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Bakhmut

Putin may have lost Izium and Kherson, but he's betting the farm on another offensive, this time against Bakhmut. It hard to see how this idea can work out to his benefit. If Russia takes the city, it will be oligarch and Wagner Group boss Yevgeny Prigozhin who gets the credit. That can't be what Putin wants since Prigozhin is a loose canon who publicly criticizes the regular army and is already being mentioned as an alternative to Putin. The plan to take Bakhmut was drawn up as half of a pincer movement back when Russia held Izium. Now its one hand clapping. If Russia is in a position to take Bakhmut, why did it give up Kherson? The terrain worked against Russia in Kherson, but that is also true in Bakhmut. The Ukrainian artillery is firing from behind hills, a tactic called defilade. Perhaps Putin has been reduced to desperately hoping for a win somewhere, anywhere like Hitler in the Battle of Bulge. Bakhmut is a center of salt production. In Peter the Great's day, people built fortresses and fought battles to control the salt trade. PeterKa (talk) 15:06, November 21, 2022 (EST)

The Battle of Atremorsk (Ukrainian: Bakhmut) has been going on all summer. Bakhmut, on the high ground is the key to the whole Donbass front. Avdiivka, about 30 km outside Donetsk is the big problem. Avdivvka has been shelling Donetsk for 8 years, killing civilians. Avdiivka is dug in like the North Korea Demilitarized Zone.
The pincer movement from Bakhmut will head south against Avdivvka (in addition to being able to retake the Russian cities of Kramatorsk to the NW, and a defensive movement to protect Lysychansk).
Kherson front-1.PNG Kherson front-2.PNG

(left) Existing Kherson border (right) proposed new border by the Zelensky regime. [1]
As to Kherson, the Ukies are currently evacuating the other half of the population which did not evacuate to Russia already. Apparently, at one point or other, one side or the other will finally destroy the Nova Kakohova dam and create a new border 15 kilometers wide using the Dnieper River between Russia and whatever is left of Ukraine or the "Polish Ukraine Commonwealth". This would leave the Russian city of Odessa under Ukrainian occupation. Kherson, like the ancient Egyptian city of Thebes when UUSR built the Aswan dam, will forever be underwater. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:24, November 21, 2022 (EST)
Meantime, your sources are crap, and your spewing Nazi bs. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:25, November 21, 2022 (EST)
The Russian objective is to destroy Ukraine/NATO military, not capture territory. The Russians will cede territory to lay a trap for a miliary that thinks it's all about capturing territory. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:27, November 21, 2022 (EST)
As to Ulegedar on the Zaporozhye line, you have the same problem. It sits on the high ground, NATO/Ukraine has transferred about 40,000 troops from the Kherson front to Ulegedar and all along the Donbas front. From a military/strategic perspective, the best strategy is to try to invade Russia from Ulegedar and capture Mariupol, splitting Russian forces in half. This not only is the most practical and strategic move, it's also the most dangerous and idiotic. It would guarantee Poland, Ramstein, Brussels, London, Washington, and probably New York getting nuked if it even came close to any success. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:36, November 21, 2022 (EST)
PeterKa, Kherson is on the Western side of river and the Ukrainians attacked a bridge so it was difficult to feed a supply line to from the Eastern side. The Russians were smart to give it up because they were not using it to attack another place. "The history of war proves that nine out of ten times an army has been destroyed because its supply lines have been cut off...” - General Douglas MacArthur Conservative (talk) 15:47, November 21, 2022 (EST)
The city of Kherson likely will be no more, with the new border 15 km behind it.
Oh, and the idiot from the Military and Foreign Affairs Network was wrong. He said the subways of Kharkov would create problems for Russia in an urban environment with their ability to move troops around. Duh, the subways are electric. And these are the idiots who've been giving their "expert" analysis since February.
Frankly, I'm really getting tired and losing patience over listening to this Nazi bs and propaganda we've been subjected to since February. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:52, November 21, 2022 (EST)
Nearly all the Nazis are dead and buried. Now there are neo-Nazis. Conservative (talk) 16:01, November 21, 2022 (EST)
Nah, these are old school Nazis the US supports in their beliefs and value system. Neo-Nazis are just wannabees. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:06, November 21, 2022 (EST)
WAGNER CAPTURED UKRO-NAZI INTELLIGENCE OFFICER - SPEAKS ABOUT HIS LOVE FOR HITLER AND NAZIS.
I can't wait to see Biden, Jake Sullivan, and Jens Stoltenberg explain themselves to this group of interrogators. They'll get a fair hearing and trial. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:44, November 21, 2022 (EST)
AMERICAN MERCENARY RETURNED FROM UKRAINE - HAS VERY EYE OPENING WORDS ABOUT HIS SERVICE THERE. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:55, November 21, 2022 (EST)


Kherson was probably an original "Potemkin Village". Potemkin was buried there. The Russians took the stature to Catherine the Great, who founded the city, and Potemkin's bones with them. What does that tell you? They were (legitimately) afraid of Nazi vandalism, or they plan on destroying the dam and burying alive 25,000 NATO troops? RobSGive Peace a chance 16:14, November 21, 2022 (EST)
TL;DR regarding all the recent extensive updates filled with jargon. I caught up with the news on the rocket attack in Poland which was evidently perpetrated by the Ukrainian puppet government. What else is going on in the war between Russo-imperialists and Ukrofascists? —LT (The Old Right was right!) Monday, 16:23, November 21, 2022 (EST)
Na-zilensky is on the way out; if his Nazi bodyguards don't get him first, he's soon to take his looted millions and flee. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:27, November 21, 2022 (EST)
That reminds me, it's funny that most leftists think it's "antisemitic" to highlight Zelensky's evil ties simply because of his Jewish heritage. It's essentially a variation of the "friend argument," akin to their other forms of left-wing deception like "Margaret Sanger had black friends" or "BLM is supported by Jewish organizations." This op-ed in The Times of Israel brilliantly summarizes the matter. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Monday, 16:33, November 21, 2022 (EST)
The guy who plotted the Final Solution was Jewish. So is Soros.
I've been reluctant to add the poop I got on Na-ziensky's successor, Valerii Zaluzhnyi. He has girlfriends all over Ukraine 20 years younger as he rides around pretending to be commander-in-chief, but it'll just be accused of being Russian propaganda. By the time Mark Milley and Biden regime hail him as the courageous new leader and defender of democracy, we should have some more sourcing. RobSGive Peace a chance 16:37, November 21, 2022 (EST)
Can you elaborate on who you're referring to when you say "The guy who plotted the Final Solution was Jewish?"--Geopolitician (talk) 01:30, November 23, 2022 (EST)
Heydrich. But I don't want to get into a lengthy back and forth rehash of the evidence. I base my judgement and opinion on the fact that he believed it was so. I'm not trying to force my view or opinion on the matter on anyone, as I realize it is controversial. I don't believe there is any reference to it in his CP bio, and if it appears someday, I would carefully make sure all opposing views were represented, and allow readers to make their own considered judgement, and not impose my own opinion on the matter, which is exactly that, a considered judgment and opinion based upon years of extensive reading on the subject. As I said, I believe it cause I believe he believed it, which means both of us could be wrong. RobSGive Peace a chance 04:50, November 23, 2022 (EST)
Polish Man Tells Zelensky What He Thinks About His Falseflag.
Here's the glorious thing about modern social media and internet - we don't have to have ideas and discussion filtered through MSM and intelligence services - we can get an inkling of public opinion and reaction directly from the horse's mouth. RobSGive Peace a chance 14:33, November 22, 2022 (EST)


In case anyone here cares, Bakhmut is easy to explain. Wagner has a contract with the Russian gov. that stipulates a price per formation (men + materiel, etc.) delivered into action. PMCs obviously exist to make money, so there'll always be a healthy margin attached and, if tactical / strategic results are factored in at all, it'll be in the form of bonus payments, rather than any scaling / clawback on the (profitable) basic rate.

tl;dr: Prigozhin makes money whether or not these formations get obliterated or achieve anything militarily useful, so it's always in his interest to keep recruiting & feeding the meatgrinder.

Helluva way to make a living. ConwayIII (talk) 18:16, November 21, 2022 (EST)

Oh, maybe Russia was better off before it introduced capitalism and the profit motive? Is that what you're saying? RobSGive Peace a chance 18:23, November 21, 2022 (EST)
I don't know what you're complaining about. Wagner mercs make a little under $1,000 a month. NATO mercs make $3,000 (unless they're from Africa, then about $2,000}. What? It's unholy for Russians to pay $1,000 a month but sacred for the US Congress through Zelensky to pay $3,000? Oh, I forget, I'm speaking with a Russophobic bigots. Pardon me. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:57, November 25, 2022 (EST)
Update: The 58th Separate Motorized Infantry Brigade of Armed Forces of Ukraine in Bakhmut, said they were in a desperate situation against invading Russian forces of PMC Wagner Group. The unit appealed to Volodymyr Zelenskyy as the president of Ukraine and to Valeriy Fezerevich as Commander-in-Chief of the National Security Service to solve their problem. Sources posted on social media on November 24, they withdrew from their assigned positions despite the danger during the execution of orders. But they stepped back from their positions to protect their lives.
UKROIDS IN BAKHMUT EXPERIENCE EARLY RUSSIAN CHRISTMAS. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:53, November 24, 2022 (EST)
Update: A lot of war news happening today. You won't be able to catch up by Monday. Nobody told them today is holiday, or tomorrow Black Friday, or the weekend is for rest. By Monday when MSM and intelligence propagandists start broadcasting their cover stories for how the situation has changed, it'll be unrecognizable from how Westerners think they understand the war now. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:15, November 24, 2022 (EST)
Bakhmut update: Prigozhin has pretty well spelled out to the Ukraine public what the objective in Bakhmut is: another Verdun. So, let's say the troops recruited from prison cannot sustain a kill ratio of 7:1 that the Russians have enjoyed since February, and that falls to 5:1. The Ukrainian public already knows they cannot win a war of attrition against Russia, but Russia's throwing its human garbage from prison into the fight, and Ukraine now will be losing its upstanding citizens, fathers and grandfathers (cause the flower of the nation has already been lost) into the fight. Is it worth losing 5 dads for every one Russian prison con, murderer, or drug addict? You decide. Zelensky doesn't care, and it's all being done on your dime. But the Russians are willing to go all winter at it, while the US and NATO are out of weapons and ammunition (even before the big fight at Taiwan starts). So, we can keep printing dollar bills for Zelensky to kickback into Democrat campaign coffers, to sign MIC contracts for delivery in 2 or 3 years, and continue to destroy the US, European, and your own personal economic situation. Or you can repent, come to Jesus, and say "I will not support Nazism any longer." It's a decision each one of us must make. The outcome is dependent on you. RobSGive Peace a chance 05:16, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Oh, and when Prigozhin takes over, you're going to long for the days of Putin. He doesn't like Nazis any more than Stalin of Putin did, least of all Nazis like Robert Mueller. RobSGive Peace a chance 05:18, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Update: Alexander Mercouris responds to MSM racist attacks alleging Ukrainian democracy defenders against Russian asiatic hordes. [2]
Bakhmut update: HistoryLegends. RobSGive Peace a chance 04:37, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Basically, Gen. Armageddon is playing against an AI computer in the Pentagon. Somebody needs to fix an algorithm. When the computer told the Ukraine command to pile up 70,000 men west of the Dnieper in Kherson, it didn't anticipate how to redeploy those forces once the battle was over. The computer thought it could move those forces to Bakhmut by electric rail, cause the computer figured the Russians were stupid for showing compassion to civilians, and not knocking out the power grid like the Americans would in the first 72 hours of the conflict. Now the troops are stuck there cause no electric trains are running, the ground is too soft for tanks from rain and snow, and they don't have any diesel to get there anyway. They could try walking, I suppose, a couple hundred miles in 14 hours of darkness and freezing temperatures. If I were a 45 year old Ukrainian nationalist (all the younger ones are dead already), I'd say eff this. Ukrainian nationalism and Ukrainian leadership ain't worth it. RobSGive Peace a chance 05:18, December 1, 2022 (EST)

Reading the tea leaves

Notorious Nazi bigot and holocaust denier, former Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany Andriy Melnyk, [3] was recalled from Berlin to Kyiv back in July. Melynk now has been promoted to Deputy Foreign Minister of Ukraine. [4]

Rather than being disciplined for outrageous conduct, [5] he's been promoted.

