Talk:Main Page/archive 98

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a little humor --- treason!!!

An attempt at humor was put on this page, once by a certain "George Hanover" (King George the third was of the house of Hanover), and once by a certain "George III". They were both reverted, apparently on technical grounds. I think we can afford to lighten up a bit. While humor is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone might think it's funny, I thought it was humorous to have a certain former king complaining about the outrageous act of sedition, insurrection, rebellion, and treason that we celebrate tomorrow. So, let's hear it for George III's "conservative values"! Even though we think Thomas Jefferson's conservative values were more authentic.

Is wilful rebellion against your lawful (and divinely ordained) sovereign a conservative value? The true conservative would try and rejoin the British Empire.

SamHB 00:15, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

I just got back from the Boston Esplanade

600,000 people. The doctor says my hearing should come back in a few days :-)

The second day of July, 1776 [the day the vote was taken; the declaration was officially approved on the 4th; Mr. Adams incorrectly guessed which date would become the famous one], will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations [18th century term for fireworks!!], from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forevermore. -- John Adams

SamHB 01:19, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for mentioning the Boston Esplanade - we could use a first-person account of in a new entry for it! Thanks also for the history, with the notable reference to God Almighty.--Andy Schlafly 11:22, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Nuclear scientist embraces Creationism

Real scientists embrace embrace biblical creation and not evolutionary pseudoscience

1) Embrace is repeated. 2) Biblical Creation - is it correct like this, or should it be capitalized? I'm not sure! 3) Exactly which point are you trying to make? Are you saying that a) All those scientists who do not embrace Creationism are not real scientists? OR b) that the majority of scientists are Creationist? or c) is it an exhortation to scientists to have the bravery to embrace Creationism even if it's against the mainstream, as this one did? It's not clear :) --Leo-from-UK 08:01, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for catching the typo, which has been fixed. As to your other points, readers are free to draw their own conclusions.--Andy Schlafly 11:17, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Jobless Claims in New York/California

Maybe I'm not understanding the news story properly, but shouldn't it read, "look at BLUE colored states - New York and California - " or something like that? Right now it says New York and California are red colored states, which (in addition to being inaccurate, since those are fairly liberal states by population) seems to go against the purpose of the news story, which should say red (Republican) states have a better job environment. Maybe I'm not understanding it, but it seems like it should read "blue states" rather than "red states." Jpope1487 16:21, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

No, look at the map given. conservative 16:30, 5 July 2011 (EDT)
Even with the map given, it doesn't look good for anyone. Jobs are still fleeing the south even though they embrace conservative causes. Also, the biggest gainers in jobs are Florida, which is very liberal in many ways, and Ohio, who's freshly elected Republican Governor and legislators haven't been in office long enough to attribute the gains to them.
Also, NYC is the big liberal part of NY state. A large portion of the rest of the state is pretty conservative, and is also where mos of the job loss has been happening.
I really wish that the map did show that conservative values lead to job creation. However the article quoted isn't very solid and doesn't prove much of anything.--MrLCharms 16:41, 5 July 2011 (EDT)
Ah, okay. I thought the reference to "red" was in regards to the general political orientation of the two states, not in regards to their job loss rates. It makes sense now. Thanks. =) Jpope1487 17:00, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Mr. Charms, not true. North Dakota does not have a big unemployment problem for example.[1] Evidently, North Dakota Lutherans are still smarter than Oregon atheists. :) Second, the unemployment rate for higher income earners is not bad.[2] If you develop your skills right and have multiple streams of income, the global recession hasn't hurt you badly so far.[3] When the going gets tough, the tough get going! Wimpy liberal momma's boys who cling their Obama blankies haven't figured that out yet though. :) conservative 17:14, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Mr. Charms, I would also point out that if you read the Conservapedia John Kasich article you will find out he is a RINO when it comes to economics. I don't have much hope that good things are going to happen in Ohio as I feel they are still going in the wrong direction. conservative 17:30, 5 July 2011 (EDT)
Also, look at this enterprising lady with her multiple streams of income - she says she has a 6 figure income! :) [4] With her industrious attitude that she apparently has, she puts wimpy liberal effete men clinging to their Obama blankies to shame. :) Every liberal slacker needs to read Proverbs 31 and develop a Protestant work ethic. :) conservative 17:50, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Casey Anthony

From a friend's facebook: "The verdict in the Casey Anthony trial is consistent with the laws in this country that allow a mother to kill their unwanted children, except this child was a bit older than most of the rest of the victims. Where is the outrage over the injustice for the 50,000,000 other victims?" Perhaps we can incorporate this take on it somewhat into the Main Page news feed? Gregkochuconn 18:21, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Apples to oranges. TerryB 18:36, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Birth certificate issue is not going to come to anything, the economy is going to be the issue

