheeler Subject: DellaCamera Interview April 25, 2017 (9:00am, EDT) (Rod Wheeler reporting)

Met with Det. DellaCamera of the Metropolitan Police Department, at my office in Oxon Hill, MD. Det. DellaCamera shared the following information:
He is the lead Homicide detective on the investigation surrounding the murder of Seth Rich. He stated that the investigation is somewhat stalled, as he has no suspects or persons of interest in the case. Further, upon being asked specifically about what the working theories are surrounding the death, he said he “still believes” Seth’s death was the result of a “robbery gone bad.” He believes that the suspect (s) may have attempted to rob Seth, and was met with resistance from Seth, and thus decided to shoot and kill him. He further believes the assailants are from the LeDroit Park section of Northwest Washington DC because that is the direction that an eyewitness observed two males running towards, the night of the incident.
DellaCamera stated that he (police investigators) have exhausted their search for any additional video surveillance footage that may be out there. He indicated that he has checked with several persons who may have had video footage along the route in which Seth walked the night of the incident, but to date, he has been unable to find any additional video. DellaCamera stated that he has check the local McDonald’s restaurant in the area as well as other surrounding businesses but have been unable to find any additional video. Lastly, with regards to video, DellaCamera states that there was some video surveillance footage that came from a small convenience store on Flagler Street, but the video quality is extremely bad and there is nothing on the video that anyone could see that could assist with the investigation. Further he states that on the video, you could see the bottom half of two individuals walking across the street on Flagler Street and then moments later you see Seth Rich fall into the video view in the crosswalk on the street in front of the convenient store. DellaCamera said he has a witness that observed two people running in the immediate area the night of the incident, however, they did not see the actual shooting incident.
At this point, DellaCamera voluntarily stated that the whole “conspiracy” story really “threw things off with the investigation.” He heard that Seth was an email leaker; however, he states, “I’ve got nothing to say or to show that the shooting was related to emails or anything other than a street robbery.”
When asked specifically was there any information located on any of Seth’s computers that would indicate that he did in fact send emails to WikiLeaks, DellaCamera replied, “there is certain information that I can’t provide regarding the case itself, and I hope you understand, like I said, I can’t reveal detailed information about the case itself.” “I have strict, strict rules by my bosses, because of what this case is, that says don’t provide information out, other than what is already publicly out there. I just can’t go into detail with what I know.” At this time DellaCamera was asked is it a possibility that emails were found on Seth’s computer related to the DNC and this could be a motivation for his being killed? DellaCamera replied, “anything’s possible; I can’t say one way or the other…..”
DellaCamera was then asked, “was the FBI involved, at all in the case?” He replied, “I don’t know; I mean, I never was contacted by the FBI at all.” As far as I know, they (FBI) never provided me with information.” I would hope I would know if they were involved, but I don’t have any knowledge of them being involved.”
At this time, DellaCamera stated, “I know you’re a private investigator, and whatever information is revealed, I just hope it doesn’t go towards the media side of this.” “I’ve tried to contact Jack Burkeman and Julianna Assuage several times, but I haven’t been successful. I just want to ask them what they know and if they can help me with the investigation.” “I think Burkeman is blowing smoke…with his knowledge of what happened.” I even heard he has now created a website surrounding the murder.”
DellaCamera was told that the family were told by me (Wheeler) that regardless of whatever direction the investigation goes, we need to solve the murder, identify the bad guy and get him off the street. So, in keeping with that spirit, I need to “rule out” the possibility that Seth’s death could have been related to his job at the DNC. I (wheeler) haven’t been able to rule out that someone from the DNC could have been responsible for Seth’s death. DellaCamera was asked, “were you aware that Seth was having problems with two supervisors at his job (DNC) and he was very emotionally upset because of his problems at the DNC?
DellaCamera replied, “I was aware that there were problems, but I don’t know who the supervisors were that he was having problems with.” Next, DellaCamera was asked if he was aware that Seth received money from WikiLeaks in exchange for the emails? Did you look into his (Seth’s) financial records? DellaCamera replied, “again, I can’t go into details with specifics about the case such as that…I really can’t. Nothing against you, Rod but I’m just not trying to get myself jammed up.” DellaCamera was asked, “so the higher-ups in the department are very aware of this case?” He replied, “Oh yeah, for sure.”
I asked once again about the email records. I informed DellaCamera that we need to “disprove” the theory that Seth was killed because of this job at the DNC. DellaCamera stated, “honestly, put it this way, if Seth worked anywhere else other than the DNC, nobody would give a shit about his death. The only reason there is such interest is because of where he worked.” DellaCamera was asked, “so why is that?” He replied, “again, it goes back to the DNC…a political organization and it all started stemming from around the time of the election..and it sounds like someone was trying to ruffle feathers…I mean that’s what I think.”
Wheeler asked DellaCamera, “but Seth’s death could have been a hit, ordered by the DNC, right?

