Conservapedia:Community Portal

(this page redirects from CP:COMPORT) This is the place to discuss issues of interest to the Conservapedia community.

Community Portal/Archives

This page contains some material that has been moved from Talk:Main_Page. We are attempting to get general discussion of issues relating to Conservapedia's content and policies on this page, leaving the main talk page for its original purpose of discussing the content of the Main Page.

If you have a complaint about another editor's actions, attitude, civility, or ideological leanings, place your complaint at Conservapedia:User complaints for full vetting from the community before the complaint makes its way up the administrative chain. Thank you.

If anyone wants to get in contact with the former Conservapedia editor User:Philip J. Rayment, I have his contact information

Montana is Philip Rayment wife's dog.

If anyone wants to get in contact with the former Conservapedia editor/Administrator User:Philip J. Rayment, I have his contact information.

I will need to get his permission of course before giving it out to someone of course. Conservative (talk) 20:15, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

Addressing extraneous matters

LT, I suggest you actually address what I wrote next time. I never said that Ukraine doesn't have a neo-Nazi problem. I explicitly said that they do albeit not as big as RobS and Putin state. Next, I will never adhere to some of your bizarre and/or errant theological positions which are not biblically sound (If one does careful Bible exegesis) and/or ahistorical and are promulgated by a church which has a very low retention rate (Namely, the Seventh-day Adventist Church).

As far as RationalWiki (RW) goes, they are a bunch of cowards who fail to support their various contentions and heavily censor their wiki as evidenced by their low edits to blocked editor accounts ratio at a wiki. But that censorship comes at a price. For example, they have had two distinct drop trends in their web traffic historically. The first occurred in the latter part of 2019 due to Google devaluing their search results in a big way. The second trend of lower and lower web traffic occurred right after they supposedly permabanned me (By breaking their own rule that said a vote of 66% is required to permaban someone. Nevertheless, I occasionally create sockpuppet accounts as of late). Now their website is becoming blander and blander due to their insipid and boring secular leftist pablum that less and less people want to read.

Lastly, you can rail over and over about my alleged copypastas/spam, but that doesn't negate the fact that my content still gets a lot of views (For example, Conservapedia:Atheism articles statistics) and that my content has been cited by a number of notable conservative organizations/individuals (Concerned Women of America, etc.) and conservative/liberal news outlets such as the Chicago Tribune, etc. Conservative (talk) 13:57, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

LT, please stay focused on the topic subheading. Other matters such as RW or Sheol, and personal criticism, only derail discussion. Thanks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:07, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

LT has become nastier and nastier towards me ever since I accepted some of his requests to debate theological matters related to Seventh-day Adventist Church. If he didn't want to hear contrary theologically views, he should have never asked me to debate. I did debate him cordially so his nastiness towards me is unwarranted. Now I don't bother accepting his theological debate offers and it is partly due to his nastiness. Conservative (talk) 14:16, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

Those debates and discussions should be confined to the appropriate threads and pages, and not spill over into discussion on unrelated topics. Both you guys need to show restraint on that matter. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:18, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

To reply to Conservative, my bold polemics in debates over Christian theology began not a result of his initial willingness to debate, rather much before then. Furthermore, my "nastiness" is not because of his initial willingness, but later unwillingness to have an in-depth discussion despite his persistence to share his preferred topics in voice calls.

In response to RobSmith, you yourself have derailed numerous discussions in the past. In Talk:Markan priority, when I brought up an insight on the ordering of events between the Synoptic Gospels which indicates Markan priority over the Augustinian hypothesis, you turned the discussion into yet another inefficient debate over the Sabbath. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Tuesday, 15:39, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

Sorry. I'm an idiot. Please forgive me. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:43, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

LT, I didn't want to go over and over the same theological topics in debate. Upon your request, I debated you before on those same topics. And for those theological issues, I didn't have a strong interest in debating you on those topics the first time. So there was not enough interest on my part to do a second round of debate on those same topics. Conservative (talk) 17:14, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

[EC] Around one-thirds to half of the time in those debates, you merely posted the opinions of external sites and barely formulated conclusive, Bible-based arguments yourself. And much of those points employed logical fallacies, such as presuming the validity of a doctrine based on majority opinion, i.e. "soul sleep is rejected by Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox Christians," etc.

Given how much you've written about Christianity on this site as a presumed expert, surely you would understand these doctrinal differences through and through? After all, what's the point of Christianity if it's merely reduced to ecumenical accommodation without doctrinal rigidity? What use is promoting Christianity through SEO internet evangelism if you ultimately propagate a watered-down variant which ultimately does not save "converts" from destruction because, let's say, the sites whose traffic you increase promote dangerous doctrines like once saved, always saved? Got Questions Ministries and CARM promote that line of thought. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Tuesday, 17:19, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

I have never said I was an expert in Christianity at this website or anywhere else. So if you presumed that I am an expert in Christianity that was your choice. But being a Christian, I do have a high interest in Christianity. Most of my content on this website was on atheism, creation/evolution and homosexuality. At this juncture, I rarely think about homosexuality and my interest in the topic of atheism has greatly waned. Conservative (talk) 17:32, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

Also, I gave you a list of religious forums to discuss the theological topics you wanted to discuss with someone so you have no legitimate reason to be angry at me let alone be nasty at me. Conservative (talk) 18:32, May 30, 2023 (EDT)

Something about Reuters, Russia, and Republicans

Spreading the LGBT movement to Ukraine? It's already in Ukraine. Anyways, I hope a Republican wins in the 2024 presidential election and a frozen conflict or armistice is worked out and US military funding to Ukraine is cut out or at least cut down. But if the war drags on for years, I would not be surprised. Both Ukraine/Russia have poor leadership and populations that are unlikely to develop thriving societies that will greatly have both peace and prosperity in the future. Conservative (talk) 13:22, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Russia faces shrinking middle class, rising inequality, study finds":

"Russia's middle class will shrink as social inequality grows over coming years, an economic study conducted by Russian experts suggested, as sanctions against Moscow and limited growth potential scupper development prospects...

Russia's economy proved unexpectedly resilient in the face of tough Western sanctions last year, but a return to pre-conflict levels of prosperity may be far off as more government spending is directed towards the military.

The study's most optimistic scenario sees real incomes exceeding 2021 levels by around 2% in 2030 and poverty dropping below 10% from 11.8% in 2022. In that scenario, the size of the middle class would still drop to 14%-31% by 2030 from current estimates of 20%-50%." Conservative (talk) 13:35, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

DeSantis updates

De Santis signs "strongest anti semitism bill in the United States".

Lol, look how he refutes the false accusation of the lib dems. Rob, you listening? De Santis is Pro-Israel and Anti-Nazi, Period. Those "protestors" were probably lib dem plants in the first place, perhaps funded by left-winger Soros or some such Anti-American people.

"Florida Governor Ron DeSantis on Thursday signed a bill described by one of its co-sponsors as “the strongest antisemitism bill in the United States...” https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/04/27/florida-gov-ron-desantis-signs-antisemitism-bill/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 23:24, June 11, 2023 (EDT)

No, I'm not listening. I'm paying attention the BS coming out of the MSM, like you do. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:02, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

See, your arguments make no sense. You pay no attention to facts and critical thinking, and are swayed by emotion and MSM BS. So when the MSM goes against your boy, what difference does it make? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:07, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

See, my arguments refute yours, and make complete sense. You claimed some Nazi Anti-Semites may be supporting De Santis. I showed even if they support him, he doesn't support them, and condemned Anti-Semitism in a strong bill. Leave aside whether they were actual Nazis or Dem plants. As for the leftist media, the media is AGAINST De Santis now, if you haven't realized, especially after he's started doing so well in the polls. We are fighting against the leftist media, and leftists everywhere, yet we will persevere, work hard, and win by God's Grace. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 00:14, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

That does not matter, what you or I think. What matters is what MSM reports (basically, DNC talking points) which gullible people like yourself swallow wholesale and cannot be reasoned with. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:31, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Right back at you. You swallow DNC propaganda against De Santis and then blame me for pointing it out. Not going to keep debating with you, but simply preach the Truth and move on. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 00:34, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Not really. If you've actually been following, I've been silent on DeSantis and pretty much the upcoming primaries. Trump I only cite in relation to the Biden DOJ's abuses. Confidentially, I'm appalled at the anti-DeSantis and anti-Trump accusations being hurled back and forth 7 months before voting even starts.

The focus right now should be on educating the public about Ukrainian Nazism and the Kyiv puppet regime. It's far too early for electioneering when people are ignorant about the facts of what is happening in the world right now. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:53, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Your "focus" can be on that. Since I obviously don't agree with you, my "focus" will be on different things, like Russian Neo-Stalinism.

As for it being too early, I don't agree with that either. Christian Conservatives should demand, at minimum, 6 week pro-life protections, especially because 55% would be ok with that (see below). Trump has refused to commit to that. Too bad. Christians/Conservatives then need to unite behind another Candidate, and De Santis obviously stands out. Trump calling himself "the Father of the Vaccine" and other issues also matter. You have freedom of speech to believe and say what you want. I have equal freedom to post other things I think are important.NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:13, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

You are deceived. "Neo-Stalinism" is Nazi propaganda you bit off wholesale. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:16, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

You are going to look awfully foolish if come the fall of 2024 Trump is running against Biden's support for Nazism. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:23, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

• Ukraine's 2016 Election Meddling Are Matters of Fact (yet you support the fascist regime).

• See also [7]

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:38, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

I care about saving lives and helping people. I'm not concerned about what you or anyone else thinks. Only what God thinks.

I'd rather fight a good fight and not win then do nothing and just complain about LGBT, as you do. De Santis will stop that. 02:39, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Your Ukraine Nazi buddies murdered 14,000 people before Putin's special military operation intervened; Christians are concerned about truth, yet you don't want to hear it. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:48, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

The Kremlin has lied so often its lies are not credible anymore. They claimed they wanted to save "Russian speakers", then burnt Mariupul, predominantly Russian speaking, to the ground. The Kremlin has caused over 10 MN to suffer: "Since then, more than 8 million Ukrainians have registered as refugees in Europe and another 5.3 million have become internally displaced, according to the U.N. refugee agency. But these statistics reflect only a small part of the struggle civilians are going through." https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2023/04/20/1160074401/ukraine-russia-war-refugees-displaced-people You refuse to see the Kremlin is on the evil side in this fight, and Ukrainian Self-Defense is 100% Justified. Gonna shake the dust off my feet after this response to you on this subject, as you don't have the ears to hear the Truth. "He who hath ears, let him hear". NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:51, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

LOL, NPR.

Here's the facts: Russia did not interfere in the 2016 elections - Ukraine did, and blamed Russia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:53, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

See for yourself: the Greenie weenies, the German war party backing Ukraine, "God is queer". I hope your comfortable with your neo-nazi allies. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 05:02, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

De Santis Allies set up a school to train a $100 Million door knocking Army

Things looking better and better than ever for De Santis. I predict he will both beat the Donald (Duck) and go on to beat Biden. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/06/16/desantis-door-knocking-super-pac/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 01:33, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

I saw that someone posted on the news page that African leaders complained America under Biden was promoting LGBT. Yes, it's a problem, but De Santis is the only one who can stop it. Btw, that's not a reason to support Commie China. Commie China was responsible for Covid through callous negligence and Africa is one of the Continents that suffered most because of Covid. Someone should tell the leaders that. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 01:33, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Oh, so now China is responsible for covid and not Fauci or the NIH; next you're going to tell us Russia blew up the Nordstream pipeline; destroyed the Kakhova dam, shelled itself at the Zaporozhe nuclear power plant, and committed the Bucha massacre. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:43, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Hey, guys. Long time no talk. I took a sabbatical back in February for personal reasons, but I've been frequently visiting and observing since then.

I'm now breaking my sabbatical to thank RobSmith for being the first admin (that I know of) to openly admit what I'd been saying all along: that America, not China, is responsible for COVID. I'd personally go further and accuse the CIA of being behind the Wuhan lab leak and framing CCP in order to create a justification for a future Sino-American war, but that's technically a seperate issue for debate.--Geopolitician (talk) 14:18, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

Welcomer back, sincerely. Let me humbly also confess, your points on the The Grand Chessboard were prophetic at the time. And your discussions of NATO terrorism and Mike Pompeo have also given me cause to pause and think in the intervening months, as well. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:27, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

Where did Covid come from? Where is Wuhan located? Why did the Chinese Communist Party lie about it? China lied, People died, and the world bled. Yes, Fauci is also responsible, for his dictatorial Covid policies which De Santis courageously opposes, while Trump calls himself "Father of the Vaccine" and supported Fauci. I choose Freedom over Faucism, I choose De Santis over Trump, I choose Democracy over Communism.NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:03, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

From your link: "Nearly 1 million Americans have died.[6]

Dr. Robert Redfield, former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), told CNN that he believes the virus escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) lab in China. “I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human.”[7]"

Who is responsible for those 1 MN American deaths, plus millions of others around the world? The CCP. Own it.

"Why does this matter? Because for years, the mainstream media dismissed the lab leak as a conspiracy theory, and as a result, the Chinese Communist Party and the Wuhan Institute of Virology were allowed to deny, deny, deny, while the virus ravaged the entire globe and killed millions of people ...

That is why I introduced the resolution to force the communist China to accept responsibility for its gross deception and mishandling of the coronavirus outbreak. If the Administration won’t stand up for the American people, the People’s House must.

Moreover, the United States’ response to the pandemic has cost trillions of dollars. China shouldn’t just be made to take responsibility for the pandemic, the CCP should pay for it. My bill would empower the U.S. to withhold payments on debt owed to China equal to the amount spent on pandemic response.

China lied, and people died. It’s time that China faces the consequences." https://mast.house.gov/china-debt NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:05, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

You are simply brainwashed to accept American xenophobic propaganda about any nation or people anywhere in the world. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:21, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Thank you RobSmith for admitting another thing I'd been saying all along: That much of what we hear in the news about China is neocon propaganda designed into conditioning us into supporting Brzezinski's xenophobic and genocidal "Eurasian Balkans" project.--Geopolitician (talk) 14:18, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

That's Commie Propaganda, that opposing Commie Dictators/Terrorists like Mao or Xi is "xenophobic". I stand with the good Chinese people suffering under Communism and like Pope St. John Paul II, Ronald Raegan, Lech Walesa and others, want to liberate them from Communism.

"Can you name the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century? No, it wasn’t Hitler or Stalin. It was Mao Zedong.

According to the authoritative “Black Book of Communism,” an estimated 65 million Chinese died as a result of Mao’s repeated, merciless attempts to create a new “socialist” China. Anyone who got in his way was done away with—by execution, imprisonment or forced famine.

For Mao, the No. 1 enemy was the intellectual. The so-called Great Helmsman reveled in his blood-letting, boasting, “What’s so unusual about Emperor Shih Huang of the China Dynasty? He had buried alive 460 scholars only, but we have buried alive 46,000 scholars.” Mao was referring to a major “accomplishment” of the Great Cultural Revolution, which from 1966-1976 transformed China into a great House of Fear." https://www.heritage.org/asia/commentary/the-legacy-mao-zedong-mass-murder Communism is responsible for 100 MN+ Deaths. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:48, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Sorry, but you're in bed with totalitarian fascists who have destroyed American democracy. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:30, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Simple Projection on your part. I stand with De Santis, and De Santis will help take down those Covidian and Totalitarian Fascists you're in bed with. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 04:17, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Where did DeSantis get $100 million from? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:18, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Trump we know is his own man. He spends his own money. He can't be bought. DeSantis Megadonor, Billionaire Head of Citadel Investments Ken Griffin, Explains Why He Purchased Ron DeSantis for 2024 and What He Expects from His Investment. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:27, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

• Here’s Why the Big Club and People Managing Ron DeSantis Hate Donald Trump

• As Expected Twitter Begins Limiting Reach of Content Critical of Ron DeSantis

• Donald Trump’s America First -vs- Ron DeSantis and the Multinationals

• DeSantis 101

• Video – Governor Ron DeSantis Advocates for Politicians to Be Owned by Billionaires, Laments Campaign Finance Limits

• REMINDER: The Core Battle Begins Within the Republican Party

• Ron DeSantis Wins the Coveted George Soros Endorsement – Describing DeSantis as “Shrewd, Ruthless and Ambitious”…

• Details Surface of How Ron DeSantis Is Using a Registered Foreign Agent to Assemble His Online Influence Campaign

• Big Picture DeSantis Corporate Club Plan and Some Site Note Reminders

• Returning to Neocon Roots – DeSantis Backtracks on His Tucker Carlson Ukraine Position as Territorial Dispute, Now Says “I think it’s been mischaracterized,” and “Putin is a war criminal”

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:56, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Oh, I got ahead of myself. In response to the "$100 million door knocking campaign", we have these two reports from months ago:

• Team DeSantis Focused on Creating Astroturf Attendance for 2024 Campaign Rallies
• Team DeSantis Expand Astroturf Operations – Hire Team Cruz and Team Youngkin, Immediately Begin Fake Push Polls

A bought-and-paid for mob by globalists and multinational corporate donors is not really a grassroots operation. It's more akin to a Soros Foundation/NED color revolution. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:27, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

The technical terms are Hertz-Rent-A-Mob or Astroturf. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:31, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Trump sided with Disney in its efforts to corrupt kids with the LGBT Agenda against De Santis. That should tell you all you need to know about whose cause is righteous and whose is wicked, but unfortunately you don't have eyes to see. I suggest you stop cussing/swearing so much and praying much more. Pray and read the Word for at least 1-2 hours a day, and more on weekends. Ask God to give you Wisdom and guide you. Trump also criticized De Santis on his 6 Week Abortion Heart Beat Bill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qecgxM-ErcU Trump did some ok things last time around, but his time has passed, and his recent stances are very problematic, including supporting Disney. De Santis will never bow to Child Genital Mutilation supporting Disney, no matter how many 100s of Millions of Dollars anyone throws at him, or the Woke Mob, and he has a large number of supporters, including wealthy ones. They have perfect right to support their Conservative Candidate.NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 09:41, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Why should I believe you about Trump and Disney? I don't know, I didn't follow whatever it is your talking about, and you have a habit of using the same sources of information that lied about Donald Trump for the past 8 years. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:32, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

My apologies, but I have more pressing issues with moral considerations and consequences than Mickey Mouse and Disney. Somebody's gotta do it, because you sure aren't doing it. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:34, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

A 20 second Google Search would have shown you, certainly less than the time it took you to give those 10 or so links above: "Gov. Ron DeSantis said by attacking him over his campaign against Disney, former President Donald Trump is "taking the side" of a multinational corporation sexualizing children.

"When he’s taking Disney’s side against me, I just kind of wonder. OK, I get that he wants to hit me, but don’t take the side of a multinational corporation that wants to sexualize kids," DeSantis said" NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 11:49, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Ooooh, now I understand. Trump and others criticized the DeSantis Admin mishandling of the lawsuit with Disney. That is not the same as "Trump sided with Disney." Man, you are never going to make it as a bona fide propagandist if you keep getting hoodwinked by BS. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 12:02, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

This evidently is what you are talking about: Team DeSantis Say They Have Been Hoodwinked by Disney Inc. as Orlando Board Changed Covenants Before New Officials Appointed:

"Days before the five DeSantis appointees showed up to take control of Walt Disney World zoning board in Orange County, the former board held a public hearing to codify pre-existing rules and covenants extending for “21 years after the death of the last survivor of the descendants of King Charles III, king of England living as of the date of the declaration.” Essentially, the new board is moot, except for deciding on roadways and bridges.

As a result, a long and protracted legal battle is now anticipated, which will likely cost Florida taxpayers millions in lawyer fees as the appointees of the board try and challenge the construct put into place prior to their arrival."

So apparently we caught you in a red-handed lie. Some might call it an "exaggeration." But now I have cause to doubt if you really care at all about victims of the LGBT agenda and genital mutilation. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 12:20, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Nope, I spoke the Truth. Read this: "Florida's two most powerful Republican presidential hopefuls sparred on Memorial Day over Walt Disney World. Speaking on Fox & Friends show Monday morning, Gov. Ron DeSantis took former President Donald Trump to task for "taking the side of Disney in our fight down here in Florida." https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/politics/2023/05/30/memorial-day-sparring-between-desantis-trump-on-woke-disney/70267192007/ De Santis is the only one who has the Courage of Conviction to take on Woke Mob and Win. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 13:48, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

You have no evidence that Trump ever "sided with Disney." Period. I wouldn't call you a malicious liar, but rather naive with poor judgement and reading comprehension skills. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:49, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

De Santis calls out the blasphemies and LGBT promotion of the Anti-Catholic hate group, the Dodgers

Trump nowhere to be found in combating LGBT. Surprise, surprise. Just complaining American establishments, including the American military, sadly, under both Biden and Trump, promoted and promotes the LGBT Agenda, solves nothing. De Santis can fight it and win. The solution is Good Conservatives like him, not WokeSymps like Trump.

"Good on the thousands who showed up at Dodger Stadium to protest this anti-Catholic hate group.

The virtually empty stadium for the game itself was a powerful image – Americans are fed up with the nonsense and are fighting back."

https://twitter.com/RonDeSantis/status/1670140388684840961

“We’re hoping that the Dodgers will see the amount of Catholics and Christians showing up here today peacefully,” protestor Anthony Rodriguez told KTLA outside of the stadium. “We’re showing that we’re not budging. We’ve drawn a line in the sand and we’re putting our faith first.” https://nypost.com/2023/06/16/dodgers-sisters-of-perpetual-indulgence-event-draws-thousands-of-protesters/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 08:07, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

For the Dodger's game in question, the Dodgers recorded an attendance of 49,074, slightly higher than its league-leading average of 47,800.[8] But the attendance for the pre-game anti-Catholic group that was pro-LGBTQ was a pretty empty stadium.[9] Conservative (talk) 08:44, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Overtime, the pro-gay and pro-abortion blue states will lose electoral college votes relative to various red states because they are having a lower level of births plus many people are leaving their states to move to red states. Conservative (talk) 08:50, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Right now, the political betting websites say DeSantis has a 23% chance of winning the GOP primary while Trump has a 63.4% chance of winning the GOP primary.[10] And the website that compiles these statistics has a pretty good batting average in terms of their forecasts being right.[11] Conservative (talk) 08:55, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Nice Info, Cons. Thank you. Good to know. God Bless. Of course, I expect that 23% will increase in time as De Santis campaigns more. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 09:50, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

There's a major contradiction here: both you guys supposedly oppose the spreading of the LGBT movement, yet both you guys firmly support spreading it to Ukraine. Some might call that hypocrisy. I just call it being misinformed and misguided. Until you reconcile that difference between foreign and domestic policy, you both will be just spinning your wheels, unable to build a coalition to move forward. These posts are just flatulence. RobS^{Give Peace a chance}

Spreading the LGBT movement to Ukraine? It's already in Ukraine. Anyways, I hope a Republican wins in the 2024 presidential election and a frozen conflict or armistice is worked out and US military funding to Ukraine is cut out or at least cut down. But if the war drags on for years, I would not be surprised. Conservative (talk) 13:59, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

How did the LGBT movement get in Ukraine? Oh, that's right. With money from the Soros Open Society Foundation that Soros received from the US Agency for International Development, according to the CIA's color revolution playbook. I forgot. But never mind; interfering in another country' domestic affairs is illegal under international law, just as invading another country is supposedly illegal, as well. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:48, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Ukraine gained its independence in 1991. I suspect its Western drift likely grew after the fall of the Soviet Union and further accelerated after its independence.

I hope this clarifies things for you. Conservative (talk) 22:16, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Ukraine's Western drift was well underway when Ukrainian nationalists (whom the record will show in MPR/talk Archives that you praised as heroes a year ago) when they allied with Hitler to slaughter Jews, Russians, and Poles. When Galicia was part of the Polish, Austrian, and German Empires long before is when "Ukraine" (a misnomer) drifted to the West began. It never gave up its language, alphabet, or allegiance to the Orthodox Church. It never bent the knee to the Pope, or became Romanized under Polish hegemony; it never embraced Northen German Protestantism under the Prussian state, and never embraced Austrian Catholicism, either.) Under Clinton and the neocons however, it did begin embracing gay rights and atheism, and under Obama, with the help of the CIA, it saw a resurgence of its Russophobic Nazi past. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:04, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

De Santis channels Churchill: we will fight [the Woke] in education, in the halls of Congress

"DeSantis: As president, I'll recognize that the woke mind virus represents a war on the truth so we will wage a war on the woke. We will fight the woke in education, we will fight the woke in corporations, we will fight the woke in the halls of congress, we will never ever surrender to the woke mob ... we will leave Woke Ideology on the Dustbin of History" https://twitter.com/i/status/1665086349483835392

Churchill had said of the Nazis: "I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our island home, to ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone. At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of His Majesty's Government – every man of them. That is the will of Parliament and the nation. The British Empire and the French Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength.

Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender." This is what Good Leaders do. Churchill did, De Santis is doing it in Florida, and will do it across America if he is elected. And not only in America, America has more influence on NATO than any other single country. The ideology that dominates America will dominate NATO too. That's why it's so deadly if Woke Ideology dominates America but so incredibly positive for us Conservative Christians if Conservative Christian ideology is dominant, as De Santis will do. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:19, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Interesting Churchill quote. Too bad you don't understand it. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:51, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

"The British Empire and the French Republic, linked together in their cause". Here's a clue: As late as 2012 when the Syrian regime change operation was under way, Wikipedia literally still reported "Syria won its independence in 1941 from France when France liberated Syria from France." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:50, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

But answering that question gets into the weeds a little bit, and how propaganda from World War II, that were lies then are lies today. Look at this fact: both the British Empire and Third French Republic were destroyed in WWII, relegated to the ash heap of history, never to arise again. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:02, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Trump has lost six points in Republican voter polls to De Santis

Boom! Give it another 2 months, especially after the 1st Republican Presidential Debate, and I predict De Santis will be ahead of Trump. https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/donald-trump-loses-6-points-in-republican-voter-polls-following-indictment-report-101687314137749.html

Also, noteworthy, De Santis beats Biden. Trump does not: "Joe Biden trails Ron DeSantis 43% to 44% at present, according to the DailyMail.com/J.L. Partners survey ...In a hypothetical general election matchup, President Joe Biden has a slight lead over Trump 48 - 44 percent among all registered voters" https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/ron-desantis-fares-better-against-joe-biden-than-donald-trump-in-2024-contest-for-white-house-poll-shows-101687136521996.html NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:18, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

For those who claim De Santis needs to wait till 2028, if he did, Trump will lose, and then maybe run again in 2028? No, De Santis 2024.NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:19, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Yes, it's interesting how many fake polls and astroturf $100 million can buy. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:30, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

But I do wish to thank you and congratulate you on finding a news source that I would regard as more neutral and independent versus the blatant CIA & Nazi agitprop sources you've been in the habit of using. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:38, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Trump support dips below 50% in latest poll

De Santis would almost certainly beat him in a head-to-head contest. Whether he can do so in a crowded field remains to be seen.

"In the latest poll, Trump received 47% of the vote, compared to 52% in the same poll one month prior in May.

The poll also asked respondents whether they would consider voting for a candidate or never consider voting for a candidate. Those who would consider voting for Trump remained the same at 31% from May. Those who said they would never vote for Trump went up from 16% in May to 23% in the latest poll." https://www.benzinga.com/general/politics/23/06/32937442/trump-support-dips-below-50-in-key-poll-is-an-overcrowded-field-hurting-odds-for-desantis NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 10:26, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Why does a nationwide poll of random adults not identified as Republican primary voters matter?

Never mind. I know the answer. Propaganda, intended for brainless boobs.

A nationwide poll of random adults not identified as Republican primary voters is basically an apples and oranges argument. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:07, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

You are even ignoring the history here. It's only June 2023. In late 2015, CNN gave Trump approximately $2 billion in free airtime with fake polls to promote Trump under the theory that Trump would be the easiest GOP candidate to beat, given Hillary's baggage and the fact that she was under criminal investigation by Comey and Strozk at that time, while dedicating no airtime to Hillary's criminal investigation. We've known since Trump won in 2016 that CNN will spare no efforts in lies to defeat Trump again, as it did in the 2020 election.

Basically, if I were DeSantis and you were my campaign manager, I'd fire you for having such an openly disdainful attitude toward the stupidity of the American voter. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:18, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

How silly. It's you who would be fired. You didn't even read properly before going off on your rant: "Overall, 47% of Republicans and Republican-leaning registered voters say Trump is their first choice for the party’s nomination for president, down from 53% in a May CNN poll. Support for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis held steady at 26% in the latest poll" https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/20/politics/cnn-poll-trump-indictment-republicans-2024/index.html (1) They are Republican and Republican leaning registered voters (2) Support is down 5-6 points in the same poll (3) that too in only one month (4) so imagine 2 or 3 months from now (5) they show that Trump's support is on a downward trajectory. It's very clear you are not interested in beating the LGBT Agenda, in fact you have no clue how you would even begin go about beating it. We who do will continue to support De Santis. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 14:27, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

My apologies. You're right. It's CNN. I didn't read it. I assumed "random adults" meant "random adults". RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:40, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Question: "random adults" would include non-voting illegal immigrants, wouldn't it? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:47, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

DeSantis Helped Conceal The Truth About Jeffrey Epstein’s Sex Crimes In Florida

Hmm, is this MPR-worthy? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:35, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

De Santis with Kayleigh McEnany on Fox

[pls leave this at the bottom of the page if possible. only the interviews, rest can go on top. thanx]

McEnany was a big time supporter of Trump last time. She's keeping her options open this time, like many others, and likes De Santis a lot.

This is a hoax:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqYkfZ4XKHs

The Anti-Woke Majority is getting stronger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcCMKUtOkg4

It's simple. If you care about defeating Woke, De Santis is objectively the best Candidate there is. That's true on mask/vaccine mandates/Covidianism as a whole as well. "Live Free or Die", right? NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:19, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Sundance of the Conservativetreehouse just did an interesting hit piece on DeSantis. You should read it, so at least you are prepared for what may be coming. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:28, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

I'll give it a read. Meanwhile, listen to these two interviews, this time of Trump:

"We have lost people because you supported the Jab" - Republican Voters to Trump https://twitter.com/i/status/1671600984059944960

"TRUMP: “For some reason” people don’t like the mRNA COVID shots.

Trump once again refuses to acknowledge any of the adverse effects." https://twitter.com/i/status/1671293882481483778 NishantXavier^{[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Chri}

Nah, I don't follow these day-to-day events related to 2024 presidential election politics - I don't have to - Sundance (and a few others) keep me informed. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:41, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) Trump, DeSantis, even Biden don't interest me at all viv-a-vis as being 2024 candidates at the moment. I somewhat keep on eye on Biden cause when the psychosis finally breaks, we'll be stuck with Kamala for awhile. RFK Jr I promote cause he offers an alternative to Biden (but I don't need to hang on his every word). Zelensky makes me wanna puke, even just the site of him, so I handled his whole life and career in a few days back in February 2022. I am riveted moment-by-moment on the fate of Zelensky's two top Nazi advisors, Zaluzhny & Budanov. President Xi I pay little attention to, and will have to update some content sooner or later. President Putin on the other hand, I have to pay attention to every word spoken in public - cause you cannot get it in Western mainstream media, only lies that threaten my very existence and life on this planet. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:53, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Read your article. Very poorly argued. Take this: "The WHOLE reason DeSantis was the most popular Governor throughout his first term, was a CON; EVERY action he took as Governor, was a political calculation planned and intended to create the image of “the free State of Florida” and RDS as “Trump lite”."

Rebuttal: (1) De Santis isn't Trump lite; he is his own man, it's his contrast with Trump, e.g. his strong opposition to the LGBT Agenda, and Vaccine Mandates, that makes his candidacy so interesting; (2) De Santis is a Solid Pro-Life Conservative, he's enacted a 6 week Abortion Heartbeat Ban. (3) De Santis has Military Service, Trump does not. I could go on. The contrast between the two is very evident. We are not trying to destroy D. Trump, btw, he can continue to live in Florida, and De Santis will almost certainly pardon him if he is indicted or something. But we are clear-eyed on the need to defeat him in the Primaries in order for Anti-LGBT, 6 week pro life bills etc to become part of the National Republican Agenda. That's because De Santis and Trump represent two very different agendas of conservatism. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:45, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

"he is his own man" - No he's not. He's owned by the people who gave him $100 million for an astroturf door knocking campaign, per your own source. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:53, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Look, I understand what's going on here. It's a generational thing. The Millennial generation is the majority now and wants to take over. We boomers went through the same thing when we had to wait for Papa Bush and Bob Dole to get out of the way (while the "Best and the Brightest" of our generation - Bill Clinton & Baby Bush carved our footprints into the sands of time).

If Trump weren't running, I'd probably be behind DeSantis 100%. They only thing is, Trump is the only candidate in about 40 years who understands the problems and what needs to be done, whereas DeSantis is part of the problems that have plagued the American political system for as long as I can remember. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:04, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

I'm a millennial, and I wouldn't back DeSantis even if Trump weren't in the race. I'd vote third party before voting for that man.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:34, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

With the release of Matt Walsh's "What is a Woman" exposing the Trans LGBT Agenda, and its huge audience of millions of viewers, following a retweet by Elon Musk, the momentum and opportunity of a lifetime is here to rise up and banish the Woke Agenda forever. De Santis did it in Florida, he can do it across America. Unfortunately, under Trump, America continued to promote LGBT policies, even pushing other nations to do so. America has vast international influence also, whether on Europe or even beyond. The ideology that dominates America will, in large measure, dominate or be influential in much of the world. That's why I'm paying attention to it, and praying God's Will be done. Let's see how it goes. The more I hear/see from De Santis, the more I like it. You can't run or be a credible candidate without being able to raise some money. But De Santis is not owned by anyone, his not backing down on Disney and being strongly anti-woke shows that. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 18:23, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Now you raise some interesting and valid points. I fear tho you don't quite understand the problem. And the president is not a messiah.

• Unfortunately, under Trump, America continued to promote LGBT policies, even pushing other nations to do so. BINGO. Now, can you explain why that is so? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:32, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Speaking of Matt Walsh: "Ep. 1183 - The Plot By LGBT Activists To Stigmatize Sanity And Normalcy" https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1671965419417264128 NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 18:24, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Lemme 'splain how we got here. In 1980, Ronald Reagan was the oldest person ever elected president at the age of 70 cause the boomer generation - then between 25-35 - of which there were many (why they call them boomers) and a clear majority was the generation of sex, drugs, rock n' roll. So the World War II generation wasn't ready to hand over leadership to its irresponsible children. Boomers even agreed. It was another 12 years before a boomer, then in his 40s, was elected president.

What were the first things boomers did when they took over the White House? Answer: (1) 'gays in the military'; (2) 'medical marijuana'. The rest is history.

'Gays in the military' incrementally became today's transgender movement; 'medical marijuana' incrementally became full scale drug 'decriminalization' and legalization. (A little leaven leaventh the whole lump.)

Moral of the story: Don't be peeing your pants because of the age difference and a bunch of old fuddy duddies clinging to power. Understand how we got to where gay marriage is now a constitutional, God-given right that even an elected president cannot take away. And why the United States blackmails foreign countries with sanctions as "human rights abusers" if they do not decriminalize homosexuality or allow gay marriage. Your blind support for Ukrainian fascism tells me you don't understand anything about presidential politics, or the American political process. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:18, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

NATO/Ukraine

Ukrainian Catholic Priest explains the situation on the ground

This is from some time ago, but illuminating as to what's going on:

"I do not deny that globalists try to influence Ukrainian politics in various ways. But Russia is doing the same. Russian expansion politics are not better then American globalism for us. Russian media spread disinformation about life in Ukraine, in their country, and all around the world.

This war really started in 2014 and it was started by Russia, which occupied Crimea, then provoked separatist actions in Donetsk and Luhansk regions and supported them by the Russian army. There is not any justification of Russian military intervention in our country. If they wanted to prevent any danger from U.S. or NATO, why did they attack Ukraine instead of Alaska, for example?

The Russian-Ukrainian confrontation did not start in 2014. We have a very long history of conflicts for centuries. Let us remember for example the act of genocide of our people in 1932-1933, when millions of Ukrainians died in the artificial famine.

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church also underwent several stages of liquidation and bloody persecution by the Russian Empire and the communist regime. The last of them lasted in western Ukraine from 1946 to 1989, when our Church existed in deep underground conditions.

There are many more such manifestations of Russian chauvinism. Russia brutally declares that it has a historical right to Ukrainian lands; its propaganda often sound theses that Ukrainians and Russians are one people, that the Ukrainian language is a dialect of Russian, etc.

Why does Archbishop Vigano not mention about Putin’s declaration in Munich 2008, that he considers the collapse of the Soviet Union the greatest world’s catastrophe of the 20th century? That declaration means he wants to restore the Soviet Union, to take Ukraine again under control of Russia.

I just want to show here the deep reason of Russian aggression towards Ukraine. Nobody may say that it is only confrontation between Russia and the globalist West, and Ukraine is just a battlefield.

The greatest insult to our people is the accusation of spreading Nazism. I will not refute here the Russian accusations repeated by Archbishop Viganо because it is not possible to do so within the framework of this interview. But the facts of this war show that it was Russian troops who acted like Nazis.

After the liberation from Russian occupancy of such cities as Bucha, Irpin, and Gostomel, hundreds of corpses of civilians were found there with traces of torture, the bodies of raped and killed women who they tried to burn.

On several occasions, the Russians did not allow humanitarian missions to enter Mariupol or other occupied cities to deliver food or evacuate civilians. This army, which came "to save the Russian-speaking population," almost wiped out Mariupol, a city of more than four hundred thousand people, mostly Russian-speaking.

Thanks again for your request.

Let God bless you!" https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/interview-priest-society-saint-josaphat-war-ukraine-73867 NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:53, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

This page is for MPR content, not specious claims in support of globalist propaganda. If you can't find the appropriate article page to post this kind of spam, try the Conservapedia:Community Portal. Thank you. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:03, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Reasonably and amicably debating over the subject matter(s) covered on MPR appears appropriate to me. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Monday, 13:59, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

We've knocked down every single item listed in this letter on this talk page several times already, like Putin "considers the collapse of the Soviet Union the greatest world’s catastrophe of the 20th century" which refers to the fact that ethnic Russians are denied citizenship and voting rights in the "democratic" Baltic States, or that Russians were denied pensions in Ukraine, etc. etc. This quote is like Trump saying "very fine people", repeatedly used out of context. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:20, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Alright then, I have no objections if you are inclined to place collapse templates on NishantXavier's quote spamming for the purpose of efficiently saving space here. —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Monday, 15:30, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

I don't want to censor or squash debate at all; these discussions belong on the appropriate page in its appropriate place. Like User: Cons, it just gets tiring debunking the same lies over and over again with people willingly brainwashed by MSM Nazi propaganda who refuse to listen or apply critical thinking skills. They just haven't figured out that repeating the same lie 100 times won't make it anymore true now or 100 years from now. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:35, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

It was posted to document certain facts like the destruction of Mariupol, a town of 400,000 people, predominantly Russian speaking, which refutes the Russian lie that they want to "save Russian speakers". It's also from an Eastern Catholic Ukrainian Priest on the ground, so no one can say it is western propaganda from people far away. But ok. I will post smaller excerpts going forward, containing directly the relevant points. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 03:49, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Well, it's all BS that has been picked apart many times, Mariupol is being rebuilt, the residents there are Russian, and they are grateful for Russian liberation after 8 years of Azov Nazi terrorism. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:19, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Residents of Mariupol tell their stories of Ukrainian war crimes and murder in the immediate aftermath of the battle. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:59, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Okay, this video by Dougan you linked is quite eye-opening; so the recipients testify that the Russian Army provides aid to the city's residents while Ukrainians not only refuse to help, but shoot at them. And even liberal NBC reported on this, so it seems. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Monday, 13:55, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

The video earned Dougan a place on the Nazi kill list, which is why other reporters don't report the same thing. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:12, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

I see... alright then, you're so far doing well in convincing me that the Ukronazi threat justifies Putinism. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Monday, 15:15, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Like my new sig? —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Monday, 15:28, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Yah, looks good. And let me thank you for having the courage to take a moral stand publicly. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:31, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

I intend to stand for what's morally right even when it's not popular. —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Monday, 15:35, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Nobody's asking you to be a "Putin shill" or "Pro-Putin"; just focus on the truth of the Maidan regime and the lies of NATO. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:41, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Fair enough; just so you know, I still disagree with your general assessment that all Putin criticism is "Nazi propaganda," though I concur on the need to expose the evils of globalist Ukronazism. Say, we should be the first to start an official "Smash Ukrofascism" campaign. After all, where's Antifa when you actually need them? —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Monday, 15:44, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Antifa's aligned with LGBT and the child mutilation movement, per latest reports. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:50, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Note: "Nazi propaganda" is used in the same context that "Putin propaganda" is used, fighting fire with fire.

To apply Nishant's own stated logic, anti-"Neo-Stalinists" therefore must be "Neo-Nazis". RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:04, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Antifa supports child mutilation? What a surprise; those fascist goons clearly have no end to their depravity. The militant wing of the Democratic Party never removed the hood and merely replaced it with a new one, still going about on its business assaulting civilians and inciting murder.

Okay, I see your point now about fighting fire with fire. —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Monday, 16:08, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Trump whistleblower is back

As I've said many times, Trump-Russia and the Ukraine war are inextricably linked. Eric Ciaramella, the whistleblower in Trump's first impeachment, is back. He's also the same guy who told Ukrainian officials in January 2016 to lay off investigating Hunter Biden and instructed them to open an investigation on Paul Manafort. Ukraine passed bogus allegations of "Russia collusion" to Ali Chalupa of the DNC, who passed it to Comey's FBI, and later Robert Mueller (the allegations were baseless, and Mueller actually nailed Manafort on tax charges from 2006).

The neo-fascist rag The Economist reports: [12]

Democrat operative Alexandra Chalupa (left) Deep State informant Eric Ciaramella (right).[1]

"Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a think-tank in Washington, argues that Western leaders should set out plans for Ukraine’s reconstruction and integration with the West, not least through security arrangements enshrined in law. Hitherto some Western leaders thought such matters would best be left until after a cessation of hostilities; but Mr Ciaramella argues they would help bring the fighting to an end by denying Mr Putin’s hope of winning a drawn-out conflict. The security “assurances” given to Ukraine by America, Britain and Russia itself in the 1994 Budapest memorandum, in return for its agreeing to the removal of Soviet-era nuclear weapons from its soil, proved hollow. Ukraine and eastern European friends argue that only membership of the nato alliance—with Article 5 enshrining the mutual-defence commitment that an attack on one is an attack on all—can protect Ukraine from further attack. For all the devastation he has visited on Ukraine, Mr Putin has been careful not to strike at nato countries.... Mr Ciaramella sets out a five-point proposal to give Ukraine “less than Article 5 but more than the Budapest Memorandum”. This includes legally codified commitments to help-Ukraine defend itself, inspired in part by those that America gives to Israel and Taiwan, to ensure they endure regardless of who is in power in America and Europe. He also advocates multi-year commitments to arm Ukraine; support to rebuild Ukraine’s arms industry; mechanisms for political consultation like nato’s Article 4; and a clear path to eu membership. All this would not be an alternative to nato membership, but a bridge towards it. The goal, much like those hoped-for territorial gains in Ukraine’s counter-offensive, would be to demonstrate to Russia that there is nothing to be gained by prolonging the war.

So after these war criminals got 350,000 Ukrainians killed for nothing, they're looking for a face-saving way to bail. The problem is, Russia won't agree to any of it, and the US-backed Kyiv regime won't survive.

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:17, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Note: "the 1994 Budapest memorandum, in return for its agreeing to the removal of Soviet-era nuclear weapons from its soil" is correct, verses the last propaganda BS Nishant posted, "Ukraine give up its nuclear arsenal". That's why "reading comprehension" is graded differently from simply having the ability to read. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:25, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

One further note: the Budapest memorandum "proved hollow" means the US violated the agreement by not holding up its end of the bargain. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 06:12, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Ukraine gains in its counter offensive

When celebrating a Prayer Breakfast around Feb 24, 2023, the 1 year Anniversary of the War, Prez. Zelensky said he hoped to celebrate one on Feb 24, 2024 again this time commemorating the Victory in the War. There is a significant possibility the War will end within a year.

See the Gains in the Counter-Offensive, 2 of which (Blahodatne and Neskuchne) are admitted by the Kremlin's supporters themselves:

"In the first reported gains of its much-anticipated counteroffensive, Kyiv says its forces have reclaimed territory from Russia.

Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar on Monday posted a message on Telegram saying that Ukraine's flag was again flying over the village of Storozheve.

Unverified videos showed troops hoisting the Ukrainian flag in the village of Blahodatne in the Donetsk region and their unit's flag in the adjacent village of Neskuchne.

Ukraine also said its troops had made advances in Makarivka, but some prominent Russian military bloggers suggested that while Ukrainian forces took Blahodatne and Neskuchne, the fight for Makarivka was going on." https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-updates-kyiv-claims-first-counteroffensive-gains/a-65886963 NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 22:21, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Update: Prior to the start of the Russian special military operation in Ukraine Novodonetskoe was populated by just 327 people, Makarovka by 258, Blagodatnoe by 1097, Storojevoe by 96, Neskuchnoe by 644, Lokbovoe by 99 and Novodarovka had no more than 51 people living in it. Kiev forces paid a heavy price to capture these small villages. According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, around 10,000 have been killed or wounded since the start of the counteroffensive. Many of the casualties were trained by NATO in bases outside Ukraine.

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 11:41, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

You're late. They've already been pushed back. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:41, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

$400 Russian drones taking out $5 million Bradley Fighting Vehicles. Like the idiots in the Pentagon didn't know this would or could happen years ago? or the idiots in Congress and the Biden regime didn't know this when they appropriatated $116 billion? It's scandalous (or at least it would be a scandal anywhere else in the world, including Russia. But not in the US). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:52, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

The above posting from Deutsche Welle is a case study in how Kyiv manipulates the time cycle in news reporting. 24-36 hours ago the Russians stepped back from forward positions in 3 villages with a population of about 175 people each. They still are about 30km north of the Surovikin Line, the first major defensive fortification (they basically are inviting NATO/Ukraine into the kill zone). The Ukies advanced. In that first 12 hour period, they took pictures of flag raising over these evacuated villages and released photos to international media like DW.

In the following 24 hours, fighting erupted in the kill zone where NATO/Ukraine was either annihilated, retreated, or taken prisoner. Meanwhile, Deutsche Welle goes to press declaring victory. The story is repeated worldwide by globalist media for the next 72 hours while the defeat is never reported. Wash. Rinse Repeat. Why I need to go into detail on this after the last 15 months is a mystery to me.

Now, Why does Ukraine need "published" victories? Cause at the upcoming July 11 NATO meeting, Zelensky and company have been strictly informed, they need captured territory for continued NATO aid. Additionally, the Russians aren't stupid - they read Western newspapers and media, as well. They understand the schedule and deadlines Zelensky faces if he wants to keep his job as NATO puppet dictator. So spare yourself the embarrassment before you get all excited about alleged Ukrainian victories. The fact the fake news media will report it as such come July 9, 10, 11, etc., is a foregone conclusion. But too many people now (including members of Congress and the press) see and understand the game being played. And come the first week of July, Russia will be ready to crush like a bug any effort to steal their headlines. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:31, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

Bottomline: Ukraine/Milley and the Pentagon have lost thousands of Ukrainian lives battling for five farmhouses in No Man's Land. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 11:47, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

New weapon introduced in Ukraine

Both sides have introduced, for the first time into combat, a new weapon. As of now it appears the Russian version is somewhat more advanced.

The new weapon is essentially a mine-laying rocket launcher that lays down mines behind an advancing force, so if or when they attempt to retreat, they enter a mine field that wasn't there when they advanced. In the Russian version, it's launched on a GRAD or Multiple Rocket Launching System (MLRS) with each rocket laying down 600 mines (the mines also have a self-destruct timer which then allows the defending force to advance later through the mine field.) As of this moment, the Russians being on the defensive, have the advantage in allowing the attacking force to enter into the kill zone, than locking them in so they can't retreat. NATO/Ukraine hasn't been able to get close enough to Russian lines to lay down their version, which wouldn't do much good anyway in a breakthrough cause they'd have to kill everyone, including reinforcements, at the breakthrough point rather than allow them to retreat. And then they'd have to wait (assuming NATO's version has a self-destruct timer) to advance. The Russian version also has an automated receptor that can be keyed to self destruct (in electronic warfare, you'd have to build a system that can hack into the radio frequency to get it to self-destruct so you can retreat; when that happens, all Russia needs to do is eliminate the radio receptor and go back soley to the timer). So the weapon really is more for a defensive posture than offensive. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:50, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

One more point: the purpose of probing attacks and an advance is to find a breakthrough point; when the breakthrough occurs on a line, the attacking force then funnels through hordes of reinforcements to reek havoc behind enemy lines. The new system lays down instantly a new minefield for reinforcements to traverse before reaching the breakthrough point, slowing the advance. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:11, June 12, 2023 (EDT)

Not going to debate with you on this subject any longer, as you don't have ears to hear. Will post facts and relevant stats and leave it at that. Let the reader judge. Time will tell which side was right. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 07:43, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

You got that one right. I don't have ears to hear propaganda. Well, yes I have ears to hear and recognized it, but not a brain to absorb it and make it part of my being. Many years ago I asked the Lord for the gift of discernment (per 1 Cor 12) and he was true to his word in granting the gift. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:04, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

The Politics of World War II in Contemporary Ukraine, IVAN KATCHANOVSKI, University of Ottawa

This study examines the role of political factors in attitudes toward World War II in contemporary Ukraine. The research question is which factors determine public views of the principal warring sides and their leaders in Ukraine. The analysis of the 2012 Kyiv International Institute of Sociology survey shows that regional values, political party preferences, ethnicity, language, and age have significant effects on views of the Red Army and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) during the war and attitudes toward the wartime activities of Joseph Stalin and Roman Shukhevych.

Do some background reading before you run off half-cocked with Nazi talking points again. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:49, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

5 minute video report on the Russian "Agriculture" MLRS mine laying system that defeated half the NATO force that took NATO a full year to train and assemble in less than 1 week (and NATO's lame efforts to catch up on Russian technology and strategic planning). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:00, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Now we understand more about US/NATO mine laying equipment - they use robots. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:53, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Astonishing Stats from the EU on Russia

[2]

"Q: Are the sanctions against Russia working?

A: Actually, the word "sanctions" does not exist in any European treaties. The phrase used is "restrictive measures". We restrict some actions, like buying Russian gas and selling Russia the electronics it needs to produce arms. That's the least we could have done. We say: "You are attacking Ukraine, so we don't want to buy your oil and gas because with that money you pay for the war. You are producing arms, so we won't sell you the electronics that you need to do that. I don't want to give you the spare parts you need for your civilian planes." Seventy-five per cent of Russia's civilian air fleet cannot fly because there are no spare parts. Ninety per cent of Russia's production of cars has stopped." NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 07:40, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

From: https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/straits-times-peace-not-no-war-and-derisking-has-risks-josep-borrell_en NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 07:41, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

Astonishing? Where are the astonishing facts? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:49, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

AMUSED RUSSIAN DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER SAYS IT'S NOT POSSIBLE FOR RUSSIA TO REUSE CHIPS FROM WASHERS. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:15, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

Two things should be understood about Russia:

The Russian military does not use:

(a) depleted uranium;

(b) cluster bombs.