Obama's approval is about 80% with Democrats - they seem to be committed to him despite his lackluster performance. I don't see moderates being interested in the birth certificate issue nor do I see state legislators or courts interested in the issue anymore. Conservatives are not likely to dislike Obama more with more discussion of the birth certificate issue. Google trends would seem to indicate there was a spike of interest, but now there is little interest in this topic: Also, Alexa doesn't show any growth in WorldNetDaily readers: Sometimes you have to take pet political issues to the vet and have them put to sleep. Unless someone can show me that Jerome Corsi's book currently has brisk sales at Amazon, I see the economy as the central issue in terms of Obama's electability just like it was for Jimmy Carter. Not sure how to look at the current popularity of Amazon books. conservative 16:45, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

I think committed conservatives should spend more time making their websites stronger and developing new conservative websites like TerryH is doing to get their message out there more, not spinning their wheels with the birth certificate issue that the public no longer has much interest in. conservative 16:52, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
Certainly the long-term benefit is in building conservative foundations, as illustrated by Essay:Best New Conservative Words. But the proof that a key signature on the birth certificate was computer-generated is startling. If Obama were Ronald Reagan, then this discovery would be all over the lamestream media.--Andy Schlafly 17:36, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
"...the proof that a key signature on the birth certificate was computer-generated is startling." WND has reported on a number of these proofs since the certificate was released, and yet, aside from a few dedicated websites, these proofs have made little impact in the media, including Fox News, which, for all its faults, cannot be counted as pro-Obama or pro-Democrat in any way. Why do you think that is, Andy? DavidHRG 17:40, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
The problem with the most recent assertion is the differences of the first a and the second a in Obama shows that it was not a "Perfect" signature like the "software engineer" says it to be.--Harrymd 17:54, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
Clearly if the President of the United States faked an official document is an important issue and shouldn't can't be ignored. --BradleyS 18:42, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
Message to birth certificate diehards: You think the voting block of moderate nerds who are interested in digital document reproduction is a large voting block? You have another thing coming! It's not! Move on! It is a dry subject that the public is not going to gain interest in again no matter how hard you try. You think the American public is going to become interested in the finer points of Constitutional Law and develop an interest in exactly who is a natural born citizen? The same American public whose knowledge of history is poor? Stop fooling yourselves and focus your efforts on things that will gain some political traction. conservative 18:38, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

"Clearly if the President of the United States faked an official document is an important issue and shouldn't can't be ignored...." And yet it is, Bradley, even though WND has published several alleged "proofs" of the fake nature of the document in question. Either WND is wrong, or the entire American media establishment, including anti-Obama outlets like Fox News and the Washington Times, are complicit in not reporting an "obvious forgery." Which is it? That was my question for Aschlafly. DavidHRG 19:39, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

It's a legit issue but not for his removal from office. Three years to release his Long Form, it will be three more years to get it verified. This will be proven after he left office and if a fake, it should be enough to invalidate any and all egregious acts he set in motion:banking/health/intelligence/environment/autos/military/ etc. --Jpatt 21:18, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
As Jpatt says, it's undeniably a legitimate issue. Surely no one thinks that a self-serving document released by the president must somehow, automatically, be legitimate. That would be the epitome of a liberal double standard!
As to how Fox News has long been out to lunch on this issue, maybe that's a reason its ratings declined when they should have increased!
As to the statement above that the "a" after the "b" is different from the "a" after the "m", even a crude computer-generated signature would do that, because the letter "a" starts in a different place depending on which letter comes before it.--Andy Schlafly 21:26, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
I haven't looked at the digital image software and handwriting issues so I have no comment on that. The reason I haven't looked at the issue is that I don't think it is ever going to have any relevance in my life or the lives of many others. I already don't trust Obama so it has no relevance there. I also am confident it is never going to gain any traction. The conservative press is divided and it is a technical issue that I don't think is going to grab the public's attention. In addition, I think the economy is going to get worse and probably prevent Obama from getting re-elected anyways. It could easily get significantly worse before 2011 unless Ben Bernanke tries to delay the inevitable through some extreme measures but it seems like he doesn't have many or any bullets left to fire since inflation is starting to rear its head. conservative 00:18, 7 July 2011 (EDT)
Having worked a bit myself with document analysis in musicology, I've learned the dangers of such cases. Namely, if you really, really want to see something in a source, you can find it even if it's not really there; to avoid this pitfall, you have to apply rigid scientific standards and a clear methodology, cross reference your findings with other known facts and sources, and incorporate a multitude of professional opinions, even ones which disagree with yours. There are no slam dunks in this field, only reasonable hypotheses balanced against less-reasonable hypotheses. Here then are three major reasons why I'm suspicious about WND's "proofs" that the document is fake.
  1. First of all, Jerome Corsi (and WND, his publisher) have a substantial financial incentive to prove the document a fake, since he was about to publish a book before the long form was released; if he doesn't "prove" that he's correct, his book is immediately obsolete. WND's claims must be taken with requisite caution.
  2. Second of all, when only one media organization among many claims to possess the truth, and others, not even other conservative media, do not take their claims seriously, you have a good reason to doubt the solidity of their case.
  3. Most importantly, WND's entire case hinges on what is essentially a single source, a low-quality PDF document, from which various anonymous Youtube uploaders have divined damning "evidence" that the document is a forgery and are the sole individuals to understand how unequivocally these imperfections prove their claims (see point 2 above). WND's page merely throws together several random observations about the PDF, arguments which at first glance seem sophisticated but do not withstand closer scrutiny. They have not examined the original document, have not really spelled out the methodology of their examination, if you can even call it that, and have not cross-referenced their findings with equally probing examinations of similar documents. Rather than building a logical case, which they would require more than just one source to do, they satisfy themselves with a "throw everything on the wall and see what sticks" expose. While they do assemble quotes from people they call experts, by which they mean people who have worked in various capacities in printing and graphic design, it's clear from the vague nature of what these people say that WND did not run any specific claims by them, rather merely assembled a couple of general quotes from several random sources, some of whom have an obvious political axe to grind and none of whom is an actual expert in document verification. This is pure amateur hour, not serious investigative journalism.
I'd have to agree with Conservative. There are plenty of good reasons to oppose Obama, and the vast majority of the country has moved past this controversy. You're not going to win any voters to the conservative cause by beating this dead horse until next November. Obama's a citizen and a fully-eligible president who was legitimately elected; none of this has any bearing on the wretched domestic economy or the precarious international situation. JDWpianist 08:24, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