Interpretation: As Ukraine is on the ropes, the Nazis in the regime are gaining strength and power internally in the government. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:07, November 24, 2022 (EST)

So, Mark Milley has disassociated himself from the deadenders like Sullivan, Blinken, Zelensky, Melnyk, BoJo, Ursula von der Leyen and other Nazis who want to die with the Fuhrer in the bunker. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:22, November 24, 2022 (EST)
What would have happened, can you imagine, if Hitler suddenly called timeout and asked for peace talks when the Russians were 30 miles outside Berlin? A point is crossed in war were talking doesn't matter or happen anymore, and when NATO sets up a "Russian regime-in-exile", that pretty much invokes Russia's own nuclear doctrine allowing a first nuclear strike when existence of the state is threatened. Say goodbye to the European Union, Putin's putative successor has formally dissolved it. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:35, November 24, 2022 (EST)
Oh, but you say, 'That was 1945. With modern weapons and technology, no way could Russia ever march 2,400 miles from Stalingrad to Berlin.' See how Western propaganda has rotted your mind? And they don't have to march or occupy Berlin. With modern weapons and technology, there are other ways to deal with Brussels or the Pentagon. Bakhmut is nothing. And talking has stopped. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:41, November 24, 2022 (EST)
You might have a point re. attrition if your boys could have mustered a kill ratio anywhere near 1:1, never mind your crazy numbers. Instead, the cream & most of the fresh milk of the Russian army has already been poured out into the soil of Ukraine, and what's left has curdled into something so toxic and ineffectual that no amount of topping-up is going to restore it as an effective fighting force in the next few years.
Mobilise all you want. You can't train them up. You can't properly equip them. You can't even reliably provide adequate food, clothing & shelter. This winter is going to kill so many mobiks so quickly that we might even see some serious goodwill gestures in time for the Russian Orthodox Christmas. ConwayIII (talk) 19:30, November 28, 2022 (EST)
You're obviously another victim of ISW propaganda. Go ahead, try and plead that before a de-nazification tribunal, see how far it gets you. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:21, November 28, 2022 (EST)

503s

Why do I often see 503 messages while editing here? Patriotic Gamer (talk) 13:41, November 22, 2022 (EST)

Try editing a bit slower, like maybe 4 or 5 seconds between clicks. RobSGive Peace a chance 05:00, November 23, 2022 (EST)
Has this been a recurring issue? Patriotic Gamer (talk) 08:38, November 23, 2022 (EST)
For a couple of weeks now. RobSGive Peace a chance 14:53, November 23, 2022 (EST)

Nonbinary shoots up Colorado gay club

MSNBC and AOC have been using a shooting in Colorado Springs, Colorado to fulminate against conservatives, who are supposedly oppressing the nonbinary community. But it turns out that the shooter is himself nonbinary and prefers "they/them" pronouns. He's also got a serious case of liberal privilege. He's "Mx. Anderson Aldrich" to you. AOC has already given a speech blaming the shooting on Lauren Boebert, the local Republican congresswoman. Breitbart is on the case. PeterKa (talk) 21:08, November 23, 2022 (EST)

excerpted:
On Tuesday, ten GOP senators joined in, co-sponsoring a bill to cut off funding for a Pentagon diversity and inclusion measure. And outside of government, top conservatives from Senate candidates to media personalities to former Trump administration national-security leaders chose, in the wake of the massacre of five club patrons during a drag show, to up their rhetorical assaults on LGBTQ+ Americans, including those who serve in uniform.
Colorado’s latest mass-murder-by-AR-15—allegedly by a right-wing, conspiracy-obsessed 22-year-old—comes amid a rise in violence against LGBTQ+ Americans and a sustained campaign, led by right-wing Christian politicians, of rhetoric and legislation intended to isolate and demonize them. “Extremist candidates and their well-funded allies have spent at least $50 million in political ads spreading disinformation and attacking LGBTQ+ people — and especially transgender youth — in the 2022 midterm elections,” by Human Rights Campaign’s count.
LGBTQ+ people made up 12 percent of active duty troops in 2018, according to the most recent edition of RAND Corporation’s periodic health survey. A decade-plus of increasing legal and other support for LGBTQ+ troops—interrupted by President Trump’s 2019 order restricting service by trans people—has continued under the Biden administration.
RobSGive Peace a chance 15:48, November 23, 2022 (EST)
As I understand it, the weapon was not an AR-15, but rather a handgun. Evidently this lobbying group is spreading misinformation in the halls of Congress. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:29, November 24, 2022 (EST) Never mind, that was the WalMart manager shooting the non-union employees. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:12, November 24, 2022 (EST)

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Hope you enjoyed your day!--Geopolitician (talk) 22:24, November 24, 2022 (EST)

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well, Geopolitician! —LT (The Old Right was right!) Friday, 22:47, November 24, 2022 (EST)

Trump purportedly dines with prominent comsymp

Well well well, it seems that Trump has recently met with and is "impressed" by Nick Fuentes, a comsymp (communist sympathizer) (see here) who extolled mass murderer Joseph Stalin. [6] I guess "right-wing populism" is just ultranationalistic communism disguised under a banner of being culturally "right-wing." Oh well, so much for authentic conservatism. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Friday, 15:08, November 25, 2022 (EST)

Wow. I knew Fuentes admired Xi, but I didn't know he admired Stalin too. Looks like he's shifting towards National Bolshevism.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:08, November 25, 2022 (EST)
It's interesting that the same crowd who you'd expect to be fierce anti-communists simultaneously express sympathies for communists abroad. Back in the 1940s, Mississippi segregationist and race-demagogue John E. Rankin was one of the strongest supporters of the HUAC and mixed his red-baiting with race-baiting (in addition to endless Jew-hatred), and yet also spoke highly of Stalin. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 11:50, November 26, 2022 (EST)
The Horseshoe model is the most accurate existing representation of the political spectrum. The mainstream left and the mainstream right are worlds apart, but the radical left and the radical right are nearly identical. However, there's one flaw to that model: it fails to take into account that the radical left and the radical right are capable of actually merging into a fully syncretic radical movement. Several attempts to create such a movement have already been made, as highlighted in the National Bolshevism article I created. And more such attempts are ongoing. I firmly believe we will one day see the emergence of a new "-ism" that is synonymous with radical syncretism, much like how communism is synonymous with the radical left and fascism is synonymous with the radical right. Two movements I would particularly look out for are Aleksandr Dugin's "Fourth Political Theory" and Jackson Hinkle's "MAGA Communism"--Geopolitician (talk) 12:05, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Isn't the term "radical right" more or less invented by neo-Marxist academics? As for the horseshoe theory, I agree that its model is accurate, though it seems to be misunderstood and applied incorrectly too often. While the current brand of "national populists" (yes, some in the "right-wing populist" crowd call themselves that) certainly can be understood as extremely right-wing in some regard and their economics parallels that of communism, the mainstream interpretation of the similarities of fascism/Nazism and communism by invoking the horseshoe theory typically relies on the "fascism is right-wing" argument. I've also indeed noticed the insurgent "MAGA Communism" movement by Hinkle, which laughably demonstrates that the professed anti-socialist diatribes by "right-wing populist" movements are mostly nominal. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 19:35, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Horseshoe theory's position on fascism is that it is right-wing, but it's also so far right that it's left. That of course is a premise not too many people accept.--Geopolitician (talk) 20:07, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Yeah, I can see how mainstream designations define fascism on the horseshoe theory in such a manner. I'd argue that it's more accurate to argue the other way around; contrary to Marxist propaganda, fascism was an outgrowth of socialism rather than a capitalist, big business revolt against it. The reason Mussolini and other revolutionary anarcho-syndicalists abandoned Marxism was not because they became disillusioned with socialism itself, but rather because it's failures to accomplish a socialist paradise. The internationalism of orthodox Marxism was met with the reality of nationalist sentiment during World War I, and therefore they syncretized Marxism with nationalism to invent fascism. The ideology ultimately remains far-left, though Marxists persistently redefine it as "far-right" to desperately distance themselves from it. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 21:59, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Fascism started out as an offshoot of Marxism, but Mussolini later rejected Marxism as outdated and declared himself to be the new standard for socialist thought. Thus, fascism is now a non-Marxist variant of socialism.
With that said if one accepts the premise that Marxism is left-wing but socialism, like other forms of collectivism, can be either left-wing or right-wing, then by that logic both "fascism is right-wing" and "fascism is a form of socialism" would be true statements. Much like how it's possible for one's sister to also be one's daughter.--Geopolitician (talk) 10:44, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Trump also dined with Mitt Romney at a 3 star dinner and Romney praised Trump during the dinner meeting.[7] Politics makes strange and fleeting bedfellows. Romney voted for at least one of Trump's impeachments.[8] Conservative (talk) 15:18, November 25, 2022 (EST)
That's definitely true. Historically, demagogues and political false prophets of various stripes often find bizarre alliances, whether temporarily or permanently. Often times, the professed hardline rightist is far more sympathetic to the far-left than the average person may expect. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Friday, 15:23, November 25, 2022 (EST)
Jesus dined with tax collectors and prostitutes. I hope he isn't going there. We don't need to see Stormy Daniels at Mar-a-Largo. PeterKa (talk) 21:19, November 25, 2022 (EST)
Well, when Jesus dined with sinners, it was because He was trying to convert them away from their worldly, ungodly passions. On the other hand with Trump, he has at this point proven himself to be a fifth-rate rabble-rouser, and his influence certainly isn't improving the moral characters of political followers. If anything, Trumpism is devolving into a form of neopaganism. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 21:32, November 25, 2022 (EST)
To be fair, Trump says that he only invited Kanye, and that Fuentes was brought in as a guest without Trump's prior consent. Although even then it probably wasn't a smart move for Trump to invite Kanye to begin with. They may be friends, but at this time the best thing Trump can be doing for his friend is getting him help. Kanye has been in need of a rehab for a while now.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:11, November 25, 2022 (EST)
On another note, you're correct that Trumpism is devolving into neopaganism. In the era of mass media, any political movement centered around a single person is going to reach that point sooner or later.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:14, November 25, 2022 (EST)
I don't know if "Ye" is truly in need of rehab, though one thing's for sure: he needs to learn not be an antisemite. As for political movements revolving around a "strongman" cult of personality devolving into neopaganism, Trumpism and its more even more populist variants represent the right-wing/syncretic version of "Longism" from the early 1930s in its unending political and economic demagoguery. It's no surprise nor sheer coincidence that hardline "right-wing populists" in addition to "alt-right" elements have extolled Huey Long. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 11:50, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Trust me, Kanye absolutely needs rehab. I’ve been of that opinion since he began his absurd crusade against Pete Davidson. Actually, now that I think about it, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a direct connection between his Pete Davidson obsession and his antisemitic remarks. After all, Davidson does have Jewish ancestry on his father’s side.--Geopolitician (talk) 14:29, November 27, 2022 (EST)
Egotistic demagogues like Kanye West appeal to the same low-grade bigotry antisemites of various stripes do, feeding conspiratorial blather about how "Jewish conspiracies" are the cause of the world's problems rather than taking a good long look in the mirror and admitting their own faults for the issues in their lives. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Sunday, 15:01, November 27, 2022 (EST)

Trump is in the hospitality business. Like others (including liberals) in that business, they "dine" with virtually anyone and everyone. I don't see a legitimate news story in this.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 11:58, November 26, 2022 (EST)