He replied, “um, me personally, I don’t think it was a hit because he wasn’t shot in the head. If you’re going to kill somebody, you’re going to make sure that they die…Seth didn’t die right away…he lived for a while and died at the hospital.” Wheeler asked, “and he never made any statements as to who could have shot him?” DellaCamera replied, “I can’t go into detail about that (sniff)….um, I just can’t Rod.” Next, Wheeler asked, “so it is possible that he could have said something in terms of who did it (shot him). DellaCamera hesitated, and said, “um…it’s possible: anything is possible…..” “I mean, what I’m getting at with it being a hit, I mean, if you want somebody dead where is the one place you’re going to shoot them…in the head right. You want to make sure they’re dead…not shoot them in some other part of the body where you don’t know if they’re dead or not…you don’t know if they’re going live to give information out, and you might get yourself caught, that’s why everybody got their theories. I got mine.”

DellaCamera was asked, “here’s a fair question, can we rule it out that Seth’s death is definitely not related to the job?” He replied, “not, not to an extent..not just yet…we can’t rule anything out….” “I feel that if its related to the DNC, at some point, it may come out.” “If somebody gets locked up, and they’re like, I’m taking the heat for this, and their approached about somebody else, I feel like somebody’s going to start snitching then.”

Wheeler said to DellaCamera, “ I know that some of the news outlets are about to jump out there with more information from wherever they get it from, and a question will be posed to me, can we rule out that Seth’s death had anything to do with his job at the DNC. And I think the answer is going to have to be, and please tell me if I’m wrong, no, we can’t rule that out because we don’t have a suspect behind bars; we don’t have a person of interest. So, we can’t rule out anything at this point. Then the question is going to be asked is it possible that Seth’s death was in fact orchestrated from someone of or related to his job.

Wheeler looked directly at DellaCamera and asked, “the answer?” After a long sigh and brief laughter, DellaCamera stated, “You’ve been looking into this yourself, and, and, you have investigative experience, and like we said, anything is possible right. Until we get somebody locked up, we just don’t know. Anything’s possible.” “Look, look Rod, please, please do not quote me on anything…..I don’t need that shit coming back on me..if I’m quoted, I will probably be reassigned to CCB somewhere…..moving property around. There’s certain details of the case that we just can’t renewal to anybody, just for the integrity of the case. But, do what you got to do for your business and the news story, but please don’t, don’t throw me under the bus Rod.”
Once again, Wheeler asked, has the investigation shown that Seth received any money from anyone such as WikiLeaks during that time period. DellaCamera stated, “I don’t know. I need to go back and look at his financial records. I didn’t notice anything back then when I looked, but it’s been a while. And if he (Seth) did receive any money, who knows where he put it at…especially if he did receive money. Maybe he stashed it somewhere else..and we just don’t know.”
Then Wheeler asked, “did your review of Seth’s computer reveal that any emails went out to WikiLeaks?” DellaCamera replied, (after a long pause), well, well…there’s stuff on there that, it’s its, emails are sent everyday….um…the context of the emails I can’t get into the details, um, again, I don’t have anything pointing the finger at the DNC other than the conspiracy theories. Nobody has come to me with direct information and provided detailed information about the DNC being involved somehow.”
Big League Politics has repeatedly attempted to contact DellaCamera to get him on the record for our reporting.

