Essay: Defunding Ukraine is the biggest issue we face

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Party affiliation in the USA in 2022.jpg

This is a good chart in showing how the peace and anti-war movement benefited the Democrats at the expense of Republicans. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:57, February 28, 2023 (EST)

As the GOP became identified as the The War Party, people registered their protest, despite the unpopularity of speaking out against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, by telling pollsters they identified as Democrats in opposition to the The War Party. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:01, February 28, 2023 (EST)

Look closely at the rise from 2004 to 2008 of Democrats; just as vocal opponents of the wars were called "terrorist sympathizers" and "jihadi apologists", so too today are people who speak out against the war called "Putin propagandists" and "Russia sympathizers". So long as the Congressional Progressive Caucus continues to support the Uniparty warmongers and military industrial complex, people can register their support for the peace movment and defunding Ukraine by identifying as opponents of The War Party, i.e. identify as Republicans.

Screw social issues. War is the biggest social issue you can imagine.

Even if the House voted 435-0 to defund Ukraine tomorrow, Biden has enough of an unspent reserve fund to drag out Ukraine aid to November of 2024 or January of 2025. We're in this for the long haul. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:10, February 28, 2023 (EST)

Americans are tired of endless wars. At the same time, Andy cares deeply about social issues and it's his wiki. The website was never intended to be Russiapedia. Conservative (talk) 16:26, February 28, 2023 (EST)
Do you want to defund Ukraine? RobSGive Peace a chance 16:27, February 28, 2023 (EST)
Defubnding Ukraine is the biggest issue we face. It will affect everything from inflation to questioning gay marriage and transgenderism before it's all over. We cannot ignore the fact that LGBT rights, under the guise of "freedom, democracy, and human rights" led us into this war, and will continue leading us into global conflict if we allow it. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:39, February 28, 2023 (EST)
More analysis: Look at the dramatic drop in GOP support after 2004, and lag in the spike for Democrat support in 2006. Translation: As people bailed from the GOP, they still were afraid to speak out against the wars as indicated by the lag. it was the midterms that brought them out.
In other words, don't expect the Peace Movement to flower overnite. Let liberal, Democrat, Uniparty, or whatever label you wish to use, warmongers keep speaking out, justifying war. Only Republicans need to keep silent or softly oppose it. Let the liberals, progressives, Democrats, and Bidenites become identified as the War Party, allow for that lag time and it redound to the GOP's advantage. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:30, February 28, 2023 (EST)
I will respond to your above posts on your talk page. Conservative (talk) 06:48, March 2, 2023 (EST)

The war in Ukraine is not the biggest issue the USA faces

RobS, you wrote concerning the USA: "Defubnding Ukraine is the biggest issue we face".[1]

My reply:

Defunding Ukraine is not the biggest issue the USA faces. It's biggest issue is its deficit spending and its bloated government which is largely driven by its entitlements and huge defense spending. The federal government spent $6.27 trillion in FY 2022. Right now, 14% of the total federal spending is paying on interest related to the national debt. About $100 billion was spent on the war in Ukraine which is about 1.6% of government spending.

- It seems you do not understand the difference between Emergency spending, Temporary spending, and Permanent spending. Or how "Temporary spending" has a habit of becoming Permanent spending, which is how we got a $6.27 trillion budget in FY 2022, an uncontrollable deficit, bloated national debt, and 14% of spending on interest. Again, the war spending on Ukraine was the biggest issue facing the American people in 2022, and the lack of focus on the biggest issue has left the United States with Permanent spending on more warmongering and useless projects for the foreseeable future which has not, and will not, make us more "secure". RobSZelensky Must Go! 02:04, October 30, 2025 (EDT)

So from a budgetary perspective, the war on Ukraine is a small part of a much larger problem.

- Again, a simple lack of focus on priorities.

Americans, who are living longer, need to work longer and Social Security and Medicare should be means tested. Also, the USA spends a ton on health care and Americans are not super healthy. Japan is the only country in the world to have successfully tackled obesity and they have a "fat tax".[2] Japanese live 7 years longer on average than Americans. Tax the fat people America!