If and when future arms control negotiations are ever agreed upon to take place, after the final partition of Ukraine and the disposition of NATO and European security arrangements are made, the Russians are in a fairly strong position to make their position known and clear what they think of the ethical considerations about war fighting in the Pentagon have been for the past 75 years. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:02, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

In the last two sentences: "Seventy-five per cent of Russia's civilian air fleet cannot fly because there are no spare parts. Ninety per cent of Russia's production of cars has stopped." Russia is destroying its own country/economy in order to wage this unjust War. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 22:54, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

Oh, I get it. This is the same source that said Russia had to cannibalize washing machines for their $400 drones that destroyed the $9 million German Leopard 2 tanks. Ok. Thanks for clarifying that. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:50, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

Updates

• Multiple Ukrainian Tank Columns ANNIHILATED
• NAZI'S VOW TO KILL EVERYONE. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:23, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

From a psyop perspective, it would have been easier to respect Russian armed forces from the beginning, rather than to force them to earn that respect again, and teach a lesson for the next 80 years.

From a political perspective, as you can read anywhere, NATO has clearly stated that their objective, whatever the outcome, is to have negotiations after the end of summer. But think again momentarily, what if Russia isn't in the mood to negotiate? Do you honestly believe NATO and the West can dictate where and when to have negotiations? That's simply more disrespect. Are Western populations ready to make the same kind of privations their grandparents and great-grandparents endured in WWII, or that the Russian population is enduring now and has endured since 2014?

At some point, surviving Western Nazis and globalists, and their subservient serf populations, will have to humbly face the victors. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:41, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

• The Nazis vow to kill everyone means they will follow NATO's main attacking forces in Zaporozhe and send in an Einsatzgruppen of Azov types behind them to murder anyone who voted in the referendum to join Russia. The Kyiv regime vowed as much a year ago. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:54, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

• WOMAN DESCRIBES SECRET CHAT WHERE AFU ORDERED TO KILL ALL RUSSIAN 'COLLABORATORS' IN NEW TOWNS. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:12, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

• Ukrainian sniper sentenced to 23 years for murdering civilian in Mariupol in March 2022. Operation Denazification is proceeding as planned. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:13, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

• LPR INVESTIGATORS ARE FINDING MANY GRAVES OF WESTERN MERCENARIES - ONE AMERICAN FROM SAN FRANCISCO. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:21, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

• Ukrainian Nazis doused well known Ukrainian politician Taras Chornovol with urine and paint then dumped into dumpster. [13] These are just the low-level Nazi street thugs still undergoing brainwashing. They haven't graduated to full time employment in an official government unit of paid Nazi killers. They probably got his home address off the Myrotvorets kill list. Welcome to Zelensky's Ukraine, this outpost of European values and American democracy. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:37, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

• TEEN IS KNOCKED OUT AND KIDNAPPED FOR CANNONFODDER BY RUTHLESS UKRAINIAN COMMISSARS. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:16, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

• MEMORIAL TO SOLDIERS WHO DEFEATED HITLER AND NAZISM DEMOLISHED IN LVOV. (Basically, this could not be done without financial aid from you and US taxpayers, as the Kyiv regime is broke. It is you the US taxpayer baring 100% of the cost to employ Ukrainian government workers). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:18, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

• Axmat arrives in Belgorod to hunt NATO/LGBT forces. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:21, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

• Love the soundtrack from that video, it uses the same ostinato as the Star Wars music, borrowed from Gustav Holst's 'Mars, the god of war'. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:26, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

• RUSSIAN DEEPFAKE TROLLS WORLD LEADERS. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:29, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

• Update: Ukrainian Nazi General Budanov contacted via Ouija board from Bandera headquarters in hell. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:49, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

• Double-Headed Russian Eagle Coin From 1739 Is Found At Bottom of Kakhovka Reservoir. Ukrainians on social media are outraged and can't figure out why the coin from 1739 doesn't have the Ukrainian Trident symbol on it. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:00, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

• UKRAINIAN CONGA LINE OF DESTROYED ARMOR IS PULLED BACK TO THE CHOP SHOP. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:47, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

• Ukrainian Civilians Continue Rebelling Against Commissars Kidnapping Men From The Street. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:51, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

• MORE CANNONFODDER KIDNAPPED ON THE STREETS OF UKRAINE INTO NONDESCRIPT VAN. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:17, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

• Russia knows how to harness its Muslims. They don't pay ISIS proxies under the table like the US does. Do you think Milley and the idiots will take the bait and do an artillery strike on their headquarters from Ukraine? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:58, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

• HERE'S THE NEXT GENERATION OF U.S. MILITARY RECRUITS - SCARY STUFF. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:35, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

• 70 videos of the Ukraine turkey shoot of NATO equipment in the past 4 days; also Russians With Attitude run a pretty good 30 minute video expose in the background to accompany their voice over. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:05, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

• Only 3 of 120 Ukrainian attackers in an assault unit on Russian defenses survived. Why do Zelensky, Biden, and other nazi supporters continue to send soldiers into such meaningless slaughter? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:08, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

• Commissar hit in the face with a rock. How long does a rational person believe this society can endure the fascist Zelensky regime? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:48, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

• Antique T-72 knocks out a mighty Leopard with a barrel shot. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:57, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

• AMERICAN "MERCENARIES" (SPECIAL FORCES) OPERATING IN UKRAINE. Reminder: They are not protected by the Geneva Convention or any international rules of war. They are paid killers awaiting the fate of all paid killers. In Donbas in particular, the term "mercenary" probably has a ring to it below that of "pedophile." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:02, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

• THIS NEW ZELENSKY SONG IS TOPPING THE CHARTS. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:55, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

• BEWARE: PSYCHO-FUHRER IS GOING ALL IN ON IMMINENT ZNPP TERROR ATTACK. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:58, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

• Rostov residence clap and cheer and chant "Wagner! Wanger"" as Prigozhin departs. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:48, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Russia has lost 215,000 Soldiers. The effects of this will soon be evident on the battlefield

Biden shaking hands with Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Oleh Tyanhbok.

"He only earns his freedom and his life who takes them every day by storm." Goethe

Total combat losses of the enemy from February 24, 2022 to June 13, 2023: https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1668573934676058112 [Details in link] Russia cannot win this War. The Ukrainian people need their land so they will not stop fighting for it. Sweden will become a NATO member by Vilnius in July, and NATO nations have pledged to support Ukraine for as long as it takes. Russia will retreat sooner or later. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 23:44, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

From an anti-Russian site that works with the BBC. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:55, June 13, 2023 (EDT)

Basically, if the history of the past 15 months is any guide, what the Ukrainian MOD says about Russia generally are the facts about Ukraine. 200k+ dead Ukrainians now could be called a consensus figure (some still hold it as low as 135k-150k, Bobby Kennedy recently put it at 350k). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:00, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

And this part, "The Ukrainian people need their land", what a joke. Their land won't do them any good once US deployed depleted uranium shells contaminate it for the next 240,000 years. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:07, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Watch this 2 minute video. You should seriously get off this Biden/Neo-Nazi hobby horse you've been riding. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:01, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

"Biden/Neo-Nazi" Just use the term Bidenazi! —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Wednesday, 12:03, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Hey, watch Tucker Calrson do a perfect pantomime of what you sound like. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:57, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

"Biden shaking hands with Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Oleh Tyanhbok. I'm not sure how the surname is supposed to to be pronounced, so I'll just go with "Trannybok." The Ukronazis are promoting homosexualism, after all. —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Wednesday, 15:35, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

hint: there is no letter "H" in the Russian alphabet (the letter "H" is referred to as an "aspiration" by linguists, of which there are no other "aspirations" in the English alphabet. Some even call it a vowel). The Ukrainian language changed the Cyrilic or Greek "gamma" or "G" in "Oleg" to an "H" just to be different, cause "G" is often used by Russian translators instead of "H". Hence you have the transliterations "Lugansk" and "Luhansk", the first being the Ukrainian pronunciation and the second the Russian). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:59, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Corrrection: there is a letter "H" in Russian; it is however the Greek "Nu" or English "N" sound. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:02, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

IOWs, if you change "Oleh" to "Oleg", it proves you are Putin stooge to Ukrainian Nazis. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:11, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Another example: if you pronounce "Vladimir" as "Vladimir" correctly, you are Putin stooge; however if you use the somewhat retarded pronunciation and spelling of "Volodymyr" (where your mouth and lips form up like you're going to puke), then you are a Nazi kinsman. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:51, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

NATO Chief offers Vilnius Summit Preview at the White House: NATO is stronger and more focused and united than ever before

NATO chief warlord and LGBT activist Jens Stoltenberg (center).

With the Accession of Finland and Sweden into the Alliance - an Alliance of almost all Christian and Christian-majority countries, btw, with minority outliers like Turkey etc - NATO undoubtedly becomes the single most Powerful Alliance that has ever existed on Earth.

Vilnius, Lithuania in July looks set to be the place where Sweden will become NATO member 32. Below, Stoltenberg outlines reasons how appeasing Russia would embolden China: "NATO chief offers Vilnius summit preview at White House Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg vowed to ‘sustain and step up’ support for Ukraine as it faces Russian invasion. 13 Jun 2023 Outgoing NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg has met with top United States officials at the White House, offering a preview of topics for an upcoming alliance summit in Vilnius, Lithuania.

Stoltenberg, who is set to step down as secretary-general in September, said the NATO alliance would work “to sustain and step up support for Ukraine” and “further strengthen our deterrence on defence” at the Vilnius meeting.

He also underscored the need to send a strong message to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has championed his country’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine since its launch in February 2022.

“It was not only an attack on Ukraine but also on our core values and on free people everywhere,” Stoltenberg said on Tuesday as he sat across from US President Joe Biden.

“And therefore President Putin must not win this war because that will not only be a tragedy for Ukrainians but also make the world more dangerous. It will send a message to authoritarian leaders all over the world, also in China, that when they use military force, they get what they want.”

Other priorities for the Vilnius summit, set for July 11 and 12, include a stronger partnership with countries in the Indo-Pacific region. In his comments on Tuesday, Stoltenberg also said he would push NATO allies to fulfil a 2006 pledge to commit two percent of their gross domestic products (GDPs) to defence spending — a pledge that many of the 31 member nations have fallen short of in the years since."

From: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/13/nato-chief-offers-vilnius-summit-preview-at-white-house NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 04:24, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

"Yet even if we all agree that NATO is not a humanitarian relief agency: if we can help, as in the case of the earthquake in Pakistan, should we say “no”? And if the African Union asks us for help – not for boots on the ground, to be sure, but for logistical support – can we tell them that we are too busy elsewhere? In my view, this would have been the wrong answer. Our security policy is based on interests and on values. And this means that we need to help when we can, where we can. Helping the people of Afghanistan to shed the Taliban’s yoke, or helping the African Union to be more effective in looking after its own continent – both are investments in a more stable and just global order. And that means they both are investments in our own long-term security.

Allow me, at this point, to say a few more words about the interrelationship between values and interests. The transatlantic community is a community based on the Judaeo-Christian Humanist tradition. And I am certainly not the first to observe that much of what NATO is doing these days is to engage in regions of predominantly Muslim belief. In Bosnia, and later in Kosovo, NATO used force to protect innocent civilians most of whom were Muslims. And NATO’s largest military operation today takes place in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Not surprisingly, perhaps, some observers, Christians and Muslims alike, have questioned NATO’s motivation. Is NATO’s agenda an attempt to impose distinct Western values on non-Western societies? Are we trying to re-shape the world in our image?

Ladies and gentlemen, nothing could be further from the truth. Yes, NATO is an association of Western countries. Yes, with the exception of secular Muslim Turkey, NATO is predominantly an Alliance of Christian countries. Each December, the NATO compound here in Brussels is illuminated by a huge Christmas tree. But the values that NATO stands for are not uniquely Christian. The values that we promote and defend through our engagement are universal values. The right of women to go to school is a universal right. The right to choose your own religion, and not having to fear the death penalty for doing so, is a universal right. The right to elect your democratic government in a free and fair election is a universal right.

These are the values we are defending, from the Balkans to Afghanistan. They are non-negotiable. But they are neither uniquely Western, nor are they uniquely Christian. Indeed, I believe that countries from all parts of the globe, and from all major religions, should be able to agree on them. For they are the true foundation for mankind’s survival in the 21st century." https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2007/s070301a-e.html NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 04:28, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Gay marriage is not a God-given right, contrary to the gospel according to NATO.

A world without Russia is not worth living in. Think about that before you continue with your nuclear war mongering. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:31, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

"NATO is stronger and more focused and united than ever before". HA! France wants to join BRICS. They'll never do it as long as they are members of NATO and have Russia sanctions. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:35, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

NATO member Germany: "God is queer". RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:46, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

NATO, while not perfect, is based on the Judeo-Christian Tradition of Democracy, Freedom and Human Rights. I'll take my chances with that rather than with Commie countries like China and North Korea (now supporting Russia), Islamist countries like Iran, and neo-Stalinist leaders like Thug Putin. NATO should welcome Asian countries like Japan, South Korea, India, and Indo-Pacific countries like Australia and New Zealand immediately. That would send a strong message to the Global South that all nations everywhere are welcome in this Free Alliance. That's what is going to happen eventually https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/06/06/us-india-inclusion-nato/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 05:15, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

And the LGBT thing is why I support De Santis. With Biden, or even Trump, you'll have LGBT. With DE Santis, you won't. NATO always follows America's lead. That's why De Santis 2024 is so important. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 05:17, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

NATO is run by, and for the benefit of, corrupt pedophile oligarchs. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:45, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Watch this video. You'll see the spirit of Christian Russia that defeated Soviet Communism from within despite persecution and trials. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:49, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Yah looks like more Putin propaganda - preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ in ancient song. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 11:06, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Sooner of later you will realize the War in Ukraine is a Civil War between Eastern and the hollowed shell of Western Christianity, instigated by global atheists to destroy both once and for all. Even the God-fearing, non-terrorist Muslims side with the Christians. Here in North America and Canada, it is the Muslims who are the parental activists with the cahoonies to stand up to the transgender and LGBT movement. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 11:17, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Hopefully those Muslims will ultimately see the real truth and light, coming to a state of repentance and conversion before it's too late. Countless masses these days incline in their hearts towards righteousness but have been misguided their whole lives. —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Wednesday, 12:03, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

"NATO, while not perfect, is based on the Judeo-Christian Tradition-" No. The Jewish values of the Bible are incompatible with globalism, period. God never sanctified a United Nations between Israel and abominable heathen tribes. While the geopolitical outlook today is vastly different from Old Testament times, as no literal country today are God's chosen people (sorry Christian Zionists, but literal Israel isn't very relevant in biblical eschatology), the concept of uniting varying nations under an ecumenical, syncretized world order is the agenda of Satan, not of God. —LT ^{Smash Ukrofascism!} Wednesday, 12:07, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Stoltenberg said it himself, the "Judaeo-Christian Humanist tradition," "God is queer." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 12:59, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Ambitious Agenda for NATO's Vilnius Summit

I predict Sweden will become NATO member #32 within the year, and probably at the Vilnius Summit in July. The Path is then open for Ukraine to become NATO member #33. When? I don't know. It will be after the War ends. It could be late next year, or maybe in 2025.

"At this moment, while Ukraine is still in a full-fledged war, the Alliance will be reluctant to open any negotiation process in order to avoid being directly dragged into a military conflict with Russia. At the same time, Kyiv and its partners among NATO allies continue communicating on the formula for a clear path to “bring Ukraine’s accession to the Alliance closer“.

In Kyiv, there is no illusion that Ukraine would obtain membership before the Russian-Ukraininan war is over, yet the Vilnius declaration should explicitly pave the way for potential membership. If NATO members fall short of delivering a clear signal in this regard, top-level Ukrainian officials may refrain from participation in the summit.

Allies still have no agreed approach to what this formula might entail. For example, a statement from 19 parliamentary foreign affairs committee chairs of NATO members called for “a clear path for Ukrainian accession to NATO and clear and strong security guarantees for Ukraine.” From: https://visegradinsight.eu/vilnius-nato-summit-is-an-ambitious-agenda-for-ukraine-possible/ While there's still work to be done, NATO will get there in the end, as it did with Finland, and it's doing with Sweden. Turkey will probably allow Sweden in in exchange for US F-16s. The Turks know when to bargain, as they did on Finland and are doing now, but they also know when, for the Common Good of the Alliance, to come to consensus, as they did on Finland. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 08:00, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

How it will play out after the Vilnius summit

As of now it appears the NATO representatives in Vilnius on July 11 will have to admit to themselves that Ukraine lost. To keep Kyiv from being overrun by Russia and installation of a Russia puppet regime, they will form a NATO "coalition of the willing" led by Poland and the Baltic States to send troops into Ukraine (basically, the Kyiv and Lviv regions}. It is almost a virtual certainty that they will be attacked by Russia once they cross into Ukraine territory, and Russia will not allow these NATO forces to establish air superiority over any portion of Ukraine from NATO airbases in Poland.

In any case however, this involves more direct active belligerents in the conflict, with risk of the battlefields spreading outside Ukraine, to Belarus, Poland, Transnistria (Moldova) or Serbia/Kosovo and beyond. 20:18, June 14, 2023 (EDT)RobS^{Give Peace a chance}

Update on Vilnius summit: Biden squashed Stoltenberg's proposal to expedite Ukraine into NATO. Biden and Blinken want to freeze the Ukraine conflict and focus on war with China, now that they depleted US and NATO weapons stockpiles. However, European NATO allies aren't on board with war with China, or the US effort to drag them into that conflict with new Japan NATO office (the US can't go it alone against Russian and China). The NATO alliance may not survive the US disastrous leadership of it, ever since Victoria Nuland said "F the EU" when Ambassador Geoffrey Pyke asked Nuland shouldn't the NATO allies be consulted before the Obama regime unilaterally overthrew the Ukrainian democratically-elected government in 2014. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:21, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

NATO Office likely in Japan by 2024

"Earlier this year, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg announced that the organization was considering the opening of a liaison office in Japan by 2024. Amid the growing tensions between the United States and China, the latest move from the transatlantic alliance is perceived as a way to shore up Western security partnerships in the Indo-Pacific. In that perspective, a NATO office in Tokyo would build on the momentum brought about by other multilateral initiatives such as the Quad (Australia, India, Japan, and the U.S.) and AUKUS (Australia, the U.K., and the U.S.)." https://thediplomat.com/2023/06/a-nato-office-in-japan-much-ado-about-not-much/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 14:30, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Oh yah. I'm sure China, Russia, and the civilian populations of Japan and NATO countries in Europe are thrilled about it. Of course, in the "democratic" Western countries, nobody ever asked the people what they thought about this - you know, the people ultimately saddled with the cost. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:33, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Oh, and Dictator Thug Putin asked the people of Ukraine what they thought about his invasion before invading, did he? No, the Thug denied he was ever going to invade, until the last moment, when he did, and since greater than 90% oppose his invasion, if he had any respect for Ukraine's Democracy and right to self-determination, which he doesn't, he'd leave. He doesn't even respect Russia's Democracy, and throws Opposition Leaders in jail, or has them killed, quite blatantly, with poisonous substances everyone knows comes from the KGB and Kremlin. HE doesn't even try to hide it sometimes; he's a cold, methodological killer, and he's got you hoodwinked into believing he's a decent person. You know, that meme, of "how countries join Russia (with whole cities destroyed/leveled)" and "how countries join NATO" (with a pic of people smiling and shaking hands) sums it up perfectly. The latter is Democracy in Action. The former is not, and is Anti-Democracy to the core. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 00:39, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Let me know when NATO holds its next referendum. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:53, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Prospects of nuclear war

Don't worry about Putin the mad man using nukes, worry about Lukashenko. Go ahead, let Biden, Poland, and Zelensky come up with another hare-brained scheme to send terrorist Nazis into Belarus as the "Belarussian Liberation Army" or whatever. Lukashenko's already promised to nuke their butts (and not likely to strike on Belarussian territory). And he doesn't even need to consult with or ask permission from Putin first. It's pretty easy for Belarus to feel threatened, they only got about a 70,000 man army. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:12, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

War in Ukraine: A forever war or a war that the GOP will end?

"A FOREVER WAR BEGINS

These largely immutable factors could well produce a drawn-out hot war between Russia and Ukraine. Indeed, history suggests that is the most likely outcome. A study from the Center for Strategic and International Studies, using data from 1946 to 2021 compiled by Uppsala University, found that 26 percent of interstate wars end in less than a month and another 25 percent within a year. But the study also found that “when interstate wars last longer than a year, they extend to over a decade on average.” Even those that last fewer than ten years can be exceptionally destructive. The Iran-Iraq war, for example, lasted for nearly eight years, from 1980 to 1988, and resulted in almost half a million combat fatalities and roughly as many wounded. After all its sacrifices, Ukraine deserves to avoid such a fate.

A long war between Russia and Ukraine will also be highly problematic for the United States and its allies, as a recent RAND study I co-authored with the political scientist Miranda Priebe shows. A protracted conflict would keep the risk of possible escalation—either to Russian nuclear use or to a Russian-NATO war—at its current elevated level. Ukraine would be on near-total economic and military life support from the West, which will eventually cause budgetary challenges for Western countries and readiness problems for their militaries. The global economic fallout of the war, including the volatility in grain and energy prices, would persist. The United States would be unable to focus its resources on other priorities, and Russian dependence on China would deepen. Although a long war would also further weaken Russia, that benefit does not outweigh these costs."[14]

On the other hand, Rift Growing Among Republicans Grows Over US Support for Ukraine and Congressional Support for Aiding Ukraine Frays Amid Spending Battle.

If the economy worsens, maybe a Republican will win the USA presidency in 2024 and decide to pull the plug on funding Ukraine and try to get an armistice. Right now, the prediction markets give the Democrats a 4% greater possibility chance of winning the presidency in 2024.

Professor John Joseph Mearsheimer, who predicted the war in Ukraine, expects the war in Ukraine to drag on and on for a long while. Conservative (talk) 20:37, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

The Biden junta is trying to convert their failure into a frozen conflict (like Korea) later this year; not likely the Russians will go for it. So the US would have to keep pumping money in to support the defeated regime and/or NATO's "coalition of the willing" to keep the conflict going. By then, the American public and some European allies likely will bail. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:01, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Alternatively, the US can accept defeat and cut n run like Vietnam and Afghanistan. Only this time, it would be a defeat for the whole NATO alliance, with members starting to bail (Germany is ready to toss the NATO warmongers out of office after the NATO attack on the Nordstream pipeline, and France is asking to join BRICS, that no way would accept France as long as it has Russia sanctions, send weapons to Ukraine, and is a member of NATO.) RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:08, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

"The Keys to the White House is a prediction system for determining the outcome of presidential elections in the United States. It was developed by American historian Allan Lichtman and Russian geophysicist Vladimir Keilis-Borok in 1981, adapting prediction methods that Keilis-Borok designed for earthquake prediction. The system is a thirteen-point checklist that assesses the situation of the country and political system ahead of a presidential election. When five or fewer items on the checklist are false, the incumbent party candidate is predicted to win the election. Some of the items on this checklist involve qualitative judgment, and therefore the reliability of this system relies heavily on the knowledge and analytical skill of whoever attempts to apply it. Using his own system, Lichtman has correctly predicted the outcomes of all presidential elections from 1984 to 2020, with the exception of the 2000 election."[15]

Key #10 is: "No foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs."[16]

The Biden administration already had the poorly executed pullout from Afghanistan so they will try to avoid a defeat in Ukraine as long as possible to avoid losing face and incurring more electability damage on the foreign/military affairs front. Conservative (talk) 21:30, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Many of the issues will change or be settled long before November 2024, out of pure military and economic necessity. The GOP and presidential politics hardly factor in. You're peeing in the wind. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:45, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

First, I wrote: "The Biden administration already had the poorly executed pullout from Afghanistan so they will try to avoid a defeat in Ukraine as long as possible". When I wrote "as long as possible" that does include the two possibilities that things will change or be settled long before November 2024.

Also, it is noteworthy that Professor John Joseph Mearsheimer, who predicted the war in Ukraine, expects the war in Ukraine to drag on and on for a long while. Mearsheimer is a realistic person who is not prone to intellectual arrogance. Conservative (talk) 23:08, June 14, 2023 (EDT)

Biden, Sullivan and those idiots want a frozen conflict with no winner, Russia wants the United States and NATO out. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:06, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

IOWs, when Congress pulls the plug and all the NATO people leave, the Zelensky regime folds up shop, too. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:14, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

If BlackRock wants to reclaim some of its collateral, they'll have to talk to the Russians about that. But it may be difficult, they may be on Russia's sanctions list. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:18, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

The IMF, the Bank for International Settlements, and various international courts will be arguing for years on property claims. They probably need some good Russian lawyers for actions in Russian courts. Russia just gonna say, send the bill the United States. The US bought and paid for the war. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:23, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Although pro-natalism policies are expensive and no panacea for subreplacement levels of fertility, both France and Hungary have used them (See: Pro-Natal Policies Work, But They Come With a Hefty Price Tag) with some degree of success. Given Russia's fertility rate and its grave effects on the future of Russia, Putin would be smart to try to end this conflict ASAP and spend the war economy money on a pro-natalism program instead. France now has about a fertility rate 1.83 births per woman (2020), which although not a replacement level of births (Which is 2.1 births per woman), is still higher than it would be without expensive pronatalism policies.

Countries that have a guns and butter economy really do a number on themselves so Russia should not do that. Russia needs more butter in its economy and less of a guns-oriented economy (Namely, a war economy).