[/Q] [Quote edited for spacing & indentation] Big League Politics

"Seth Rich Police Detective: Department Gave Me ‘Strict, Strict Rules,’ If I Talk I’ll Get ‘Re-Assigned’" Wed August 2nd, 2017 12:08 am EST

Patrick Howley Editor-in-Chief

Arrest of Imran Awan & the Pakistani Awan Family

Around the end of July, 2016, a Pakistani man named Imran Awan was still employed by FL congresswoman Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, former head of DNC who had to resign in the wake of the DNC emails published by Wikileaks showing DNC bias against Bernie Sanders. Imran Awan was arrested at Dulles Airport, airport for DC, as he was attempting to fly to Pakistan. Apparently his arrest was on the grounds of some banking action he was involved in only. It appears that the 3 Awan brothers, and possibly a lady in the family, are computer gurus, employable as IT workers. Probably IT Awan had password access to DNC computer(s). He had been excluded from access to Congressional computer(s) some time ago, but Debbie kept him on her payroll. There is a good possibility that Imran and Seth Rich knew each other at the DNC. Thus far I have seen no motive given for why Awan would have leaked to Wikileaks. (Thunkful2 (talk) 23:51, 2 August 2017 (EDT))

We have an article on this, by the way: Awan investigation --1990'sguy (talk) 23:52, 2 August 2017 (EDT)
I'm in total agreement - Imran had no motive to leak. If anything, he's exhibited intense loyalty to Wasserman Schultz. As to his arrest, there was a warrant used to secure the smashed hard drives on his rental property. It will take some time to examine and recover contents. But if for example classified committee documents are recovered, this opens the possibility of espionage.
As an aside, and an important point that needs more understanding, the Daily Caller reports that rules for Congress differ from the Executive Branch. The Executive uses a hierarchy of categories for "classified information", but zCongress itself only has something like 'public' and 'confidential'. But Congressional Oversight Committees handle various levels if Executive Branch classifications which they moreless can respect or leak, depending on the situation. The point is, the meaning of "classified information" - and consequences for mishandling - in the Legislstive differs from the Executive. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 02:33, 3 August 2017 (EDT)
And a word on the arrest. It looks like classic police pressure tactics. The FBI probably solicited a Marine to go rent the vacant property from Imran, look it over, find the hard drives, report it to the FBI, the FBI approached Imran with questions, Imran paniced as they hoped, and they were waiting for him at the airport. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 02:46, 3 August 2017 (EDT)

Famous Reporter Seymour Hersh Identifies Seth Rich as communicator with Wikileaks

< Red Pilled World, "Seymour Hersh audio transcript revealing Seth Rich leaked the DNC emails to Wikileaks",

copied & pasted Aug 4, 2017 (no date seen on article)

Seymour Hersh developed quite a reputation as a journalist going back at the the My Lai Massacre during the Vietnam War, the gentleman being in 2017 about 80 years old. Despite his reputation, hpwever, it has been claimed that he himself stated that his oral statements may contain falsehood, as opposed to his written statements. There surfaced on YouTube around August 1, 2017, an audio recording of Hersh (probably talking to Butkowsky) claiming that he has an FBI source who claims he has seen computer evidence connecting Seth Rich to Wikileaks. Hersh says re SethRich and Wikileaks: “All I know is that he offered a sample, an extensive sample, I’m sure dozens of emails, and said ‘I want money.’" Then Hersh refers to a "LockBox" as apparently the means of transferring emails obtained by Seth to Wikileaks.

