Community Portal/Archive 1

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Restoring User Pages

I wonder if you [I was referring to User:Conservative in the original context] would be be so kind as to restore the following user and user-talk pages. Most of these people were long-time respected sysops and administrators, as I'm sure you, being a long-time respected sysop and administrator yourself, well know. Many of our important articles were written by these people. Current users may want to know something about the people that went before them and built Conservapedia. We should show some respect for our history and our founding fathers/mothers.

SamHB 23:33, 10 October 2014 (EDT)

Your suggestion is a reasonable one. I was not in favor of deleting user pages. But once deleted, I don't think it would be time well spent to restore the pages. Time moves on, and time could be better spent by improving substantive entries.--Andy Schlafly 00:37, 11 October 2014 (EDT)
I can see that all the active users are pretty busy, and are probably disinclined to do this. So how about letting me do it? I'm willing to restore those pages myself. You would have to give me the appropriate temporary rights, which might be "undelete" rights, or maybe full administrator rights, I don't know how this works.
I'm sure you know, from our many communications, both public and private, that I can be trusted not to harm Conservapedia in any way. During any period in which I have extra rights, I will refrain from annoying, harassing, irritating, teasing, insulting, or otherwise getting under the skin of any other user. I will not react to any taunts. I will not abuse the rights in any way. (Though if my rights include blocking, and I see any vandals come to town, I will of course take action.)
You didn't want the pages deleted? We can fix that. What say you? SamHB 12:48, 12 October 2014 (EDT)
There's an extremely troubling aspect to all this. You say you weren't in favor of deleting the pages, and yet, here, Cons says that the owner of the web site was in favor of the deletion. Was Cons lying? Also, here, Cons seems to indicate that he was in communication with you on the subject of giving JoeyJ deletion powers. These powers are not taken lightly. In fact, JoeyJ is the only non-admin who has them. So it looks as though you gave JoeyJ the deletion powers knowing full well that he would use those powers to delete user pages. What is going on? SamHB 00:05, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

God delusion

I finished reading the Prof. Dawkin's book. I have to admit that it has shaken my religious foundations... I sometimes wonder whether that has made me an Agnostic now. It has made me question a lot of my upbringing. I was a good catholic girl. I wonder what my mom will say --Maria O'Connor 12:44, 15 November 2014 (EST)

Richard Dawkins did not research or fact check his book very well and it has a number of errors in it as can be seen in this PDF version of The Irrational Atheist.
Second, how strong were your foundations before you read the book? How did you build your foundation?
In the physical life, if you are flabby, don't get enough sleep, etc., it provides an opportunity for disease to enter. The same is true in a person's spiritual life. How familiar are you with the classic defenses of the existence of God? How familiar are you with the various evidences for Christianity? See: Evidence for Christianity Did you ever repent of your sins and dedicate your life to following Jesus Christ? How often were you reading your Bible? How often were you praying? What are the most serious arguments against agnosticism? What are the most serious arguments against atheism. See: Rebuttals to atheist arguments.
Also, Jesus promises that those who repented of their sins and accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord will have communion with Him and will receive the Holy Spirit who will guide them. Did you ever know God or were you just engaging in religious rituals? Conservative 20:07, 16 November 2014 (EST)
Richard Dawkins has had his day, says Ravi Zacharias - Christianity Today, November 15, 2014 Conservative 04:04, 17 November 2014 (EST)
@Maria O'Connor: I'm really sorry that you have been abused so badly at Conservapedia. I want you to know that there are quite a number of decent and well-intentioned people here. You should ignore the abusers, and feel welcome to make contributions. We particularly need people who are knowledgeable in matters of science. If you can contribute in this area, dig in! SamHB 22:22, 20 November 2014 (EST)
Sam, you can contribute constructively to Conservapedia, or you can pick fights on the Main Page talk page. You cannot do both. VargasMilan 17:16, 21 November 2014 (EST)
Of course Sam can contribute constructively to Conservapedia whilst disagreeing with certain other editors. He's been doing it for years..... and more strength to his arm. There are not enough Sams these days. AlanE 19:36, 21 November 2014 (EST)