As someone who is familiar with Nick Fuentes and his Groyper followers, let me say that this is indeed a turning point for Trump. If Trump doesn't disavow Fuentes, he will be branded as a fellow traveler by his political opponents, and it will become somewhat more difficult for him to reign in those who are considering dumping him for DeSantis. But if Trump does disavow Fuentes, then Fuentes and his Groyper followers will instantly turn into hardcore NeverTrumpers and try to undermine Trump at every turn. Recall what they did to Charlie Kirk and to Joe Kent when they crossed Fuentes.--Geopolitician (talk) 20:26, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Are you trying to say Fuentas, and whatever a groyper is, are some giants of the conservative movement? Has he ever run for anything? Funny, I never heard of the guy or groypers outside of CP. Once upon a time, maybe 5 years ago, I think I watched an episode or two of his, and dismissed the guy as nuts. Or is the argument that there are lots of young, stupid, impressionable youth out there that are persuaded by Fuentas? and that Trump is too stupid to know what he's doing? RobSGive Peace a chance 20:50, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Fuentes is bigger now than he was five years ago, because of two events: (1) the Groyper Wars of 2019; and (2) his banning from Twitter in 2021.
The former event consisted of Fuentes and his followers crashing Q&A sessions at TPUSA-sponsored conventions and asking troll questions like “How does anal sex win the culture war?” or “Do you know about the dancing Israelis?”. Most conservative activists who were aware of these incidents condemned them, with the notable exception of Michelle Malkin, who supported them and accused TPUSA of embracing politically correctness.
The latter event should’ve occurred far earlier, given that Fuentes had previously called for the murder of CNN employees and stated that the January 6 incident was justifiable. But instead Twitter waited until the ADL said anything at all about him, and now many younger conservatives see him as a martyr for free speech.--Geopolitician (talk) 14:14, November 27, 2022 (EST)
A tempest in a tea pot signifying nothing. RobSGive Peace a chance 14:37, November 27, 2022 (EST)
RobSmith, if a neo-Marxist demagogue threatened violence against Fox News employees, would you still contend that it's "a tempest in a tea pot signifying nothing"? —LT (The Old Right was right!) Sunday, 15:01, November 27, 2022 (EST)
That must've been a tempest in a teapot, too, cause I never heard of it. Unless you're inventing a hypothetical. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:00, November 27, 2022 (EST)
Now that I’ve read Trump’s explanation on Truth Social, it appears that the reason behind the dinner was that Trump wanted to persuade Kanye not to run again, because apparently Kanye has plans to do so. It was supposed to be a one-on-one meeting, but Kanye decided to bring some friends. And Trump held back from objecting to that because he knows Kanye is unstable and would probably retaliate by ending negotiations right then and there if he said anything about it. Hopefully this is the last time Trump invites Kanye to Mar-a-Lago, at least for a while.--Geopolitician (talk) 14:22, November 27, 2022 (EST)
I hear tell Kanye offered Trump the VP spot. RobSGive Peace a chance 14:37, November 27, 2022 (EST)
Once again, Kanye needs rehab.--Geopolitician (talk) 11:29, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Is it necessary in any way for Trump to be hospitable towards white supremacists though? As hard as it is for conservatives to admit, the GOP is being subverted by "alt-right" socialists, and not enough is being done to end it. The political experiment of Trumpism was allowed the chance to prove its merits when Trump narrowly won the 2016 election, and while he made some notable accomplishments during his presidency, his era and the brand of ultra-populist politics it promotes ought to be retired. They claim to be the saviors of this nation, and have only torn it apart. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 12:03, November 26, 2022 (EST)
With US taxpayers giving $100 billion to Ukrainian Nazis, Nick Fuentes is the least of our worries. Let's get our head out of our shorts and get our priorities straight. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:58, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Are you not concerned at all about the fact that National Socialists are attempting to infiltrate the GOP on a mass scale? —LT (The Old Right was right!) Sunday, 15:01, November 27, 2022 (EST)
The only American National Socialists heeded the call to defend democracy and are fighting in Ukraine right now, all 3,000 of them, and are being paid by you, the US taxpayer. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:06, November 27, 2022 (EST)
There are National Socialists on both sides, namely due to ongoing disagreements between different cliques over how to define the "International Jewish Conspiracy." Although I do expect the pro-Russian National Socialists to over time shift to National Bolshevism, as the latter is far more acceptable within pro-Russian circles than the former. Conversely, it is the other way around in pro-Ukrainian circles.--Geopolitician (talk) 11:32, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Are there National Socialists in Russia? Yes. Is it legal? No, and the Russian government, more importantly Russian society, comes down hard on it with the force of law and social stigma.
Now, I realize you are talking about anti-semitic conspiracy rhetoric, etc. But you will agree, there's still a difference between harboring and expressing such views, and violent action against persons motivated by such views and rhetoric. Either way, the Russian government comes down hard on both, whereas in Ukraine, not only is it tolerated, the US government is funding it, and Ukrainian national socialists (despite their low numbers as a percentage of the population) were the key element in the US-backed Maidan coup, but have steadily gained political power as a result of NATO support. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:24, November 28, 2022 (EST)
On a complete side note, the word is properly spelled "antisemitism" with no hyphen. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 19:39, November 28, 2022 (EST)

Um... what? Methinks Nick Fuentes is confused as to what Ron DeSantis stands for.--Geopolitician (talk) 12:10, November 28, 2022 (EST)

To be fair, it's really not surprising that National Socialists, of all people, often make the most stupid remarks. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 19:41, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Useful Idiots headlined the story this morning. I guess Press the Meat was all over it yesterday. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:33, November 28, 2022 (EST)
I only listened to a few minutes of Nick Fuentes because I heard bad things about him and because he came across as a slick and young version of David Duke. I just read that he is an incel which must be happening due to his social skills because he isn't a hideous-looking guy. While I was attending to some personal matters I had a Nick Fuentes video playing in the background because I wanted to know what all the recent furor was about. He says in this video that he doesn't believe in dinosaurs! :)
By the way, Trump dined with Nick Fuentes because Trump had a diner with Ye West (Kanye West) and Nick Fuentes unexpectedly came along with Ye West. I am assuming Trump met with West because he has a big fan base and Trump wants his followers' votes. Conservative (talk) 09:52, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Kanye walked out of his interview with Tim Pool. And Kanye put Trump in a bad position where Trump was forced to respond, whereas you always want to be in control and drive the narrative - not forced to respond. Geopolitician's right, I think, Kanye needs intervention and rehab. He needs to lay off the drugs. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:13, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Young and slick version of David Duke? That does sort of sum it up. Of course, the Klansman's far-left sympathies (like this instance) might exceed that of Fuentes's. As for Kanye West, he does need proper guidance, and rehabilitation might be of help. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 12:43, November 29, 2022 (EST
Body Language Ghost is usually pretty good with this kinda stuff. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:36, November 29, 2022 (EST)

Already this story of who dined at Mar-a-Lago has become a nothing burger, amid bigger liberal atrocities by China and Apple.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 00:59, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Only so long as Generation Z remains young. Fuentes is far more popular among conservative GenZ-ers than among any other generation, and I fear they, like their woke counterparts, will never get past their radicalism.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:04, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Euphrates River dries up; massive Antichrist deception warning

In recent news for the past few weeks, the Euphrates River has dried up. I notice that most Christians think this is a fulfillment of a Revelation prophecy:

The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east.

—Revelation 16:12

Sounds like a fulfillment, eh? Not so fast... how are we at the sixth plague already? That would mean that the mark of the beast was already enforced, and that the previous five plagues already happened. There's simply no sound evidence for that, and therefore the recent news of the drying up of the Euphrates cannot be a fulfillment of Revelation 16:12. So what does it all mean?

This video by Bible Flock Box is the only one I found which seems to provide an adequate explanation; Greg Sereda explains that Revelation is a symbolic book, and its mention of "Euphrates" is not to be taken literally. I think the recent panic is part of a mass Satanic deception in the end times; if people think we're already at the sixth plague, then they'll think Jesus is returning soon. And the Bible says that at the end of the world, Satan will impersonate Christ. It's not hard to connect the dots here... we are indeed approaching the end of the world, though not that close yet. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 12:18, November 26, 2022 (EST)

Indeed, most Christians here in the US fail to understand that most of Revelation is a symbolic reference to the reign of Nero and the fall of Jerusalem, not to future events.--Geopolitician (talk) 12:23, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Yes, most notably, the events of 70 A.D. fulfilled a lot of biblical prophecies about the rejection of Christ and the horrendously terrible events that would follow. As for the end of the world, if Revelation was that easy and straightforward to comprehend, then why will most people ultimately be deceived, as the Bible says will happen? If the true meaning was that simple to grasp, then all that most people must do is read Scripture with or without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and easily be educated for preparedness. And yet reality won't unfold that way.
The problem with mainstream Protestant teachings nowadays is that they fail to take the word of Scripture at their proper meaning, and conclude upon all sorts of bizarre conclusions, such as soul sleep denial, eternal burning in Hell, eternal security, and even trivialization of the Ten Commandments, just to name a few notable examples. I am of the opinion that one needs the Holy Spirit in order to be gradually guided to a proper understanding of God's inspired word. Especially for Revelation concerning the end of the world, it's probably not a coincidence that the references made by John are symbols. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 12:31, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Amen!--Geopolitician (talk) 20:19, November 26, 2022 (EST)
I dunno; it could just be a Cold War weapon. The US & Russia have stuff to make it rain, snow, cause earthquakes, make rivers dry up, etc. Seems everybody's reaching down into their mothballed bag of tricks these days short of nuclear war, knowing a younger generation is unaware of this stuff. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:03, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Doesn't the US control the Upper Euphrates in Syria right now, where NATO ally Turkiye is getting ready to attack? and making the river dry is gonna mess up the Iranians at the lower end. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:05, November 26, 2022 (EST)
I mean, heck, the Kyiv junta, a NATO ally, cut off the fresh river water supply to Crimea for 8 years, causing the Russians to attack. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:08, November 26, 2022 (EST)
Even while there's likely political motivations, analyzing from a religious perspective shouldn't be avoided, given all the current hysteria about the event being a purported fulfillment of Revelation prophecy. From a Christian point of view, God comes first and worldly events are secondary; mass confusion, wars, and rumors or wars, are tools used by Satan. Per the Gospel of Matthew:
As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

—Matthew 24:3–8

LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 13:15, November 26, 2022 (EST)
[EC] Oh, speaking of which, I'm noticing a possible math "coincidence" with this set of verses. Notice the numbers... 24:3–8. So there's 24, 8, and 3. 24 = 3 × 8, and 8 = 2^3. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 13:27, November 26, 2022 (EST)
When I first became a history student, I learned Mussolini was the anti-Christ. But by that time Richard Nixon took his place. Then came Reagan, Sadam Hussein, Bin Laden, John McCain, Donald Trump in that order (have I left any out?). RobSGive Peace a chance 13:19, November 26, 2022 (EST)
In order to understand who the Antichrist will likely be, it's firstly crucial to identify the mark of the beast. According to Seventh-day Adventists, it will be manifested in the form of a worldwide Sunday law; the Bible commands keeping the Sabbath (on the seventh day of the week, aka Saturday), but in the later days of the Church of Rome under Constantine, Jews (who have and still keep the Sabbath, assuming they're religious and not entirely secular) became noticeably unpopular. Members of the Church of Rome, also looking to attract pagans, decided to overtly distance themselves from Judaism (this is apparently the main reason why apostate "Christians" had a history of antisemitism for centuries) and abandon the Sabbath in favor of Sunday worship, which practically all the pagans practiced. Although it was initially the Catholic Church which promoted Sunday worship, contemporary mainline Protestants now wholeheartedly promote it as well.
So how will the mark of the beast come about? I am of the opinion that theocratic "right-wing populists," who oppose separation of church and state and promote "Christian nationalism," will enact Sunday worship laws in violation of religious freedom once they gain enough power. As to who the Antichrist will actually be, it's hard to predict as of right now. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Saturday, 13:27, November 26, 2022 (EST)
The term "mark of the beast" is a reference to roman currency, which bore the face of Emperor Nero, who was considered a living god under the theology of Roman paganism.--Geopolitician (talk) 21:58, November 30, 2022 (EST)
The anti-Christ is already here - anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ. For example, those who reject God's grace and are still under law. This is that spirit of anti-Christ. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:48, November 26, 2022 (EST)
But this is the wrong page to discuss such things. Maybe the Community Portal is better. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:49, November 26, 2022 (EST)
This current issue is absolutely relevant to Main Page news. There's evident mass deception about end times prophecy unraveling before our very eyes, and it's an important topic to cover. As a follower of Jesus, who died for my sins so I could have the opportunity to gain eternal life, Christianity comes first and worldly events second. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Sunday, 15:04, November 27, 2022 (EST)
NATO drying the Euphrates would be a worldly event, wouldn't you agree? RobSGive Peace a chance 17:16, November 27, 2022 (EST)
First of all, please provide evidence and not mere speculation that NATO is possibly behind the drying of the Euphrates. Secondly, I'm noticing that your emphasis is quite worldly on a matter that has great biblical significance. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 19:42, November 28, 2022 (EST)
You'll have to wait a few weeks while the Syrian front heats up. My sources haven't provided enough evidence yet. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:47, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Your sources? I presume they are about 90% comprised of Jimmy Dore, Conservative Tree House, Gateway Pundit, BitChute, and YouTube? —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 21:02, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Nah. I have others. People on the ground. Southfront would confirm it, but that could take years. Meanwhile the big story is the US stealing Syrian oil, and our Turkish ally getting ready to attack American troops. But how do you put that into a coherent narrative in addition to documenting NATO doing Satan's work? RobSGive Peace a chance 23:12, November 28, 2022 (EST)
Sigh, once again, when the emphasis of this significant event should be from a biblical perspective, you're continuing to turn it into a worldly geopolitical issue. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 12:46, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Not at all. NATO has become a tool of Satan and is doing Satan's work. I just need a little more convincing evidence before that gets posted on MPR. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:24, November 29, 2022 (EST)

Jennifer Zeng back in the news

She seems to be the prime source for what's happening in China. [9] RobSGive Peace a chance 14:52, November 27, 2022 (EST)

Jennifer Zeng is live right now. [10] RobSGive Peace a chance 19:17, November 29, 2022 (EST)
serpentza: I'm being BLAMED for the Riots and Protests in China. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:41, December 1, 2022 (EST)
We (Lyrics)-A Song Dedicated to the A4 Revolution in China, translated by Jennifer Zeng.
It's just me. Call it a personal quirk. I've always found wartime music in any culture fascinating. It gives a unique insight into the society and culture, the general public attitude and view that you don't get in official statements, propaganda, and historical reporting. RobSGive Peace a chance 00:48, December 5, 2022 (EST)

Apple begun their war against free speech and Elon Musk

Elon Musk Claims Apple Is Threatening to Remove Twitter From App Store --Alex Kosh (talk) 17:41, November 28, 2022 (EST)

Apple is stupid. They have a ton of their production facilities in China which has Covid-19 lockdowns and now has civil unrest. They had too many eggs in the China basket. It's not surprising that their stock is down. They should stay out of politics. It's bound to hurt their brand. You think they would have learned something from what happened to Facebook/Disney. If a company gets too political, it gets backlash. Companies should focus on increasing their stock share in an ethical way which often leads to them being able to hire more workers and meet a consumer demand. Conservative (talk) 09:59, November 29, 2022 (EST)

The sad state of UK/British politics. It seems like the British are not seeing and understanding the obvious

A few matters about UK/British politics:

1. The Brits have had a stagnant productivity rate that has been lagging for about 10 years which is very much hurting their economy, making them less competitive and hurting the living standard their citizens in terms of wealth. And their productivity rates is getting worse. See: Britain’s productivity problem is long-standing and getting worse

2. The Tories have an approval rate of 20% due to broken promises and the sad state of the UK.

3. The UK had a subreplacement level of fertility rate of 1.56 births per woman (2020) which is related to them being very nonreligious/irreligious (see: Atheism and fertility rates). A replacement level of births in a country is 2.1 births per woman. Some Brits want to solve this problem via immigration.