My problem with believing this unknown alleged FBI source is that I would think that since the FBI works for the president, the FBI would have been obligated to give this information to the president. Then one would expect that Donald Trump would have informed the public and not signed on August 2, 2017, the new Russia Sanctions, since Seth Rich as the LEAKS source might rule out Russia as having hacked the DNC, though both could be true. Julian Assange denied that the DNC leaks came from the state, Russia. (Thunkful2 (talk) 00:06, 3 August 2017 (EDT))
It's a total myth the FBI is non-partisan. You have partisans from both sides trying to look non-psrtisan. James Comey, for example. It appears after Comey cleared Hillary in July, some outraged GOP field agents in all probably sat on the Anthony Weiner emails and timed their approach to Comey in late October with the evidence forcing his hand and calling his bluff. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 02:42, 3 August 2017 (EDT)
At once point Rod Wheeler referred to an FBI or federal investigator source. I am wondering if that went this way:
Seymore Hersh said to Butkowsky that there was a FBI guy who saw Seth Rich email communication with Wikileaks;
then Butkowsky told that to Wheeler,
then Wheeler reported on Fox that he had an FBI source.
That wud be quite a chain of gossip, though Hersh is on record as having made his claim:
1) anonmyous FBI allegedly tells Hersh,
2) Hersh tells Butkowsky,
3) Butkowsky tells Wheeler,
4) Wheeler claims FBI source on Fox. (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:51, 3 August 2017 (EDT))
I'll be looking into this theory, but it may take awhile to comment on it. My impression as of now is that the "federal investigator" is likely a lone staffer on the House Intelligence Committee with a low-level whistleblower FBI field agent as a contact (the field agent is not leaking, he is cooperating with Congressional oversight, hence disclosing information is legal). But the field agent-whistleblower and the staffer have more information that for now is undisclosed. Wheeler is their unofficial media contact. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 19:48, 3 August 2017 (EDT)
In Hersch's long, complicated, and storied career (and I remember My Lai) I cannot think of an instance he was wrong or misled, although I'm sure it's happened. Generally he doesn't speak on a controversisl issue til he's sure of his facts, even when it's years or decades later and the story has faded from public memory. He really does not sensationalize. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 20:01, 3 August 2017 (EDT)
As crazy as it is, these things do happen. A Congressional staffer is dispatched to FBI headquarters to perform an oversight function. An FBI source discloses information legally. The staffer returns and reports to the chairman. The chairman or staffer leak to Hersch, and follow your scenario from there. It would be legal without disrupting, obstructing, or compromising an investigation. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 20:15, 3 August 2017 (EDT)
If someone (like Wheeler or Hersh) says that HE HAS an FBI source, that should not mean that he has a Congressional liason contact who told that-someone that he had an FBI source. We are really getting into a gossip chain that way also: 1) unknown FBI agent claims something he saw (cud be lying) & tells it to Congressional staffer. 2) Congr staffer reports to Hersh that an FBI guy said that he saw something (staffer cud have misunderstood, faulty memory or be lying), 3) Hersh claims FBI guy said something (doesn't mention Congr staffer), but Hersh cud have misunderstood or be lying, 4) Hersh tells Butowski (on tape) without clear context -- Hersh cud have said before it all: "Let me spin you a yarn." 5) Buttowsky tells story to Rod Wheeler (w/ possible alterations or exaggerations). 6) Could all that be behind Rod Wheeler coming out & saying that he Rod Wheeler has an FBI source??? And with all that, there is no indication that anyone in the FBI told anything about Seth Rich to trump as part of intelligence briefing, which I wud think FBI wud have to do. And Trump never breathes a word about it to public. So what kind of ground are we on here? (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:51, 4 August 2017 (EDT))
The WickedPedia article on Seymour Hersh claims that his speeches can contain intentional falsehood:
I[Q]n an interview with New York magazine, Hersh made a distinction between the standards of strict factual accuracy for his print reporting and the leeway he allows himself in speeches, in which he may talk informally about stories still being worked on or blur information to protect his sources. "Sometimes I change events, dates, and places in a certain way to protect people. ... I can't fudge what I write. But I can certainly fudge what I say."[/Q] (Thunkful2 (talk) 15:51, 4 August 2017 (EDT))
Do we have transcript of the Hersh tape? Hersh says he has a reliable highly placed contact in the FBI. This would presumably have to be somebody with longevity, say 20 year veteran likely. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 18:21, 4 August 2017 (EDT)
I don't understand ur question. The TRanscript is posted right below here. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:25, 4 August 2017 (EDT))

Transcript of Hersh evidently speaking to Butkowsky probably appearing on YouTube about Aug 1, 2017 [Q:]

"I'll tell you what I know. All I know comes off an FBI report. Don't ask me how - you can figure out - you've been around long enough. I don't think he was murdered because of what he knew. The kid was not an IT expert, but he learned stuff. He was a data programmer, but he learned stuff.

He's living in a very rough neighborhood, and in the exact area where he lives - I'm sure you know - there's been about 8 or 9 or 10 violent robberies, most of them with somebody brandishing a gun. And the kid's hands - I'm sure you know - his hands are marked up, the cops included he fought off the people, tried to run and they shot him twice in the back with a .22 small caliber, and then the kids that did it ran - they got scared - didn't take his wallet.

Okay, so what the cops do then, and here's what nobody knows, what I'm telling you - or maybe you know something about it - when you have a death like that, DC cops, you have to get to the kid's apartment and see what you can find. If he's dead you don't need a warrant, but most cops get a warrant because they don't know if the guy has a room-mate. You need a warrant, so they get a warrant.

They go in the house, and they can't do much with his computer, it's password. The cops don't know much about it. So the DC cops, they have a cyber unit in DC and they're more sophisticated. They come and look at it. The idea is maybe he's had a series of exchanges with somebody who says 'I'm going to kill you, you mother ****er over a girl' or... And they can't get in. The cyber guys are a little better, but they can't make sense of it, so they call the FBI cyber unit. The DC unit, the Washington field office is a hot s*** unit. The guy running the Washington field office, he's like a three star at an army base. he's ready for four. You know what I mean - he's gong to go for a top job. There's a cyber unit there that's excellent.