Russia has the highest abortion rate in the world (It is higher than the abortion rate of the USA). Conservative (talk) 17:26, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Russia's fertility rate is virtually identical to America's. You are basically making an appeal for open borders to boost America's fertility rate. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:54, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Three things: 1) More people are leaving Russia since Putin than are going into Russia. People want to come to the USA so the USA can do legal immigration using a point system that rewards skills/wealth in immigration candidates that causes a higher quality of immigration which can boost the economy and create job-producing businesses. Trump advocated such immigration. 2) The USA can increase religiosity which is tied to higher birth rates via school choice and tackling indoctrination in public schools. DeSantis has had the guts to tackle leftism/wokism in public education and has greatly increased school choice. 3) The USA can stop engaging in foolish forever wars and use some of that wealth to be able to give generous tax credits for couples that have children. Conservative (talk) 00:24, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Nobody's listening cause everybody can see you don't know what you are talking about. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:15, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

There are no solutions, only trade offs. And your whole argument is a justification for open borders and illegal immigration to criticize Vladimir Putin and Russia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:41, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Legal immigration is not open borders - no matter how much you pretend it is. Right now, the world is moving into a high-tech era and there is a shortage of people with skills in the USA. Lots of jobs requiring various skills can't be filled. The USA should upgrade its educational system (allow more school choice) and upgrade its immigration system so it is skilled/money based. It's no longer the 1800s where America needs a lot of ditch diggers. I wish the USA could better fill those jobs, but unfortunately a lot of blue states/cities have laws/systems that are anti-natalism, not very family friendly (High regulations as far as building homes which drive home cost up, etc.) plus they often have poor educational systems. And the sad truth is that many Americans have a poor work ethic which is another reason why many jobs are not being filled. America has a lot of old people and it needs workers to be better able to support them. In 2019, it was reported that South Dakota is one of just two states where there are enough babies being born to keep the population steady.[17] I wish the rest of the USA had a lot of the family/cultural values of South Dakota, but the reality is that they don't. But I am not going to spend a lot of my trying vainly attempting to change people's views on immigration because it is hard to change people's political views - especially when it comes to immigration. In addition, politics is downwind from culture, so the best way to change culture is through Christian evangelism.

Also, you are obsessed with globalism. The UN, the World Economic Forum, the Atlantic Council and other globalist organizations could be dissolved tomorrow and the people who want a one-size-fits-all secular, liberal universalism wouldn't disappear. That is because it is people within the USA and Western countries that want to radically change American/Western/world culture (I recommend watching this video: In Defense of Particularistic Nationalism because he makes this point). And the Western "elites" (I don't think they are very elite due to their errant ideas) are not the only ones to want to spread their influence as China is trying to do the same (It also wants people to be more open to its values.), but it is often failing as anti-China sentiment is growing in various parts of the world.

Also, globalism is losing influence and nationalism and people's wishes to retain their culture is growing. That is partly due to desecularization as religion influences culture to a high degree. And supply chains are moving closer to home. China is rapidly greying so its mercantilism and influence is going to be short-lived due to a lack of workers (See: Skepticism about China remaining a global power). And Russian influence will wane in the world (See: Essay: Why I am not bullish on Russia's future). But right now, it still has a fair amount of influence due to its oil/gas/agricultural products.

Although I can use my various skills and upgrade my various skills in order better be able to change other people's views, the truth is that if I want to change my life and others' lives for the better, my time is often better spent trying to change myself. That is because most people's worst enemies are themselves when it comes to being at a higher spiritual, mental, moral, and physical fitness and financial level. In addition, you can lead a horse to water, but ultimately you can't make him drink. On the other hand, it is my Christian duty to spread the gospel and people becoming Christians is a good thing for them, those around them and for the world at large (See: Christianity and social stability). And the stronger Christian and overall person I am, the better able I am better able to help others (Donations, prayers, using skills to help others, volunteer time, etc.). Conservative (talk) 08:32, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

The USA could slow down the pace of legal immigration and allow for more assimilation and there are advantages to that. But the baby boomers would have to agree to come out of retirement and work. Pity the politician who tries to sell that idea to boomers! Personally, I think the retirement age should be raised and it might be. But that idea is very unpopular in the West and Emmanual Macron in France is getting a lot of pushback. I suspect Western politicians are going to do a lot of money printing instead and force the seniors to go back to work due to inflation driving up food and other costs. Printing money is a lot easier to do than raising people's taxes. Conservative (talk) 09:18, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

The USA could also slow legal immigration by cutting down its military budget which could make it easier to finance expenditures on its aging population. But I don't see that happening. Both the GOP/Democrats are in the pocket of the military/industrial/financial complex. Plus, I think many Americans like being the big man on the military campus compared to many other nations. Conservative (talk) 09:35, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Even with legal immigration, the United States fertility rate is 1.64 (five decades after the 1965 Immigration Reform Act; IOWs. those immigrant groups who came to the US also suffered a decline in birth rates) versus the Russian Federation's 1.58. Technically, the United States is in a worse situation than Russia.

The more you talk, the more you prove how ignorant you are on certain subjects outside you specialties. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 11:58, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

As to the whole premise to this thread, "War in Ukraine: A forever war or a war that the GOP will end?", you just had your answer. 20 Republicans of the GOP's 5 seat majority just voted in support of Nazisymp, warmonger, and Russia hoaxer Adam Schiff. "We fight Russia there so we don't have to fight Russia here." Stop embarrassing yourself. Stick to things you know and understand. Thanks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:00, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

RobS, you wrote: "Even with legal immigration, the United States fertility rate is 1.64 (five decades after the 1965 Immigration Reform Act; IOWs. those immigrant groups who came to the US also suffered a decline in birth rates) versus the Russian Federation's 1.58. Technically, the United States is in a worse situation than Russia."

Russia has lost population since Putin came into power while the USA has gained population. Foreigners are not flocking to Russia, but they want to come to the USA. No amount of mental gymnastics on your part is going to alter this fact.

As far as the GOP potentially ending this war, I did not give a very short time frame in the future. That is merely the strawman that you set up in order to knock it down. Conservative (talk) 13:13, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

I also said, "Technically, the United States is in a worse situation than Russia." Even with legal immigration to the United States since Putin took power 20 years ago in Russia, immigration has only boosted the US fertility rate to 1.64 versus Russia's "worse" 1.58. Again, the US in a worse position than Russia.

C'mon now, the logic here is not rocket science. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:47, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

So I will restate my premise once again: Your attacks on Putin and Russia are justification and advocacy for open borders and illegal immigration. And if you don't get you talking points directly from globalists, your thought patterns, analytical abilities, and way of looking at the world have been trained and brainwashed within the globalist system. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:53, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

You often cite Mearsheimer, yet in talking to you it obvious you either don't listen to him, or don't understand what he says or has said. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:55, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Mearsheimer has repeatedly refuted the false aand vicious personal attacks on Putin that you and other globalists engage in. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:59, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

RobS wrote: "Your attacks on Putin and Russia are justification and advocacy for open borders and illegal immigration."

You are engaging in non sequitur argumentation. It's obvious that you can't defend your Putin/Russia cheerleading. The Russians by far know more about Putin/Russia more than you do. Russia has lost population since Putin came into power. People vote with their feet and Putin/Russia lost the election. Conservative (talk) 14:07, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

I don't defend my Putin/Russia cheerleading anymore than Prof. John J. Mearsheimer does. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:13, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

As far as Russia:

"Deaths have outpaced births almost every year since the end of communism. Russia’s population peaked in 1993 at 148.6 million. At the start of 2022, it was estimated at 145.6 million. That’s a decline of only two per cent but, by way of comparison, the U.S. population grew 33 per cent from 1990 to 2020. The World Bank calculates that Russian life expectancy is only 71 years compared with 77 in the United States...

Russia stands out for its extraordinarily high death rate, particularly among men, from cardiovascular diseases (heart attacks, strokes, etc.) and injuries (homicides, suicides, accidents). This can be explained by Russia’s terrible health-care system, its environmental pollution, and its high levels of binge drinking and drug addiction — which, in turn, are a sign of despair."[18] Conservative (talk) 14:22, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

It means nothing without comparisons from Western Europe and America, and the impacts of transgenderism and LGBT on fertility, or the impact of US government sanctioned import of fentanyl. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:28, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Perhaps you believe the import of fentanyl is a free people making a free choice in a capitalist economy. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:30, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

There is evidence that very recently there is a growing backlash against LGBTQ+ ideology in the USA: Woke Teachers FREAK OUT as Students Chant ‘My Pronouns Are USA!’. And this occurred in the blue state of Massachusetts!

USA! USA! USA! The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future. Conservative (talk) 15:39, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

See below about predictions. If we followed the bible, you'd have been executed by stoning for false prophecies sometime ago. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:58, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Undefensible arguments

One clue about false arguments (in any context) is, when faced with a bad group of condemning facts, advocates retreat to "coulda woulda shoulda" arguments about the past (for example "Ukrainian Russians should have moved to Russia") or predictions about the future ("By Christmas bla bla bla" or "The GOP will win the next election and there will be peace and happiness for ever"). It's a form of denial. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:17, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Putin should have never attacked Ukraine in February of 2022. It made Russia's demographic situation worse. Due to Putin's decision to attack Ukraine in February of 2022 many Russian-speaking Ukrainians have fled to Eastern/central Ukraine and had their former homes destroyed.

What matters in public policy is the results and not any good intentions that they express. Good leaders consider various scenarios and any possible unintended consequences.

Due to Europe's aging population which is projected to shrink and its various current and projected problems, Professor John Joseph Mearsheimer stated: “Europe doesn't matter anymore. You know, Europe is basically a giant museum.”[19] See: Decline of Europe

The idea that the much smaller country of Ukraine and a declining Europe posed a significant future threat to Russia is laughable. Putin should have focused on fixing Russia's myriad of problems rather than attacking Ukraine which made Russia's future prospects even worse. Conservative (talk) 16:15, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

(a) coulda woulda shoulda; (b) if Europe doesn't matter anymore, why does NATO exist?; (c) oh, so Ukraine has not been attacking Moscow with NATO provided missiles and drones. Thanks for clarifying that. RobS^{Give Peace a chance}

Do you think Russia is going to lose the war in Ukraine? No, you don't. I stand by what I wrote above. Conservative (talk) 16:36, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Do you think the NATO/Ukraine fascists will defeat Russia? According to Mearsheimer, you will get nuked first before that ever happens (oh, I forget, you not only reverted the clip of Mearsheimer saying that on your user talk page, you deleted Mearsheimer saying that.). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:39, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

I have said multiple times that I think Russia will probably keep much of its territorial gains and that much of Ukraine will get wrecked (I agree with Mearsheimer that Russia will likely wreck Ukraine). You know this. You are just trying to save face due to losing this debate. Conservative (talk) 16:50, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Will the US-backed Maidan and Zelensky regime survive? Will the US and NATO be booted from Western Ukraine and Kyiv, and be replaced with a Putin/Russia stooge regime? Ukraine does not have the manpower or equipment to defend itself. That is the main issue, which you have never addressed. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:16, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Mearseimer has clearly said, if NATO is not driven out of Ukraine, and Ukraine does not declare itself neutral, the probability of nuclear war is very high. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:19, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

And when NATO accepts the inevitability of its defeat in the war that IT started, that most likely will spell the end of the NATO alliance. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:22, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

As Mearsheimer said, "Europe doesn't matter anymore", and when European powers jump ship from behind American leadership and the American defensive umbrella, that means the US WILL NOT be "the leading power for the foreseeable future." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:25, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

You're living in a dream world - after Biden, Blinken, Sullivan, and the neocons castrated you. And you keep begging for more abuse. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:27, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Take a hint: User:Conway! promised back in December to be back April to compare your's Conway's globalist talking points with the reality on the ground; it's now June so he's hiding out. But you have learned nothing of the past year and half, and continuously repeat Western BS, lies, propaganda, globalist talking points. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:40, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

The most insidious thing is you haven't figured out you have been lied to. And you keep begging for more war, more to be added to the national debt, and more inflation. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:44, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

China increased its power recently by being an economic power - not being a great military power - but its future prospects have diminished (See: Skepticism about China remaining a global power). In an age of fourth generation warfare, military power has a lower utility. The world will likely go through some tough economic times through a portion of the 2030's[20], but the USA is best positioned to bounce back economically for a variety of reasons (See: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future). Conservative (talk) 17:55, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

More globalist crap. The United States made China an economic power by granting it MFN, WTO membership, and tariff-free access to American consumer markets - China did not make itself a power, as you claim. And the current war in Ukraine disproves your globalist talking points - that "fourth generation warfare" and information propaganda trumps industrial military capacity. You should just stop copy pasting globalist propaganda and talking points into your brain to make yourself sound intelligent or informed. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:18, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Another strawman as I merely said China increased its strength through economic power. And surely China had a role in negotiating its MFN WTO membership and tariff-free access to American markets.

Also, yet another strawman as I merely said military power has a lower utility. I did not say it has no utility.

Perhaps one of the reasons you are engaging in these strawman arguments is that you are engaging in all-or-nothing thinking. Conservative (talk) 18:31, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

No. The United States increased China's economic strength through trade deals. What planet were you on when President Trump spoke about China for the past 8 years? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:19, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Definition of economics: "the branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth." Trade deals are a part of economics and therefore a part of economic power. China increased its economic power by negotiating trade deals that were favorable to them.

So nothing I said above was in error. Conservative (talk) 19:36, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Make that 12 years.

Reuters: Trump calls U.S. leaders "stupid", April 29, 2011.

Trump’s speech at the Treasure Island Hotel and Casino targeted the U.S. relationship with China, OPEC countries, and Saudi Arabia, while lauding his own accomplishments.

“When people are screwing you, you don’t give them state dinners,” Trump said of China. “We have weak, pathetic leadership. We have incompetent leadership.”

“Our leaders are stupid,” Trump said. “They are stupid people. Its very, very sad.”

What's he talking about? The US granting China Most Favored Nation status access in 2004 to the American consumer market, which shipped American jobs to China, destroyed our manufacturing base, and leaves us with an $875 billion annual trade deficit.

It's fairly obvious, you have not followed events over the past 20 years, and have no understanding of the propaganda you read, which influences the contradictory and absurd things you say. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:37, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

I literally said above: "China increased its economic power by negotiating trade deals that were favorable to them."

It is increasingly clear that you are being contentious and desperately seeking to salvage a debate loss. It's not working. Conservative (talk) 19:45, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

And you just don't want to admit that there are a LOT of better places to live than Russia. Russia is the place that you are not moving to. Conservative (talk) 19:52, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

I don't care. I'm not a pitchman for the Russian Convention and Visitors Bureau. But your arguments that holocaust victims should just move is pretty pathetic. You have no understanding or a sense of justice. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:03, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Much of Donbas is now devastated and uninhabitable. Russian-speaking Ukrainians have fled to Eastern/Central Ukraine. In January 2023, as far as Ukraine, it was reported that a total of 149,300 residential buildings were damaged or destroyed, including: 131,400 private houses, 17,500 apartment buildings and 280 dormitories.

On top of this, a ton of Ukrainians/Russians have died.

If the Russian-speaking Ukrainians had moved at least they could have sold their houses. Now a ton of them have nothing or they are dead.

Both Russia and Ukraine are corrupt and authoritarian. So if you were expecting justice and wisdom from Putin, who is a divorced ex-KGB agent who rarely attends church, you were looking in the wrong place. Conservative (talk) 22:26, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

A great dentist does minimally invasive dentistry. He doesn't go on a reckless tooth-pulling spree and cause a ton of damage. If Putin were a dentist, I would never walk into his office. Conservative (talk) 22:33, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Oh, so Ukraine committed 149,300 war crimes using human shields. I congratulate you on your success. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:44, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

This is a war crime: hiding tanks in civilian structures. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:52, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Bigger Better Stronger - Donald Trump Remix. Let hope for MAGA 2024! (See: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future). USA! USA! USA! Conservative (talk) 23:55, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

For some reason, you keep introducing the names "Donald Trump" and "Republican" into discussions on the current situation in Ukraine; I'm left with the impression that if the neighbor's dog kept pooping in your yard, you'd respond, "Just wait til the next election, the Republicans will fix that!" RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:14, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Ukraine Counter Offensive

The work of the Ukrainian Einsatzgruppen in Kharkov in the fall of 2022. [3]

From: https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/06/14/ukraines-counter-offensive-is-making-mixed-progress

"Ukraine’s counter-offensive is now into its second week. Its shape is gradually becoming clearer. One long-standing axis points east, at the area around the bloodily contested town of Bakhmut and in Luhansk province. A new one aims south and south-east from Velyka Novosilka and Vuhledar in Donetsk province. And a third has opened in the south, where Ukrainian troops are battling their way south around the town of Orikhiv in Zaporizhia province, which forms the central part of the war’s long front line. They are making progress. But neither side has committed its reserves and the most important fighting may not occur for another week or so.

The thrust in Donetsk so far appears to have been the most successful. Ukraine used seven brigades near Velyka Novosilka to liberate around 60 sq km of territory within four days, says Konrad Muzyka of Rochan Consulting, a firm that tracks the war. That included a cluster of villages hugging the Mokri Yaly river, including Blahodatne, liberated on June 11th; Storozheve, where video footage showed marines walking through the village and brandishing a Ukrainian flag in the centre; and Makarivka to the south. The tiny villages of Urozhaine and Staromaiorske may be next."

I predict that, come Christmas 2023:

(1) Russia would have suffered around 330,000 losses (it's at 215,000 now), (2) The Ukrainian Counter Offensive will be largely successful, as was taking Kharkiv back last year (I said the same to my pro-Russia friends elsewhere before it happened, about that Kharkiv counter offensive, and they didn't think it would happen, and then it did) (3) Once F-16s are fully operational, to protect Ukrainian Skies, the Kremlin's campaign of terror will be over, and attacks on Ukrainian civilian facilities and other War Crimes will become effectively impossible, because F-16s add to Ukraine's already strong air defenses. (4) Though some experts are predicting otherwise, I'd say there is a good chance (70% or so) that this War ends within 1 year/Jun 2024.

Of course, no one knows the future with 100% certainty. These are educated guesses based on past occurrences and current realities. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 04:55, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

NishantXavier, by Christmas, how many losses will the Ukrainians have suffered? And what do you base your estimate on? Remember, in offensives, the ones on offense tend to take more casualties. Also, watch the Professor John Joseph Mearsheimer video: "Ukraine Did Well in 2022, But..." | John Mearsheimer On Russia's Firepower Advantage, Biden's Fate. Conservative (talk) 07:02, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Cons: it was an extrapolation from past data. The War began on Feb 24, 2022. Around June 2022, if memory serves, I noticed that Russia was losing nearly 10,000 troops a month. So I posted on a forum that by Christmas (10 months into the War) 2022, they would lose roughly 100,000. Sure enough, here is what the losses were on Dec 25, 2022: https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1606962052643405824?lang=en (102,000 roughly, so quite close). Russia was forced to do increased mobilizations (which led to many Russians fleeing the country, draft dodging by breaking legs etc), and as your Prof Mearsheimer said, Ukraine on the whole did quite well in 2022. In another 6 months since then, Russia has lost a further 115,000. So I predict in another 6 months, they will lose roughly the same amount again, especially once F-16s are in play on the battlefield. With every War Crime Russia commits, Ukraine's resolve to win and NATO's resolve to support them, and eventually induct them as a full member, only grows. Last year, I said HIMARS would make a significant difference once they were supplied: "The HIMARS weapons America supplied to Ukraine may just end up making the difference. According to the below, Russian defenses against them are not working as planned." https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=27620.1785 Even a few days ago, they did: "Russians Furious After Ukraine HIMARS Strike ‘Kills 100 Troops Waiting for Commander’s Speech’", https://www.kyivpost.com/post/18292 Biden was too weak compared to how e.g. a Reagan would have been. If the weapons had gone faster, the Victory would have come faster. But better late than never. Once F-16s, and perhaps ATACMS are in, Ukraine can hardly lose. Ukraine still has a large pool of dedicated professionals, both men and women, working to defend their country. "More than 60,000 Ukrainian women serve in the Ukrainian military defending against Russia’s aggression." https://it.usembassy.gov/ukrainian-women-fight-for-their-countrys-future/

"Ukraine has "probably the best army in the world at the moment," retired Australian army major Mick Ryan said in March ...

As of 2023, Russia had an estimated 1,330,900 people listed among its total military personnel, compared with 500,000 for Ukraine, according to data published by Statista in February." https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-army-best-world-compared-russia-us-military-china-1791441 Russia cannot to squander all its 1 MN soldiers because it needs soldiers to defend its homeland and vast territory. Ukraine will fight to the last man, or last woman, because its fighting for its own homeland and territory. Ukraine is also mostly taking fewer losses.

"According to Ukraine’s General Staff, as of 14 June 2023, Russia lost 217,330 troops killed in action. As of June 2023, Ukraine has lost equipment at a rate three times lower than Russia in the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, according to the visually confirmed losses tracker Oryx; its tank losses are even lower: one-fourth of Russia’s." https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/06/14/russia-loses-five-times-more-troops-than-ukraine-on-the-southern-front-ukraines-deputy-defense-minister/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 01:12, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Euromaidanpress is Nazi publication funded by George Soros and the CIA, that interfered in the US 2016 presidential election and American democracy, and was behind the Trump-Russia collusion hoax. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:57, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Yah, pretty good. Only 7,500 dead and 50% of your armor destroyed. Look at the bright side, you didn't have enough to begin with amd your still only having 600-1,000 of your troops killed daily. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:09, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Former chief propagandist (until he got fired for telling the truth about a Ukraine air defense missile hitting an apartment complex, killing civilians) Alexei Arestovich, who is a former Lt. Col. in military intelligence, said the Russian lines need to be breached in the first 10 days. Today is Day 11. So far, NATO/Ukraine hasn't gotten within 30 km of Russian lines. All the fighting is occurring in the grey zone (any claim that Ukraine "took back" x amount of sq. km. is BS - as all the fighting is in the grey zone, i.e. no mans land between the belligerents' defense fortifications. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:26, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

BIG WHOOPS - ARESTOVICH ADMITS UKRAINE OFFENSIVE CAN'T SUCCEED WITHOUT AIR SUPERIORITY. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:16, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

Editorial comment: Neither Zelensky, the civilian commander, nor Zaluzhny, the top military commander, wanted to do this offensive. They wanted to wait and accumulate more material. They knew it was suicidal if they acted now while they were still unprepared. Biden and Blinken insisted on it - for US domestic political purposes. Since the start, the US insists on results to show the American people for domestic propaganda. None of these people - on the Ukrainian side or US side - have a conscience for all the pain, suffering, and death they have caused. Zelensky could have refused to send men to their death in a hopeless cause, but he didn't. He takes his orders from Biden, Blinken, and Sullivan The Ukrainian state has lost its sovereignty. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:37, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Frm CIA Larry Johnson: Talks Ukraine - Intelligence & USA!. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:11, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Excerpted:

"The Soviet Union, during that critical period following the death of Stalin up until the rise of Leonard Brezhnev, what was it 1964-65, Khrushchev was a Ukrainian, born in Ukraine. He ran the Communist Party in Kiev. So this Union between the old Soviets and Russia and Ukraine, I mean this is nothing of this current development. We have where Ukraine is trying to pretend that it's this unique Nation complete and distinct from Russia. It's just a fantasy. It is the same kind of thing that you see within the West, where all these people declare that they're transgender. They deny biological sex. They deny the biological reality of male and female. They pretend that they're something else. Well, Ukraine is a transgender country in that sense, trying to pretend that it's something that it is not, ignoring its long-standing close ties with Russia. Ignoring the fact that Khrushchev was the one who gave Ukraine many of the benefits that it insists in claims now. "Crimea belongs to us". No it doesn't. That was Khrushchev turned that over to Ukraine back then, because he could. But in fact Crimea was long-standing part of Russia. And without understanding that part of History, you know that old saying that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And the Ukrainians, I think what Russia is looking to do, that's where they talked about demilitarizing denazifying, is to erase or at least eliminate those in positions of power who have pushed this nonsense.

The other day Cons said something like, "The Russian speaking people of Donbas should have moved to Russia." Putin has offered citizenship and passports to the people of Donbas for many years already, and many are duel passport holders. There were more than 700,000 when the 2022 SMO incursion commenced and a million shortly thereafter. After the referendums, all 8 million Donbas residents were given Russian passports and citizenship papers. It is those passport holders now, under Zelensky's martial law decrees, who are being targeted by Ukraine's modern version of Einsatzgruppen (Special Detachments) who follow the main attacking force into villages and settlements and exterminate anyone with a Russian passport or suspected of collaboration (a collaborator is anyone who uses their iphone to give away the position of troops or storage dumps, which is being done by civilians on both sides). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:41, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

The globalist logic behind User:Cons statement, "The Russian speaking people of Donbas should have moved to Russia" to avoid the current conflict is akin to blaming the rape victim for wearing a miniskirt. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:09, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

This genocidal campaign is easy enough to see over the years, most recently when Lindsey Graham says "the Russians are dying," not "Russian troops are dying." You, the American taxpayer who is funding this genocide, failing to recognize that and make the distinction makes you complicit. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:55, June 15, 2023 (EDT)

Updated casualty figures: Since the counteroffensive began, Ukraine has lost 10,000-12,000, Russia lost 1,000. (In the Fall 2022 Counteroffensive, Ukraine lost 24,000 troops to retake the Kharkov region which was occupied by the Russian federal anti-drug and anti-organized crime SWAT unit - an outfit not trained or equipped for combat against a foreign army. Because of Russia's close proximity to Afghanistan, and Russia being used a smuggling route for Afghan heroin to Western Europe for centuries, Russia has a more extensive federal "black helicopter" outfit (the Rosgvardia) than the US Drug Enforcement Agency or the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team to combat drug trafficking and organized crime across its vast open spaces. They were in Ukraine to assist the Russian Investigative Committee (something like the FBI) investigate Nazi war crimes in the liberated territories. They held off the NATO/Ukraine attack on the ground despite a lack of combat training and equipment while the Russian artillery and airforce inflicted 24,000 casualties, until the evacuation was complete.) In 2023, Ukraine only had a force of about 200,000 under arms, including reserves, remaining at the start of the counteroffensive. Russia has matched that in Ukraine, with an additional 300,000+ in Belarus and the frontline of Russia proper. The only way to save Ukraine is with NATO troops. Turkey, NATOs largest manpower contingent force, will not participate in a war against Russia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:57, June 16, 2023 (EDT)

CAPTURED AFU POW: "A REAL SLAUGHTER, SMELL OF CORPSES, GUTS, AND BODYPARTS EVERYWHERE". Congratulations to all you Nazi sympathizers. It isn't like nobody warned you for the past 80 years that this would happen. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:24, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

US CongressA lone US Congressman introduces resolution demanding provision of ATACMS to Ukraine [not likely to get a floor vote]

"On Friday, members of the US House Committee on Foreign Affairs representing the Democratic and Republican parties announced a resolution calling on President Joe Biden's administration to hand over ATACMS long-range missiles to Ukraine.