4. A country needs a positive inflow of young blood to work, upgrade their skills and support old people and their pensions. The UK's population is aging. The UK's population is undergoing a massive age shift. There are over 11 million people aged 65 and in ten years' time this will have increased to 13 million people, 22% of the population.[11]

5. Niles Farage, who did Brexit significantly due to immigration, is very upset that legal immigration is way up in Britain and last year had 500,000+ immigrants which is double the rate of their biggest year. Plus, there is a lot of illegal immigration across the British channel. Britain's houses are expensive due to a housing shortage and many of its roads are clogged. So it seems as though their housing and transportation/road policies and systems are badly designed.

6. It looks like Farage is so upset that he is getting back involved in politics. See: Farage sends warning to UK Conservative Party

The solution to the sad state of the UK is obvious. The UK needs to become more Christian, embrace capitalism, have more thoughtful public policies and work harder. See: Protestant cultural legacies and Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism

But the UK/Britain seems mired in contentious wrangling about immigration and Brexit. Conservative (talk) 10:43, November 29, 2022 (EST)

Farage may form his own party There's talk of him becoming prime minister cause the Tories have zero leaders (Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak) and nobody trusts Labor. But the problem is more widespread.
The problem is the entire West, the US, the EU, NATO, Germany, France, UK, Italy, etc. That's how Polish Nazis, who are at odds with the EU, have been able to seize control of US, EU, and NATO foreign policy and steer the West into war with Russia. The West has no "visionary" leaders like the East has, who can mobilize the public behind their vision like Putin has. All the West has are these programmed bots from the WEF like Macron, Trudeau, Buttigieg, etc. RobSGive Peace a chance 11:57, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Polish Nazis? If you're referring to PiS, I wouldn't call them that. Unless I'm missing something?--Geopolitician (talk) 14:45, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Polish Nazis control the Polish foreign policy establishment, from whatever party. They'd probably be known as Polish Atlanticists. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:46, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Now you're using the more accurate term. Atlanticists; that's what they are. The current geopolitical struggle is between the Atlanticists and the Eurasianists; historically Nazis (as in actual Nazis) have opposed both but today are picking sides with mixed results.--Geopolitician (talk) 17:14, December 1, 2022 (EST)
That's true; what's tragic about this war is the breakdown between Russian Atlanticists and American Atlanticists. They both have been marginalized and isolated in their own countries. And Polish Nazis did it. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:34, December 1, 2022 (EST)


Conservative, a true Christian spirit would also mean compassion for immigrants and asylum seekers. Per the Book of Exodus:
You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

—Exodus 22:21

And yet, the brand of "right-wing populist" politics you promote is openly xenophobic, disregards and delegitimizes the plight of many innocent migrants, and often racially charged due to its promotion, whether frequent or infrequent, of "great replacement" propaganda. Immigration policies should not lack proper qualification standards (unfortunately, the name of compassion has been abused by the mainstream left to allow even dangerous criminals to enter), though shutting the door entirely, as hardline populists advocate, is blatantly un-Christian. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Tuesday, 15:59, November 29, 2022 (EST)
"a true Christian spirit would be..." is the No True Scotsman fallacy, as our friends at Ratwiki like to say, RobSGive Peace a chance 17:17, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Um, what? What relevance does that have? Earlier today, you brazenly accuse me in a debate page of rejecting God's word, and here you are, more or less deflecting from my excoriation of those who abuse God's word by invoking an irrelevant point. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 21:35, November 29, 2022 (EST)
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Now, answer the questions below. Was Lot unjust as a border guard when he denied people entrance into the city? Why did ancient cities have walls? RobSGive Peace a chance 21:43, November 29, 2022 (EST)
I'll possibly return to this question posed by you later. Due to your earlier accusation that I "reject the word of God" because I don't accept your personal interpretation of John 5:24, I think I'll study the Gospels more closely before I research the greater meaning of Lot's role in Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 21:51, November 29, 2022 (EST)
"Watchman, what of the night?"
"Lot sat in the gate of Sodom."
Go study those two passages, come back, and we'll discuss immigration and the stranger who sojourns among you. Toss this one in, too:
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle..."
Question: What is the eye of a needle? RobSGive Peace a chance 17:26, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Right-wing populism put Trump into office and will probably put a Republican in the White House in 2024. I realize that right-wing populism has its flaws - especially right-wing European politics. But voting is often a choice between the lesser of two evils. But with all its flaws, European right-wing populism through restrictions in Muslim immigration may slow down all the problems that Muslims are bringing to Europe (Islamic terrorism, Muslim rioting, no-go zones, sexual exploitation of children in Britain via Muslim groomer groups, rise in crime in Sweden, etc.). And in relation to Muslims vs. non-Muslims, it might even avoid bloody civil wars and bloody conflicts in the future (see: Reconquista). Conservative (talk) 17:27, November 29, 2022 (EST)
There may be scores of damned individuals on Final Judgment who think they ought to be exempt from their fate of the second death on the grounds that they opposed the lesser evil. And will their excuses work? No! God wants humanity to be repentful and righteous, not merely follow the "lesser of two evils." And besides, who's to say that "right-wing populism" even constitutes that? Everyone in the group loves to call neo-Marxist leftists "morally degenerate," among numerous charges, yet it doesn't take too much of an observation to notice that the appeal among the rank-and-file made by demagogic "right-wing populists" are often towards the most low-grade, unintelligent, nastiest people in society who'd like to blame the "elites" for life's problems without self-evaluation. Oh wait, sounds like socialist agitprop tactics. Wow, what's the difference anymore? —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 21:44, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Voting is a civic duty. When I fill out a ballot, there is often merely a choice between voting between the lesser of two evils. That's just reality. I suppose I could put in some write-in candidate who is not actually running, but that would be nonsensical. Conservative (talk) 00:49, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Oh please, these days many, if not most elections are between a radical leftist who openly advocate abhorrence to the level of ancient pagan Rome and a radical rightist who professes to oppose a few particular examples of moral degradation while generally desecrating the name of Christianity. So which is even the lesser evil? Hardline "right-wing populists" basically follow the example of Satan, who tries to destroy Christianity from within by filling its teachings with apostasy (i.e. "Christian nationalism"), while far-leftists actually are a bit more open about their un-Christian messages. The "civic duty" and "you simply need to vote" talking point results in mass hordes making uneducated decisions that result in corrupt politicians remaining in power. Ultimately, voting will not prevent the end of this world. Voting will not prevent the Antichrist from seizing control of the government, whether sooner or later. Under this current system of democracy, the individual voice is marginalized and watered down to near-meaninglessness by the collective. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 01:00, November 30, 2022 (EST)
I don't believe in this sort of "electoral gospel" which views voting as the solution to fixing society's problems. Just like the Social Gospel, it ignores that societal problems are rooted in the hearts of men, and fails to directly address the problem.
Also, about the current issues of democracy, it was exacerbated by the 17th Amendment proposing direct election of U.S. senators thanks to the Progressive Movement. It was presented as a democratic alternative to political machine rule that would fulfill the will of the people, and all it did was install a system of increasing collective mob rule that encourages deception and mass manipulation. The U.S. was founded as a republic instead of a direct democracy for a reason. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 01:08, November 30, 2022 (EST)
whoever does not believe is condemned already
now is the day of salvation
We're not talking about some future event. Today is the day of salvation. RobSGive Peace a chance 22:52, November 29, 2022 (EST)
It's important to understand nonetheless that it can take time for people, especially those who were never brought up to understanding Christianity properly (for example, I fit into this category), to develop the proper change of heart needed for repentance. Finding the inner resolve to abandon one's lustful desires, laziness, prejudices, personal anger held against those who wronged them, etc., is not easy. It's better for a person to take the time needed to be consciously able to move away from a sinful life and truly be saved, than it is to try achieving salvation as soon as possible without a proper change of heart and thinking they are saved when they most likely aren't. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 23:02, November 29, 2022 (EST)
It is finished. you don't have to do anything. Go back to Jn 5:24. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:11, November 29, 2022 (EST)
What is finished was Christ's atonement for our sins. We still must repent for our sins to be saved. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 23:25, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Duh, yah. Repent and accept God's grace. It is finished. RobSGive Peace a chance 06:41, November 30, 2022 (EST)
for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
No, "God's rest" is not physical death; it is life in Christ now, in this life. RobSGive Peace a chance 06:45, November 30, 2022 (EST)


The strangers who sojourn with you were Egyptians who made the choice to abandon Egypt and follow God, not a bunch of economic migrants and freeloaders. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:41, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Put another way, the strangers who sojourn among you were gentiles who repented, abandoned worship of the God-man Pharoah in a cursed land, and made the conscious choice to follow Moses and God out of Egypt. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:46, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Go ye out ! Go ye out! Touch not the unclean thing!RobSGive Peace a chance 18:38, December 2, 2022 (EST)
And of course, you have this one from the very introduction of Isiaih chapter 1 on the subject of unregulated immigration and the judgement of God on a nation for disobedience:
"your land, strangers devour it in your presence."
RobSGive Peace a chance 17:58, November 29, 2022 (EST)

US-EU alliance heading for ‘ugly divorce’

Dmitri Medvedev:

“The United States has no intention to share his income...On the contrary, he steals the last savings of his aging partner and pockets the money without any qualms...Washington increasingly makes the business conditions at home attractive to European companies and encourages other nations to buy its products...Meanwhile, the market for European goods is shrinking, in part because of its decision to decouple from Russia...You can’t really trust those rich patrons...Just like that – Europe is off the allowance!...The European Union could break up with its cheating partner and start a new life of freedom, but most likely they do not have enough resolve and testosterone for it”. [12]

Don't think Europeans don't hear this. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:19, November 29, 2022 (EST)

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." - George Washington's farewell address to the people of the United States, Monday, September 19, 1796[13]
I am sorry European honey. it's not you, it's me the American. On the other hand, you're putting on a lot of weight! See: Decline of Europe!
Americans, remember the words of Paul Simon. Paul Simon - 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover Conservative (talk) 18:35, November 29, 2022 (EST)
On a more serious note, the USA could use better relations with Europe and Russia to better handle the increasingly belligerent Chinese before their economic decline and the attendant potential end of the Chinese Communist Party. The sooner the conflict ends in Ukraine, the better off the USA, Europeans and Russians will be. Conservative (talk) 18:51, November 29, 2022 (EST)
It's too late for that. The Russians will no longer believe any oral or written agreements with the United States and the West (with good cause). Too bad. We have to have another WWI or WWII scenario play out to create a new restructured world order, without Western interests dominating it. And China, India, Africa, and Latin America are on board for that agenda. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:56, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Lavrov: “If, and when, at some point in time, our Western neighbors and former partners suddenly become interested in somehow restoring joint work on European security, then restoration will not work…Because restoration means that was before…But there will be no business as usual”. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:58, December 1, 2022 (EST)
There are no arms control treaties on the table - because of US actions in Ukraine and elsewhere. Ok, N Korea and China say pedal to the metal, even tho Russia's requests for arms control have been ignored by the US for two decades. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:00, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Russia's headed for demographic and societal decline. Russian-Western relations may get better 10-20 years from now out of Russian economic necessity. Girlfriends who leave their boyfriends sometimes want to go back to them. Conservative (talk) 19:02, November 29, 2022 (EST)
So is America headed for demographic decline - except for all the population growth from open borders. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:04, November 29, 2022 (EST)
As to social decline, America is well into that already. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:05, November 29, 2022 (EST)
The point is, people talk about a "negotiated settlement". The "negotiated settlement" Russia will agree to now is the United States recognizing the new borders - dictated by Russia. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:07, November 29, 2022 (EST)

The is no big waiting list of people wanting to move to Russia. In fact, a lot of Russians have fled Russia for greener pastures. Many people want to come to the USA. And the USA has demographic groups with positive fertility rates like religious Hispanics, Amish, Mormons, South Dakotans, etc. Conservative (talk) 19:08, November 29, 2022 (EST)