What you get in a warrant - the public information you get in a warrant - doesn't include the affidavit underlying why you're going in - what the reason was. That's almost never available. I can tell you that. The existence of a warrant is a public document 99% of the time.

So, and the same morning they call in the feds. The feds get through and here's what they find. This is according to the FBI report. What they find is he makes contact.

First of all, you have to know some basic facts. One of the basic facts is that there are no DNC or Podesta emails that exist beyond May 21st or 22nd, the last email from either one of those groups.

And so what the report says is that sometime in late spring/early summer, he makes contact with Wikileaks. That's in his computer, and he makes contact. Now, I have to be careful because I met Julian ten twelve years... I stay the f*** away from people like that. You know, he's invited me, when I'm in London I always get a message, "Come see me at the Ecuadorian embassy." F*** you, I ain't going there. I got enough trouble without getting photographed. He's under total surveillance by everybody.

Anyway, they found what he had done. He had submitted a series of documents, of emails, some juicy emails from the DNC. And you know, by the way all this s*** about the DNC, you know, whatever happened the democrats themselves wrote this s***, you know what I mean. All I know is that he offered a sample, an extensive sample, I'm sure dozens of emails, and said, "I want money."

Then later Wikileaks did get the password. He had a DropBox - a protected DropBox - which isn't hard to do. I mean you don't have to be an IT wizard. He was certainly, he was not a dumb kid.

They got access to the DropBox. He also - this is also in the FBI report - he also let people know with whom he was dealing. I don't know how he dealt with the Wikileaks and the mechanism but he also... The word was passed according to the NSA report, "I also shared this box with a couple of friends so if anything happens to me it's not going to solve your problems." Okay. I don't know what that means. I don't know whether he...

Anyway, Wikileaks got access, and before he was killed. I can tell you right now. Brennan's1 an asshole. I've known all these people for years. Clapper2 sort of a (illegible) guy but not a rocket scientist. The NSA guy's a f***ing moron. And the trouble with all those guys is the only way they're going to make it to, you know, get hired by SAI (illegible) and delivered some fat cat contract is if Hillary stayed in. With Trump they're gone. They're done. They're going to live on they're pension. They're not going to make it. And I got to tell you, guys in that job, they don't want to live on their pension. They want to be on boards making six hundred thousand bucks.

I have somebody on the inside. I've been around a long time and I write a lot of stuff. I have somebody on the inside who will go and read a file for me. This person is unbelievably accurate and careful. He's a very high level guy. He'll do a favor. You're just going to have to trust me. I have what they call in my business, long form journalism, I have a narrative of how that whole f***king thing began.

It's a Brennan operation. It was an American disinformation operation f***ing the f***ing president. And at one point they even started telling the press, they were back-briefing the press, the head of the NSA was going and telling the press - f***ing c***sucker Rogers3 - was telling the press that we even know who in the Russian military intelligence service leaked it. I mean all bulls***.

I worked for the New York Times for f***ing years. The trouble with the New York Times is they have smart guys but they're totally beholden on sources. If the president or the head of the (illegible) told them something, they actually believe it. I was hired by the Times to write about, go after the war, the Vietnam war in 72, because they were just locked in, so that's what the Times is. These guys run the f***ing Times.

And Trump's not willing to... I mean I wish he would calm down and had a better Press Secretary. Trump's not willing to think they all f***ing lied about him."

- - - - - - - - - -

This is arguably the biggest scandal in decades, and yet despite the magnitude of the scandal, it's a sad reflection on just how corrupt and anti-American the mainstream media has become that the majority of them will attempt to cover this story up.