Clinton fundraiser gets probation in coverup

Quick correction: "No farther comment needed." Should be 'further.' MBell Matt

Caylee's Law

Caylee's Law has nothing to do with Caylee Anthony's murder, but is actually about the length of time between a child's disappearance and it being reported to authorities. It took almost a month for the Anthony family to report Caylee missing. As I live in Orlando, I certainly don't have a problem with the law. It's a good thing, so we really shouldn't complain about it. SharonW 16:59, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

The law makes it a felony to not report the death of a child to the government within 24 hours and a missing child within a slightly longer timeline. Personally that sounds a bit excessive and intrusive. Casey Anthony aside, this law would open the door to abusive prosecutions of grieving parents, it would be a "gotcha" charge for when the state lacks sufficient evidence to prove murder or foul play, but the DA "feels" like the person is guilty and wants to tack on jail time. DenisTR 17:49, 7 July 2011 (EDT)
Well put. In most cases, such a law would amount to another liberal example of "blame the victim" -- often a well-intentioned parent. When parents are in nasty divorces, it could become yet another tool for one ex-spouse to blame the other for, even when the child simply ran away for a while. Why can't legislatures simply pass a good pro-life law to promote some basic respect for life?--Andy Schlafly 19:07, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

Marriage day anti-secular protest in Australia

This may be of interest -

Regarding this quote...

"but it's kind of preposterous to say that we should be giving a platform to people whose views we fundamentally disagree with." I hate to sound like an over-reactionary liberal, but isn't this sort of quote contrary to the very idea of freedom of speech upon which this country was built? I understand that the person in question disagrees with the state representative discussed in the article, but it seems to me like putting this statement where it is on the front page is endorsing this sort of viewpoint; and this sort of viewpoint is exactly the cause of the partisan hackery that has stagnated our political discourse over the past decade. No matter how vile we find someone's position to be, we trust that the people of our great country will recognize their deceit and lies for what they are, rather than forcibly prevent them from expressing their opinion. That's how freedom works, right? Jpope1487 20:51, 8 July 2011 (EDT)

Not at all. The quote is from Monsignor Kieran Harrington, referring to the return of the check. He's saying that it's "preposterous" that the Catholic Church would want support from someone with whom they disagree. And I think they're right: freedom of speech is in place to protect religion from government interference. If you force the Catholic Church to take his money, before you know it, they'll be forced to perform Homosexual marriages and maybe next they'll have to "balance" Mass with sermons from Imams and lectures from Richard Dawkins. No. This was right and the essence of freedom. --FergusE 19:39, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Response to the Star Ledger

I would have thought Conservapedia would have had a more reserved, or dignified, response to the article in the Star Ledger than "na-na-nana-na we're bigger than you are!" By all means, refute the allegations, but to resort to what amounts to childish name calling, is sad. Then again, given the author of the reply, one can understand why it is childish name calling - that is what he thinks is intellectual debate. TracyS 11:11, 10 July 2011 (EDT)