- Blah blah blah liberal claptrap.

Both Russia and Ukraine are filled with corrupt and authoritarian people which is why their futures are bleak. On the other hand, one in three Africans live below the global poverty line and Taiwan is being bullied by China so I have a lot more empathy for these people. According to the World Data Lab, 42 African countries are in poverty, and in 16 of those countries, the poverty rate is rising.[3] Based on the research related to Protestant cultural legacies, evangelism directed towards Africa could improve their situation. I believe Africa is more fertile ground for the gospel than Ukraine/Russia. The Christian faith has grown exponentially in sub-Saharan Africa, from just 9% of the population in 1910 to 63% today.[4] On the other hand, in 2022, it was reported that attendance at Russian Orthodox Church services in Russia has dropped to around one percent.[5]

- Look in your own backyard before you criticize.

Maybe Americans will develop more Ukraine fatigue. I hope so, but judging from Vietnam War, Iraq War and Afghanistan War and the strength of the military-industrial complex, the funding of the war could drag on.

- Who cares about killing, huh?
Olinger email on Zeihan.PNG

And as far as an issue that is going to affect the world, if you read the article Religion and Africa, you will read "Africa has a high fertility rate and it is seeing a big population boom. According to the Institute For Security Studies: "Africa's population is the fastest growing in the world. It is expected to increase by roughly 50% over the next 18 years, growing from 1.2 billion people today to over 1.8 billion in 2035. In fact, Africa will account for nearly half of global population growth over the next two decades... Between 2000 and 2020, the continent of Africa had more than 37,000 new Christians every day. For more information, please see: Study traces exponential growth of Christianity in Africa".

On the other hand, the fertility rates of Ukraine and Russia are very bad (See: Russia's fertility rate and Peter Zeihan's demography series). In thirty years, there will likely not be many ethnic Ukrainians and perhaps in 60 years there will not be very many Russians due to their subreplacement fertility rates.[6]

- Peter Zeihan, huh? So that's who's influencing your thinking.

So spend less time focusing on the corrupt and authoritarian countries of Russia/Ukraine which have bleak futures and focus more on Africa! And focus more on the USA which is going to continue to be the preeminent country in the 21st century for the foreseeable future - unlike Russia! See: [[Essay: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future|The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future]] and [[Essay: Why I am not bullish on Russia's future|Why I am not bullish on Russia's future]]. Conservative (talk) 07:16, March 2, 2023 (EST)

Right. I forgot. People are more concerned about Disneyland. RobSGive Peace a chance 07:09, March 2, 2023 (EST)
See Multipolarity and Petrodollar. RobSGive Peace a chance 07:09, March 2, 2023 (EST)
In 20 or 30 years, the U.S. will still be a substantial regional power, perhaps like Brazil in South America, Iran in West Asia, or Nigeria in Africa. But it will not be the global hegemon it once was, able to project and inflict power in the world as it has done for the last century. RobSGive Peace a chance 07:26, March 2, 2023 (EST)
I'm sorry. I really don't understand your argument. I said, "Defunding Ukraine is the biggest issue we face." Are you arguing for continued funding of the Ukraine war? RobSGive Peace a chance 07:42, March 2, 2023 (EST)
Are you saying, "well, Ukraine and Russia are going to be extinct in 30 or 50 years, so let's hurry that up a few decades." That is some sick, twisted reasoning. RobSGive Peace a chance 07:46, March 2, 2023 (EST)
You wrote: "Are you saying, "well, Ukraine and Russia are going to be extinct in 30 or 50 years, so let's hurry that up a few decades." That is some sick, twisted reasoning."
When you stoop to putting words in your debate opponent's mouth in order to create a straw man fallacy that is a very clear sign that you lost the argument. As much as I hate to do it, I declare total victory!
- No, that's what you said - 'they're all gonna die anyways, so what's the difference if the US taxpayer hurries it up? We have other priorities'. RobSZelensky Must Go! 02:25, October 30, 2025 (EDT)