Everyone needs to share this story far and wide. Tell your friends. Tell everyone you know. Sydney Hersh, arguably the greatest investigative journalist of the last five decades, has stated:

  • Seth Rich leaked the DNC emails to Wikileaks.
  • Obama's intelligence chiefs, led by John Brennan, ran a disinformation campaign to mislead the American public. [Q/] (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2017 (EDT))

Important Extracts & Comment on the Seymour Hersh Transcript Above

1) "I don't think he was murdered because of what he knew. The kid was not an IT expert, . . . He was a data programmer, . . . .
2) "He's living in a very rough neighborhood,"
Comment: I checked the crime stats & found the spot above avg in crime, but no highest. My guess is that the very close Le Droit neighborhood (close to Flagler & W) to the West of Bloomingdale may be a higher crime area & that thugs may come over from time to time.
3) "tried to run and they shot him twice in the back with a .22 small caliber, and then the kids that did it ran - they got scared - . . . ."
Comment: This is a reasonable guess, but I don't know how Hersh claims it was a .22. I suppose that 2 shots in torso with .22 long rifle (hopped up rounds) could cause internal bleeding & death. But a .22 is certainly not the weapon of choice for a hit. There are really cheap 9mm guns available. If a .22 revolver, then no shells would be found from only 2 shots. I had been thinking it was likely a .357 to explain the death (no evidence for that). If it was a .22, I think we are forced to deem the DNC-hit hypothesis unlikely -- also from the lack of a headshot. However, I think there may be a confusion where in Hersh's mind, confusing a "Glock 22" .40 caliber standard FBI handgun with a .22 caliber revolver. I think some tried to connect the murder of Seth Rich with a stolen FBI .40 caliber "Glock 22," which would be a semi-automatic, in conflict with the opinion that the lack of shells suggests a revolver. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:32, 4 August 2017 (EDT))
4) "They go in the house, and they can't do much with his computer, it's password. The cops don't know much about it. So the DC cops, they have a cyber unit in DC and they're more sophisticated. They come and look at it."
Comment: Strange: why wud they come & look instead of taking the computer to HQ, to a lab?
5) "they call the FBI cyber unit. . . . So, and the same morning they call in the feds. The feds get through and here's what they find. This is according to the FBI report. What they find is he makes contact. . . .

And so what the report says is that sometime in late spring/early summer, he makes contact with Wikileaks. That's in his computer, and he makes contact. . . . Anyway, they found what he had done. He had submitted a series of documents, of emails, some juicy emails from the DNC. . . . All I know is that he offered a sample, an extensive sample, I'm sure dozens of emails, and said, "I want money.""

Comment: This may be contrary to our idealized vision of Seth Rich, but we should not be conjuring up "paragon of virtue" myths when we have little evidence. Demanding $ does not look so bright, as it makes one vulnerable to IRS matters; he wud owe tax on it. As to the FBI, if Hersh is correct, this would seem to imply that the FBI has withheld information from Trump, since Trump has never mentioned Seth Rich to my knowledge.
6) "Then later Wikileaks did get the password. He had a DropBox . . . . They got access to the DropBox. He also - this is also in the FBI report - he also let people know with whom he was dealing. I don't know how he dealt with the Wikileaks and the mechanism but he also... The word was passed according to the NSA report, "I also shared this box with a couple of friends so if anything happens to me it's not going to solve your problems." Okay. I don't know what that means."
Comment:I don't know what NSA report Hersh would refer to. Suddenly the NSA seems involved?
7) "Brennan's1 an asshole. I've known all these people for years. Clapper2 sort of a (illegible) guy but not a rocket scientist. The NSA guy's a f***ing moron. And the trouble with all those guys is the only way they're going to make it to, you know, get hired by SAI (illegible) and delivered some fat cat contract is if Hillary stayed in. With Trump they're gone. They're done."
Comment: Why is Hersh digressing on [John?] Brennan. What does he have to do with this?
8) "I have somebody on the inside. I've been around a long time and I write a lot of stuff. I have somebody on the inside who will go and read a file for me. This person is unbelievably accurate and careful. He's a very high level guy."
Comment: Who is this guy? Is he FBI?
9) "It's a Brennan operation. It was an American disinformation operation f***ing the f***ing president. And at one point they even started telling the press, they were back-briefing the press, the head of the NSA was going and telling the press - f***ing c***sucker Rogers3 - was telling the press that we even know who in the Russian military intelligence service leaked it. I mean all bulls***."
Comment: Really if we are examining evidence, cuss words should not be censored out. I must check into Brennan.
10) And Trump's not willing to... I mean I wish he would calm down and had a better Press Secretary. Trump's not willing to think they all f***ing lied about him."
Comment: IMHO: has seemed too timid on this RussiaHoax, playing along w/ it, not investigating SethRich.
11) [This evidently is not Hersh any longer, but Red Pill's comment on Hersh:
Tell everyone you know. Sydney Hersh, arguably the greatest investigative journalist of the last five decades, has stated:
Seth Rich leaked the DNC emails to Wikileaks.
Obama's intelligence chiefs, led by John Brennan, ran a disinformation campaign to mislead the American public. [Q/]
Comment: That claim about 17 intelligence agencies came out of Hillary's mouth before the election. Those 17 would have all been Obama Administration agencies, expected to cooperate w/ Demo talking points. None of them checked the DNC servers anyway. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2017 (EDT))
Comments on your comments: (3) This is the first reference any where to the type of gun. We've discussed this on this page months ago. A 22 caliber suggests it was an amatuerish hit. (5) The big news here is the existence of an FBI file, (6) The even bigger news is moving up the food chain to full scale intelligence community knowledge and involvement, Brennan, Rogers, and Clapper. (7) Hersh is tying in the hit on Rich to the Deep State coup against Trump. (8) Judging by context, Hersh's source is higher up, high-level CIA, DoJ, or NSA on the low end of the scale to DNI's office in the middle, or the National Security Council staff at the top. A career employee, as I noted elsewhere. (9) John Brennan is a real work of art; I've been working on his bio and it needs updating. He & I are nearly the same age, and have shared nearly the same life experiences and perspectives. I've been working on getting into this man's head to resolve the contradictions in his life story, and have much to say. Work in progress.
Conclussion: the Seth Rich murder & Deep State coup are interrelated. One other observation, Hersh lets Obama off the hook by saying Obama was decieved by Brennan. While that certainly was easy, Obama still has culpability for (a) acting on Brennan's advice, and (b) granting blank check authority to the Deep State war criminals and coup plotters. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 20:26, 4 August 2017 (EDT)