Also "Boys generally will not ask out a girl who does better than a boy on a test" - I have to ask the question, Mr. Schlafly - just how insecure are the boys in your class, if higher marks intimidate them thus? TracyS 11:18, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
Tracy, I don't agree with your characterization of the comments by another editor, or your criticism of him. The Newark Star-Ledger has a right to free speech, and so do contributors here.
As to my observation about the male ego, I don't think it is a new phenomenon.--Andy Schlafly 11:48, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
Thank you for removing the comments though! I agree with you about the ego, but you seem to use that as a case for setting different exams. Boys' egos and dating preferences hardly seems a fair basis for judging intellectual performance. TracyS 11:52, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
My classes have lots of students, and there is plenty of competition -- and bases for judging academic performance -- within the genders. Adding competition between the genders is counterproductive. Increasingly even some public schools are going to entire single-gender classes, sometimes even teaching them different material as well as giving different tests.--Andy Schlafly 11:56, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
TracyS, the Bible says answer a fool as his folly deserves. For example, where in the Atheism and obesity article did I say "atheists tend to be fat". I merely presented survey data, medical journal data and other data and let people form their own conclusions. If Ms. O'Connor can't even quote her sources with clarity and preciseness and she is a reporter, then why isn't it fair to point out deficiencies in their newspaper's quality and the large decline in their newspaper's online blog readership according to web traffic tracking companies I cited? There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding newspapers accountable and showing their readers how dismal their journalistic standards are and potential consequences they incurred as a result. If their newspaper wants to act like ideological bully instead of a newspaper with a modicum of objectivity, then I think they are asking for a comeuppance and I have no reticence in supplying it. While I realize that on a large wiki people have different ideas and I personally don't agree with all of Conservapedia's content, I do think the reporter Julie O'Connor could have done a much better job as far as the story. Of course, she supplies content for a newspaper blog with declining readership (according to the web traffic companies I cited) and not the Wall Street Journal so I am not entirely surprised. Oh, there I go again showing contempt for a reporter who did a poor job. Conservative 13:56, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
And by saying "Ya boo! Your readership is declining!" would you say that that is even vaguely an adult response? Yes, she did a terrible job in the article, using Conservapedia to try and prove a point, but your response certainly didn't help improve Conservapedia's image with the listeners. Sometimes a dignified silence is the best response. "We're bigger than you are! Na-na-nan-na!" will never be an adequate, nor adult response. TracyS 10:52, 11 July 2011 (EDT)
It does appear that Conservapedia may not be receiving a large influx of traffic from even curiosity seekers and I think it is because the NJ newspaper blog in question has such a low readership. So Julie O'Connor's abysmal journalism seems to have a silver lining in that it is rather impotent in terms of its reach. Personally, I think the next 5 years will show liberalism financially imploding and being gutted in terms of its reach. For example, there has been a huge decline in newspaper workers as can be seen HERE and given the lack of journalism excellence I see in Julie O'Connor's work, I would not be surprised if Ms. O'Connor was no longer working in the newspaper business in the coming years. Conservative 14:18, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
I agree though the Star Ledger article seem to have an uneven agenda, but there may be a modicum of truth in there. This site does devote a "lot" of posts to obesity and linking it to liberalism and atheism. The site also devotes one too many posts on the Obama birth certificate-validity issues, which also conservative (user) agrees. The site does a good job at times in pointing out stories of interest (today's Atlanta public schools) was an interesting read. Custer 18:29, 10 July (EDT)

Cambridge MA discriminates against straight married people

In case you needed any more proof that liberals hate the traditional family, Cambridge, MA has started paying homosexuals more than straight people just for being homosexuals. --FergusE 19:45, 10 July 2011 (EDT)

The Romney-Obama Poll

Conservative and AndyS., you guys need to take in the perspective that Romney, while is not the most conservative of politicans, actually has the best chance to beat Obama. Bachmann is not strong enough against Obama, Palin is too polarizing. Tim Palwenty. from Minnesota---not well known enough. Let's face it he's the best chance. Custer 10 July 2011 22:18 EDT

I think the presidential race is still fluid on the Republican side and new candidates may still come into the race. Also, there is a lot going on economically so you have to add that into the mix as well. Conservative 03:11, 11 July 2011 (EDT)
If you look at these Townhall Straw Poll results you will see that Bachmann is gaining popularity while Romney is losing it. Rick Perry is my personal favorite candidate, and he is quickly gaining support. I particularly like him for his stance on illegal immigration and his public displays of Christian faith. I don't care what liberal whiners like the ADL, which by the way is more atheist than Jewish IMO, are saying. MeganH 22:28, 11 July 2011 (EDT)


I don't know if that should be put up, because.... well he shot the robber after he had clearly neutralized the threat. Five times too. I'm not saying Casey Anthony wasn't an injustice, but this trial had clear evidence according to the article. Maybe he shouldn't have deserved the punishment he received, but he does deserve some punishment.--Harrymd 10:25, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

"A security camera then caught him go behind the counter, grab another gun, and shoot the wounded teen five more times as he lay unconscious" That's no longer self-defence; that's murder. WilliamB1 13:45, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
Bah, I don't think the teen would have amounted to anything more than a thug anyway. TerryB 19:12, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
If that is your argument, I am hoping you are not a member of the judiciary. WilliamB1 20:09, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
That's... horrible logic to follow. --SeanS 20:16, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
The law says deadly force is allowed by citizens to protect life and not property. Since he apparently shot him in the head already and he was lying unconscious on the floor, the jury in this conservative and gun friendly state thought he used excessive force and the 5 extra shots were unwarranted and deserved punishment. My guess is that his prior service to the community as a pharmacist and the fact that it was an armed robbery with two gunman, will be taken into account as far as sentencing and the possibility of parole/probation. Conservative 20:28, 12 July 2011 (EDT)