Well, that's fine. But it doesn't answer the question of new standards of international conduct not dictated by the United States. The alternative is Cold War II, with the US only dominating N America, the EU saying FU to the US, NATO breaking up, and the rest of the planet going their own way. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:11, November 29, 2022 (EST)
This whole US plan is probably going to backfire - to bankrupt the EU, move all EU manufacturing to the US, and the US keeping the EU as its own market for exports, keeping Russia and China out. Europeans may have some say in their own future, particularly if Russia offers it to them. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:14, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Secular Europe abandoned God to a large degree. And "There is no peace for the wicked" (Isaiah 57:21).
But it's not too late. Maybe the drunk will hit rock bottom and sober up. Prodigal sons sometimes return. See: European desecularization in the 21st century. Conservative (talk) 19:23, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Bottomline: Russia is not interested in any written agreements with the current generation of leaders of the West; now, you can say, "Oh yah, wait til Putin's gone." Bad assumption based on bad information. Moscow will not change its policy anytime soon. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:00, November 29, 2022 (EST)
Now, if written agreements included recognition of the new borders, and lifting sanctions, and possibly agreements for future arms negotiations, after some time of the West demonstrating good faith, Russia might be more willing to abide by the terms they would commit themselves to in a written agreement.
For example, the US would have to abandon its active regime change operations in Russia, in Belarus, in Syria, in Turkey, in Thailand, in Africa and elsewhere. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:04, November 29, 2022 (EST)
The US is playing the role now that the Soviet Union and Comintern played throughout its whole existence - actively trying to subvert and overthrow governments all over the planet. The Russians are well familiar with that game, and know how to detect it. Since 1991, they have given it up. But the US, thinking itself cute, has adopted the Comintern's agenda. Russia got burned playing that game, and we the American public, should heed Russia's warnings.RobSGive Peace a chance
Update: Medvedev threatens NATO: Russia will blow up NATO personnel operating Patriot systems in Ukraine. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:39, November 29, 2022 (EST

The UK could use a Prime Minister as great as Margaret Thatcher right now

One of the most religious Prime Ministers in the UK's history was all one of the greatest. I am speaking of the UK's longest serving Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. The UK could use someone like the Iron Lady back in power. Conservative (talk) 21:44, December 1, 2022 (EST)

Was Thatcher really religious? Fiscally conservative, yes, and admirable, but I don't recall much social conservatism by her which religious faith would prompt.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 22:09, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Just got this today. [14] RobSGive Peace a chance 22:27, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Andy, Margaret Thatcher has been called Britain's most religious prime minister since William Ewart Gladstone who served in the late 1800s (Filby, Eliza (2015). God & Mrs Thatcher: The Battle for Britain's Soul. London: Biteback Publishing. ISBN 978-1-84954-785-7).[15] Key point: With that being said, Britain is not a very religious place (See: British atheism) post Charles Darwin.
In addition, Here’s How Religion Shaped Margaret Thatcher’s Politics and The faith of Margaret Thatcher, in her own words. Conservative (talk) 10:12, December 2, 2022 (EST)
So, while the GOP, Trump, and MAGA house is burning down with the Ye story, you wanna talk about UK potholes again with 2,100 bytes posted up on MPR? RobSGive Peace a chance 14:03, December 2, 2022 (EST)

This is entirely too much space to say too little on a Friday, a big news dump day:

"Even as the country slides into a recession, Britain has too many job vacancies and too few workers willing or able to fill them. The UK on track to be the only advanced country next year with employment below pre-pandemic levels.[7] The UK/Britain needs a leader more fiscally conservative like the iron lady Margaret Thatcher again.[8][9]

Question: Why are the godless British, such big slackers? See: Atheism and sloth and Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism

Like many atheists during the coronavirus pandemic, Sam Harris' website keeps losing its global market share and web traffic.[10] See: Internet atheism and the coronavirus pandemic

When death beats on people's doors, sometimes their childish resistance to God's existence wanes (See: Atheism and immaturity). Didn't Joe Biden say that he was going to "shut down the virus"?[11] We're still waiting!

Nobody, nobody in the US cares about a UK recession right now. Certainly not deserving of more than 2 lines on the slowest news day. RobSGive Peace a chance 15:30, December 2, 2022 (EST)

"I myself believe that the duel between Christianity and atheism is the most important in the world. I further believe that the struggle between individualism and collectivism is the same struggle reproduced on another level." - William F. Buckley, God and Man at Yale: The Superstitions of "Academic Freedom"
Nations and empires come and go. But the souls duped by atheist propaganda will burn in Hell forever. And the conflict between individuals/collectivism in an important matter as well. Conservative (talk) 23:07, December 2, 2022 (EST)
I'm not talking about substance. I am talking about how much space you routinely use to say very little.
Now we just trimmed down 832 bytes for 3 stories to 692 bytes; that's a marked improvement, however, it's still well over 200 bytes per news item (now, the number of bytes can vary based upon the length of an external link - but readability and timely relevance of the posting is most import.) You repeatedly post items of 1,100-1,500 bytes which are unreadable, and kill off narrative development or contemporaneous flow. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:16, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Keep in mind, these are headlines broadcast to a wide public - avoid rhetorical devices you would use talking to a neighbor over the back fence. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:23, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Europe’s anti-American itch. Europeans have themselves to blame for much their industrial and strategic failings

Europe’s anti-American itch, Europeans have themselves to blame for much their industrial and strategic failings, Politico, November 2022

Amen!

I agree with about 95% of the article. See: Decline of Europe

USA! USA! USA! See: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future

The United States will probably remain the leading power for at least a decade. But the USA national debt could lead to a global depression in the 2030s.[16] The USA spends 7 to 8 times the other top 7 top militaries in the world and so the bills are adding up. It's expensive to continue to be the world's policeman (The USA should pare back and not get into so many wars).

While the USA does have an outsized influence on NATO that is partly Europe's fault for letting their military strength wither. The European NATO members could have chosen to be against NATO expansion - especially the notion that Ukraine could be a member. Conservative (talk) 15:54, November 30, 2022 (EST)

You're falling for globalist propaganda, again. It's got its name written all over it, "Politico". This is not a random article in a random rag. It's programmed talking points for the coming momentous events over the next two months. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:44, November 30, 2022 (EST)
[EC] The only sense in which the U.S. will be a true leader of the world soon will be in the push for a global Sunday law that paves the way for the mark of the beast. See the Book of Revelation for more details. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 15:55, November 30, 2022 (EST)
The Islamic nations, India, Tibet and other non-Christian countries are not going to agree to participating in a "global Sunday law". Conservative (talk) 16:14, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Really? I think you underestimate the sway and influence of Pope Francis to unite the world under a universal pagan religion with the aim of imposing their own "new world order." Support for Sunday law will probably be a united front. So far, there's a case being made for them on the basis of labor union causes, economics, and environmentalism. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 16:20, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Only around 18% of the world is Catholic.[17] And I see no evidence that Pope Francis is uniting the world. The world is very divided right now. It is also becoming more right-wing and Pope Francis leans left. Conservative (talk) 17:26, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Also, this report from 2018: "There was a brief moment early on in his papacy when it looked like he might unite the church as a devout outsider who could somehow bridge the gap between the faithful and their fathers. Now, more than five years into his papacy, he leads a church crippled by systemic clerical sex abuse scandals and which has never been more divided."[18] Conservative (talk) 17:31, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Perhaps there's the illusion that the papacy will fall apart, but its wounds will heal in preparation for the beast and false prophet. Their push for Sunday laws are succeeding throughout the world, and the rise of "Christian nationalism" will evidently bolster it further. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Wednesday, 17:42, November 30, 2022 (EST)
And I do realize that the USA played a role in the Ukrainian Orange Revolution which helped contribute to the current war in Ukraine happening. Conservative (talk) 16:12, November 30, 2022 (EST)
The United States started this war. The Ukranian army was defeated in March. NATO and the US have kept the Ukrainian zombie regime alive since, killing 100,000 Ukrainian troops and 20,000 civilians. Russia is about to terminate NATO's influence in Ukraine ("demilitarization") with a half million troops. Ukrainian troops, 45 years and older, with NATO forces in Ukrainian uniform are all that's left. South Korea, where NATO is now buying its ammunition from, can't produce enough fast enough to compet with what Russia has stockpiled.
I told you months ago, everything you thought you knew about this conflict from Western psyops and MSM is bs. Stop now, before going any further. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:51, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Ever since the Red Army wrapped up Hillter's ashes 80 years ago, Russia has never stopped stockpiling munitions, preparing for "the Big One". Only an idiot would believe Western propaganda about ANYTHING it says about the Russian military. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:55, November 30, 2022 (EST)
And he United States and NATO are out of ammunition. The US always thought Russia would be a pushover, and it could be defeated through propaganda. That will not happen. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:57, November 30, 2022 (EST)
The United States could not defeat the goat herders of Afghanistan with either conventional weapons, or propaganda. Wake up! RobSGive Peace a chance 17:58, November 30, 2022 (EST)

More MSM misinformation

The USA did not fire the first shots. Russia made a big mistake by invading Ukraine and they are paying for it in Russian blood, wrecked/expended military hardware, treasure and trade. Conservative (talk) 17:59, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Bzzzt. Wrong. The United States fired the first shot with its Nazi proxies in 2014 who overthrew democracy. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:00, November 30, 2022 (EST)
It's one of the well documented Obama war crimes. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:02, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Psyop and propaganda ----> "Russian blood, wrecked/expended military hardware, treasure and trade". That did not happen, as you believe. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:06, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Just as the MSM attributes all the crimes of Democrats to Republicans, so too does the same MSM attribute all the crimes and failings of Ukrainians to Russians. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:11, December 1, 2022 (EST)
When Russia invaded in February, it had about 60,000 combat troops, with about 40,000 indigenous DPR and LNR militia troops. Total combat troops: 100,000. Russia had about 6,000 KIA, DPR & LNR higher (combined, less than 12,000 (The remainder of the Russian forces were support troops, people who handed out bread to civilians, construction workers, cooks and laundry, etc. Only half of whatever figure you see about Russian forces are always support troops who never see the front). By June, CIA/Ukrainian propaganda was already claiming it killed more Russians than Russia sent into combat. Even if you claim the 100,000 dead includes the Donbass Republics' forces, how then have they been fighting all along?) Virtually everything reported about Russia, number of casualties, war crimes, etc., is actually what Ukraine has done, or has been done to them. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:17, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Russia has to discount its oil to India/China so its profit margin is lower. And the same applies to having to discount their natural gas prices. China has inked a deal for Russian natural gas at half price through the end of this year.[19] Slimmer profit margins on oil/gas does not bode well for the Russians. Conservative (talk) 18:21, November 30, 2022 (EST)

(ec) Overall, the kill ratio has averaged about 8:1, meaning about 12,000 KIA on the Russian side. (Counting DNR, LPR, and the Wagner group will have to be left to later). Poland just reported 1,200 dead of a force of about 7,000, or 17% (injured is more than half the 7,000); if we take the lower figure of 400,000 total force (which I have used), 17% of 400,00 is 68,000 KIA. If we take the larger figure the Ukrainian sources themselves use of a 700,000 man force, 17% is 119,000 KIA, for comparison.
There are other methodologies used. But the consensus among watchers has been 100,000 Ukrainian KIA since June. All Russian and allied forces KIA combined are not higher than 15,000. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:30, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Europe may have banned Russian gas, but they are still buying Russian gas from China, India, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, etc, at a mark up.
Now you must understand the difference between "spot" price, and long term contract. The gas sold through the Nordstream pipeline was under a lower, long term contract price, not spot. So there is little difference as far as Russia's profit margin, but a big difference for the EU having to buy Russian gas from China at spot. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:30, November 30, 2022 (EST)
My man, your bonkers fan fiction is still claiming this happened. You've been categorically wrong re. every major inflection point in this war to date. Your "analysis" can be safely ignored. ConwayIII (talk) 18:48, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Have you looked at the troop disposition map lately? RobSGive Peace a chance 18:55, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Look at these widely used Western sources map, for example. This one hasn't been updated since September 11, and still has the Russians occupying Kerson. And this is considered one of the most authoritive. Western sources always delay bad news, but 3 months now? C'mon, man. I'll stick with my sources. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:02, November 30, 2022 (EST)
And why they stopped on September 11 is no mystery: that was the week, or actually in the middle of the period that NATO/Ukraine had 14,000 KIA in about 19 days. (the Russians had about 400 killed in that same period). But you know the Western media, they trumpeted Kherson as major victory, which they themselves now are evacuating. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:07, November 30, 2022 (EST)
No map that's piqued your interest is worth looking at. You're too stupid to even realise that the image linked above was a bit of sweaty Russian TV news fantasising about how the SMO might unfold. They weren't claiming it as having actually happened. But you did. Bravo, moron. ConwayIII (talk) 19:11, November 30, 2022 (EST)
The question is about Dnipro. Will the Russians take Dnipro, the city of Zaporozhye, and Odessa? That's certainly on the table now. It's upto NATO, if NATO wants to invade and start nuclear war. Ukrainian forces surely cannot hold the Russians back anymore. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:15, November 30, 2022 (EST)
lolwut? The Black Sea fleet currently has Very Important Business inspecting the coast of southern Crimea. I'm told they may be some time. ConwayIII (talk) 19:19, November 30, 2022 (EST)
The latest scuttlebutt just off the wire is, NATO plans on setting up a Patriot missile battery inside the border of Poland, and fire on Russian missiles hitting Kyiv. If that's how NATO wants to start WWIII, so be it, says Medvedev. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:24, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Oh, and since South Korea sent half its artillery and ammunition stockpiles to Ukraine (on the U.S. taxpayer dime) and has ramped up production, this might be a good time for ol' Kim jong-un to act on his fantasies. Well played, Blinken and Milley. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:27, November 30, 2022 (EST)

RobS, you wrote above: "Overall, the kill ratio has averaged about 8:1, meaning about 12,000 KIA on the Russian side. (Counting DNR, LPR, and the Wagner group will have to be left to later). Poland just reported 1,200 dead of a force of about 7,000, or 17% (injured is more than half the 7,000); if we take the lower figure of 400,000 total force (which I have used), 17% of 400,00 is 68,000 KIA. If we take the larger figure the Ukrainian sources themselves use of a 700,000 man force, 17% is 119,000 KIA, for comparison. There are other methodologies used. But the consensus among watchers has been 100,000 Ukrainian KIA since June. All Russian and allied forces KIA combined are not higher than 15,000."