The USA may go through a Great Depression 2.0 in the 2030s due to its enormous debt which is growing[7] (which will greatly affect the rest of the world due to the size of the USA economy), but it will bounce back. If there was some hopeful things happening in Russia/Ukraine, I would be the first to mention it. There is a growth of Protestantism in Russia, but it is small compared to some of the other regions of the world like in Africa or China (See: Growth of Christianity in China). Religion plays a big role in a society's culture. And once again, I will mention that in 2022 it was reported that attendance at Russian Orthodox Church services in Russia has dropped to around one percent.[8] Conservative (talk) 08:27, March 2, 2023 (EST)
Is that a pro-war or anti-war response? Seems to me, you support neo-Nazis. RobSGive Peace a chance 14:06, March 2, 2023 (EST)
After you failed putting my words in my mouth, I frankly don't care what "seems to" you. You are not taking an honest approach and you are purposefully being a difficult person. Conservative (talk) 15:01, March 2, 2023 (EST)
“ This country is doomed! It is doomed not just because of African Americans, but because by 2040 this country is going to be minority white European! Hear me! Minority white European! ”

—User:Conservative Joe Biden

Your falling back on demography and "science" to justify every crackpot idea under the sun is balderdash.
“ "There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid. ”

—Proverbs 31:18-19

You use some of the most twisted, convoluted reasoning imaginable.
I say,
"Defunding Ukraine is the biggest issue we face".
You say,
the "biggest issue is its deficit spending...About $100 billion was spent on the war in Ukraine which is about 1.6% of government spending."


Nevermind cutting 1.6% this year, cause in 2 years, after the GOP fails to cut that 1.6%, the Dems can go on for another 2 years, or 20 years, adding to that bloated deficit. Then you go on, "Russia, China, Africa, Japan bla bla bla obesity, the Russian Church, Protestantism, bla bla bla fertility bla bla bla..." I'm sure your arguments make sense to you, but please, don't explain it to me. You never address the moral problem of you shelling out of your pocket money for Nazis. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:49, March 2, 2023 (EST)
Then you double down on inanity, citing Russian church attendance as cause for the US to continue shelling out 1.6% of federal spending, adding to the national debt, knowing church attendance means nothing. Roman Catholics and Mormons mandate church attendance, yet it is Protestants who question whether they are even Christian (never mind qualifying your source).
It seems impossible for you to stay focused on an issue or discussion sometimes. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:41, March 2, 2023 (EST)
People are not flocking to Russia, they are leaving. And having babies is a fundamental aspect of a functioning culture and Russians are having a subreplacement level of births. A lot of Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine. This isn't rocket science as far as figuring out the negative implications for Russia. If you don't get it, it is because you willfully don't want to get it and your being stubborn. But that is not my problem. It is yours. I led the proverbial horse to water. I suggest you drink. Conservative (talk) 18:42, March 2, 2023 (EST)
If you had some facts beside your regurgitated NATO Nazi propaganda to support continuing aid to Nazis, it would be different.
How many times in your life did you have to deny that you were a fascist right-wing Nazi? And here's your opportunity to take a moral stand against Nazism, and you bow to peer pressure from secular atheists cause you don't want to be called a 'Putin shill'. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:52, March 2, 2023 (EST)
And your pretending to rise above it (while continuing to pay Nazis) by saying "they're both authoritarian and corrupt," is moral cowardice. If it were me, I'd just shut up. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:55, March 2, 2023 (EST)
I wish I could hide my head in the sand and go into denialism to escape difficult moral choices by saying things like, "U.S. taxpayer supported Nazis don't matter cause its only 2% of the budget and in 40 years there will be more African Protestants anyway," but I am of the school of realism. 20:07, March 2, 2023 (EST)
Let's talk about Prof. Mearsheimer for a minute. You say you listen to him and agree with him, yet everything else you do and say is the opposite of what Mearsheimer says. Perhaps it is his low-key way of raising alarm, which is half a function of his position in society as an academic, and half his personality. Just cause he doesn't run around like his hair is on fire, is no reason for you to ignore his message - that we're going to hell because of your taxpayer support for Ukrainian Nazis. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:42, March 2, 2023 (EST)
Steve Turley is another one you cite all the time, but never listen to. Putin warns NATO to back off or risk ‘catastrophic consequences’. You think Putin is just running off at the mouth, or is Steve Turley just yanking your chain? RobSGive Peace a chance 21:50, March 2, 2023 (EST)
So right there, if you listened to what Turley said in that video (and others before), he just shot your "[[Essay: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future]]" in the butt. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:27, March 2, 2023 (EST)
Entrenched Mentalities. I think the author wrote this with you in mind. RobSGive Peace a chance 02:50, March 3, 2023 (EST)