Self-defense only goes so far, when they cant fight back, thats when it stops being SD. being a good person prior to this should make the punishment harsher because its so out of character. --SeanS 20:30, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
In response to one comment above, he has already been sentenced to life in jail. As to another comment above, the traditional doctrine of self-defense did not impose an obligation to retreat, and I would be surprised if an Englishman who killed an armed intruder in such a manner several hundred years ago could have been convicted of murder.--Andy Schlafly 20:48, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
Whay Whay. One less POS to worry about. Just think if this guy (the robber) was successful and got away and lived. He may have committed another armed robbery and actually killed someone. Its a preemptive strike. All this bleeding heart drivel. Custer 21:55, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
As a Christian, I have to look at this from the perspective of salvation. After all, even a robber dying on the cross can be saved, and I think it is always a grievous thing when someone dies mired in sin. On the other hand, I can't imagine punishing someone so severely given the circumstances. At most, the pharmacist overreacted in a life-or-death situation, during which he was likely both frightened and outraged. Should he be accountable for his actions? Of course, as we all are. Did the punishment fit those actions? In my opinion, absolutely not. --Benp 22:25, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
Good points, and I agree about salvation, but even a casual viewer of crime shows sees many examples of people playing possum and later getting up. Put another way, lots of times cops kill armed criminals, and an untrained citizen can be hardly expected to take the pulse of an armed assailant.--Andy Schlafly 22:34, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
I completely agree. The pharmacist said that he thought the assailant was getting up, and although the camera showed no movement, I don't think that means we can discount his perception. Being afraid for one's life is likely to make one see things a bit differently. Personally, I would have been inclined to take the man at his word, but perhaps the jury saw evidence that I have not. In any case, I don't think I could have voted to send a man to jail for life when he was the one attacked in the first place. --Benp 22:40, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
What the Oklahoman pharmacist did was very similar to what Bernhard Goetz did in New York City decades ago - and New Yorkers refused even to indict him for the shooting.--Andy Schlafly 23:51, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

COCOTV posted the full raw interrogation tapes on YouTube, they're free for anyone to view. The 3rd of these videos shows the pharmacist talking about the events, and his recounting of the story does not match up with the events depicted on the video. He claims he obtained both guns prior to shooting, that there was a heavy shoot out, because they were shooting at him, that after chasing the one out of the store that he was afraid to pass by the one that was unconscious on the floor, and if he did, he would be dead, because the guy was still up and struggling. However, on the video it is clear that he did in fact walk past the unconscious robber, and then got his second gun from the drawer. If the pharmacist were in fact in fear for his life, he would not have walked passed the robber lying on the floor. Clearly, the robber was unconscious, not moving, and there was no fear that he might get back up. If you had fears that he might get back up, take his gun.

While it is true that self defense doesn't typically hold to a duty to retreat, in modern US law (thanks liberals!), some states do actually have a duty to retreat in some circumstances. And "duty to retreat" has nothing to do with exceeding the force necessary to stop the threat. If your assailant is unconscious there is no need for further force to stop the attack, so self defense stops being applicable. This is all over self-defense case law. Arguing that this should be acceptable self-defense is perfectly reasonable, but it remains contrary to the condition in US law that self defense cannot exceed the force necessary to stop the attack. --RahamatAllahi 01:10, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

We are not arguing over law in this case, as the pharmacist has already been arrested. They are arguing about whether it was morally and logically right to do so. NickP 21:58, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
It is a life sentence but with the possibility of parole.[5] My guess is that a pharmacist is not going to act up in jail and that a pharmacist with a clean record is going to be sympathetic to a parole board. He is not a young man though so I don't how much that will help. But maybe a parole board will be more sympathetic to an older man figuring he is not going to cause future trouble . Probably, his best bet is to get a governor to commute his sentence or maybe with state budgets being pressed he maybe released earlier due to changes in policy. I do think some changes need to be made in American society in how people behave and are sentenced since the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world if not the highest. Conservative 09:37, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Project Gunwalker

The Department of Justice was running guns into Honduras eight months ago, as well as into Mexico. It's beginning to add up to an attempt to justify another United Nations attack on the sovereignty of the United States.[6]

As Hot Air noted, "...before Congressional investigators, Kenneth Melson, acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), revealed important new details of Operation Fast and Furious..." ...the post-testimony fallout...:

  • The ATF isn’t the only agency to bear some responsibility for the botched operation that sent guns to Mexico. The Federal Bureau of Investigations and the Drug Enforcement Agency seem to have possessed information that could have had a material impact on Fast and Furious (i.e. info that could have eliminated or reduced the ostensible ‘need’ for the operation in the first place). Or, as the letter puts it, “We have very real indications from several sources that some of the gun trafficking ‘higher-ups’ that the ATF sought to identify were already known to other agencies and may even have been paid as informants.”
  • Taxpayer money was likely used to finance the gunrunning. “The evidence we have gathered raises the disturbing possibility that the Justice Department not only allowed criminals to smuggle weapons but that taxpayer dollars from other agencies may have financed those engaging in such activities.”
  • Senior ATF officials would have preferred to cooperate with Congressional inquiries — but “Department of Justice officials directed them not to respond and took full control of replying to briefing and document requests from Congress.”
  • Melson was at no point asked to resign.