According to Republican Michael McCall, the co-author of the Resolution, and chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, if the United States does not provide Ukraine with all the necessary weapons, it will help prolong the war.

"The success of the Ukrainian counteroffensive is directly related to the military assistance provided by the United States and our allies. Therefore, it is extremely disappointing that the administration is delaying billions of dollars of military funding, which could be immediately transferred to Ukraine and in turn help its Armed Forces significantly change the situation on the battlefield," he said.

In the document, the decisions of the governments of the UK and France to transfer Storm Shadow and SCALP-EG long-range missiles, respectively, both with a range of 250 kilometres, are mentioned.

"The United States and its allies jointly own thousands of ATACMS missiles that could be transferred to Ukraine," the draft resolution said, stating that Russia's current dominance in long-range weapons "forces Ukrainian forces to fight at a much greater disadvantage".

If passed, the House of Representatives will call on the United States to "immediately transfer to Ukraine a sufficient number of ATACMS to accelerate Ukraine's victory in Russia's unprovoked aggressive war, while maintaining the combat readiness of the US military".

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/9/7406196/ I predict that when ATACMS are supplied, they will have even greater success than the success in 2023 (which those not supporting Ukraine like Prof. Mearsheimer acknowledged) than HIMARS etc did in 2022. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 07:26, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

The S-400 will do the same thing to them that the S-400 will do to F-16s, NASAMS and F-22s. Man, you like wasting money and killing people unnecessarily, do you? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:13, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

BTW, I doubt Kevin McCarthy would be stupid enough to hold a vote on such a divisive, meaningless, unpopular resolution that could only pass with all the fascist totalitarian Democrats voting in tandem with the neocon RINOs. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:03, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

This specifically here is what I'm talking about. So a GOP House member introduces a bill that will split the Republican majority, but Dems are united. Kyiv fascists are quick to write an article about it, although the GOP Speaker, McCarthy will never allow a floor vote on it. You simply don't realize those are the facts of life, but think this fascist headline is big news. Where are your analytical skills, or understanding of the American political process? But you are intent on making yourself a vehicle for globalist, neocon, and fascist propaganda. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:43, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Thug Putin is wasting money and killing people unjustly/unnecessarily in a manifestly Unjust War, just like Nazi Thug Hitler did when he invaded Poland, with Commie Thug Joe Stalin assisting him from the East. Those who say, "If I had lived in the days of Hitler/Stalin, I swear on my life I would have done everything possible to assist their Poor Victims" have a chance to prove it now. That's what we who support Ukraine's Righteous Self-Defense are doing. Russia is there to kill, maim, rape, annex and steal territory by usurping it illegally or illicitly, and the only reason it hasn't done much, much more damage is because of Western Weapons. Western Weapons save Ukrainian Lives, which is why there is 90+% support for it. Putin is the Aggressor here and needs to leave. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no Ukraine. If Putin stops fighting, there will be no War. It is a very small portion of the defense budget. Russia also has elections in 2024, and someone other than Putin winning that election could also help end the War. Till then, the fight goes on. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 08:32, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

bla bla bla - fascist neocon talking points. You could be replaced with a robot, and your globalist masters probably intend to do that eventually. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:07, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Rather, they are Democracy/Anti-Communist/Anti-Fascist "talking points". We will defeat the globalists, and you're not helping. Putin is a Dictator; supporting him is morally wrong just like supporting Stalin or Mao. He wants to impose his will both within his country and outside. I support leaders who are decent and moral and who stand for freedom against communism/globalism and other tyrannical ideologies. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 09:37, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

You need education. The neocon globalists started the war. The neocon globalists support the think tanks that write the talking points that the neocon globalist controlled media spew in propaganda that you echo, for the neocon globalist military industrial complex whose lobbyists donate to politicians who push the same neocon globalist fascist spending and propaganda. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:05, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Putin started the War, after denying he was even going to invade in the first place, mocking it as Western Hysteria, thus knowingly lying. "Russian officials said no invasion of Ukraine was underway and none was planned." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-17/russia-tells-u-s-no-ukraine-invasion-planned-tass-says#xj4y7vzkg February 17,2022. Yeah, we all know how that worked out 7 days later.

Putin caused some 10 MN people to suffer, get that through your skull. There is no way his invasion is justified. Whether you choose to see the Truth or not is up to you. I for one will not stop opposing Putin, because it's the Christian/morally right thing to do.

"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow." (Isaiah 1:16-17) Putin also wants to steal Ukraine's territory: "Thou shalt not covet" what is your neighbors", and "Thou shalt not steal", Putin fails both commandments as he does also, "Love your neighbor" in the most literal way. Ukraine is his neighbor and he not fails to lvoe them, he hates them and tries to kill them. The verse that applies to Putin is from St. John's First Epistle: "Whoever hates his brother/neighbor is a Murderer, and you know that no Murderer has Eternal Life abiding in him". NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 13:52, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Invoking God's name to push lies. Hmmm, let's see here now.... RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:51, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

We were forced to try to end the war that the West started in 2014 by force of arms…And Russia will end this war by force of arms, freeing the entire territory of the former Ukraine from the United States and Ukrainian Nazis…There are no other options…The Ukrainian army of the US and NATO will be defeated, no matter what new types of weapons it receives from the West…The more weapons there are, the fewer Ukrainians and what used to be Ukraine will remain…Direct intervention by NATO’s European armies will not change the outcome…But in this case, the fire of war will engulf the whole of Europe…It looks like the US is ready for that too”. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:37, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

This whole resolution is just cover for the Nazisymps when public support for Ukraine collapses and NATO is defeated. Then a Congressman can say, "My bill would have prevented the devastating loss of American power and prestige with its defeat in Ukraine, but it didn't get a floor vote." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:55, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

I'm going to harp on this thread for a while, because it shows the extraordinary bad judgement and political skills of some conservatives and Republicans.

Just as in the recent vote to expel Adam Schiff from Congress, where 20 Nazisymps and warmongers sided with Democrats, why would a Speaker hold a floor vote that divides his own party - that elected him Speaker - and hand a victory to the Democrats? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:30, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Reporter Johnny Miller shows how Mariupol has come back to life

[21] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:07, June 17, 2023 (EDT)

Schrodinger's Offensive

Good read for up to the minute summary without a lot of military technical analysis. [22] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:10, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

There can be no denazification without the de-Americanization of Ukraine. No denazification is possible in that part of Ukraine that will remain under US rule. It was for the sake of growing Nazism that the United States came to Ukraine. Money is not their main goal. They will pay any price for the destruction of Russia. - Elena Panini Institute of Russia Strategic Studies. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:22, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

The farce that the Ukraine war has become was fairly obvious last January when Germany was refusing to send its Leopard 2 tanks for a Ukrainian spring offensive. Then Germany announced it would only send its tanks alongside American M1 Abrams. Then the Biden regime announced it was sending its Abrams M1s. Then Germany announced it would send its Leopards. The next day Biden announced the M1 Abrams wouldn't be ready until January 2024.

What's this all mean? It means both German and American military analysts knew their tanks would get slaughtered against Russian defenses. It means defense contractors are the ultimate winners for replacement equipment contracts and upgrades. It means Germany has no sovereignty, which is the same path Ukraine is following. And it means the NATO alliance may not survive very long come next January, 2024. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:51, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Another reason why Vladimir Putin's decision to launch a special operation in February of 2022 will hurt Russia's future

Reuters, an authoritive news source, reported LARPers with paintball guns repelled a Russian attack near Kharkov. [4]

Both Ukraine/Russia have poor leadership/populations that are unlikely to develop thriving societies that will greatly have both peace and prosperity in the future.

Russia faces shrinking middle class, rising inequality, study finds":

"Russia's middle class will shrink as social inequality grows over coming years, an economic study conducted by Russian experts suggested, as sanctions against Moscow and limited growth potential scupper development prospects...

Russia's economy proved unexpectedly resilient in the face of tough Western sanctions last year, but a return to pre-conflict levels of prosperity may be far off as more government spending is directed towards the military.

The study's most optimistic scenario sees real incomes exceeding 2021 levels by around 2% in 2030 and poverty dropping below 10% from 11.8% in 2022. In that scenario, the size of the middle class would still drop to 14%-31% by 2030 from current estimates of 20%-50%." Conservative (talk) 14:01, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Wow. Reuters is not only in the business of reporting fake news, now they forecast the future: "Russia's middle class will shrink". I'll stick with Miss. Chloe for now; she has a better track record. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:08, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Secondly, please stop lying to my face: "I don't follow the news anymore, etc etc etc." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:09, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Russia's decision to do a war economy or a guns and butter economy has economic consequences for Russia.

As far as a guns and butter economic curve (military vs. non-military] spending) spending on the military faces opportunity cost. For example, in this example: "To increase the production of guns kom 20 to 30 and kom 40 to 50 means that society is giving up 5 pounds of butter each time. So to get 10 guns means giving up 5 pounds of butter. So the per unit opportunity cost of increasing the production of guns is F2 pound of butter. That is, if 10 guns=51bs of butter; then, 1gun=1/2 lb of butter." Conservative (talk) 14:25, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

I think we pretty well proved:

(a) you don't know what you're talking about;

(b) your sources stink.

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:31, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Reuters cites "Russian experts". Anyways, anyone who knows about the guns and butter curve and opportunity cost as far Macroconomics 101 knows that the Russian experts are not saying anything unreasonable. There is no free lunch in economics. Conservative (talk) 14:34, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

What the heck's a "Russian expert", somebody bribed by or on the CIA payroll? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:37, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

You know, we have these three articles, Psychological warfare, Psyops, and fake news, which I thought you even contributed to, but have evidently never bothered to read or understand. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:39, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

You are engaging in bulverism/genetic fallacy. Also, you never demonstrated those Russian experts and/or Reuters were bribed by the CIA.

Reuters report on Kharkiv, June 8, 2022 (left); enlarged section from Reuters report showing Kharkiv civilian with swastika tattoo (right). [23][24]

More importantly, the guns and butter curve in macroeconomics and opportunity costs are not something that the Russians/Putin or any government can avoid. Conservative (talk) 14:44, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

I demonstrated you main source - Reuters - has a Russophobic bias and does sloppy research. Reuters further denies Putin's claim of Ukrainie's Nazi problem. Your source stinks. It not only stinks, it's a bunch of Nazi apologists. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:06, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Can Russia get an economic free lunch or will its economy suffer due to the guns vs. butter curve and opportunity costs? There is never a free lunch in economics and to believe otherwise is totally irrational. Conservative (talk) 15:14, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

You just don't when to stop. After using nazi propaganda to insult all of us, you continue. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:16, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

You need to prove you have purged all the nazi propaganda you have absorbed into your brain about Vladimir Putin and Russia over the past 16 months before you are qualified to discuss or debate this subject. Till then, you are just spewing Russophobic Nazi hate. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:20, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Given that I took a Russian homeless lady into my residence and that I have a Russian music collection and a Russian Christian music collection at this website, your unproven claim that I am Russophobic is going to be very hard to prove. But you can certainly try - albeit unsuccessfully. Also, ad hominem arguments are illegitimate arguments and illogical.

And don't think I didn't notice that you tried to sidestep my guns/butter and opportunity cost strong argument because I definitely did notice. Conservative (talk) 15:52, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Here's your buddies. Here's what Putin thinks of your buddies. Until you can address the specifics in those two videos, we don't have much more to talk about. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:15, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Even Mark Felton, the historian and producer of the first 8 min clip, has now officially flipped since February 2022 when he put out propaganda rebuking Putin, claiming the Nazis of Ukraine today have no connection to the Nazis of WWII. Everyone at that time thought the war would be over in six weeks. The NATO nazis, Biden and BoJo, kept it going because their stated intention is identical to Adolf Hitler's, - to destroy Russia.RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:34, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Update: The History behind the Regional Conflict in Ukraine, by John-Paul Himka. Note: Himka is the brother-in-law married to the sister of Canadian neo-Nazi and deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland, the granddaughters a Nazi resettled in Canada, as the Mark Felton video linked above discusses. These nazi offspring (like Alexander Vindman, Alexandra Chalupa, Freeland, etc) have risen to positions of power and trust in NATO and the West, with the same Nazi ideology and obsession toward the Hitlerian dream of destroying Russia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:22, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

I see that you are still trying to sidestep my very strong guns and butter and opportunity cost argument. As "The Donald" would say, "Sad!". Conservative (talk) 16:50, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Because you don't know or understand jack about these issues.

The terms "Nazisymp" and "Nazi apologist" will now have a ring and stick to Putin critics and Russophobes who have fostered this slaughter in Ukraine for the past 15 months, now that it is a foregone conclusion that Ukraine, NATO, and the United States have lost, and will lose. Sure, if Mearsheimer's prediction comes true that Russia will nuke America first before it loses is somewhat remote, it still guarantees an American (and NATO) defeat.

All the people who have not removed their blue and yellow emojis, and continue baseless, relentless attacks on Vladimir Putin and Russia, will forever be tarred as Nazis. Until you show an inkling of understanding of that fact, we have little to discuss or debate. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:58, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Thanks to my Polish-American macroeconomics professor I certainly understand the guns and butter curve and the opportunity cost economics concepts. I also know there is never a free lunch in economics. Long live capitalism! Conservative (talk) 17:02, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Why do you continue to aid Nazis? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:05, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Non sequitur argument. You dogged attempts to avoid basic economics 101 is rather humorous. Conservative (talk) 17:13, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

You guns and butter argument, as proven above, is based on the nazi propaganda you have allowed to infiltrate your brain. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:12, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

You don't have to take my word for it (as you never do); there's enough of your documented support for Nazism in your own words over the past 15 months in Conservapedia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:16, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Russia, Ukraine, and the Future World Order, Published online by Cambridge University Press: 27 October 2022

Russia's invasion of Ukraine, initiated on February 24, 2022, is among the most—if not the most—significant shocks to the global order since World War II.

I have contributed over 35 items to Conservapedia proven right since 2017, mostly on Russiagate, Coronavirus, and the NATO war in Ukraine. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:19, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Godwin's law strikes again! Conservative (talk) 17:20, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

I've asked a thousand times to just shut up when you begin veering off into Nazism, but you just ignore it. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:27, June 18, 2023 (EDT)

Prof. Jeffrey Sachs

I hope you understand who Prof. Jefferey Sachs is before you start spanning his name all over MPR. it is a welcome relief however from all the Nazi agitprop you spam on this page and in other CP mainspace articles and Essays. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:41, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

I don't agree with all of Sachs' views. But since he is friendly with the various people left of center, he could contact them and get their frank views on American relations with Russia - namely on how they were unwilling to have a more peaceable and less provocative relations with Russia. Someone like Mearsheimer who is somewhat more to the right, they would never talk to. American foreign policy makers have never asked Mearsheimer his views - even though he is a self-described liberal. But if you don't want Sachs spilling the beans, that is fine. After all, you are firmly committed to the genetic fallacy. Conservative (talk) 15:57, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

I restored the edit, but labeled Sachs as being politically left of center. Conservative (talk) 16:08, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Now you are attempting to discredit and slander your own source, confusing our readers.

You have had 15 months to discuss Prof. Sachs with me, instead you have focused on nazi agitprop. I have never posted Sachs name on MPR in that time. That should have given you a clue. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:19, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Sachs is politically left of center. But not 100% of what someone who is overall left/liberal-leaning says is always untrue. That is why logicians have the genetic fallacy. In a similar vein, defense lawyers sometimes call hostile witnesses.

You quote Professor John Joseph Mearsheimer on main page right. And you know Mearsheimer is a self-described liberal. You are being inconsistent. You can cite liberals/leftists on main page right, but you whine when I do. Once again, you are being unreasonable.

Lastly, I don't take my lead from Putin/Russia cheerleaders and I never will. Conservative (talk) 16:39, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Look, for 15 months i said you do not have clue what you are talking about vis-a-vis geopolitics and the War in Ukraine that the United States started. And your discovering of Prof. Sachs only now proves that. Leave it at that, rather than another of your lengthy wronghheaded arguments it takes 15 months for you to figure out that you were wrong.

Just begin listening to Sachs when he speaks, knowing he's a climate change activist advisor to the UN General Secretary, and that once nazism is defeated in NATO & Ukraine, we'll have differences with Sachs (albeit with some respect and appreciation for the man). Leave it at that. Don't argue with me using boneheaded arguments you know will fail in the end. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:48, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

LALALA! I don't follow the news. I have better things to do with my life to advance my skills and contribute to humanity.

I know he is left of center. And I am not mistaken, and I don't think I am, Andy Schlafly has quoted liberals/leftists when they agree with him and say something that is correct. Read up on the genetic fallacy - even though you often like having illogical and inconsistent views and often try to screen out legitimate information you don't like merely because you disagree with it. Conservative (talk) 16:55, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

BFD. Focus on the nazis in the Biden & Zelensky admins and NATO. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:00, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Regards Andy, CP official editorial position is to support Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. for the Democratic party presidential nomination in 2024. Given the level of censorship and demonization of RFK, we are attempting to place at least one story about RFK daily in MPR headlines to help him, and keep the focus on him. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:07, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

You're a day late and a dollar short again, anyway. I already posted the Neutrality Studies link with Jeffrey Sachs to MPR days ago and the Mearsheimer link I posted to your usertalk for comment and discussion days ago which you reverted and deleted, again rudely stating it was unwelcome.

These BS arguments with you get tiring when you absolutely refuse to listen to other people. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:00, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

I politely told you before your political post to my talk page which was deleted that I didn't want any further political posts of yours to my talk page. So I was not the one being rude. In 2023, I intend to change my various priorities/interests. Conservative (talk) 22:08, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

On more point: Your "generic fallacy" arguments you learned from David Girard and others who repeatedly tore your arguments apart for years gets especially old and tiring, since you obviously don't understand jack about logic, either. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:32, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

guns and butter

A Russian lawmaker makes the same prediction about economic doom for the US after 2030 that Cons makes, based on the same premise of an exploding national debt. Albeit, he doesn't foresee Cons same prophesy of the US remaining the world's "leading power for the foreseeable future."

“Previously, 70% of international trade was serviced by the dollar, now it is 60%...Can you imagine, 10% in just a short period of time – this is significant...Naturally, this process will continue, because the US undermines partners trust with their actions...So, of course, not in one or two years, but in ten years, America as a great financial power will cease to exist...The US can one of these days let everyone down, because effectively it cannot pay its debts...The gross domestic product it produces is less than the debts it accumulates and whatever the country earns will not be enough to pay its debts...Meanwhile, the US keeps borrowing all over the world and pays out by building up domestic debt...So eventually, there will come a time when there will be so much debt that it will become impossible to fulfill obligations...And then the US economy will collapse”. [25]

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:33, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

The disastrous 2022 Lend Lease Ukraine aid package of $116 billion is a classic guns and butter illustration. We're out of guns now, and have no ability to produce more - at least on a scale to compete with Russia, let alone Russian and China combined. That's what your nazi leadership has done for you and to your country since Biden seized power. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:43, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

During World War II, federal debt peaked at 106 percent of gross domestic product in 1946.[26] It was not until the early 21st century that the US finally paid off its debt from World War II.[27]

Today, the USA's national debt to GDP ratio is 116.1%.[28]

It will take decades for Americans to pay off the national debt if this happens. And it will require Americans retiring later, defense budget cuts, a merit-based legal immigration system (Winning sports teams bring in the best players), and pro-growth economic policies. The failed presidency of Jimmy Carter was followed by 12 years of Republican rule. I am hoping that Joe Biden's failed presidency leads to a similar string of Republican victories. But time will tell. American economic growth will go a long way to help pay back America's national debt and today's left-leaning Democrats are a drag on the USA economy.

The main reason I believe that the USA will be the preeminent power in the 21st century is other countries have even bigger problems than the USA (See: The United States will be the leading power in the world for the foreseeable future). In addition, innovation and technology will be very important in the 21st century and the USA has a population that has a strong track record of innovation.

Hopefully, a USA economic depression and political polarization will not cause the United States to break up in the 21st century. Conservative (talk) 21:43, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

So what is it? the US is breaking up, or the bloated, stale US defense budget will keep America the "leading power for the foreseeable future" by force and intimidation despite the fact that China graduates 1 million more scientists and engineers annually with a growing economy? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:41, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Oh, and we've even avoided a discussion on the uselessness of America's expensive Wunderwaffen in Ukraine. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:43, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

China is going to face MAJOR problems in the 21st century (See: Skepticism about China remaining a global power). Conservative (talk) 23:13, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

For various reasons such as its aging baby boomer population, its national debt and other reasons, I suspect America's future troop deployments will decline in future years (See: Who will Dominate the Geopolitical System in this Decade?). As can be seen in the chart above, it is down from the Vietnam War era.

The above chart was supplied by User: Conservative. Conservative (talk) 22:58, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

What's the defense budget now? Was it diminished in accordance with these diminishing deployments? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:00, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Watch the video cited below the graph. Conservative (talk) 23:02, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Nah, I have more important things to attend to other than following sources from someone without discernment to recognize Nazi propaganda. Pr. 14:7. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:11, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Digression on the National Debt:

Cons: "It will take decades for Americans to pay off the national debt"

You are giving away too much. The national debt can never be "paid off" under the current structure. Every dollar from workers' paychecks in Social Security withholding is ADDED to the national debt. The national debt cannot be "paid off" by working, since it is American workers who drive the increase in national debt.

Again, you are giving away too much about your lack of understanding of some of these basic issues. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:49, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

If you actually ever read Milton Friedman, you would know that. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:53, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

The more number of Americans employed, the longer hours they work, the more overtime they put in, automatically fuels the increase in the national debt because of the Social Security withholding tax. It is the single largest driving force behind an ever increasing national debt. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:58, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Why did Putin call the dissolution of the Soviet Union the biggest tragedy of the 20th Century? because the Soviet Union reneged on its promises to workers to pay them Social Security benefits in their old age. The Russian federation held to those promises, but Ukraine and the Baltic States have denied Russian speakers their justly owed pensions that they worked for.

So when you bellyache about "paying off" the national debt, what are you proposing? Ending the Social Security tax? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:05, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

There are no solutions, only tradeoffs, like throwing grandma from cliff, as you evidently propose when talking about "paying off the national debt". RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:06, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

My advice, again, just shut up when talking about things you have no understanding of. It's just a waste of time for both of us, since you ardently refuse to listen to others. Just concentrate on improving your own personal skills. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:08, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

I wrote above some major changes that the USA would have to make to significantly pay down the debt. I have nothing further to say about this matter. Conservative (talk) 23:09, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

LALALA! I can't hear you! I'm not listening! RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:12, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

African Delegation urges Putin to start Peace Talks with Ukraine

God Bless them. Africa is suffering heavily from Putin's War, as it suffered heavily under the Communist CCP Covid Virus also. Poor Africa.

"Adelegation of African leaders has urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to begin peace talks with Ukraine during a meeting with the Russian leader in St. Petersburg.

"We would like to encourage you to start negotiations with Ukraine," Azali Assoumani, the president of Comoros and the current chairman of the African Union (AU), told Putin on Saturday, according to the Russian news agency Interfax.

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said, "We are convinced that the time has come for both sides to start negotiations and end this war." https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/african-delegation-urges-putin-to-start-peace-talks-with-ukraine NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 04:38, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

South Africa has no leverage. And its country has corrupt and incompetent leadership that is the cause of its rolling blackouts.