If the USA cut off support for corrupt and authoritarian country of Ukraine, that would be a good thing. Maybe the national debt caused by a potential Great Depression 2.0 will not be as severe. Whatever happens during this war, it will not alter the bleak future that Russia and Ukraine will probably have due to their multiple problems which their societies are disinterested and/or are not motivated enough to fix.

John Mearsheimer believes that before the war in Ukraine Russia did not have big imperial ambitions that included eventually attacking NATO countries and that the USA baited the Russian bear by talking about Ukraine/Georgia joining NATO. As far as Russia not having imperial ambitions that involved attacking NATO nations, he is probably right, but who knows? Peter Zeihan believes Putin has imperial ambitions that involve taking over Ukraine and then attacking some of the NATO countries that historically were areas that countries went through to attack Russia (Zeihan believes that Russia wants to take over some of the lands around Russia.[9]).

The historian Stephen Kotkin, who is knowledgeable about Russia and authoritarian regimes, says it is often unknowable what dictatorial/authoritarian leader intends to do and even close associates don't know what the leader intends to do. And Kotkin says that often the leader doesn't know himself what he is going to do next. He also indicates Putin keeps his cards close to his chest.[10] Kotkin is in favor of arming Ukraine and forcing Putin to the bargaining table by threatening his regime and that shaving up off some points of his GDP is not enough.[11] Kotkin also said that the longer the war in Ukraine lasts, the more resources that cannot be used to help defend Taiwan.[12]

I believe that the Biden Administration is incompetent and somewhat aggressive as far as their international/military policy (Less aggressive than G.W. Bush, but more aggressive than Donald Trump), but the Republicans might decide to lessen and perhaps eventually stop the flow of funds of money to Ukraine.

In the USA, the most recent poll data indicates: "Overall, public support for Ukraine aid has fallen from 60 percent last May to 48 percent now according to surveys by The Associated Press-NORC Center for +Public Affairs Research. The share of Americans who think the United States has given too much to Ukraine has grown from 7 percent a year ago to 26 percent in January, according to the Pew Research Center. And even supporters make clear their commitment is not without bounds. While 50 percent of those surveyed by Fox News said American support should continue for “as long as it takes to win,” 46 percent said the time frame should be limited.that support for Ukraine is now at 48% of Americans" (see: SUPPORT EBBING FOR KYIV’S FIGHT AS MONEY FLOWS). I believe that the more this war drags on and the more USA taxpayer money flows to Ukraine, the more Americans will experience Ukraine fatigue. And I don't believe that Europe has the ability or desire/willpower to push the Russians out of Ukraine.

I don't pretend to know how the conflict in Ukraine will pan out, but I hope the conflict ends as soon as possible. Both Mearsheimer/Zeihan believes that the odds favor Russia in winning the war in Ukraine and I tend to agree with them about Russia having the upper hand. Mearsheimer is more a dove towards Russian than Zeihan. Kotkin admits he doesn't know how it will end. At this point, the prediction market data indicates that Republicans have about a 6.5% better chance of winning the presidency in 2024.[13] Who wins the presidency in 2024 will definitely have an impact on Russian/USA relations. What happens in the war in Ukraine and the USA economy are likely going to be a very determining factors of who becomes the next president of the USA, but these two things are hard to predict - especially the economy. And how the USA economy is doing is probably going to be the most decisive factor of who wins the presidency in 2024.