My response:

"Scholars analyzing the Vietnam War frequently argue that the United States Army's fixation on body counts-the number of enemy dead-played a major role in contributing to America's failure to win against a third world nation with considerably fewer military forces".[20] Any yet, despite having a superior kill ratio, the USA ultimately wound up losing in Vietnam. The North Vietnamese eventually won.

Wars are not won by superior kill ratios or battles won. They are won by the attainment of objectives. If this war was fought to make Russia more secure, then the Russians have lost already. Even before the war, Russia had a shortage of young men and men in general due to its subreplacement birth rate and men having a significantly higher mortality rate compared to many nations due its sky high divorce rate, high rates of male alcoholism, etc. In addition, many young men have fled Russia to avoid fighting in this war and Russian soldier blood has been shed. In addition, military hardware has been lost/expended, treasure spent and its potential future market for oil and gas is now smaller/restricted.

There is a famous 1983 American movie called War Games. It's famous line was "The only winning move is not to play." Russia made a big mistake to get involved in the Russia-Ukraine War. The notion that aging Europeans with low military expenditures relative to their GNPS and/or that the small nation of Ukraine posed a serious threat to Russia and was about to attack it in a way that posed an existential threat is a rather ridiculous notion. Conservative (talk) 20:10, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Russian objectives have been met, and are being met: denazification and demilitarization. 100,000 Ukraine/NATO US is demilitarization; NATO/US is running out of weapons. Denazification is ongoing and also a political question. Which brings up back to the question of Kyiv and the Zelensky regime. Basically, Washington, NATO and particularly the Poles, are getting tired of Zelensky. Especially after that stunt he pulled trying to start WWIII. Nobody trusts him anymore.
You're making the error thinking the Russians get involved in wars in the same haphazard way, with the same lame objectives, that America does. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:21, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Question: Why do you repeatedly make a fool out of yourself repeating phrases like, "Russian blood has been shed by its soldiers. In addition, military hardware has been lost/expended, treasure spent"? Are you just too ignorant to read and digest a response? or think repeated bs propaganda will make it true? or have no respect for other people's research, opinions and analysis?

Do you think you are the smartest person in the room, and that's why you ignore responses to the bs you culled from MSM? RobSGive Peace a chance 20:28, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Here, look at your tax dollars at work; with your point of view, it will needlessly, and senselessly continue for a long time. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:32, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Wake up. The Russians have prepared for direct war with the United States for a long time - decades before you were ever born. It's a bunch of Democrat/globalists, beginning with Biden, Obama, Hillary, Kerry, Nuland (with McCain and Lindsey's help) that figured now would be a good time to have that war. They tried to get Trump out of the way so they could go ahead with it (first thru Russiagate, then impeachment). If you're the brilliant geopolitical analyst you pretend to be (apart from MSM bs talking points), you seem to have overlooked a few dozen factors. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:40, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Even the article you posted on MPR, Talk:Main_Page#What_Mearsheimer_says, is attempting to, falsely, blame Putin. See also U.S. v. Concord Management. And smear Mearsheimer as a Putin stooge. RobSGive Peace a chance 22:11, November 30, 2022 (EST)
I corrected a sentence above because it did not convey my meaning. I meant to write: "In addition, many young men have fled Russia to avoid fighting in this war and Russian soldier blood has been shed."
I still maintain that the Russia-Ukraine War has been a losing proposition for Russia, Ukraine, Europe, the USA and the world at large. Conservative (talk) 20:48, November 30, 2022 (EST)
That last sentence you got right. What you haven't gotten thru your head yet is that the United States is responsible for this war. RobSGive Peace a chance 22:01, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Car accident courts and insurance companies when determining fault sometimes apportion the blame to multiple parties- like divvy up the blame for the cause of the incident to more than one party. I think this approach applies to the Russia-Ukraine War. Conservative (talk) 23:17, November 30, 2022 (EST)
Who threw the first punch? When America paid Nazis to whack the Heavenly Hundred and overthrow democracy, as the Russians naively believed America stood for and trusted (see Vladimir Pozner lecture at Yale), America is guilty. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:46, November 30, 2022 (EST)
You yourself just admitted America's duplicity in the Orange Revolution. But the Russians didn't see the hidden hand of the US State Dept. and Soros behind it (Well, the Russians in Russia did, but the Ukrainians and Russian-Ukrainians didn't; neither did the American public. But the Kremlin still did not interfere in Ukraine's sovereign internal affairs. Only a decade later, when US-backed Nazis started killing Russian speaking people in Ukraine, did the Kremlin get involved. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:54, November 30, 2022 (EST)


This is the city of Omsk. Does it look like they've expended any military hardware? The factory there, which is about one mile square, has been running 3 shifts daily for about 80 years. And there's dozens of other cities like this in Russia. In fact, there wouldn't even be a city with a military base/industrial plant in these remote parts of Siberia if there was not a munitions factory and storage depot there. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:03, November 30, 2022 (EST)

Then you have comments like this: "many young men have fled Russia to avoid fighting in this war". Why quotes you get from the liberal media impress you and sway your judgements about sissy boys and liberals, who most Russians say 'good riddance' to, is beyond me. RobSGive Peace a chance 05:28, December 1, 2022 (EST)

What Mearsheimer says

  • " It’s very important to understand that we invented this story that Putin is highly aggressive and he’s principally responsible for this crisis in Ukraine."
  • "I think there’s no question that his goals have escalated since the war started on February 24th, but not to the point where he’s interested in conquering all of Ukraine." (i.e. Putin was never interested in conquering all of Ukraine, another invented myth).
  • "The argument that the foreign-policy establishment in the United States, and in the West more generally, has invented revolves around the claim that [Putin] is interested in creating a greater Russia."
  • "The conventional wisdom in the United States is that it’s not about balance-of-power politics, and, in fact, Putin is an imperialist who is interested in conquering Ukraine for the purpose of making it part of a greater Russia. I don’t think that is the case."
  • " I don’t think that’s indicative that he is interested in conquering all of Ukraine and making it part of the greater Russia. He has never said that."
[In sum, Mearsheimer says the idea Putin wants to recreate the Russian Empire is "invented" bs.]
  • "Well, first of all, there’s no evidence that he had imperial ambitions before the war."
  • "If you look at the operation itself on February 24th, they made no attempt to conquer all of Ukraine."
  • "It doesn’t look like he was interested in conquering Kyiv."
  • "One might argue that Putin was lying about his motives, that he was attempting to disguise his imperial ambitions. As it turns out, I have written a book about lying in international politics—‘Why Leaders Lie: The Truth about Lying in International Politics’—and it is clear to me that Putin was not lying."
  • "For Putin to have said time after time that nato, that Ukraine in nato, was an existential threat to Russia, when in fact it wasn’t, and this was all done to disguise the real motive, which was to incorporate Ukraine into a greater Russia for the purposes of satisfying his imperial ambitions is an argument that is just not supported by the historical record. "

I stopped reading the article at this point:

Q. Who broke into the D.N.C.? I haven’t been following the latest on who it was.

A. "Look, I don’t know about this issue. I mean, you wanted to talk about Ukraine. You know what I mean? I would appreciate if you’d not use any of this discussion about the D.N.C. and so forth and so on. I mean, this is not my area of expertise."

Obviously, the interviewer and New Yorker editors are acting in bad faith, violating an agreement stated at the opening, " During our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity, we discussed why he thinks Putin told the truth about his motives for invading Ukraine..." RobSGive Peace a chance 17:03, November 27, 2022 (EST)
Note about "edited for clarity"; change "when" to "if" in this phrase, "For Putin to have said time after time that nato, that Ukraine in nato, was an existential threat to Russia, if in fact it wasn’t" changes the whole meaning and context purveyed to the reader, and makes it less ambiguous, or removes the ambiguity completely. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:25, November 27, 2022 (EST)
IOWs, being that Mearsheimer asked, "I would appreciate if you’d not use any of this discussion about the D.N.C.", and the New Yorker violated that confidentiality, it is a hit piece on Mearsheimer and his credibility, and should not be posted on MPR. We're not here to do the MSM's dirty work. RobSGive Peace a chance 22:15, November 27, 2022 (EST)
Yesterday: Mearsheimer: The West is playing Russian roulette.
Cons: For a guy who says you agree with Mearsheimer, I can't figure out why you never listen to what he says. RobSGive Peace a chance 05:02, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Today: The 2022 Holberg Debate w/ John Mearsheimer and Carl Bildt: Ukraine, Russia, China and the West.
Mearsheimer hands Atlanticist Nazi former Norwegian prime minister Carl Bildt his culu in his own hands. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:41, December 1, 2022 (EST)
It ought to be patently obvious by now to User:Conservative that there is a concerted effort to discredit Prof. Mearsheimer as a "Putin stooge", and his continued misuse and misquoting the respected scholar, Prof. Mearsheimer, as a fig leaf for his own confused take on the NATO war in Ukraine only serves to aid the effort to smear Prof. Mearsheimer. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:27, December 2, 2022 (EST)