I'm just going to mention Eric Holder's name in the same sentence as a discussion about Project Gunwalker. More on Project Gunwalker:

DerekE 00:40, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

I started the stub Fast and Furious. There is tons of info coming up daily. --Jpatt 12:09, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

Please upload

I need these photos uploaded for articles I'm planning. Martha Jefferson Randolph Dolley Madison Elizabeth Monroe Louisa Adams Rachel Jackson Emily Donelson Hannah Van Buren Angelica Van Buren Letitia Tyler Julia Tyler Anna Harrison and Jane Harrison Rosalynn Carter Barbara Bush

Thanks! SharonW 17:20, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

I did the 5 public domain ones. See my message on your talk page. Conservative 03:11, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Deadbeat maxes out on his credit card and then gets his credit score cut.

Then he went to his employer demanding a raise. When he didn't get that, he stormed out and then he went and stole a purse from an elderly couple.

Did I get this week's news correct?

HP 19:59, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

We have a no cursing policy on here, which I'll abide by, however tough it is. But if this doesn't tick you off, well ...

Petulant Teleprompter in Chief Walks Outs

HP 20:13, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

CNN Obama has meltdown

Rupert Murdock (sic) and phone hacking

Are you seriously implying that hacking into the phones of murdered children, grieving parents and victims of the 7/7 and 9/11 Islamicist attacks (not to mention various public figures) is anything other than an enormous scandal? News Corp found it sufficiently serious to close down one of the few newspapers in Britain that still made any money. There is cross-party revulsion at activities of these "journalists". Oh, and you spelt "Murdoch" wrongly. --Jdixon 14:26, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

We have higher standards in the United States than in England for what qualifies as news.--Andy Schlafly 16:50, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
That a major newspaper was allegedly involved in a number of illegal activities (most notably hacking people's phones and paying police officers for information) should be news by anyone's standards. This site has frequently reported on the decreasing circulation of certain newspapers and so I find it odd that the fact that a media empire is facing investigation on an international scale for illegal activities is not considered newsworthy. Not only are the activities in question illegal, but their consequences in certain cases have been even appalling.
Nor is this limited to the one, now closed, newspaper. Other Murdoch owned titles are under investigation, and the issue is not confined solely to the UK either, especially as it has been alleged that a former New York police officer was offered money to provide the numbers of 9/11 victims so that their voicemails could be hacked. On top of that, News International is a subsidiary of the US News Corporation, owned by an American citizen. This is not an issue of political ideology, it is a question of ethics within the media industry and should not be brushed aside simply because the media company in question or its owner are deemed to be conservative. Would you not consider it worthy of reporting were the media outlets in question 'liberal'? WilliamB1 18:52, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
I agree with WilliamB1 and Jdixon (although to clarify, Mr. Murdoch is an Australian citizen, not an American). If this scandal only involved the UK, I'd give it a passing glance and go on with other things. But the fact that Americans were allegedly targets of their phone hacking makes it a legitimate news story. Mr. Murdoch's News Corporation is based in the United States as well, so if some of the allegations turn out to be true, he may have to face charges from the United States government, in addition to the UK. I don't mind going ahead and starting a fair article here regarding the scandal thus far. It's important to note that as of yet, the allegations have yet to have been proven in court, and there is no evidence as of yet that Mr. Murdoch is solely responsible for the alleged activities that took place (although several employees plead guilty to hacking voicemails back in 2006). --MarkN85 20:53, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Whatever Rupert Murdoch's ideology - and its a topic that bears lengthy consideration - the newspaper involved, the News of the World, and its sister paper, The Sun, have no place in a God fearing home - sex, celebrity news, topless women recounting their affairs with sportsmen, more sex. I don't even want to post a link here! Rafael

Just to clarify: Murdoch, while born in Australia, is now a US citizen. WilliamB1 22:11, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

The people that think the story is shocking fail to realize that America is buried in Obamunism, regulations, lawsuits and scandals. We have troops in three Muslim countries. We have unemployment, debt talks, right to work controversy, illegal immigration controversy, high gas prices, quantitative easing by the Fed, high food prices, a housing crisis, a White House breaking laws, etc. Just how does Murdoch trump all that? He doesn't and the liberal media doesn't have the clout to make Americans care.--Jpatt 22:17, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

You beat me to the same clarification, William. I'm not sure if Rupert still retains dual nationality, but he is very definitely a US citizen now. Patt, none of those serious issues make -- for example -- hacking the phone of a fallen UK soldier's family any the less "shocking". Those soldiers were also killed while serving in the three "Muslim countries" you reference. The ideological position of Murdoch's papers does not lessen the offense in any way. ----Jdixon 10:21, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

Liberals love this because they get to pile on Fox News and Newscorp. There have been lots of other hacking scandals lately: The Pentagon got hacked, probably by the Chinese but instead the lamestream media continues to pile on NOTW getting hacked. Fox and Friends covered this nicely. --FergusE 21:51, 17 July 2011 (EDT)