With that being said, my interest in the war in Ukraine has waned. So I am not going to discuss this matter more with you. Conservative (talk) 05:56, March 3, 2023 (EST)

Great Depression 2.0 = fall of the Petrodollar
Zeihan, Kotkin, et sq = NATO propaganda.
RobSGive Peace a chance 06:46, March 3, 2023 (EST)
You need to learn how to discern propaganda. For example, the Washington Free Beacon, ordinarily considered a conservative or Republican source, and an excellent one at that, has this headline this morning: Biden’s Self-Defeating Ukraine Strategy, - a seemingly anti-war statement - until you read the subheadline, Restricting weapons to Ukraine gives Russia and China the advantage. More NATO Nazi scare tactics.
Remember, it was the Free Beacon that first hired FusionGPS to dig up dirt on Trump before the primaries, but failed (i.e., Steele tried to peddle his Trump-Russia scheme to them but the editors saw Steel had no evidence or merit, so they cut him loose after Trump won the primaries. They weren't in the business of taking down Trump at all costs). But "restricting weapons to Ukraine gives Russia and China the advantage" clearly puts the chief editor in the "more for Ukraine" camp. Free Beacon is one of the few conservative Republican sources I did not unsubscribe from when the chips were down and they started spewing Russophobic propaganda. I know their reach and influence, and what they say is often repeated and expanded upon with further investigations by other conservative Republican publications. Their influence in domestic politics is unrivalled. In foreign policy, their reporting on China is excellent. But as far as Russia, NATO, and Ukraine, they are slaves of the Angelo-American Transatlantic alliance Deep State Uniparty and all its demonic spawns.
So this is one pro-war, neo-Nazi, Russophobic source I will still listen to, if only to keep an eye on what other conservative Republicans will be saying tomorrow. RobSGive Peace a chance 07:58, March 3, 2023 (EST)
Propaganda update: Ukraine, Russia, China, and Dealing With Crazy People, March 2, 2023 by Yves Smith, Yves Smith is the owner of the site. RobSGive Peace a chance 09:06, March 3, 2023 (EST)
Yves Smith summarizes the work of Brian Berletic, Dima at Military Summary, Big Serge, and MacGregor in this article. So unless or until you start coming up with sources of the caliber of those guys, or start following them, I'm not really interested anymore in discussing neo-Nazi Russophobic talking points (I've been debating and discussing them since I first heard the name "Solzhenitsyn" in 1974) anymore. Sources like Zeihan of Kotkin I have in mind right now. RobSGive Peace a chance 09:18, March 3, 2023 (EST)
If you want to hold or be influences by the views of people like Zlotkin or Keinan, go ahead, but please stop filling discussions with me with that neo-Nazi crap. You're spinning your wheels and wasting my time. I'm not going to review their hate speech or answer anything about them or their twisted views. RobSGive Peace a chance 09:23, March 3, 2023 (EST)
This guy would be a good source to begin following Propaganda As A Part Of Technique. He launched his substack 5 days ago, and I think I was his 7 follower. He lives in Russia for 20 years and is fluent in Russian. RobSGive Peace a chance 10:21, March 3, 2023 (EST)

Is there any reason the Ovarit page was deleted other than being written by that Russian user? I thought it was interesting how they emerged as a response to Reddit's draconian banning of r/GenderCritical --SingleChristian1 (talk) 16:22, March 8, 2023 (EST)

It was part of a mass delete of a troll. That article itself, as is, was an uncategoriged orphaned stub that would need to be overhauled. It would be easier to start it from scratch. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:30, March 8, 2023 (EST)

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