Observations: (1) Hersh rapidly goes from talking about the existence of an FBI file to the existence of an NSA file on Seth Rich; (2) this knowledge in open source gives Congressional Oversight Committees power to demnd documents from from the Executive Branch for "any and all documents". (Simple illustration: in a FOIA request, you must provide the exact file number to obtain the document. Documents are casually referenced by name, like "The Rosenberg File" or "The Family Jewels", but files are often intercollated with two different investigations, like Hillary email and the Clinton Foundation. So the document number is used to hide sensitive information from both Congress and the FOIA. Redactions are how the existence of sensitive information is shielded - one file referencing the existence of another secret file by number. Occasionally a secret file sneaks through by a failure in the redactions process. Once the file number is known, anyone can access it by the Freedom of Information Act). (3) Hersh is serving notice to Congressional Committees, by a circuitous route to protect his leaker, the existence of both an FBI file & investigation into Seth Rich, AND an NSA file on Seth Rich. This is now, per Seymour Hersh a reputable journalist, public knowledge and gives legal Condtitutiinal authority to Congress to exercise its advise and consent function. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 19:07, 4 August 2017 (EDT)

Thanks Rob for the comment. I think that Congress has power to subpoena any document from the EXecutive branch by any way Congress chooses to use, tho the president can object with executive privilege. (Thunkful2 (talk) 19:20, 4 August 2017 (EDT))
Yes, but Congress must be specific in it's requests. Sen. Grassley's recent series of requests to DoJ are a good object lesson. He must first cite public knowledge of certain known facts, than specifically demand production of documents for "any and all matters related to" whatever cause of the Congressional investigation. On the receiving end, DoJ is always looking for loopholes in Grassley's requests to avoid full disclosure. If Grassley makes no specific request of documents pertaining to Seth Rich, portions in other documents relating to the existence of a Seth Rich file are redacted out. Heretofore we had no knowledge of a federal Seth Rich investigation - such allegations were relegated, according to reputable sources, as Alex Jones conspiracy stuff. Now Grassley has the legal tools to demand production of documents, but first other known reputable publications must pick up on Hersh's statements and give them credibility. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 19:33, 4 August 2017 (EDT)

Claims of Matt Couch @RealMattCouch Twitter, Youtube

An evidently self-appointed amateur private investigator, Matt Couch, has made claims on Twitter, Periscope, & YouTube. Unfortunately, I know of no way to verify his claims & do not deem him a reliable source. He calls his group America First Media and has a team working with him, including one Bill Pierce, who seems to be a sober, capable investigator. Matt went to DC and poked around, claiming to know the name of the doctor at MedStar who treated Seth Rich on July 10, 2016. His video presentations are very long in irrelevant content vs relevant claims. Most recently (August 8. 2017) along with a YouTube video he made this claim:

"Breaking! Seth Rich was lured to a party at 3 AM where we was the supposed "Guest of honor" at a house owned by Imran Awan & DNC before being murdered. Last call w ex-gf Kelsey Murka was only 45 seconds contradicting what she has told investigators."
Thus Matt contradicts the Washington Post call log, which apparently WaPo never actually saw, since that log says "about 4:19" for phone hangup time, but a log would be exact. It seems most likely that WaPo got its log from the Rich family. Matt seems to think that Seth was lured to a 3AM party by DNC people who set him up for murder. If Matt is correct, the coverage of the 2+ hours between 2:05 AM and 4:19 AM by a long phone yak between Seth & Kelseyl, is incorrect. Rod Wheeler said that he knew of a party that Seth went to, I think on July 9, before he went to Lou's bar. But Rod was clear that he had not said that the party was an IT affair. It is hard to know how to evaluate Matt and his claims. Matt may be listening to gossip. It is good to keep an open mind, but I give no credence to Matt. (Thunkful2 (talk) 09:47, 9 August 2017 (EDT))

Russia Hacks or RussiaHoax: Forensicator, "Adam Carter," Guccifer 2.0, VIPS, Wm Binney, Loomis

The alleged Russia Hacks are to some extent an alternative hypothesis to that of Seth Rich being the WikiLEAKer. However, I expect it to be argued if Seth is proved to be the DNC Leaker, that only some WikiLeaked Democrat emails came via Seth Rich, but others still were Russia hacked. I, myself, have never bought the Russia hack theory, regarding it as a hoax perpetrated by CrowdStrike & the Democrats to deflect and change the story from DNC dirty tricks to ain't-it-awful-how-Russia-meddled-in-US-election. (Moreover, ain't it awful how the Russians helped Trump win.) The extreme form of this Democrat canard is how Trump & Putin worked hand-in-hand together to get Trump in office. The fact that the DNC refused to let the FBI look at its server & the probability that Democrat-hired Crowdstrike is the sole source for the USA Obama installed Intelligence Agency Leaders proclamation, "Russia hacked," leads me to reject the Russia hack theory as a hoax, even though almost everyone in Congress bought it & Trump. Wm Binney says that when a download is made, the start & stop time of the download is also recorded, but that in the case of certain leak download(s), the time period recorded is too short for internet, as one cannot download that fast on the internet.

Recently, however, certain other investigators who seem to have geek-knowledge, have apparently debunked this Russia Hoax. Unfortunately, I am not a geek (even if highly educated), so thus far I have not been able to understand the debunking claims of these "other investigators," that is, understand the claims well enough to evaluate their arguments. You are getting into rarified air when you study these debunk claims. But if you care enough, you may have at it. Here is a quote from such a debunk source: [Q]:
Forensicator has pointed out, the files could have been copied to a thumb drive -- something only an insider could have done -- at about that speed. Adam Carter, the pseudonym for the other analyst, showed that the content of the Guccifer files was at some point cut and pasted into Microsoft Word templates that used the Russian language. Carter laid out all the available evidence and his answers to numerous critics in a long post earlier this month. VIPS includes former National Security Agency staffers with considerable technical expertise, such as William Binney, the agency's former technical director for world geopolitical and military analysis, and Edward Loomis Jr.,[/Q] [Quote edited for spacing only.]
Here are a few websites / YouTube on this Forensicator / VIPS / Binny stuff, 1st 1 is source of the above quote: (Thunkful2 (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2017 (EDT))

Roger Stone interview on Seth Rich

This short interview with Roger Stone is interesting, and he discusses Seth Rich's murder as well as Wikileaks and Julian Assange. Enjoy! --1990'sguy (talk) 23:51, 2 February 2018 (EST)

Mueller report

The Mueller Report says Assange got the DNC email from Russia's GRU and that he used Seth Rich to divert attention from his real source. If the DNC had nothing to hide, it's odd they would turn to CrowdStrike instead of the FBI. It's even more odd that Comey's FBI was cool with this.[10]
The MSM usually presents this issue in term of the "the right is smearing Seth Rich." But Assange is hardly right-wing. Given that he is the guy most likely to know the truth of this matter, it made sense to listen to what he had to say. But now it seems that he was acting as a Russian agent. PeterKa (talk) 06:10, 19 April 2019 (EDT)

All the more reason to investigate the investigation. Assange will be in the U.S. soon enough to give testimony. RobSDeep Six the Deep State! 10:26, 19 April 2019 (EDT)