Possible liberal smear news item

I don't have a unifying link but there's been quite a few jokes in the blogosphere and among comedians about Michelle Bachmann's husband being a closeted homosexual. This would be quite relevant to Conservapedia's Liberal Smear Machine article and fits the In the News section's theme of reporting on things the mainstream media avoids or reports on inaccurately.--CamilleT 15:35, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Nope, that's too pathetic even to post.--Andy Schlafly 16:49, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Absolutely agree with Andy. Liberals spin all sorts of half-baked conspiracy theories online, but there's a big difference between know-nothing wannabe liberal bloggers running their mouths and the slick professional character assassins of the liberal spin machine, who pose a very real and credible threat to conservatives of good conscience trying to do the will of the people. The liberal spin machine needs to be highlighted and confronted; the best thing you can do with the nattering nabobs of the Net is ignore them. --Benp 09:50, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
John Steward and Jerry Seinfield outright calling him a homosexual on The Daily Show are not part of the professional liberal spin machine? Rather, I think the attacks are immature, and worthless to respond to, it only gives them credit. It's not that the instigators are insignificant. --RahamatAllahi 10:27, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Do I understand this correctly? Liberals want to smear somebody for being a homosexual? Why that's outrageous. Rob Smith 21:58, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
My understanding is that they want to smear him for being homosexual while saying that homosexuality is wrong. Like how they attacked Ted Haggard and George Alan Rekers. I would expect the APA to come in and investigate Marcus Bachmann's practice as well, since it is their policy that reparative therapy is unethical. --RahamatAllahi 07:46, 17 July 2011 (EDT)

Heretic Pelosi says Obama has way more patience than Job

PBS NewsHour

Just scroll down to Pelosi's quote. I'm not at all surprised the lamestream media is not covering this. HP 23:25, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Fox Nation HP 23:28, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Cooler weather

You mention that because it was a bit colder in Orange County (a point you've raised before on the Main Page), whilst you manage to overlook the mention of the word "unseasonably". In addition, the article you site states "Cooler than normal today, then a warmup." One day's weather does not a climate make, to abuse a proverb. And even if it did, let's assume that cold weather in one county, proves that the earth is getting colder. What then would the following headlines prove?

One could ask why Conservapedia has not been reporting on the nationwide heatwave, but rather on the cooler weather in Orange County? TracyS 10:18, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

This is clearly a rhetorical question trying to goad responses out of other users. There is no point in trying to promote the theory of Global warming by listing hot events. As you can see on the page on Global warming, the theory is false and your antics are not appreciated here. If you want to push your Liberal agenda do so elsewhere.--MRellek 19:44, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
The lamestream media finally woke up to how reports of cooler weather disprove claims of a crisis of global warming, so now the media report only on heat waves and are silent about the numerous examples of cooler-than-predicted weather. Notice how cool the summer has been overall.--Andy Schlafly 22:02, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Please can you provide examples of this cooler summer, outside of Orange County's one day of cooler weather. There must be figures comparing average temperatures month by month over the years - please publish figures from the US Weather Service to back up your allegation. You also didn't answer the question - if, according to you, one report of one day's cooler weather disproves global warming, what do many reports of a heat wave report. I'm only applying to your standard to the reporting. TracyS 02:16, 17 July 2011 (EDT)
This information can be found at least on an area month by month basis on multiple websites such as Wunderground [7]. I did a quick search on a couple of cities and their Highs / Lows were lower than the average over the years for almost the whole month of June. A quick example can be found at the link below (weather data for Los Angeles for the month of June). If you examine the graphs roughly half way down the page you can see that the averages were lower almost across the board. [8] I'm sure there are many other examples of similar colder weather that the Lamestream Media have ignored. Granted, I do not study weather for my living, and there are probably examples of areas with warmer weather as well, but the Media only sensationalizes claims of heating to push their liberal ideology of Global Warming. --MRellek 13:14, 17 July 2011 (EDT)
To be fair, there IS a reason besides trying to prove that global warming is true for reporting so muxh hot weather: IT'S HOT, and thats DANGEROUS. --SeanS 13:32, 17 July 2011 (EDT)
Case in point. WilliamB1 20:01, 19 July 2011 (EDT)

"Featured" Essay status

Why does this website continually present its face to the world by "featuring" ridiculous, childish, barely comprehensible "essays" like the new screed about Penn Jillette and dancing girls? That an editor at this website fills up this site with mindless gibberish like this is one thing, but to then present this material as a "FEATURED" item shows that those who run this site really could care less about the profile of this site. It is functionally impossible for this site to be taken seriously when an article featuring the ad hominem "walrus slide" is used in a featured article. When is someone, ANYONE, going to put a stop to this rampant abuse? When is anyone who actually cares about being taken seriously going to step up and stop this user from controlling the front page? JanW 12:39, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