2023 prognostications for NATO war

Let's try some testable hypotheses / theories of victory, eh?
Partial: Russian forces are pushed back to, or beyond, the 2014 LOCs by May 2023.
Complete: Russian forces are forced to withdraw from Ukraine's internationally recognised borders, including Crimea and the abandonment of the Sevastopol naval base, by Sept. 2023.
I'll even throw in withdrawal from northern Luhansk region by Feb. 2023 as an interim data point.
What you got, Captain Cauldron? Let's lay down some markers. ConwayIII (talk) 19:41, December 1, 2022 (EST)
The Bakhmut cauldron turns into another Verdun meatgrinder all winter; Germany faces a "1917 moment" and the people rise up and kick NATO out; everybody gets sick of Zelensky and he either gets the Mussolini/Ghedaffi treatment of flees to the West ala Shah of Iran & Marcos; Iranian color revolution gets squashed; China unites the country by invading Taiwan; North Korea attacks South Korea and Japan with missiles; Turkiye and Iran whack a bunch of Americans in Syria; Wagner Group and American forces face off in Africa; hybrid war comes to the West with sabotage, terror attacks and assassinations on Western "leaders". The Surovikin sledgehammer swings about January on Avdiivka. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:24, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Nice try, but that's not how this works. I've laid out three specific, time-bound predictions about the progress of the war in Ukraine, the longest term of which can be evaluated in < 12 month's time.
Since you're apparently so convinced of Russia's inevitable victory, you've presumably got some insight into how that's going to be achieved. So let's see it, Captain: three of your own, specific and time-bound to within 12 months hence, and confined to territorial gains / losses relative to the current front lines.
You've almost got a first. Surovikin swinging stuff at Avdiivka is meaningless, of course, but would you care to take a punt on its capture by Russian forces by Jan. 2023? ConwayIII (talk) 15:58, December 2, 2022 (EST)
I'm in the middle of reviewing updates, so gimme a couple of hours. But your premise and question is flawed from the gitgo: "territorial gains / losses". Russian objectives have never been "territorial gains/losses", but rather "demilitarization", i.e. destruction of enemy forces, which of course now includes NATO. And they've been effective at that. So to project anything, one needs to know about force configuration and the types of weapons NATO is sending in, as you say, over the next 12 months. Apparently, the Russians are preparing missile attacks on Western spy satellite systems now.
So if the Russians gain "territory" in space, how does that count? RobSGive Peace a chance 17:18, December 2, 2022 (EST)
BTW, any comments on von der Leyen's confirmation of 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers dead? or is she just as demented as Joe Biden in reading a teleprompter, or has the same staff that loads Kamals's teleprompter, or is just as ignorant as all the other civilian "authorities" in NATO and the West about military matters? or does she and her staff just think 100,000 dead Ukies is just a joke? and the rest of us peons are just ignorant idiots who will believe any line of crap? RobSGive Peace a chance 17:23, December 2, 2022 (EST)
Prognostication 1: Being that the Russian objective is not to "conquer territory", but rather destruction of enemy forces and warmaking ability, and the Russians hold the edge in space flight, short of nuclear war, we could anticipate destruction of Western satellites, which could affect internet communications, GPS positioning, and ground or bankrupt Western commercial air travel as well as affect shipping on the high seas (the only thing preventing such action is Russian consideration of NATO reprisal actions on their own military-space infrastructure. However, given these satellite systems are responsible for killing Russian soldiers - that, and Russian public opinion, can pressure Russian military and political leaders to take action if they anticipate they can come ahead in the end. The Russians have launched some 27 satellites in the past two months. Some possibly are military communication satellites; others may be suicide satellites to take out NATO & Western communication systems. Iran and China likewise have such capabilities.) RobSGive Peace a chance 18:53, December 2, 2022 (EST)
Prognostication 2: Being that Russia and China both hold the edge in hypersonic missile technology, and US says it won't catch up to 2025 (plus the added burden of putting an effective hypersonic into mass production), we can anticipate Russian use of hypersonics before that 2-year timeframe, and possibility scenarios like Prognostication 1 being played out before the US can make retaliatory response with hypersonics. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:03, December 2, 2022 (EST)
Put up or shut up, my man. Territorial change is the one metric that constrains your otherwise pathological mendacity, because the Russians are always forced to report it accurately in the end.
It's also an obvious measure of the relative success / failure of the SMO now that - according to the terms of the annexation - Ukraine is currently occupying sovereign Russian soil and threatening to take lots more of it. ConwayIII (talk) 19:22, December 2, 2022 (EST)
Bingo, which justifies nuking DC, Brussels and NY. That, and NATO killing Russian soldiers with satellites. As Putin and Karen Carpenter said, We've only Just Begun. Meanwhile, NATO is out of weapons.
Okay, let's discuss two fronts - northern Lugansk (sometimes called the Kharkov or Kremmenaya front). The Polish "War in Ukraine"" channel spelled out the strategy for encircling the Wagner group attacking Bakhmut, and eventually moving on Donetsk from the north back in September when Zelensky Offensive began. But reports say its too late. The Russian have been reinforced, the "Wagner line" has been constructed protecting their rear and Donetsk, and Ukie/NATO has weakeened itself with all its suicide attacks, In fact, reports say Liman is in danger of being recaptured right now, but I suspect the Russians will wait a little longer and make it part of a larger movement.
Bakhmut: Two theories: (1) Prigozhin alludes to turning it into a meatgrinder if Zelensky wants to keep feeding cannonfodder into it; (2) it's on the verge of total encirclement (the first textbook cauldron of the war), which then gives opportunities to advance in any direction. Soledar, Kramatorsk, or Avdiivka. My guess is the constant shelling from Avdiivka on Donetsk must be dealt with first. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:57, December 2, 2022 (EST)
Now, Dima at the "Military Summary" anticipates a big battle at Bakhmut, a city formerly of 10,000, on a scale similar to the Battle of Mariupol. There evidently aren't any building structures standing, civilians likely are long gone, and it's going to be a battle for a piece of land that sits on high ground. Which is why it's a strategic point.
Once Bakhmut is pierced, there are no trenches between Bakhmut and the city of Dnepr where a retreating force can dig in. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:05, December 2, 2022 (EST)
Rybar's daily minute and half reports are considered the most accurate. RobSGive Peace a chance 20:24, December 2, 2022 (EST)
Vague handwaving about the strategic value of Bakhmut is not a testable hypothesis. As you well know, it works like this:
  • Russian forces will capture Bakhmut by <month> 2023.
  • Ukrainian forces will withdraw from Bakhmut by <month> 2023.
  • Russian forces will capture Kramatorsk by <month> 2023.
  • Russian forces will recapture Kherson city by <month> 2023.
  • Russian forces will capture the entire Donetsk region by <month> 2023.
Feel free to go as big & bold or as paltry & piffling as you please, but commit or go home. ConwayIII (talk) 15:22, December 3, 2022 (EST)
I don't think you understand very much about war. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:26, December 3, 2022 (EST)
But specifically, to your question: (a) the war has already moved outside the territory of Ukraine; (b) "for as long as it takes." RobSGive Peace a chance 18:42, December 3, 2022 (EST)
Specifically to time frames, the two year window for the US to match Russian and Chinese offensive missile capabilities doesn't bode well for the West. The question is over priority targets. Satellites I believe will be the first targets, to shut down the Western propaganda media apparatus, which basically the West believes it can win the war with. Once the information flow is cut off, then what targets back on earth are priority.
Most American's still don't know that about 90% of the population will be dead within 90 days once the power grid is shut off. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:00, December 3, 2022 (EST)
Great stuff, Captain. So just so everyone's clear for the record, this site's foremost military analyst & war correspondent can happily assure the world that Russia's victory is inevitable, and yet is unable to advance any theory of victory or even offer a single testable proposition that might point towards one.
How about you go write in that moonbase now seeing as we've established fan fiction is all you're good for? ConwayIII (talk) 19:48, December 3, 2022 (EST)
Biden says negotiations can began after Russia withdraws its army; Putin says Russia will withdraw its army when the objective of demilitarizing Ukraine is complete. So the answer to your question is there - once Ukraine is demilitarized of NATO's war making ability, the Russians will withdraw (the idea Russia is trying to "capture" or "conquer" territory is totally a Western propaganda fabrication. NATO colonialism and adventurism is the aggressive party here, trying to "capture" territory). The war has evolved into a hybrid war now, with terror attacks and assassinations outside Ukraine. RobSGive Peace a chance 00:30, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Nope. There's enough vague blather in the annexation decree to allow Putin to be pretty creative re. what is / isn't Russian territory he's retreating from, but there's no grand Mission Accomplished skedaddle on offer anymore.
The ultra-nationalists know he's f_____ it. The mafia-business-as-usual types know he's f_____ it. The old school Soviet / KGB types know he's f_____ it. None of them, however, are remotely clear on how to unf___ it, and so, in the meantime, they're content to watch his authority bleed out and wait for good, clean shots at him and each other. ConwayIII (talk) 17:37, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Let me just say, a Kremlinologist you're not. You should get a job with the CIA RobSGive Peace a chance 18:24, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Laying aside internal Russian politics, the objective never was to conquer Ukraine. The objective was demilitarization - first of Ukraine, then, if necessary, the de-NATOization of Western Europe. NATO itself activated that Russian contingency. So this is where we are today.
And the latest news is, India has rejected the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's overture to join the "North Atlantic" treaty organization. Evidently, Putin is winning the global political war, as NATO commits economic suicide.
Military blocs are created to defend trading blocs. But this military alliance has long outlived its usefulness. And nobody buys that "democracy and freedom" rhetoric anymore, not after seeing the genocidal war crimes NATO has committed against the global South. We're in that phase Toynbee described as "the suicidalness of militarism." RobSGive Peace a chance 18:37, December 4, 2022 (EST)
This is a guy you should add to your watchlist: Brian Berletic. New US B-21 Raider Illustrates Waste in Western Defense Spending Giving Russia-China the Edge. RobSGive Peace a chance 19:04, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Nigerian President: Ukraine source of arms for Boko Haram, other terrorists in Lake Chad region

If true, Ukraine has become a state sponsor of ISIS (of which Boko Haram is a branch).[21]--Geopolitician (talk) 23:43, December 1, 2022 (EST)

Ukraine's just a proxy here; it's still US/NATO/Sullivan/Avril Haines, etc. RobSGive Peace a chance 23:48, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Well, evidently the Ukrainian puppet regime is still collaborating with terrorists. If it's going to be argued that all the evil activities perpetrated by Ukrainian nationalists are the result of strings being pulled by Western "internationalists," then I suppose contemporary Ukraine is possibly comparable to Vichy France. —LT (The Old Right was right!) Friday, 00:08, December 2, 2022 (EST)
There are numerous parallels that can be drawn, most recently the Afghan national regime.
To truly understand the Ukraine, or Russia for that matter, is a concept that most Americans and media simply don't quite grasp. The typical person living in Ukraine, or Rusia, they really are not political people. They don't involve themselves in politics, avoid it, think it's dirty business, don't like talking about politics, or thinking about politics. They are just ordinary people consumed with family, life, career, church, local community, etc. Political questions and decisions is something far away, removed from them, that they can have little impact on, don't wish to waste time with, and don't want to create enemies by aligning with one side or another.
The Germans were very much like this as well - until 1945, when they were forced to accept the responsibility for the decision to entrust to others their own fate.
Yes, every culture has its partisan political animals who dominate media, debate, government, etc. But your typical Russian or Ukrainian citizen, they are afraid to engage at any level, and even resent being "pressured" to take a side or a stance on a political issue or question. It's something to keep in mind when you hear "experts", East or West, talk about the "Ukrainian people" or the "Russian people". Those same people who are being "generalized", let's say, want no part of the discussion that they are being talked about. They are not political people. Call it a "Slavic thing." RobSGive Peace a chance 01:32, December 2, 2022 (EST)

Ukrainian fascism

This is what happened to an old women on a Kiev subway who said the Ukrainian armed forces are killers and she couldn't wait to be liberated by the Russian. Yes. the Galicians of Western Ukraine are becoming "Westernized"; this looks like what happens on New York & Philadelphia subways. Any wonder why Russians and Russian speaking people of Ukraine are resisting "Ukrainianization"? RobSGive Peace a chance 05:39, December 4, 2022 (EST) RobSGive Peace a chance 05:39, December 4, 2022 (EST)

So, this woman, who was born in Soviet times, took advantage of Gorbachev's glasnost to express an opinion, and was beaten and silenced by Western-backed fascists. So much for Western "liberal democracy". The Russians ain't buying it no mo. RobSGive Peace a chance 06:46, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Dems move up South Carolina primary

In 2020, Buttigieg won the February 28 Iowa caucus with 26.2 percent of vote, edging out Sanders, who got 26.1 percent. Biden got 15.8 percent. It took so long to count the vote that no one remembers Buttigieg's great victory. At the time, we didn't know whether Buttigieg or Sanders had won, but it was clear that Biden had lost the heartland. Did Biden supporters sabotage the count? The Clintons hated Sanders because he ran against Hillary in 2016 and they were in a position to arrange such things.

On second thought, maybe Biden did win. He got 16 delegates compared to 7 for Buttigieg and 12 for Sanders. The travesty in Iowa is a gift that keeps on giving. Buttigieg and the minor candidates suddenly dropped out, perhaps after being promised positions, and the Biden campaign was miraculously resurrected. Biden went on to defeat Sanders in the March 9 South Carolina primary.

Given this history, it is hardly surprising that Biden wants South Carolina to go first in 2024. The Democratic National Committee's rule making committee has voted to move the South Carolina primary to February 3. It's all about diversity, according to Team Biden. In other words, South Carolina has more black Democrats than Iowa does.

While it's hard to justify Iowa going first every four years, this proposal strikes me as narrowly self-promotional. Blacks will vote for the Dems no matter what and the party needs a nominee who has broad appeal. The campaign season is too long as it is. More early primaries is a step in the wrong direction. There is a good chance that Iowa or New Hampshire will respond to the DNC vote by scheduling a caucus or primary before February 3. No state should get a privileged "early primary" position. The first round of primaries should feature more than one state. Every primary should be held in a national primary season. The trend of moving up primaries can be blamed on the 1968 New Hampshire primary, which was held March 12 and had a major impact on national politics that year. Almost all the other primaries that year were held in May or June. PeterKa (talk) 07:49, December 3, 2022 (EST

The Iowa caucuses were rigged. RobSGive Peace a chance 18:48, December 3, 2022 (EST)
The schedule for 2024 approved by the DNC is South Carolina on Feb. 3, Nevada and New Hampshire on Feb. 13, Georgia on Feb. 20, and Michigan on Feb. 27. Other states will hold their primaries beginning in March. That assumes that the states don't have their own ideas on this issue, which I suspect they do. Before long, we will select party leaders for the next election right after the previous election, as in a parliamentary system. PeterKa (talk) 22:11, December 3, 2022 (EST)
I think I agree, this move will backfire. It extends the primary season, if South Carolina is that crucial. Campaigning will begin in November 2023. The idea presumably is to galvanize African American voters around a single front runner early. RobSGive Peace a chance 00:50, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Trump wants "termination of all rules"

I never cared for rules myself. Rules, shmules, I always say. But I'm not running for president. Did someone hack Trump's account? His latest post on Truth Social calls for "termination of all rules...even those found in the constitution." Here is Hinderaker: "Trump is finished." Perhaps this is related to the vote in Georgia, where control of the U.S. Senate hangs in the balance. It's a burn-it-down outburst like when Bill Clinton pardoned tax swindler Marc Rich on his way out of office -- and then blamed the Jews.
Update: Trump leads DeSantis 47 to 28 percent in a Zogby poll of potential Republican primary voters. Mike Pence came in third with five percent. The survey was taken November 9-11. I think its clear that we need to move on. It's not just the Truth Social post, which surely no one who was planning a serious campaign for president would write. Based on the results of the last two cycles, Trump can no longer win a general election. PeterKa (talk) 00:11, December 4, 2022 (EST)

What makes me think we're only hearing half the story? RobSGive Peace a chance 01:39, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Regardless of one may think of Trump's post, what is indisputable is that the Constitution does not provide a solution to a situation like what he describes. As in, there is no procedure laid out in the event of a stolen election, much like how there was no procedure laid out in the event that a state wishes to secede. Like Abraham Lincoln before him, Trump understands that when a constitutional crisis of this scale arises, it is virtually impossible to resolve it without resorting to acts that are themselves unconstitutional. Basically, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.--Geopolitician (talk) 02:04, December 5, 2022 (EST)
Call me a fool, but I have no idea in what context this statement was uttered. I vaguely have the impression it is somewhat related primaries, or the Dems changing the primary schedule or something or other. Who knows? Who cares without context? RobSGive Peace a chance 02:57, December 5, 2022 (EST)

Trump helped flatline liberalism. He further tanked trust in media. And he probably caused Elon Musk to buy Twitter and say that he is voting Republican

Obama helped make liberalism "cool" because he was well-spoken and charming.