The country is moving towards being a failed state. Conservative (talk) 10:30, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

As a founding member of BRICS, South Africa has plenty of leverage. Let's not get into the game of Biden State Depatments's racist slandering and disrespect for Africans. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:27, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Once again, Nishant is only getting half the story. The Biden State Department had the Polish government hold the African press corp hostage in Warsaw while Ramaphosa travelled on to Kyiv where Zelensky, on US instructions, rejected the offer to mediate peace talks out of hand, with no press there to cover it. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 14:47, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

This a good illustration how propaganda narratives are formed: After the US thwarting Russia-Ukraine peace talks for a second time, the headline Nishant posted makes it appear Putin is thwarting peace talks when the talks fail to materialize. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:10, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Again, you have to have some kind of strategy in your mind, as you pray and work for the world to get better. My prayer/hope is that Putin loses the 2024 elections and leaves. The Next Russian Leader, and Ukraine, negotiate a Just Peace. Problem Solved. Then, De Santis wins. (Not guaranteed, of course, it has to be prayed and worked for; but it's important if you really care to defeat the LBGT/Woke Agenda, as you profess). So that battle must be fought and won like that, 2 issues solved. As for South Africa et al, I think the Global South is of the Greatest Importance, if for nothing else because of its significant population. Boris Johnson called some of the Global South Countries, "Global Swing States", showing many of the leaders of NATO countries, and Ukraine too, are recognizing how important it is to have support from African and Latin American Countries. And, to go one step further, I would say, just as NATO is already planning to expand into Asia and the Indo-Pacific, the next logical step, necessary also so as not to discriminate and exclude no one, is also to welcome Latin American and African Countries who want to join. Of course, if there is Islamic Radicalism, as in some countries in North Africa, that's a problem. But in other Countries, including Nigeria where Christians are heavily persecuted, those countries could actually use NATO assistance and help to preserve the Peace and end Persecution of Christians and other Innocents, and defeat Islamic Radicalism. All these are big ideas for how to make the world better in the 21st Century. NATO's current thinking is still fairly limited imo. With better leaders, things will get better in time. I support Estonian PM Kaja Kallas for next NATO leader. Eastern European Countries, that suffered most severely under Soviet Communism (remember, some 12-20 MN Christians died under Soviet persecutions, including in Eastern European Countries), know it best. World Peace is important for many reasons including the spread of the Gospel. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:39, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Yah, I want Santa to bring me a Mercedes Benz for Christmas. Till then, I have to live in the here and now. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:52, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

And OMG! " My prayer/hope is that Putin loses the 2024 elections and leaves. The Next Russian Leader, and Ukraine, negotiate a Just Peace. Problem Solved."

What? OMG! You mean NATO is warring against a democracy, and trying to destroy another democratic state? OMG! RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:54, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

O ye of little faith, read this first: "But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord." (James 1:6-8). NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:59, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

And, NATO is not warring against anyone. Complete Non Sequitur. The US and UK are keeping up their Contractual Obligations under the Budapest Memorandum to Protect Ukraine in the event of a Russian Invasion. The other NATO countries also have that obligation, because a prospective NATO member also deserves certain security assurances and guarantees, like for e.g. Finland had before its accession. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 18:01, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

We've discussed the Budapest memorandum before. If there were any truth to the claim, "The US and UK are keeping up their Contractual Obligations under the Budapest Memorandum to Protect Ukraine", why didn't the US and UK defend Ukraine's territorial integrity with US and UK troops in 2014 at the time of the Crimean Annexation, instead of waiting 8 years while their Kyiv puppet regime murdered 14,000 Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine with the US-supplied weapons and training? And they are not keeping their "contractual obligations" now; where are the US and UK troops on the ground they promised in 1994? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:02, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

You said it. It's a question you must answer now. Is Russia authoritarian or democratic? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:09, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Lol. Look at your sophisms. First, (1) Russia blatantly violated its commitments under the BM, right from 2014 itself, second (2) the UK and US are keeping it. Your argument is, because they didn't do as much as they could have and should have immediately, therefore they shouldn't do now either? At least they woke up now. It's like arguing, if FDR and Churchill tried to negotiate in the beginning with Hitler, after his invasion of some countries, therefore, they should never have tried to stop him. Doesn't follow. They tried to negotiate as long as they thought it was possible. When they realized it was impossible, they stopped trying, and just fought back. It's same here.

You are being redundant and spamming. Address the specific questions: Was the democratic government that signed the Budapest protocols in 1994 overthrown in 2014? Secondly, did the US commit to supplying boots on the ground in 2014 with the Budapest memorandum? Do not spam with redundant postings. Thank you. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:38, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

As for whether Russia has a democracy, yes, it does in theory; there are multiple candidates, however if you criticize Putin too sharply, and are a serious opponent who could actually win, he'll have you poisoned or shot, or thrown in prison. Just ask Nemtsov or Navalny. Or you can try moving to Russia, and then criticizing Putin's "special military operation" just to see how much democratic freedoms and freedom of speech really exist in Putin's Russia. Don't actually try it, because the KGB/FSB will be knocking your door soon. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:29, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Repentance is to have a change of mind - to recognize and admit that you chose to believe Satanic lies. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:13, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

And a brief comment on prayer: prayer is not about God fulfilling a wish list - I think you have it completely backwards. Prayer is asking God to help your mind align with God's mind. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:45, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

Nope, both your comments are mistaken, and reflect certain, Lutheran/Liberal errors. Repentance is not just a "change of mind", it is that, but it is more than that; it is a complete transformation of the whole person, a change both of mind and of heart, i.e. of will. When Mary Magdalene repented of her former life, she chose not to love sin any longer but to love Christ instead. Same with Zaccheus and others. So too, if someone repents of say, cussing/swearing, he should not just "change his mind about it", but also start learning to love new things, i.e. speaking of Christ and holy things, rather than of evil things etc. So repentance must be a heartfelt transformation.

As for whether those supporting Ukraine need to repent, why would we? Do those supporting Poland when it was fighting Nazi Thugs from one side and Commie Thugs from another in its Self-Defense need to repent. Nope. If anything, the other side needs to repent. Our Conscience is clear before God. As for Prayer, again it's not just about [mind] [remniscent of faith alone]. It's about aligning your will with God's will, and asking and praying for those things God wills to come about, for e.g. the Salvation of Souls, or World Peace, through Christ, the Prince of Peace; The Lord's prayer says, "Thy Will be done", and God's Will is "that no one should perish, but all should come to repentance" (2 Pet 3:9), for your Father "wills that all men should come to the knowledge of the Truth and be saved" (1 Tim 2:4) etc.

So, those who pray for the Salvation of Souls, and for World Peace, which greatly helps the Great Commission go forward, are doing the Will of God. Doing the Will of God is necessary for salvation according to: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will. enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who. does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Mat 7:21), so I will continue to do it. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:37, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

St. John teaches this in 1 Jn 5: "14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him." NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 02:42, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

I just don't share your love of neo-Nazi killers and warmongers, and hope you repent. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:54, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Putin Shows African Leaders Draft Peace Treaty Americans Thwarted in March 2022

[29] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:21, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

Ukrainian Einsatzgruppen interrogate Kherson grandfather

[30] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:28, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

This video gives some insight into Putin's phrase about the "greatest tragedy of the 20th century". When asked, "Where were you born?", the old man answers "here" (in Russia), which now the Ukrainian Nazis will exterminate him for giving the wrong answer. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:42, June 20, 2023 (EDT)

A question for Putinist Comsymps

Why is it that the pro-Putin, supposedly "anti-Nazi" site SouthFront has connections to anti-Zionist, Jew-hating propaganda mouthpiece "Veterans Today"? A bit strange that Veterans Today glowingly repeats SouthFront narratives, don't you think?

There's plenty of despicable propaganda on both sides of the NATO–Russia War accusing "the Jews" of masterminding some conspiracy. Well, what is for certain is that Nazis are playing on both sides accusing the other of "Jewish control."

Just on a larger side note, a common recurring theme in history seems to be that "the Jews" are scapegoated for the globalist world order by the very beneficiaries of the internationalist elites; the devious crooks destroy the world and throw the innocent blood that's upon them on the Jews, thereby washing their own hands clean and forcing innocent Jews to take the blame for their crimes. The most notable modern example is arguably the blaming of Jews for Communism which was facilitated instead by the Jesuits, Freemasons, and Wall Street, among others. The Papal Regime creates atheistic Communist ideology as a planned "antithesis" to Christianity (which of course, was to serve the purpose of watering down the influence of the Orthodox Church that long opposed their tyranny; Russia was deposed of Czarist rule by the Bolshevik Revolution) which is blamed on the Jews and then the Papcay takes credit for smashing the Communist Soviet Union. —LT ^{Rev. 22:13} Wednesday, 17:01, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

I already told you SouthFront is GRU. Wikipedia claims it's the Russian Foreign Ministry. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:05, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Now you are getting into the Syrian war, where Russia supports its ally the Assad regime. Don't confuse the discussion with extraneous facts. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:07, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Oh, I see: the Putinist side is just full of Nazi buddies. [31][32] So much for smashing global Nazism, eh? —LT ^{Rev. 22:13} Wednesday, 17:09, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Incidentally, what is the purpose of posting Natasha Bertrand to this talk page? Do you pay any attention to your arguments or sources at all? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:36, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

See for example Fake_news#Russiagate_in_a_nutshell: "One of the journalists who most aggressively promoted the fake Trump/Alfa-Bank server story was Natasha Bertrand, who was at the center of so many Russiagate frauds including the Steele Dossier and got promoted over and over for it, as of 2021 working at CNN." Among about 2 dozen other references to her in CP. She warrants her own article, and sure as heck is not a credible source for whatever anti-Putin, neo-nazi point you are trying to make. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:22, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

No, the US/CIA side is. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:11, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Yes, the establishment CIA elitists are funding Ukronazis, but plenty of American Nazis openly support Putin. —LT ^{Rev. 22:13} Wednesday, 17:18, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Don't shoot from the hip. Read Solzhenitsyn's 200 Years Together. [33] Wikipedia has a surprisingly balanced review. Solzhenitsyn won't fit nicely into your stereotype of an anti-semite or Nazi based on your understanding of the terms from Angelo-American sources and idioms, where some have tried to place Solzhenitsyn in his later years. But his writings about communism and the Jews are widely current in modern Russia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:40, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

The Solzhenitsyn Center posts this caveat:

"With respect to an English edition—to recapitulate the above—an authorized translation of the full work is in progress and scheduled for publication in 2024.

Meanwhile, readers need to be forewarned that any and all English versions available on the Internet (with two important exceptions listed below) are illegal, pirated, a gross violation of international copyright law, and/or entirely unauthorized; often poorly and loosely translated; and redact passages, and indeed whole chapters, that apparently do not support the prejudices of those behind these illegal editions. English-language readers who wish to learn more about the book are invited to consult the resources listed below. [Bolden in original].

This is one link the Center recommends until the authorized version appears. [34] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:19, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) With the development of the Iranian hypersonic missile (which the racist geniuses in the American military industrial complex haven't figured out how to build yet), changes the fundamental dynamic between Israel, Syria and Iran. If you want to criticize SouthFront & the GRU, stick to relevant facts. Thanks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:11, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Bottomline: if you are interested in war news and weapons development, SouthFront has a better reputation for credibility than the US Pentagon, State Department, or White House. Unlike US sources, they are actually concerned about their reputation for credibility. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:17, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

1. REDIRECT Template:Hide collapse

I'm afraid this discussion is rapidly exposing how little you know about or understand Soviet Communism. The GRU was never a communist organization. The KGB was organized for the distinct purpose of forcing the only organized group in the Soviet Union with guns that posed a potential threat to the regime - the Russian military - to obey the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (likewise, the Nazi SS performed the same function against the German Army). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:57, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Two well publicized historical events can be used to illustrate - and the power dynamic extended throughout the life of both the USSR and the Third Reich.

(1) the Great Purges of 1938. The KGB arrested and tried supposed traitors in the Soviet military;

(2) the July 20, 1944 assassination plot against Hitler. The SS arrested and executed the coup plotters.

In both cases, professional military leadership were neither Nazis nor Communists, but rather patriots who loved their homeland and wanted to protect it from an internal enemy. This dynamic was true in the military establishments of both countries throughout the life of both regimes, and is why the SS & KGB were founded to monitor the professional military and its leadership. Accusing German soldiers or the Russian military of being "nazis" or "communists" is not just naive, it is Germanophobic and Russophobic at heart. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:06, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Now, once you grasp and comprehend this fundamental fact about German Nazism and Soviet Communism, then we can move onto a discussion of Chinese and Cuban communism, which is really quite different. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:10, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Right now, in the United States, the United States military is undergoing the same ideological purging that existed in the USSR and Third Reich throughout their existence. A military establishment needs and has more technical people than ideological (people who studied geometry for artillery rather than Marxist philosophy, for example), so although some technicians are allowed to remain, the ideological police keep an eye on them. My advice: focus on this subject right now in the US, rather than posting your misconceptions about communist and nazi ideology, past and present. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:20, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Papacy and communism

The Papacy didn't create Atheistic Communism. That's a lie and a slander. The Popes were one of the first to condemn Communism.

"Communism is intrinsically wrong, and no one who would save Christian civilization may collaborate with it in any undertaking whatsoever." https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19370319_divini-redemptoris.html NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:10, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Even Soviet Premier Gorbachev conceded the fall of the Soviet Union would have been impossible without Pope St. John Paul II. Pope St. John Paul II was a Pro-Life Hero and Anti-Communist Champion. Even President Reagan knew that this was True and respected the Pope for it.

"MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Former Soviet Union leader Mikhail Gorbachev said Sunday that Pope John Paul II's "devotion to his followers is a remarkable example to all of us." Gorbachev, who once said the collapse of the Iron Curtain would have been impossible without John Paul II, said the pope condemned communism the first time the two met in 1989, shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall." https://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/03/pope.gorbachev/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:13, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

Also, regarding Jews, there are Good Jews (e.g. Ben Shapiro) and Bad Jews (e.g. George Soros), just like there are Good Muslims and Bad Muslims etc. Someone who hates all Jews or all Muslims for their ethnicity or some such thing sins in doing so. But, if he legitimately critcizes the bad actions of bad Jews or bad Muslims, that is in no way wrong, but perfectly correct, right and legitimate.

Geinrich Yagoda was a Jewish Mass Murdering Communist Terrorist who killed 10 Million People. These are simple historical facts largely unknown today. Here's a Jewish Site explain it: "And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system." https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:16, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

"Good Jews and Bad Jews", or "renegades" as Solzhenitsyn called them in 200 Years. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:09, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

The specifics of the Reagan (and Bill Casey)-John Paul relationship was, the Pope had the network of connections in Poland thru parish priests, and the CIA provided "modern technology" then, i.e. satellite dishes for access to Western media (which at the time was not as communist controlled and dominated as later) which could get around electronic radio broadcast jamming. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:14, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

[EC] [EC] NishantXavier, the Papacy promulgates two types of teachings: the exoteric, for the masses, and the esoteric, for the insiders. While they publicly claim to oppose Communism, why is it that Communist leaders are influenced by Jesuits? Take, for instance, Fidel Castro. I believe Karl Marx and Joseph Stalin were also Jesuit-trained. —LT ^{Rev. 22:13} Wednesday, 17:17, June 21, 2023 (EDT)

False. Where's your proof Karl Marx and Joseph Stalin were trained by Jesuits?

And did you read your own link? "1959 – Castro takes power by leading a Marxist revolution. He bans religious celebrations, closes down more than 400 Catholic schools, including Belen, seizes church properties, and jails and expels Catholic priests.

1962 – The Vatican, which had excommunicated all Catholics involved with communist groups in its 1949 Decree Against Communism, adds Fidel Castro to the list of those ejected from the church." NishantXavier^{For Christ the King}

Re: What if the Jesuits influenced Castro, Karl Marx and Joseph Stalin? I am not saying they did, but what if they did?

This is a big nothing burger as oftentimes you largely can't control who chooses to follow you or who is influenced by you. For example, if I launch a chess-related Twitter account and some neo-Nazi chooses to follow that Twitter account, does this make me a Nazi? This is a classic case of the logical fallacy guilt by association. Conservative (talk) 13:07, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Allies vow Billions to help Rebuild Ukraine at London Conference

"British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak announced a new framework for war risk insurance on June 21, aimed at helping businesses invest in Ukraine.

"This is a huge step forward towards helping insurers to underwrite investments into Ukraine, removing one of the biggest barriers and giving investors the confidence they need to act," Mr. Sunak said at the Ukraine Recovery Conference in London.

Allies vow billions in aid Ukraine’s allies pledged several billion dollars in non-military aid on Wednesday to rebuild its war-ravaged infrastructure, fight corruption and help pave the country’s road to membership in the European Union.

Stressing the vast scale of the task, diplomats and political leaders at the Ukraine Recovery Conference in London urged private-sector companies to invest and revive an economy battered by almost a year and a half of war." https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/rishi-sunak-announces-new-war-risk-insurance-framework-to-boost-ukraine-rebuild/article66993000.ece

See also: "Russia’s Biggest Problem: Ukrainians Want to Keep Fighting" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4olUtjDGyc NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 00:33, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Not gonna happen anytime soon. NATO will be de-nazified first. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:50, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

U.S. Admits Defeat In War On Russia And China

"Confronted with the realities of life the Biden administration has in the last days acknowledged defeat in two of its most egregious and delusional foreign policy games.

"The Ukrainian counter-offensive has failed. Its army is getting slaughtered on the battlefield. The 'counteroffensive' of the 'NATO trained' Ukrainian brigades has made no real progress on any front. The high level of losses of men and material make it impossible that it will ever again regain the initiative....

"The other U.S. defeat was acknowledged by U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken at the end of his trip to Bejing:

The United States will not support Taiwan breaking away from China, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken has said, amid a series of confusing statements by Joe Biden on the issue.

'We do not support Taiwan independence,' America's top diplomat said in Beijing after meeting with Chinese president Xi Jingping.[35]

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:30, June 22, 2023 (EDT)

Putin vs. Wagner

What to make of the reports that Prighozin is attempting a coup?--Geopolitician (talk) 22:35, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

It appears to be a hostile takeover of Wagner by the MOD. Prigozhin likely to be arrested. Developing. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:56, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

A successful, private armed force in a society without Second Amendment protections obviously represents a threat to the regime. That was obvious in the final days of the Battle of Bakhmut, when the MOD cut back ammo deliveries to Wagner and Prigozhin went on his rants, naming Gerasimov and Shoigu by name, blaming them for the deaths of Wagner fighters. That was about 3 weeks ago.

In response, the MOD made the decision to incorporate Wagner into the armed forces of the Russian federation, by having all members sign contracts directly with the MOD. Prigozhin has publicly resisted.

Several conspiracy theories are already afoot; according to Prigozhin himself, he was in direct contact with the Zelensky regime during the Battle of Bakhmut. If the CIA or Pentagon can send him a text message, they possibly could have offered him a deal like they did Sadam's generals, you know, a million dollars, a home in Fort Lauderdale, his kids tuition at the University of Florida paid for etc etc. Call this the AFU/SBU/CIA plot, or "blame America". RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:10, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) Another is the MOD set him up to look like a traitor when he began resisting and accusing the MOD (or Russian military industrial complex) of all sorts of corruption with the oligarchs, which sounds plausible to many Russians. Call this the "blame Russia."

From a political perspective, Prigozhin belongs to a very large domestic public opinion faction that just wants to take the gloves off and wipe Ukraine from the map. Putin and other Russian deep staters however have a wider geopolitical strategy - to draw NATO into an endless war of attrition that NATO cannot win. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:21, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

It shows the disunity in their ranks. It would also be great ingratitude on the part of the Kremlin, given Prighozin and Wagner fought for them. All these are marks of a lack of Truth and Righteousness. Sad to see. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 23:13, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

It's what can be expected in any society without a 2nd Amendment. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:29, June 23, 2023 (EDT)

The title of this thread should be Shoigu vs Wagner. We don't know where Putin stands. Last reports are Prigozhin is on the run and the federal prosecutor's office is looking into his actions. Putin probably won't protect him. Botomline is, as head of the Wagner organization, he's out. But the MOD has some concern about a few hangers-on loyal to him. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:44, June 23, 2023 (EDT) They can't kill Prigozhin - he's a national hero after the Battle of Bakhmut. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:20, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

So, what will it be? Will Prigozhin be arrested and stand trial for treason? or die in battle. My guess is he's likely to die in battle. public opinion appears to be against him. Putin walks away stronger than just his 82% approval. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:34, June 24, 2023 (EDT) Alternatively, he could end up in psyche ward suffering from PTSD. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:52, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Update: It's looking more and more like the MOD set up Prigozhin. This morning, Dima of the Military Summary reported the deployment of 1,500 Spetznaz to Rostov [36]; CD Media now reports Prigozhin and a handful of loyalists fled to Rostov (where evidently they don't know Spetznaz is waiting for them). [37] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:23, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Of course, Western media is having a field day with this. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:03, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

So, while many brainwashed Western idiots are cheering for the overthrow of Putin, that apparently would not bode well for Ukraine. And who says Russia has a controlled media or censors free speech? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:10, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

A reminder for those of you who may not know or forgot what Spetznaz is. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:29, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Who is Shoigu? Shoigu was appointed by President Yeltsin at the founding of the Russian Federation in 1991 as head of the Russian Ministry for Emergency Situations (kinda like FEMA) with a 20,000 strong armed Civil Defense force, at a time Putin was an unemployed ex-KGB foreign officer looking for work in St. Petersburg in the aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union. It would be another 10 years before Putin entered federal service. Judging by the name, it should be fairly obvious Shoigu is not an ethnic Russian name, but rather likely some Uraltic or Altaic tribal ancestry, my guess. He's probably more closely related to the Finns or Japanese, or maybe even Mongolian than he is directly to Russians.

Prigozhin I would guess is more likely closer to being of Armenian descent.

Diversity is Russia's strength. Russia is a few centuries ahead of America, in learning how to get a diverse mixture of people groups, tribes, languages, religions living on one continent under one government with a common language, system of law and governance, shared culture and history without killing each other (at least until Western psychos like Victoria Nuland or Adolf Hitler start having big plans). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 02:24, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Another theory: it's a psyop to give Putin the excuse to declare martial law and total mobilization of an army of 5 million. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:13, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Why does it look like a psyop? Cause they need to get paid sooner or later. Sure, Wagnerians get paid better than regulars, and they have enough cash to keep afloat for awhile, but after a few weeks of R&R in Rostov away from the HIMARS, they'll be ready to get back to work on August 5, as planned. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 04:14, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

(In the meantime, eat up and drink up as much Western propaganda BS to your fill, and after August 5, maybe consider, "What an idiot I am for listening to that crap and believing it.") RobS^{Give Peace a chance}

"The Lord has said, “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand” (Matthew 12:25). A great lesson to be learned in life is to live in harmony with others. Where there is disharmony, unhappiness and tragedy result." NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 08:14, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Are you referring to the J6 protests? or the 2020 Leftwing insurrection? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:21, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Yep. Looks like a psyop. [38] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:49, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Putin's speech to the nation is interesting, in that, citizens know what he's talking about - unlike Americans who wouldn't have clue with historical references. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:28, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Americans are incredibly naive about these sorts of things. For example, the Ukrainian Pravy Sektor is not an official Ukrainian government armed force, but fights alongside the AFU, coordinates with the AFU command structure, receives US funding through the government, and has made it clear that it has political objectives different from the Ukrainian government (Pravy Sektor is the paramilitary force of several recognized parties in parliament). It does not want to be part of the EU or NATO. So in the far-fetched prospect that the government of Ukraine could ever emerge victorious in this war, it would face an armed standoff with one of its allied fighting forces. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:22, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Breaking: Prigozhin to pay $600,000 compensation to family of pilot accidentally killed in mutiny. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:48, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

The issue

The issue is basically the conduct of the war. Putin and the boys in the Kremlin are fighting NATO and the collective west; but as in all large populations, you have idiots who think it's just a war between Russia and Ukraine (we have our own idiots in the United States who believe the same thing). So Putin and the boys have a go-slow strategy, so as not to commit all forces and end the war quickly, holding in reserve their capabilities to fight NATO.

Prigozhin, who is not really a military person, is a political person - and an idiot at that. He's trying to harness the public opinion of the hardliners who want to smash Ukraine to bits. Putin has to remind the country that they are not fighting just the Zelensky regime. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:11, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Update: Patrick Lancaster is on the ground. We are waiting for his report.... RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:37, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Some Tweets on Prighozin: "Interesting. In his latest audio message, Prigozhin casually says “When we worked in Africa and Ukraine, when we messed up in America, they were fine with us paying cash…”. I wonder what he means by “messing up in America” & whom he paid cash there. #RussianCoup" https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1672585952919793667

Comment: I think it is supposed to be "messing up America", not messing up in America. Remains to be seen. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 10:57, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

US v. Concord Management. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 11:35, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Russian nuclear doctrine

At this moment there is one fact about Russian nuclear doctrine that US media has kept hidden from the American public since the Cuban Missile Crisis and before. American media and propaganda has always maintained the fiction that Russia's nuclear doctrine parallels American nuclear doctrine, i.e., that only the Commander-in-Chief can order a nuclear strike. That was never the case in the Soviet Union, and is not the case in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Putin is not the man with his finger on the button.

The local battlefield commander who is given a tactical nuclear weapon has sole discretion to use it if he feels an imminent threat to the lives and wellbeing of himself and his troops, or their imminent defeat on the battlefield. This is why it is impossible to defeat Russia on the battlefield. It is no secret that Russians have deployed nuclear weapons to Belarus in recent weeks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 12:03, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

4000 Russian Artillery Systems Destroyed

"We know you are all preoccupied with watching updates from russia. However, let’s not forget that there is some good news from Ukraine today as well." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1672633603891646464/photo/1 https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1672633603891646464 NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 12:09, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Ukraine Counter Offensive making Progress: "Ukraine’s сounter-offensive is progressing, Army Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville said Friday, citing a briefing to European army chiefs from Ukrainian army Chief of Staff Ihor Palagnyuk.

“His message was they're making progress," McConville said. “They're confident in their training, they’re confident in their soldiers, and they're confident in the progress they're making." https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023/06/ukraine-counter-offensive-making-progress-us-army-chief-says/387865/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 12:11, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Even if true (it isn't), it wouldn't make a difference. The issue would be who can replace destroyed units faster. And we all know NATO/Ukraine does not have the artillery pieces, ammunition, nor airforce to do anything.

Sure, you can say 4,000 Soviet artillery pieces were destroyed when you count Ukraine.