I fully agree with the above. A lot of people, myself included, have been working very hard to make Conservapedia a respectable place to find real information. This work is undermined by the stuff that we see all too often on the front page. Humor has its place in various publications, but this walrus stuff is just not the way to present it. Walrus humor needs to be framed in a way that sets its context within the overall mission. SamHB 12:50, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
This website seems to have an unhealthy obsession with obesity and linking it to liberalism and atheism. Its sounds like a one-trick pony argument they have against atheism. This site will never be seen as nothing more than a fringe right wing webite with little actual substance. Custer 14:58, 16 July 2011
JanW, I am glad you found it comprehensible. I added an Indian culture section to help you find it more comprehensible. Perhaps, the atheist Penn Jillette who is fond of profanity (like many low class atheist) will read it and become a more genteel atheist. Conservative 19:03, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Andy, instead of getting frustrated by a few constructive comments, here's a worthy main pager about the Obama administration Custer 17:16 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Good luck with that Custer, it will be your last stand. Andy and conservative have dumbed down the conservative movement with their airheaded entries on conservapedia. Disagree with them and you get banned. I've been banned several times just for mentioning advice to the "genius" editors. Your right about the obesity, they seem to have a fixtation with that. Especially Andy's birther delusions. JanW,,sheesh...Andy will ban you. I know personally. Your right though it is gibberish. Real conservatives can debate topics like atheism or liberalism, without resorting to obesity. Ronsin2 18:52, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Conservative raises good points in his essays. There is nothing wrong with a little humor on the wiki. NickP 19:27, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Agreed. I enjoy Conservative's essays. His material is certainly funnier and more insightful and substantive than Penn's work. --FergusE 19:54, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
I think too few of Conservative's essays are featured on the main page. I'd like to see more. --MatthewQ 20:00, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
The essay was a piece of satire, clearly intended to force atheists to re-evaluate their world-view. I know plenty of people who enjoy Conservative's essays, and the only person who should feel offended is the target of the satire, the entire point of writing them in the first place. FCapra 19:37, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Conservapedia just added a section titled "Learn Indian culture which is more happy and genteel than low class Western atheist 'culture' " to its new comedy/satire entitled Penn Jillette's walrus slide vs. thin Christian lady dancers. I do understand that there are going to be atheists irritated about the essay, but who cares what depressed, low class and trashy, socially challenged atheists complain about. :) Conservative 21:04, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Come on, you're pulling our leg with all this obese atheist, walrus slide, Indian ladies stuff, right? Nate 21:55, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Come on, have a sense of humor. These lighthearted essays are really amusing, and help bring the point home.--JamesWilson 22:00, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
They're not lighthearted. They're mostly incoherent except where the hate comes through. Nate 22:06, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Hate? I couldn't find any. Conservative has as of a privilege to write an essay as anyone else and think that you should leave them alone if you really despise them that much.--JamesWilson 22:11, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
It was surprising to see Christians in India wearing jewelry. I've been told they do not wear so much as a wedding ring. Jewelry is regarded as idolatrous and pagan, and that's how Cristians in India separate themselves from the world. But I have no surce to back tha up. Rob Smith 22:15, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
All the ladies and gentlemen from India who I have met are thin, very pleasant and have a positive attitude. And while the atheism infested UK appears to be in decline, India is on an economic upswing. Just admit it. The UK is weighed down by depressed (see: Atheism and depression, overweight and socially challenged atheists. In the UK, 1 in 4 people will experience some kind of mental health problem in the course of a year.[9] Self-harm statistics for the UK show one of the highest rates in Europe: 400 per 100,000 population.[10] Mixed anxiety and depression is the most common mental disorder in Britain. [11] Most of the Indians I have met are the ones who have been skilled/educated so it would be interesting to know how the two countries general mental health compare. I do know that India has the lowest divorce statistics that I have seen when countries are compared. [12] Britain with its many socially challenged atheists has a high divorce rate in comparison. Richard Dawkins, for example, has been divorced twice, but perhaps that is partly due to him lacking machismo which is why I suggest he debate Dr. William Lane Craig. Conservative 22:41, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Well Christians have been in India since the time of the Apostle Thomas and it appears they haven't won many converts. If their serious about Christan ministry, they better get crackin'. Rob Smith 22:50, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
My girlfriend just so happens to be an Indian Catholic (and also a cracking Lindy-hopper, to boot), yet despite her insight, she still can't make head or tail out of your "humorous" argument. South and East Asians across the board are thinner than westerners, regardless of religion, so taking into consideration that fact, as well as the fact that America has greater rates of obesity than the UK, you appear to be calling the kettle black. Perhaps diet and income are a better indicator of weight than religious conviction. Maninahat 17:28, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

Featured article committee

Since there is so much interest, perhaps someone would wish to help revitalize the Conservapedia:Featured articles page; it needs some routine maintence and archiving. Then we could reorganize the Featured article committee to consider and recommend featured articles for the Main Page. I have no objection to non-sysops working on that committee. Rob Smith 23:27, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

I volunteer and Inominate 10 telltale signs you are on your way to becoming an atheist nerd. I feel it's one of Conservative's best-written essays and really does a good job of illustrating how lonely and empty an atheist's life must be. --FergusE 21:42, 17 July 2011 (EDT)

Essay Portal

I've started a new portal for Conservapedia's essays. I've only just started it, so it only has one category, but I hope it becomes useful. --FergusE 23:16, 16 July 2011 (EDT)