Here is a graph of the political affiliations of Americans: U.S. Political Ideology Steady; Conservatives, Moderates Tie

You will notice that from 1992 to to 2004 liberalism may have grown 2 points (there is poll/sampling error though) which is liberalism growing 2 points in 12 years. However, from 2004 to 2018 liberalism grew 4 points.

There was bound to be some political backlash to Trump so from 2016 to 2018 liberalism still did grow a bit.

But if there is one thing that Trump definitely did and that was to attack CNN and fake news. America's trust in media has dropped 9 points from 2018 to 2021.[22]

Trump was also funny which took some of the coolness away from liberalism.

Liberalism dropped and then flatlined from 2018 to 2021.

Now it is becoming clear that liberals are the establishment and elitist. The corporate elite takeover of the Democratic Party started with Obama's romance with bankers who backed his campaign.

Twitter censoring the Hunter Biden scandals during the 2016 election may have prompted Elon Musk to buy Twitter.

Biden may damage the Democrat/liberal brand further too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Conservative (talk)

Duh, the Democrats just crushed your Red wave and took solid control of the Senate (meaning they don't Kamala as a tiebreaker anymore)
What planet are you on? I hope this isn't the start of another round of your destructive and demoralizing red wave cheerleading. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:30, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Graphs don't lie. Deal with it! Conservative (talk) 12:48, December 4, 2022 (EST)

The Birkbeck College, University of London professor Eric Kaufmann wrote in his 2010 book Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth? concerning America:

High evangelical fertility rates more than compensated for losses to liberal Protestant sects during the twentieth century. In recent decades, white secularism has surged, but Latino and Asian religious immigration has taken up the slack, keeping secularism at bay. Across denominations, the fertility advantage of religious fundamentalists of all colours is significant and growing. After 2020, their demographic weight will begin to tip the balance in the culture wars towards the conservative side, ramping up pressure on hot-button issues such as abortion. By the end of the century, three quarters of America may be pro-life. Their activism will leap over the borders of the 'Redeemer Nation' to evangelize the world. Already, the rise of the World Congress of Families has launched a global religious right, its arms stretching across the bloody lines of the War on Terror to embrace the entire Abrahamic family.[23]

On July 24, 2019, due to religious immigration to the United States and the higher fertility rate of religious people, Eric Kaufmann wrote in an article entitled Why Is Secularization Likely to Stall in America by 2050? A Response to Laurie DeRose: "Overall, the picture suggests that the U.S. will continue to secularize in the coming decades. However, a combination of religious immigration, immigrant religious retention, slowing religious decline due to a rising prevalence of believers among the affiliated, and higher native religious birth rates will result in a plateauing of secularizing trends by mid-century." Why Is Secularization Likely to Stall in America by 2050?

Victory is on the horizon! Conservative (talk) 12:50, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Why don't we add all your "Victory is on the horizon!" to Conservapedia proven right. Then I'll believe it. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:52, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Hispanics and black men are moving towards the Republicans. And the liberal, women libertines are not having babies! The writing is on the wall, amigo! Conservative (talk) 12:58, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Not two days ago you accused me of having an infatuation with race, and now you use it as the basis for your argument (And I'm the guy who built that coalition - not you). RobSGive Peace a chance 13:05, December 4, 2022 (EST)
The GOP controls the House by 3 votes after your Red wave. You know, at any given time, there are as many as 5 House vacancies caused death, resignations, etc. How much you wanna lay odds we'll see spate of deaths and resignations in the first 6 months of next year? RobSGive Peace a chance 13:04, December 4, 2022 (EST)
I think the Democrats are going to get crushed in the 2024 presidential election and the political betting markets (which tend to be more predictive than polls agree with me).[24] And by the 2030s, entitlement spending on the old and a very potential economic depression will crowd out discretionary spending. Liberalism will be starved for federal cash and will wither. Liberals will find it harder to spend other people's money. On top of this, the world is becoming more religious by the day with Christianity/Islam leading the pack (And conservative Christianity and religious fundamentalism which tends to be socially conservative is growing. See: Growth of religious fundamentalism). I still remain an optimist, but I will be preparing for a very economic storm in the 2030s.Conservative (talk) 13:15, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Each seat in Congress is worth $4.79 trillion (the size of the federal budget) divide by 535 (the number of legislators) = $8,900,000,000. Trust me, the Dems are working overtime right now to find the goods (or "flaws" as you say) on 3 GOP members. If you are the "realist" you claim to be, you need to stop making all your argument solely based on "ideology". RobSGive Peace a chance 13:18, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Busyness does not equal results. Hamsters run fast on their wheels, but don't go anywhere! A Republican will be sitting in the Oval Office in 2025. Conservative (talk) 13:23, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Well, you're 0-2 right now for the last two elections. If you were a sports handicapper, I'd bet opposite on the opposing team on your recommendations. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:29, December 4, 2022 (EST)
"Don't you think we could have got some other space cadet to hit Rabinga? Cheaper, too. $50 bucks." RobSGive Peace a chance 13:22, December 4, 2022 (EST)
I have found a website that compiles the data from all political websites to form a weighted average of the results. And since the political betting markets are better than the pollsters, I will be more informed on who is likely to win major elections. See: Essay: Political polls vs. political betting markets. Which are better? Also, there was no red wave in 2022 U.S. midterm elections, but it was a fun red cape to wave in front of Democrats for awhile. Olé! Olé! Olé!.Conservative (talk) 13:44, December 4, 2022 (EST)
You have to have a growth mindset if you want to progress in life as much as what is possible. So I don't beat myself up over failing to predict 3 past elections since I have been at Conservapedia. Instead, I took a more productive path and I found better tools to predict elections. This is a helpful investing skill since a Democrat with low growth policies who is against oil drilling can suppress the economy and the stock markets. Conservative (talk) 13:52, December 4, 2022 (EST)
We are done talking. You have vandalized this page and deleted my responses. You are not acting in good faith. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:57, December 4, 2022 (EST)
If I did delete one of your posts, it was by accident. My apologies if this was the case. Conservative (talk) 13:59, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Liberal indoctrination centers may soon litter America's landscape. Professor values will be on the decline

Colleges are liberal indoctrination centers. Amidst a steady stream of vitriol towards higher education, 1 million fewer students were enrolled in college than just two years prior.[25] This is the largest decline in history. Vox.com reports: "The empty factories and abandoned shopping malls littering the American landscape may soon be joined by ghost colleges."[26]

And get this:

Western Governors University is a private online university based in Salt Lake City, Utah. Scott Pulsipher, president of Western Governors University (WGU), which enrolled about 200,000 students online last year, said the number of 18-to-24-year-olds jumped to 11% of the student body from 6% five years ago.

Ryan Weger, 20 years old, was among the high-school students who enrolled at WGU during the pandemic. He earned a degree in a little less than a year for about $7,000 and now earns $65,000 a year as a data-center tech at Amazon in Northern Virginia. He also earned seven tech credentials while getting his degree.

“When I was considering going to WGU in high school the one con was that I wouldn’t get the campus experience,” Mr. Weger said. “But when I visit my friends in college I don’t feel like I really missed out on that much.”[27]

I am looking forward to seeing all the liberal ghost colleges littering the American landscape! It will be a landscape of victory! Conservative (talk) 10:50, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Phrasing like "And colleges encourage this trend..." is a false statement. Should read: "Some colleges encourage this trend" or "More colleges encourage this trend...". Many state colleges will not follow that trend. They will continue to milk the Pell Grant system for every penny they can get. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:34, December 4, 2022 (EST)
I am going to ignore your recent barrage of nitpicking - especially when you lack proof for your contentions! Conservative (talk) 12:45, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Ignorance is bliss. You need to learn how to play nice with others. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:46, December 4, 2022 (EST)
For example, I stopped reading your above thread of +937 bytes at "Trump helped flatline liberalism" because of the obvious flaw in the basic premise. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:50, December 4, 2022 (EST)
As I wrote above, graphs don't lie. Deal with it! Conservative (talk) 12:54, December 4, 2022 (EST)
I dealt with it the way most readers dealt with your +937 bytes of fantasy, pap, and lala land - I quit reading after the first four words. RobSGive Peace a chance 12:58, December 4, 2022 (EST)
(ec) Should read the other way around: "Liberalism helped flatline Trump." RobSGive Peace a chance 12:55, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Trump is often his worst enemy. But that trait is universal among humanity. Conservative (talk) 13:04, December 4, 2022 (EST)
The fact that you ignore the major issue of our time: election integrity, and continue making ideological arguments, proves you are not a "realist," as you claim. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:38, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Republicans are passing election integrity laws and are developing more of a backbone. More MAGA people became election workers/officials. In addition, California GOP candidates used legal ballot harvesting using churches and it won them the elections (see: Proven Ballot Harvesting Strategy That Will CRUSH The Dems in 2024!!!). Republicans are getting smarter at election processes. Conservative (talk) 14:10, December 4, 2022 (EST)

You're still missing the point: If you had devoted half the time and space you spent on MPR to encouraging grassroots involvement as election watchers and participation in local precinct events, instead of filling MPR with your fruitless and demoralizing cheerleading (which I warned you about last May), there might have actually been a Red Wave. But go ahead, close your ears and pretend to be too smart or too proud to listen to others' input, experience, or advice. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:29, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Instead of a Red Wave, you're going to carry a Big L until you learn you are not the smartest kid in the room, and you need to play nice, cooperate, and collaborate with others to be successful. Thank you. RobSGive Peace a chance 17:29, December 4, 2022 (EST)

Talk page vandalism

Please stop vandalizing talk page discussions. RobSGive Peace a chance 13:51, December 4, 2022 (EST)
I am not vandalizing talk pages. You are the one who removed one of my post. I guess you cannot bear to lose debates! Conservative (talk) 13:57, December 4, 2022 (EST)
What do you call this? You want me to upload the screenshots? RobSGive Peace a chance 14:01, December 4, 2022 (EST)
As far as my oversighting, I merely reworded one of my posts so it was less provocative while saying the exact same thing in substance. Not a big deal. Conservative (talk) 14:04, December 4, 2022 (EST)
Look, I'm not getting into the weeds with you on this. First you reworded it, then you reworded it again. Then you deleted it. Then you deleted my comment. You are not acting in good faith.
Simple rule: Engage the brain before you post. RobSGive Peace a chance 14:08, December 4, 2022 (EST)

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Again, if in fact I did delete a post of yours, I apologize.

I will also point out that in the past you purposefully deleted my posts and/or the deliberately obscured of my posts because you were losing debates. In addition, you have a penchant to relabel the title of talk page threads in order to try to "win" debates between us. So you are hardly the one to preach to me about this matter. Conservative (talk)

Another +541 and +537 bytes (= 1078) of nothing and nonsense after your demonstrated lack of good faith. Are you sure you don't want to make any changes or deletions before I waste any more time reading it? Thanks. RobSGive Peace a chance 14:23, December 4, 2022 (EST)

China drops Zero Covid

Big things are happening in China. Beijing, Shanghai, Zhengzhou, and Shenzhen are dropping the requirement for a negative covid test to use public transport. Chengdu and Guangzhou remain locked down. The battered Heng Seng Index rebounded by 3 percent in one day. I can confidently predict that everyone who has not already gotten covid will get it now, making the years of tight restrictions pointless. China has protests all the time, but this is the first time since 1989 that the authorities had to listen.
The covid situation in China is beyond insane. Here's a video of Chinese lining up in the snow for their daily PCR test. Without the test, their QR code switches to red and they become unpersons. The police are also switching the codes to prevent people from leaving Guangzhou, where the famously headstrong Cantonese live. Denied access to public transportation, these migrant workers trudge from Guangzhou to their hometowns in the winter snow. PeterKa (talk) 00:56, December 5, 2022 (EST)

This poses a grave political question for the Chinese bosses; they don't want people to get the impression that organized protests against the government can be effective. After the present crisis blows over, the hunt for "organizers" and troublemakers will secretly continue, and a few people will be framed up and made examples - even if in a public trial the official charges are not related to these events. RobSGive Peace a chance 01:02, December 5, 2022 (EST)
Then we also have the Lay flat movement, which likely is just as big, or bigger threat and drag on the economy longterm than Zero covid.
Just as in the West, Zero covid and lockdowns is likely more related to totalitarian control than public health. RobSGive Peace a chance 01:09, December 5, 2022 (EST)
Here is a video from South China Morning Post on the easing of covid restrictions. In a brief clip toward the end, it shows a platoon of police in Guangzhou using the "turtle" shield formation like a Roman legion. PeterKa (talk) 01:51, December 5, 2022 (EST)
Yep, they're looking for perps. They can't let this go. The difference is, anti-government actions can't go unpunished, unlike in the United States, where suspected anti-government sentiments and Capitol tourism can't go unpunished. RobSGive Peace a chance 03:02, December 5, 2022 (EST)