The problem here is, the propaganda BS you post doesn't pass the smell test. If NATO/Ukraine could inflict such daamage, how come Ukrainian casualties and deaths on the battlefield are mounting? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 12:38, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Prez. Zelensky responds to Russia's Chaos with Putin and Prighozin

"Today, the world saw that the bosses of Russia do not control anything. Nothing at all. Complete chaos. Complete absence of any predictability.

First, the world should not be afraid. We know what protects us. Our unity.

Ukraine will definitely be able to protect Europe from any Russian forces, and it doesn't matter who commands them. We will protect. The security of Europe's eastern flank depends only on our defense.

Ukrainian soldiers, Ukrainian guns, Ukrainian tanks, Ukrainian missiles are all that protect Europe from such marches as we see today on Russian territory. And when we ask to give us the F-16 fighters or the ATACMS, we're enhancing our common defense. Real defense.

Second, everything must be real. It's time for everyone in the world to frankly say that all of Russia's criminal actions against Ukraine were and are unprovoked. And we all have to focus exclusively on our common security priorities. NATO is not just a word or a set of formal promises. These are reliable guarantees for everyone that peace won't be destroyed. Without Ukraine, such guarantees are worthless. Already in July at the summit in Vilnius, it is a historic chance for real decisions without looking back at Russia. Any nation that borders Russia supports this.

What will we, Ukrainians, do?

We will defend our country. We will defend our freedom. We will not be silent and we will not be inactive. We know how to win – and it will happen. Our victory in this war.

And what will you, Russians, do?

The longer your troops stay on Ukrainian land, the more devastation they will bring to Russia. The longer this person is in the Kremlin, the more disasters there will be." https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1672662657881571332 NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 21:00, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Defense Minister of Ukraine Oleksii Reznikov: "Brilliant example of @RobertaMetsola @EP_President combating hypocrisy and “appeasement” with honesty and truth. Dear Madam President, thank you for your commitment to and support of Ukraine and of democracy. We believe in the EU. We value your trust in us and in our fight for freedom. We will win together. 🇺🇦🤝🇪🇺" https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1670894459616149504 [Video in the link] NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 21:05, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

Former U.S. Green Beret whou fought in Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine. Ukraine is this Generation's "Most Righteous War"

"A Former U.S. Green Beret Fought In Iraq, Afghanistan, And Ukraine. He Says Ukraine Is His Generation's 'Most Righteous War.' David Bramlette is a former U.S. Army Ranger and Green Beret who commanded a team in Ukraine's Foreign Legion for 10 months last year. He currently works for the Romulus T. Weatherman Foundation, an NGO that leads operations in Ukraine to identify, recover, and repatriate Americans killed in action.

In an interview from Kyiv recently with RFE/RL Georgian Service's Vazha Tavberidze, Bramlette said the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a classic case of "good versus evil," gives high marks to the Ukrainian military but isn't impressed with their Russian counterparts, and chides the West for overrating Russian forces. Bramlette also likes the chances of the Ukrainian military as it is now beginning a long-anticipated counteroffensive, explaining that Ukraine's fighting capabilities are on an upward trajectory while Russia's military is heading in the opposite direction.

RFE/RL: As an Army Ranger, you fought in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Apparently, that wasn't enough. You came back to fight more, to fight for Ukraine. Why do you think this war is your war?

David Bramlette: First off, I think this is probably the most righteous war that my generation will see. In my mind, this is good versus evil. I was sitting in grad school at Johns Hopkins [University] in my last semester, and we were talking about whether Russia would invade conventionally. And, I'll be honest, I didn't think they're going to do it. I didn't think they could be that dumb, honestly, and they did. I served in Ranger Regiment and Special Forces Group and, you know, 10th Special Forces Group and special forces more generally, our motto is De Oppreso Liber, which stands for: to free the oppressed." https://www.rferl.org/a/former-us-green-beret-iraq-afghanistan-ukraine-/32469454.html NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 19:05, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

SLOW-MO VERSION OF BRITISH MERCENARIES GETTING BLOWN AWAY BY A MINE IN ZAPOROZHYE. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:32, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Ukraine Counter Offensive Updates

"KYIV (Reuters) - Ukraine's armed forces have halted a Russian offensive towards the cities of Kupiansk and Lyman in the east of the country, and are advancing in the south, a senior Ukrainian defence official said on Friday."

From: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-06-23/ukraine-says-it-advances-in-south-stops-russian-attack-in-east NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 05:25, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Reuters again, huh? Halted the offensive with paintball guns again? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 05:47, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Speaking of Kupyansk, glad you brought this to our attention, aka 'waiting for the other shoe to drop'. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:29, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Military Summary channel: The Battle Of Kupyansk. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:23, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Infographics Show: How Russia is Regressing back to the Soviet Era

Infograhics Show is an extremely informative You Tube Channel that makes nice videos

Watch this video: How Russia is Slipping Back Into the Soviet Era. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 07:09, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

More problematic indications of the same:

"More than 1,000 people attended a ceremony on Red Square on Sunday to mark the 70th anniversary of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's death.

Led by Russia's Communist Party, the event drew people waving Soviet flags or holding portraits of Stalin at the site on the Kremlin wall where he is buried.

Stalin's image has been gradually restored in Russia in recent decades despite the atrocities carried out under his rule — and his legacy looms over Russia's present-day offensive on Ukraine." https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/03/06/russian-communists-mark-70-year-anniversary-of-stalins-death-a80399

"A record 70 percent of Russians approve of Soviet leader Josef Stalin’s role in Russian history, according to a poll published by the independent Levada Center pollster on Tuesday.

Stalin’s image has been gradually rehabilitated in the 2000s from that of a bloody autocrat to an “outstanding leader.” President Vladimir Putin has revived the Soviet anthem, Soviet-style military parades and a Soviet-era medal for labor during his presidency."

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/16/stalins-approval-rating-among-russians-hits-record-high-poll-a65245

Putin's 20 odd years in absolute power in the Kremlin have been very bad for Russia on the whole. Russia needs a new leader. Prayers. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 07:23, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

You are being redundant. You posted up the garbage about 70 percent from the CIA funded Moscow Times on this page before. We don't need it again. You basically insult people as if they are stupid by repeating the same crap over and over again - especially when it can be deemed as having xenophobic or Russophobic intent (which is to be expected from the CIA). Thanks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 07:28, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Putin hasn't had 20 years of absolute power. First of all, he had to build the power that he has now by removing opposing media, taking out rivals, etc over time. Also, this recent mutiny shows that he still does not have absolute power. Putin's power isn't equivalent to the power that North Korea's leader has. Why doesn't Putin have as much internal power within his country as the leader of North Korea? Due to Russia being a culture that is both Eastern-Western (Eastern culture is more autocratic than Western culture), Russia has been influenced by the West so it is harder to establish a more absolutist type of power. Conservative (talk) 07:32, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Well spoken. I see you've done some study. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 07:43, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Thanks. Due to the East being more autocratic, I think it will take China's underlying weaknesses (graying and shrinking population, worsening economy, bad effects of Xi having too much power) to become worse before the Chinese Communist Party is thrown out of power. Conservative (talk) 07:49, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) There will be an Approval poll out within the next 30 days. From that we gage the percentage of hardliners who support Prigozhin's anti-corruption campaign, and patriots who support Putin's moderate approach to Ukraine. Putin peaked at 83% some months ago, and his latest was 80% (with Biden polling 37% in the same timeframe). He won his last election with 63%, so obviously there is support from his political opposition for his foreign policy.

I would take issue with the claim of "removing opposing media" {as Zelensky has done). Reporting on the Wagner mutiny was not censored. In fact, unlike the United States and the supposed "democratic" West, Russians have access to CNN and all the Western BS media, as well. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 07:55, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

The only "opposing media" removed is Soros/CIA funded media interfering in Russia's domestic internal affairs. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 07:57, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

That's why the CIA-funded Moscow Times is headquartered in Belgium. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 07:59, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Now, let's look at the Moscow Times Russophobic hate speech reporting for a minute: 1,000 people in city of 5 million is a smaller percentage than the percentage of seats held by the Communist party in the state Duma, or people who identify as affiliated with the Communist party in opinion polls. That's quite a stretch to create a news article for the purpose of slandering Russia and Putin. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:04, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Recall my rant about the amateurishness of the CIA: How come with a single click any idiot can see the Moscow Times comes from EU & NATO headquarters and not Moscow? Secondly, despite an 80% approval rating, how come Putin can only muster 1,000 communists to worship Stalin if Putin is indeed a communist? The CIA amateurs and idiots who write that stuff really do assume that you yourself are an idiot. And if you take it seriously, you really are. RobS^{Give Peace a chance}

RobS, wrote above: "Russians have access to CNN and all the Western BS media".

First of all and this is a key point: "Only 10% of people can speak English in Russia."[39]

Also, "In his campaign to control what ordinary Russians can learn about the war in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin has made a notable exception. He has blocked or restricted Facebook, Twitter, and most other Western-based social media sites, but one major platform — YouTube — remains available."[40]

Furthermore:

"After Moscow erected a digital barricade in March, blocking access to independent news sites and social media platforms to hide information about its unfolding invasion of Ukraine, many Russians looked for a workaround. One reliable route they found came from a small Swiss company based nearly 2,000 miles away.

The company, Proton, provides free software that masks a person’s identity and location online. That gives a user in Russia access to the open web by making it appear that the person is logging in from the Netherlands, Japan or the United States. A couple of weeks after the internet blockade, about 850,000 people inside Russia used Proton each day, up from fewer than 25,000.

That is, until the end of March, when the Russian government found a way to block Proton, too.

Targeting Proton was the opening salvo of a continuing back-and-forth battle, pitting a team of about 25 engineers against a country embarking on one of the most aggressive censorship campaigns in recent memory."[41]

So by Putin aggressively going after opposing media which speaks Russian within his country, it has a big effect. And then he further tightens things by having some restrictions on the internet as far as foreign influence. Conservative (talk) 08:30, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Ahhh, Twitter Files, CIA Vault 7, the Snowden revelations (not to mention the human rights violations and prosecution of Julian Assange and WikiLeaks) document Twitter and Facebook in bed with NSA, FBI, CIA, and US intelligence community (not unlike US charges against TikTok and data mining). Heck, if I were president, I'd probably ban Twitter & Facebook in the US for election interference and destroying American democracy. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:38, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

A side note: Because Russian cat videos are no doubt very popular in Russia, Putin found it too unpopular to block YouTube in Russia. I hope this clarifies things. Conservative (talk) 08:40, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

US global media is available in all kinds of languages. And no, the Russians are not that stupid that they can't translate CNN from whatever language it broadcasts in. RT is blocked in the US, RL/RFE is available in Russia.

The simple fact is, Russia has more open access to global media than the US, EU, or China. (By global media, I am referring to global news sources, and not necessarily social media). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:45, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

I just went to the Russia Today website https://www.rt.com/ yesterday. It is not blocked in the USA despite it being Russian state media. Sputnik news, another Russian state media outlet, is also not blocked in the USA. Conservative (talk) 08:49, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

It's blocked on Youtube and Facebook. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:51, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

IMO, the average Russian drunk high school drop out is more sophisticated at sorting through the BS and propaganda of global news media than the average Western college graduate. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:51, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

In Russia, sorting through BS propaganda is in the genes after 70 years of Soviet communism and propaganda - something only now Americans are being subjected to and exposed daily 100 years after the creation of the Soviet Union. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:55, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

All governments with any degree of sophistication use manufactured consent in order to maintain power (education system, government influencing media, governments influencing corporations and corporate influence via PR/lobbyists, etc.). It's just a matter of degree on how much manufacturing is done in order for the more elite of society to gain additional power. Conservative (talk) 08:57, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) As a student of history and historiography, the 70 year captivity of the USSR presents a unique problem: it is a giant blackhole for using the ordinary techniques historical researchers use. So the Russian educational system, beginning in the elementary grades, has to deal with this problem, knowing things like official Soviet encyclopedias and government documents are unreliable. For a historically-minded society, children must be taught skills to learn how to decipher truth, and facts, and history.

The West doesn't even teach history. It teaches the Nazis are democratic freedom fighters. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:07, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Let me relate an interesting story: Russia sanctions have banned Hollywood movies from Russian cinemas. So this has led to a rebirth of interest in Soviet films. When you go the cinema now, it's not just for entertainment. You are doing historical research on the Soviet film industry. Being aware of the Soviet Union's dark past, and the fact that these films were made the last time the West imposed sanctions for 50 years during the Cold War, leads to a whole new understanding of Russian and Soviet history, and art, and film making. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:25, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

There are many indications Russia, under Putin, is regressing back to the Communist or Soviet era, and I just posted some of them. Hero-worshipping Commie Thug Stalin is just one example that exemplifies that. The fact, however, that some Russians in the recent Prighozin incident, celebrated and shook hands with the Wagner mercenaries, and were in a celebratory mood, when he was challenging Putin, suggests many Russians - perhaps the relatives or friends of those Thug Putin has thrown in jail for criticizing his "Special Military Operation", or called it a War - are tired of the Putin regime and would be happy to see it go. Russia deserves a free and post-Putin future. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 14:41, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

You just posted a bunch of US intelligence propaganda and crap - you know, the same guys who whacked JFK, disrupted the Trump administration, overthrew Ukrainian democracy, and interfered in US elections and lied about it. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:00, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

60 Minutes Australia: The Women standing up to Vladimir Putin: https://youtu.be/HzjLy-lAIxE NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 14:47, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

NishantXavier, the people who cheered Prighozin were probably in favor of Russia's February 2022 invasion of Ukraine and were happy that Prighozin was often more effective than the Russian army. They also thought his complaints about pro-Russia soldiers not being adequately equipped was a justifiable complaint. In other words, I think you are projecting your thoughts/feelings onto most Russians. The majority of Russia appears to still be pro-Putin. Pro-Putin media, Russian government outreaches to the youth (education, youth groups, etc.), political rallies, etc. contribute to pro-Putin sentiments and Russian nationalism. Conservative (talk) 15:01, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

The Wagner mutiny is a case study. It's origins were more than a month ago. When it occurred, Prigozhin himself said it was protest against Shoigu & Gerasimov - the equivalents of Lloyd Austin and Mark Milley, and not Putin himself. His "March for Justice" was not against Putin, but rather the corrupt Russian military industrial complex. Just go back now and examine the reporting from any and all news sources prior to Putin getting involved by making a nationwide speech. You should now be able to make a determination which news sources are either ignorant about Russia and Russia's domestic politics, or deliberately malicious toward Vladimir Putin and lying to you with propaganda. Any source that headlined words to the effect of "Coup against Putin" fits one of those two categories. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:11, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

It was February 2022 invasion, not 2020. Well, possibly, I suppose; but they were cheering on Prighozin at precisely the time when he was opposing Putin. Usually, you can't oppose Putin in any serious way in Russia, as that 60 Minutes Australia interview shows, without being jailed, or thrown out of windows, or poisoned, or something. I think we're yet to see what would happen if serious opponents to Putin had freedom to campaign for a better Post-Putin Russian Future. 15:13, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Prigozhin was NOT opposing Putin! You are brainwashed! RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:19, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Thanks. Fixed typo for date of invasion to February 2022. Conservative (talk) 16:21, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) At a deeper level, the mutiny also disproves the idea that Putin is an absolute dictator. Prigozhin thought (and still believes, along with a sizeable slice of Russian society) that corruption in the Russian government can be rooted out without removing Putin, i.e. that Putin is not the cause, and that Putin doesn't have the power to do it himself. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:17, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Keep telling yourself that, bro. It must be pleasant to live in la-la-land. Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth, Prighozin said this about Putin and the corruption, deceit and hypocrisy of the Putin Administration.

"Wagner leader hits back at Putin Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has responded to President Vladimir Putin’s “betrayal” comments, suggesting in fact that the mercenary group’s soldiers are Russian “patriots.”

“The president makes a deep mistake when he talks about treason,” Prigozhin said in an audio message.

Prigozhin also said that Wagner forces would not be “turning themselves in and confess at the order of the president, the FSB (security service) or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to continue to live any longer in corruption, deceit and bureaucracy.”

Earlier on Saturday, Putin said Wagner fighters were traitors who must be punished." https://thewire.in/world/wagner-group-mutiny-russia-putin Prighozin negotiated hard and tough and got amnesty for himself and his men after criticizing Putin. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 15:29, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Another Infographics Video: "Every battle fought, every road and building bombed, every bullet fired, every intercepted missile; every bit of ground a tank trudges over; this is all extremely costly. And for every person killed in action, there is a huge price to be paid, not just for their family but also for their country. As we’ll show you many times in this video, working out the monetary cost of war is far from simple. It’s very hard to know exactly how many rockets are fired, how much hardware is destroyed, and what it costs a nation when you lose infrastructure and young men that should have been working in your economy. But today, we’ll try to put a price tag on this war, not just for the past and present, but the costs in the years to come. The ripple effects of this war will be felt for decades, especially in the poorest segments of both Russia and Ukraine. We’re going to start with the cost of war for Russia and finish with some quite shocking data regarding what this war has cost and will cost Ukraine." https://youtu.be/spu_H27iQqs NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 15:33, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Bingo. Now you are displaying your lack of reading comprehension skills. Prigozhin did not initiate a coup against Putin; when Putin got involved and went on national TV, only THEN did Prigozhin start trash talking Putin (after months of publicly trash talking the military industrial complex) and immediately backed down and accepted a comprise offer. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:35, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Prigozhin believed he could initiate a popular uprising against Shoigu and Gerasimov, get them removed, and possibly get Putin to appoint himself as Defense Minister. This should give insight in the Russian political system and society. Anything that doesn't make this clear is BS propaganda (either uninformed, or malicious).

The latest reports are Prigozhin was successful - that Shoigu and Gerasimov were indeed sacked. But we have to wait for confirmation, which may take months. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:38, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

The Russian and American military industrial complexes have been at war with each other since the late 1940s. Both have become wasteful and corrupt. When the political situation changed in 1991, that war did not end. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:48, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Other than drastically cutting back USA's funding to the Ukrainians as I believe that Europe should be the primary funder and provider of manpower because it is in their backyard, I cannot say that I am pro-Ukraine or pro-Russia because both countries are authoritarian and corrupt (But that is a moot point because much of Europe has lukewarm support for Ukraine compared to the USA). Also, I believe the Ukrainians are hopelessly outmatched when it comes to their vain attempts to gain back a substantial amount territory back because they are outmanned and face strongly defended Russian positions (Mines, barbed wire, defense in depth trenches, intersecting machine gun fire nests, fortified defensive command centers, a lot of heavy artillery, etc.). So prolonging the war, cost a lot of unnecessary bloodshed on both sides and adversely affected the world's food supplies as Ukraine has a lot of good farmland. In addition, the sanctions hurt the West and reduced Russian profit margins on natural gas so both sides were hurt. Furthermore, Ukraine was wrecked. A peace agreement should have been hammered out and finalized early in the war, but it appears as if Boris Johnson helped nix this effort. Conservative (talk) 16:42, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Why is it you openly criticize Vladimir Putin but remain silent on the neo-Nazi Zelensky regime? [42] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:28, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

With that being said, although the Infographics YouTube channel may say some correct things about Ukraine/Russia, it is a Ukraine cheerleading YouTube channel and is very biased. Conservative (talk) 16:30, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

HAHA! "Russia is now cut off from the world economy which means the specter of food shortages now looms ahead."

OMG, how can you guys be so dumb? China, the world's largest economy, India, and the Global South are not part of the "world economy"? Russia, the world's largest food and fertilizer producer, with more food than people it can feed, faces the spectre of food shortages? I stopped watching there.

You guys, I can only supply you with facts about this war and Russia; I can't (or more accurately, don't have the time to) teach you how to think. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:06, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

For example. Cons: No, it is not (just) "Ukraine cheerleading"; it is programmed globalist propaganda (aimed at school kids). Call it what it is, rather than blathering about nothing to no effect. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:09, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Digression on regulatory capture

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. explains "regulatory capture", i.e. when a private sector industry "captures" a government regulatory agency that is intended to regulate that industry.

Big Pharma, for example has "captured" the Food and Drug Administration that then gives rubber stamp approval to new drugs for Big Pharma profit, and not for the health and safety of the American people.

Big Tech regulatory capture of the FCC, which then grants immunity to broadcasters and IT hosting facilities while driving their competitors out of business (also known as crony capitalism).

The military industrial complex has captured the CIA, which then makes "threat assessment" recommendations to Congress for defense contractor appropriations and spending. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:58, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Putin and Prighozin are both Thugs. I support neither. I support Ukraine's Self-Defense, and believe they will ultimately win. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:31, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Well I can play that stupid game too and say Biden, Austin and Milley are Thugs. You need some Drano or whatever it takes to clean out all the BS propaganda you've filled your head with over the past 16 months or since the 2014 Maidan coup. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:51, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

A word on propaganda

Western propaganda now would have us believe that the guy whose organization, the Wagner group, that just killed 40,000 Ukrainian troops in the Bakhmut meatgrinder, a guy viewed in Russia as a war hero, a guy who served on the front line and trash talked the Russian military industrial complex for NOT supplying him with enough weapons to kill Ukrainians fast enough to maintain a 10:1 kill ratio, now in the past 72 hours has become an anti-Putin peacenik. A guy Putin spared and exiled who could have been shot for treason. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:12, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

"In the end, the Wagner mutiny lasted less than 24 hours. But the toxic cocktail of jealousy, rivalry and ambition that gave rise to it has been months, if not years, in the making.

The main characters of this drama were Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder and leader of the Wagner paramilitary group, and the heads of Russia's enormous military - Sergei Shoigu and Valery Gerasimov.

Prigozhin - a former criminal who was associated with organised crime in the 1980s and for which he spent several years in prison - is a creation of the Kremlin who owes his enormous wealth to President Vladimir Putin.

Since he formed the Wagner mercenary group in 2014, he has become a key tool of Mr Putin's desire to reimpose Russian influence across the globe. From the shadows, his forces - made up of hardened former Russian special forces - have propped up Mr Putin's ally Bashar Al-Assad in Syria and helped roll back and replace French influence in Mali.

Until last year Prigozhin consistently denied mounting evidence that he controlled the group, launching lawsuits in British courts against Bellingcat journalist Elliot Higgins who accused him of running the private militia." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66013532 NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:30, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Congrats. You posted mostly true information. Let's dig deeper: "a former criminal who was associated with organised crime in the 1980s and for which he spent several years in prison", i.e. a Soviet gulag; do you maintain that Prigozhin and Putin want to bring back communism and the Soviet Union? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:39, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Bellingcat is a Western intelligence front. We can address more of that later (I'll get Jimmy Dore's link).

Prigozhin is probably not the "founder" of Wagner, but he is its CEO now. Dmitry Utkin is usually cited as the founder by knowledgeable sources. In recent days, Utkin has been referred to as Prigozhin's deputy, the guy Prigozhin sent to lead the column to Moscow. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:44, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

More on propaganda

Let's pick apart the BBC wording used here: "a former criminal who was associated with organised crime in the 1980s and for which he spent several years in prison".

What is the implication? That the Soviet communist regime upheld justice and protected the people from criminals? or that Prigozhin was convicted of capitalist profiteering and/or not sharing a split of the profits from criminal activity with the corrupt KGB?

How do we know that Prigozhin wasn't a political prisoner of the communist regime, and calling him a "criminal" now isn't just leftwing media bias (i.e. communist propaganda) by the BBC? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:09, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

So the big question here is, Why does the BBC defend or promote Soviet communism? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:15, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

"Over half a century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of older people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: ‘Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.’

Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: ‘Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.’" https://www.templetonprize.org/laureate-sub/solzhenitsyn-acceptance-speech/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:23, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

I don't understand the main thrust of your argument. Are you saying the Russian people were better off under Communism than under thugs and criminals like Putin and Prigozhin? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:25, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

I mean, at least the communist government locked up people like Prigozhin, according to your BBC source. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:30, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

No, I'm saying (1) Communism/Stalinism was one of the Greatest Scourges ever to afflict Humanity (2) Any regression back to that Communist/Soviet Era must be seen as deeply concerning. Russians should read the Bible more, attend Church more, and practice keeping the Commandments of God, especially that of Love your neighbor as yourself, and Do to others as you would have them do unto you, to grow in Faith and Holiness. See this: "Across all three waves of ISSP data, no more than about one-in-ten Russians said they attend religious services at least once a month. The share of regular attenders (monthly or more often) was 2% in 1991, 9% in 1998 and 7% in 2008." (Pew Research). There have been some positive trends, of a return to Christianity from Communism, but much more is needed; Church Attendance remains low, Putin and some Kremlinistas continue to sell something called "Christian Communism", not realizing there is no such thing; that Communism was one of the greatest enemies Christendom ever had; that Mass Murdering Thug Stalin is not worthy of Hero-Veneration etc. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:46, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

"Wagner chief 'humiliated' Putin, Ukraine says Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said the Wagner mercenary group had "almost nullified" Russian President Vladimir Putin. Wagner fighters are said to have left Rostov-on-Don." https://www.dw.com/en/wagner-chief-humiliated-putin-ukraine-says/a-66022584 NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:59, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Podolyak is a Nazi. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:21, June 25, 2023 (EDT)

Infographics Show: Top General Reveals why Russia failed at Bakhmut

Gen. Mark Milley

"It's the bloodiest battle of the entire Ukraine war, with some estimating that this one battle alone has cost Russia 100,000 casualties since it began ten months ago. The strategically insigificant town of Bakhmut has now turned into what could be a turning point in Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has explained how Russia is failing in Bakhmut. Check out today's epic video that takes a deeper look inside the Russian military and how things are falling apart at the seams for Putin." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31cnwuLDnTw NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:23, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Nazi propaganda. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:30, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

See this here. This means I'm a Conservapedia Administrator. If you want to keep posting Nazi propaganda to talk pages, you need to begin sanitizing it in your own words, and stop cutting and pasting it out verbatim. Thank you. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:35, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Mick Ryan assesses Ukraine Counter Offensive

“The best case would see all of Ukraine liberated this year,” says the retired major-general. “The most likely is that large parts of the east and south of the country are liberated, placing Ukraine in a good strategic position to regain Crimea”" https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2023/06/08/mick-ryan-assesses-ukraines-counter-offensive/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 18:04, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

The Economist: globalist neo-fascist propaganda. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:08, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Italian FM: Welcoming Ukraine into NATO and maintaining an United Front

From decode 39. Am on my phone and will give the link subsequently:

"Welcoming Ukraine into NATO… FM Tajani approached the issue by stating that the time for Kyiv’s entry in the Alliance hasn’t come yet, as peace must be reached first. However, “we can make the first steps towards [its] adhesion.” A good place to start is the Atlantic Alliance’s summit in Vilnius, in July, by creating a NATO-Ukraine Council – “which Italy supports with conviction.”

… and maintaining a united front. “I’d like this to be clear: we’re not at war with Russia. We defend Ukraine’s independence, we don’t act to intervene in Russia,” went on Mr Tajani. He also noted that there’s an “element of worry” with regards to the risk of nuclear escalation, but voiced his hope that Moscow may “understand it’s time to recall its army” and reach a cease-fire." NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 14:02, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

https://decode39.com/7146/italian-fm-nato-ukraine-council-vilnius/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 14:57, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Fascist propaganda. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 15:22, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Communists have always called NATO "fascist" when it's anything but. NATO is a Defensive Alliance. Ukraine has a right to its Self-Defense, ergo it has a right to join NATO if it wants to and if both parties are willing. Sweden will most likely join NATO at Vilnius, Ukraine's roadmap to full NATO inclusion in a year or so will likely be sketched out at the same time. Ideally, Russia herself would undergo a democratic transition and join NATO in 5 to 7 years. Right now, it's not yet ready for that. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 15:45, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

NATO invaded Libya, what the UN calls a "war of aggression". For those of you not in the know, (a) Libya is not the Soviet Union; (b) the Soviet Union ceased to exist in 1991; (c) NATO was formed to protect the "European homeland" from Soviet expansionism; (d) Libya is in Africa; (e) Africa is not Europe. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:27, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Why did the UN authorize this? "Security Council Approves ‘No-Fly Zone’ over Libya, Authorizing ‘All Necessary Measures’ to Protect Civilians, by Vote of 10 in Favour with 5 Abstentions 17 March 2011" https://press.un.org/en/2011/sc10200.doc.htm NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:43, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

NATO violated the Resolution, smuggled weapons in, and intervened in the conflict. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:46, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

It's all well documented in our article on the Libyan war, and elsewhere in Conservapedia.

Furthermore, the term "United Front" is a Marxist-Leninist term invented by Lenin. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:48, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Biden regime DHS "Pyramid of Far-right Radicalization". The Nazi Wolfsengel of the Azov Regiment and other Nazi insignia such as the Black Sun, which the Biden regime supported with Ukraine aid, appears at the top of the pyramid. [5]

"Video summary from CBN News: Prighozin (1) has lifted the veil on Russian Propaganda (2) telling the Russian people they've been lied to and (3) Ukraine is not filled with Nazis, as Putin alleged." (2nd-3rd min) Watch for yourself here https://youtu.be/IaPqhWpWw4E NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:51, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

That's interesting, however a discussion about CBN belongs either on the CBN talk page or the propaganda talk page, or elsewhere. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:56, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

CBN has problems of its own that must be addressed before anyone takes serious CBN support for Nazism and extremist ideology, as the Biden DHS alleges. I assure you, Conservapedia does not support the Biden Homeland Security nor CBN's views on Nazism. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:02, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

The video you posted from CBN corroborates the Biden junta's allegation that CBN is an entry point to violent right-wing extremism. That video does not belong on the talk page for CP MPR headlines. Period. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:15, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

I'm not an expert on the Libyan War, which I think someone other than Obama might have handled differently. So I'll defer to those who are. But on the whole, in its 75 year history, while not perfect, NATO has done its main job of preserving peace in Europe. You already know my thoughts on it; that it should become a truly inter-national alliance, including and welcome Asian Countries and those from the Global South, that are Democratic and Peace-Loving. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:53, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) Your posting the term "United Front" in a subheading on this talk page displays you own susceptibility to Marxist brainwashing and propaganda. Thanks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 16:53, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

The Italian Minister spoke those words. I just reported on it. And even if Marxists used it in a wrong sense, conservatives can use it in a right sense. Here, the words just mean NATO or Trans-Atlantic Unity, which will be broken, like the infighting between Prighozin and Shoigu. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 17:00, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Bingo. You should have enough spiritual discernment to recognize it as Marxist propaganda before headlining it here. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:04, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

As to the neo-nazi garbage you posted above quoting Mark Milley, you could begin researching Milley here from Flag and Cross: https://flagandcross.com/joint-chiefs-chairman-general-mark-milley-disgraced-his-uniform/ RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:08, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Left: Original SS logo from World War II. Right: Modified SS logo used by Ukrainian Nazis on YouTube during the Russo-Ukrainian war.

There certainly does appear to be an uptick in hysterical drama queens calling other people Nazis. But I am not seeing an uptick of people wearing swastikas. It's too bad more people aren't honest, cordial and rational. Conservative (talk) 17:46, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

It's almost comical the way some of these people accuse those who disagree with them of being "Nazis". Nazi has a specific meaning: if you support a Holocaust of Jews, you're a Nazi. If you don't, you're not. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 18:04, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

What's so funny about US aid to Ukrainian Nazis and the proud nazi supporters with blue and yellow emojis? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:10, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Here's the facts: Mark Milley called 73 million Trump supporters "Nazis" while he himself is a both a Nazi supporter and Nazi propagandist. I don't even understand why we have to debate this on MPR. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:20, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

User: NishantXavier, I agree with you about how clownish the comical behavior of falsely calling other people Nazis is and how irrational and ahistorical it is. The Conservapedia Guidelines state about civility: "You must be civil. No bullying... Conservapedia Administrators as well need to interact with others according to the same standards of civility we ask of editors." Conservative (talk) 18:38, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Distraught family of Biden murder victims. [6]

Bottomline: We're not going to use any proven neo-Nazi or neo-Nazi propaganda source as a source for valid information. The sooner you two guys learn how to properly qualify sources and information, the better. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:37, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Mark Milley, based upon his widely publicized comments about Donald Trump and Trump supporters, and sworn Congressional testimony, and his leadership actions and ability to make military assessments during and after the withdrawal from Afghanistan should be evidence enough that he is not a qualified source regarding anything related to the NATO war in Ukraine, Russia, or Vladimir Putin. Why do we even need to have this discussion?

Questions about CBN should be on the Department of Homeland Security talk page or CBN article page, or the propaganda, fake news, or psyops pages. Or maybe even the Breitbart page. They do not belong here. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:44, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) Mark Milley is a killer of civilians and children. You cannot even argue that he accidentally killed that family of 10, including children, to protect American civilians and soldiers - because he did not. Neither did he ever even have the intention to protect American civilians and soldiers leaving Afghanistan. And he still holds his job and no one was held to account. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:55, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

The idea that Milley is an American and therefore he is one of the "good guys" is racist; and the idea that he's the best guy we got to head the JCS and that's why he hasn't been fired for murderous incompetence is even more frightening. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 19:58, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Advice to Nishant: Stop grabbing whatever propaganda headline, wording, or phrasing catches your eye, and begin studying a little closer the sources of that information. Thanks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:07, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Russophobia again - for the umpteenth time. Sad!

RobS, "proven neo-Nazi or neo-Nazi propaganda source"? I noticed recently that when I broached the subject of a remarkable absence of a huge increase of Americans donning swastikas and giving each other Nazi salutes that RobS desperately wanted to change the subject.

It's so sad that RobS suffers from cognitive dissonance when various pieces of evidence are brought up about the future decline of Russia. He's reduced to falsely accusing others of being Nazis. I am all for having a certain amount of fondness for one's ethnic/cultural heritage, but RobS' is allowing his pride about his Slavic heritage reduce him to being a Russia cheerleader. The great Russian writer Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn took a more noble path. When appropriate, he offered various criticisms of Russia/Russians. Conservative (talk) 20:03, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

You ever read Solzhenitsyn? I think I know the answer: No.

I am not Russian. Much of what I learned about Russia I have learned by reading Solzhenitsyn over the past 40 years. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:15, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

LALALA! I can't hear you!

My very first experience with wikis was when I tried to cite Solzhenitsyn's comments about Bertrand Russell in Wikipedia. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:18, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

What America needs is our own American Solzhenitsyn - someone willing to tell the truth about our corrupt government and society - and our lying government officials and controlled media and propaganda apparatuses that brainwash people. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:23, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

I can always tell when RobS is badly losing a debate. He frantically tries to game the titles of threads. "Russophobia"! he cries. So pathetic.

RobS wrote to me: "You ever read The Gulag Archipelago? I think I know the answer: No." RobS, you thinking you know answers is not the same as you knowing answers. A former housemate of mine allowed me to read his copy of Solzhenitsyn's excellent book The Gulag Archipelago.

RobS, I have nothing further to say about this matter. But remember this discussion when you see Russia decline in the next 10-15 years. Conservative (talk) 20:37, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

I said that based on my experiences with you regarding Samuel Huntington and The Clash of Civilizations, cause I know for a fact you never read it. I doubt you even read the abridged version in Foreign Affairs. IOWS, what you know about Huntington or Solzhenitsyn is hearsay evidence. Same as with Vladimir Putin. You only know what somebody told you second and third hand about these characters. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:44, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) You might as well skip reading the bible and tell us what the Church of Scientology says about the Gospel of John for the public record you have created with your research techniques. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:59, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

RobS, I still remember the various brutal torture methods used in Soviet gulags that Solzhenitsyn describes in his book The Gulag Archipelago. Deny that Russians having been torturing Ukrainians in the war in Ukraine and lose all credibility. Conservative (talk) 20:59, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Oh really? Describe right here and now one such torture method. The clock is running. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:02, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

What is Katorga? How was a czarist minister sentenced to katorga?

Did Solzhenitsyn write the chapter in Vol 3, 40 Days at Kengir? How did it end?

C'mon. None of these questions should be too difficult to answer "from memory." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:06, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Bzzzzt. Times up. More than 10 minutes have gone by. No fair cheating by looking up the answers on the internet. You should know off the top of your head "from memory." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:13, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

On page 127 of Solzhenitsyn's book The Gulag Archipelago, I found the excerpt which described one of the more brutal torture methods that I remember:

"So now we will try the club. Prisoners can't take more than two or three sessions of this. Let down your trousers and lie down on the runner." The colonel sat down on the prisoner's back. A.D. was going to count the blows. He didn't yet know about a blow from a rubber truncheon on the sciatic nerve when the buttocks have disappeared as a consequence of prolonged starvation. The effect is not felt in the place where the blow is delivered-it explodes inside the head. After the first blow the victim was mad with pain and broke his nails on the carpet. Ryumin beat away, trying to hit accurately. The colonel pressed down on A.D.'s torso-this was just the right sort of work for three big shoulder-board stars, assisting the all-powerful R yumin! (After the beating the prisoner could not walk and, of course, was not carried. They just dragged him along the floor. What was left of his buttocks was soon so swollen that he could not button his trousers, and yet there were practically no scars. He was hit by a violent case of diarrhea, and, sitting there on the latrine bucket in solitary, A.D. guffawed. He went through a second and a third session, and his skin cracked, and Ryumin went wild, and started to beat him on the stomach, breaking through the intestinal wall and creating an enormous hernia through which A.D.'s intestines protruded. The prisoner was taken off to the Butyrki hospital with a case of peritonitis, and for the time being their attempts to compel him to commit a foul deed were suspended.)" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Conservative (talk)

And you are wrong about this. Solzhenitsyn is describing the "enhanced interrogation" techniques used at KGB headquarters before a prisoner was sentenced to a gulag labor camp. Once in a camp, "torture" techniques like this were seldom used as a worker is of no use after being physically abused. Fess up: You either lied or your reading comprehension and retention skills are low.

Furthermore, many of the horrific stories of abuse Solzhenitsyn related occurred in the 1920s immediately after the Bolshevik seizure of power and weren't really necessary in the in later decades of the 1940s and 1950s when Solzhenitsyn was there. Sleep deprivation and standing for long hours, or a cut in the bread ration usually did the trick getting information. Any one of those answer would have been more convincing. If you were familiar with Gulag Archipelago, you would know and understand that much. IOWs, Solzhenitsyn is relating stories that were told and common knowledge among prisoners, but he did not witness. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:30, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

"Butyrki" should have been a clue; WP says, "Butyrka remained a place of internment for political prisoners and a transfer camp for people sentenced to be sent to the Gulag. IOWs, Butyrka wasn't even part of the Gulag.

Final chance to come clean and disentangle yourself from all tall tales you tell: What was the name of the other prisoner holding site in Moscow? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:57, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

I said, no fair cheating, "from memory", "off the top of your head", etc, not cut n pasted from the internet. "Pg 127" {what volume?) Sheesh.

Just give it up. go back to things you know, like UK pot holes or Ace's dietary habits. I have much more important things to attend to then this incessant trolling.

If you ever did read the book, the easiest one to cite would be how prisoners were required to crap on command with only 15 minutes to do so. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:39, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Actually, I also recalled Soviet prisoners being confined in boxes. I thought that fleas were put in the boxes, but I was mistaken. I conflated two portions of Solzhenitsyn's book The Gulag Archipelago one of which talked about very large fleas that bit (page 159 of the book). So that is why I took extra time to find one of the things I recalled.

And I don't particular care if you don't like the way I responded to your request relating to Solzhenitsyn's book. If I cared what you thought, I wouldn't have blocked your email address and phone number. I really don't care what some clown says who childishly tosses out false accusations of people being Nazis with gay abandon. Conservative (talk) 22:04, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Look, you are wasting both of our time. You never read Solzhenitsyn. Leave it at that. Find something else to do with your time. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:17, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

Proverbs 14:7. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:21, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

And don't cite the Bible to me. You have a twisted theology that seems to think that one's actions don't matter in regards to salvation (But as James says "faith without works is dead".[43]) Which goes along way in explaining why you think you can act like a jerk without any future consequences. Conservative (talk) 22:33, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

I know you are but what am I? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:49, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) You should have answered the question on Katorga - that would have been easiest. Even if you cheated and used the Wikipedia article which is largely taken from Solzhenitsyn and others, it still is in error and doesn't carry Solzhenitsyn's definition of the term. Wikipedia claims it's a Russian word, whereas Solzhenitsyn says upfront it is the Greek word to describe the life sentence of a slave chained to the oar of a boat. Nowhere does the WP article mention that. Much of Volume III discusses the history of katorga. Wikipedia focuses on the Russophobic definition of the word. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:38, June 26, 2023 (EDT)

One of my favorite, and most interesting stories in the Gulag Archipelago, particularly how it relates to literature and historiography, is the story about the 10,000-year-old salamanders found frozen in the ice of Siberia. What can you tell us or add to that? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:24, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Support for Ukraine Aid remains high among US public

[Just passing through and on my phone. Will be back later]

Sad to see some resort to ad hominems, slurs and expletives. Probably an admission that ones position cannot face up to the Truth.

And regarding: "No State shall organize, assist, foment, finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the regime of another State, or interfere in civil strife in another State.", someone should tell Putin because that's exactly what he did in Ukraine. I agree with Conservative that Prighozins rebellion shows Putin is a bad leader. There were signs of Prighozhins anger for a long time, as the Kremlin mismanaged the war more and more badly. Whether or not Prighozin was in discussion with Ukraine is beside the point.

Anyway, here is the info: "Support for sending military aid to Ukraine remains high among the American public, according to a new poll, but many want European allies to do more ...

Of 1,254 American adults surveyed, 59 percent said they support military aid to Ukraine, nearly double the 30 percent opposed. That is virtually unchanged from a the Reagan Insitute’s prior poll last November, which recorded 57 percent in favor of aid and 33 percent opposed. The questions were phrased differently. 

“The polling does not indicate that there’s Ukraine fatigue or aid fatigue,” said Rachel Hoff, policy director at the Reagan Institute. “There’s not decreasing levels of support for sending military aid to Ukraine. That’s remained consistent.” The Kremlin has not succeeded in persuading the world to look the other way. Ukraine will become a Nato member soon, and Putin will have to withdraw his troops. That's looking more and more likely. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 12:16, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Putin should have never launched his special operation in February of 2022. Some simple polling in the USA/Ukraine might have shown him the degree of resolve that the Ukrainians/Americans would potentially have. Common sense alone would have told Putin that you don't get into a potential war of attrition when you are faced with a demographic winter due to your country's subreplacement fertility rate and foreigners' reluctance to move to your country (See: Russia's fertility rate). Conservative (talk) 12:32, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Every day, the Russians are slowly retreating - and he real counter-offensive is yet to come

"‘Every day, the Russians are slowly retreating – and the real counter-offensive is yet to come’ Father and son fighting against the Russians in Bakhmut say it was ‘almost fun’ to watch Wagner mutiny as Ukrainians continue their advance

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/26/wagner-failed-coup-ukraine-soldiers-trenches-bakhmut/ NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 16:35, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Again, let me restate, the Western "experts" don't know anything about Russian military tactics or doctrine. The Russians are not fighting for territory, unlike NATO/Ukraine which is. The Russians are fighting to demilitarize Ukraine, i.e. destroy its army. Like Bakhmut and Stalingrad, the Russians draw in an attacking force, making them extend their supplies, encircle them and destroy them. Then reclaim the vacant territory.

Ukraine has not reached the Russian frontlines yet, and is fighting its way through the grey Zone (or No man's land) to reach the Russian fortifications. Along the 676 km front, the closest they have got so far is maybe 4 or 5 km. on average, it's been 20-30 kms. Someplaces 10-12 kms. Once they reach the frontline fortifications, they'll be chewed up. Each day that passes allows the Russians to further dig and resupply, whereas NATO/Ukraine is suffering horrendous losses of its limited manpower and material reserves, while extending its supply lines.

Ukraine is not fighting for any real military of strategic objective; it's conducting a PR war until July 11, hoping to get more aid. And the Russians are fine with that, cause it means bleeding NATO of resources a little more. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:35, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Meanwhile, the civilian populations of NATO turn against its leadership because of inflation and economic hardship, whereas you've just seen a united Russia behind its leadership. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 17:37, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

I spoke to the owner of the website about the main page talk dissension and infighting

I spoke to Andy about the main page talk dissension and infighting.

Andy mentioned one of the root causes. He said that some editors are ignoring the 90/10 rule.

I think Andy is correct about this matter.

What is the 90/10 rule?

The 90/10 rule is designed to encourage productive edits to our encyclopedia articles, essays and debates (see also: Conservapedia essays and Conservapedia debates). The purpose of the 90/10 rule is to discourage unproductive editing such as belligerent editing and trolling at Conservapedia (Please see: Conservapedia:Avoid personal remarks and Conservapedia:Inappropriate/trolling behavior - Examples).

The 90/10 rule discourages users from spending 90% of their time complaining, carping, cutting people down and forming cabals at Conservapedia - and only 10% actively helping to craft good encyclopedia articles/essays and participate in Conservapedia debates. Useful editing means making worthwhile edits and includes collaborative efforts to improve articles/essays on talk pages. The rule is applied to a person's editing activitity as a whole and not smaller periods of editing. For example, if users have a history of productive editing and they are editing talk pages to improve articles/essays, participate in debates or make various improvements to Conservapedia, the 90/10 rule will not be applied to them. The 90/10 rule is only applied to disruptive editors.

Conservapedia encourages collaboration to improve articles, essays and debates. Conservative (talk) 20:11, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

What are you suggesting? block Nishant? Man, you did a good job there, huh? Didn't you? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:15, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Nishant can follow the 90/10 rule. If he doesn't then he should be corrected.

RobS, I would suggest not using the main page talk as a bulletin board about the war in Ukraine. Because that is literally inviting people to disagree with you. And unfortunately, you have not been civil in some of those discussions (blocking dissenting views with templates, falsely calling people Nazis, etc.).

And of course, you and I can follow 90/10 too. Admins should lead by example.

In the past, Conservapedians focused more on content. That was good for traffic. People want to read articles or well-structured and civil debates on debate pages. They don't want to read a lot of uncivil wrangling on talk pages. Conservative (talk) 20:23, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

"I would suggest not using the main page talk as a bulletin board about the war in Ukraine". Well duh. Why did you Edit War with me when that was EXACTLY what I was putting an end to? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:26, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Look, this entire fiasco is on you. You picked a needless and senseless fight with me. You conspired against editors. You tried to turn CP into a mobocracy to gang up on other editors. You deleted talk pages. You edit warred. Your co-conspirator you tried to recruit who rejected you, now gets an official warning. Absolute brilliant work. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:30, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Don't say another word until you accept responsibility for what you have done and apologize to the editors you have harmed. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:31, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

You have long known my sentiments on 90/10. I think Andy knows. But YOU burnt Nishant in this crazy scheme of yours.

What is a Nazi? a heartless person with no regard for other people. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:34, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

RobS, when you falsely call people Nazis, rudely cover people's text in civil discussions with rude templates and accuse people of phobias they don't have (Namely, "Russophobia"), you are going to get some pushback. Conservative (talk) 20:36, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Have you figured out that there's real people with real feelings and sensibilities out there behind the keyboards, or are you just thinking of yourself? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:47, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Maybe they're all just a bunch infertile drunk Russians, or obese atheists, so who cares, huh? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:51, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

(ec) That Deletion key needs to be taken away from you. You do not know how to use it properly. You think you can do and say anything, and always cover your tracks when you screw up (you admitted as much today). Instead, you create mistrust in the wiki among users. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:38, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Then you wanna play Let's Make A Deal; "I'll stop abusing my powers if you bla bla bla". WTH? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:42, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

"...if you stop hurting my feelings" or something along those lines. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:43, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

As to me allegedly calling you a Nazi - I'm flattered. That means you value and/or respect my opinion. Unfortunately, you're only thinking about yourself. "He hurt my feelings", while you routinely disrespect people all the time and tell them outright you don't give a crap what they think. Taking 2 1/2 YEARS to respond to a polite request from Nishant, only to have to threaten to block him a day later. You have the kiss of death about you. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:01, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Actually, it is not because I highly respect you or that I am thin-skinned that I don't put up with you calling me a Nazi (I don't respect any bullies/egotists - especially those who knowingly say things that are false), it is merely because I refuse to take any guff - especially when it is obviously not true and a lie. Why should I put up with any guff? Obviously, expecting civility is not a high and unrealistic bar to ask others to clear. Conservative (talk) 23:27, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

I never called you a Nazi; I informed that there are hundreds of millions of people on planet earth who regard what you repeat daily about Russia, Russians, and Vladimir Putin as Nazi rhetoric. Your response generally is to double and triple down. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:39, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

And here's the thing: you have no need or reason to do so, because of your demonstrated lack of knowledge on the subject. Yet you repeat that nazi rhetoric daily seemingly cause somehow you got the idea that it irritates me. It doesn't. You making a fool of yourself deliberately to tweak other people (I'm not the only one here) does irritate me. I'm trying to do you a favor - just shut up about things you don't understand. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:45, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Whatever gave you the impession that I personally have some sort of an emotional attachment to Russia or Vladimir Putin, I have no idea. But it fits with an overall impression I've gained in the 15 years that I've known you as being extremely poor at reading other people. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:48, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Hey, I'm not saying t hat's a fault or anything - but I'm sure you must be aware of it. You are untrusting of other people, and make yourself, without realizing it, untrustworthy by other people. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:56, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

You did call me a Nazi. You do act rude by covering up others text with a template when they are engaging in civil debate. In addition, you think there is no price to being rude to others and breaking civility guidelines. There is often a price to being rude. For example, I was going to pay for the login problem to be fixed. You can forget about that now. Why would I pay for the login problem when the wiki is plagued by the presence of a very uncivil admin? Of course, I wouldn't ever do that. In addition, having an uncivil atmosphere is a big turn-off to new editors - even if they work their way through the login issue. Conservative (talk) 00:21, June 28, 2023 (EDT)

You screwed up BIG TIME edit warring (with another Admin) on Talk/MPR. It ain't the first time. That Deletion key needs to be taken away from you. You routinely abuse it, and no one trusts talking to you casue you always try to cover your tracks when you screw up.

People generally understand when other people make mistakes. But you hold this facade that you can always delete yours and anyone else's discussions that may hold you in a bad light. It is insulting to people, to think they are that stupid they cannot see that. Hence no one wants to discuss anything with you, cause they can't trust you. If you'd simply act human, and apologize when in error, people generally are forgiving. But you expect everyone to lie to themselves as you do, that User:Con can't ever make a mistake. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:51, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

As to this portion: "discussions that may hold you in a bad light", simple solution: Don't get involved in stupid discussions, especially those you know little about. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:58, June 27, 2023 (EDT)

Me personally, occasionally I will venture into discussions I know little or nothing ab out - to listen and learn and ask questions. I concede they probably know more and I can learn from them. Not you. You enter to tell everybody they are wrong seemingly to bust up the conversation. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:20, June 28, 2023 (EDT)

So what do you do? You go Google to teach yourself a crash course with the first couple results that come up and emerge as an expert - usually arguing outdated crap that people familiar with the subject can easily see what you are doing. Then you won't back down - cause you accomplished what you intended to do - sow division and make enemies. Then you go onto write Essays about your enemies' excessive intake of carbohydrates or something, therefore they must be Satanic atheists and going to hell, etc.

Sorry to inform you, but as an independent observer for years, I have watched this insanity. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 00:29, June 28, 2023 (EDT)