Subject Matter Experts

I recently had to deal with a case of someone making an edit to a chemistry article (with a note that he has a chemistry degree, which of course we can't verify, but it very well may be true) that was reverted. It's true that his use of "subjective" and "objective" could give the wrong impression to non-experts, and I have cleaned it up. But it just needed to be cleaned up. (The cleanup that someone did afterwards was ridiculous.) This person was blocked, apparently just because of that edit. This should not have happened. Quite a number of good contributors, and potential good contributors—we'll never know—have been reverted and blocked because the people with blocking powers did not know how to evaluate the edits. Now Conservapedia often has people come here and make stupid/parody/vandalism edits. But it is monitored constantly by the sysops. It is not necessary for people to be trigger-happy. Except of course for clear vandalism. I would suggest a page, probably in the Conservapedia namespace rather than "mainspace", listing subject matter experts who can make expert analyses of these things. The list should be publicized to all sysops. Contributors can volunteer as experts in various subjects. And sysops could hold off on reverting questionable edits until an expert opinion is rendered. SamHB 23:45, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Best Troll Detection of the Public
You have no proof that the person who was blocked was merely a Subject Matter Expert and not a troll as well. This ought to be dealt with by the Best Troll Detection of the Public. Trolling techniques include emphasizing words (when the logic of argument doesn't require it) to trample over anticipated reasonable opposition to one's argument with raw emotion as well as arguing about things on the Main Page talk page that don't appear on the Main Page. VargasMilan 10:55, 29 November 2014 (EST)

I can assure you that, in my 7 years here, I have developed a good sense for the kinds of vandals, trolls, parodists, sycophants, "mall cops", and other unsavory personalities that we have. I also notice other fascinating types of people, like those who complain about posting to this page not on the topic of improving the main page content while making quite a few such postings themselves (though, in fairness, they also make on-topic postings, which I rarely do), people who did not realize that they had been given blocking powers until I told them, and people who use spectacularly recondite sentences while attacking other contributors. You see, I've been around for a while.

On the matter of making posts to this page that are not directly on the topic of improving the content of the main page, I'm sure you know that, for several years, this page has been used for a discussion of CP in general, and that everyone, including Andy and the other admins, is OK with that. A more natural place for such discussion might have been a general discussion page such as Conservapedia:Desk, but, as you can see, it has rarely been used of late. There is actually a (an?) historical reason, from a few years back, for this. I won't bore everyone with the details, but you can email me if you are interested.

Regarding my "subject matter experts" comment above, I wasn't asking for people who are good at detecting trolls. We already have plenty of people (including myself) who are good at this, and plenty of people (including you) who are good at dealing with them. We probably already have the "Best Troll Detection of the Public". I was requesting "subject matter experts", which we don't really have very many of, or don't know who they are on various topics, and requesting that subject matter expertise be used in deciding whether to revert an edit.

In the case of the molar mass edit, I was well aware that this person might be a troll—his use of the recondite (there's that word again) terms "subjective" and "objective" in a description of quantitative chemical analysis was a bit suspicious—these are quasi-philosophical terms that might be considered provocative on a wiki like this. But he also knew what molar mass means. His change was a vast improvement over the "fuel quantity" phrase. The article just needed to have the "subjective" and "objective" words taken out, which I have done. The person did know his subject matter. There was no urgency in reverting his edit.

A suggestion, Vargas: Let's both try to be nice. You do good work when you're not talking about "withering patrician disdain". We can both do better than fight with each other.

Maybe I should have spent the day shopping instead of this :-) SamHB 00:02, 1 December 2014 (EST)

I will not disregard Andy's express instructions at the top of the page! VargasMilan 16:12, 2 December 2014 (EST)
Fair enough. I will try to abide by that policy also. SamHB 17:11, 6 December 2014 (EST)
I would be interested to hear what Andy thinks of the "subject matter expert" approach. Wikipedia generally hates experts and does everything to drive them away as editors. Many of the early CP articles were written by home-schooled students. We then had Ed Poor spending years curating a large number of articles. A few other editors undertook work in particular areaa of expertise such as AlanE and BHathorn. I suspect that Andy has his own lists of experts in the back of his mind, if not written down. The problem is that everyone believes that they are an expert while management may not agree with that assessment. So, we have to see whether this proposal is compatible with the "best of the public" concept. Thanks for raising it. Wschact 07:16, 7 December 2014 (EST)

Growing Conservapedia's conservative readership and editor base

Now that Conservapedia's Twitter link on the main page, two things:

1. We could organize our wiki editors to create/expand conservative articles in order to feature them on the Twitter feed.

2. Twitter is popular among conservatives. This book shows people how to attract 200 Twitter fans every single day: http://www.amazon.com/Twitter-Followers-Step---Step-guaranteed-ebook/dp/B00KEX694O/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1417623658&sr=8-3&keywords=twitter+marketing The book is only $1.00 and it should be easy to implement. If it was implemented, the Twitter account would go from 10,000 Twitter fans/followers to 83,000 fans/followers in one year.Conservative 11:30, 3 December 2014 (EST)

Has anyone considered taking out some modest ($50-$100) number of Facebook advertising? We could use it to drive traffic to the site and to recruit new editors. Thanks, Wschact 05:34, 15 December 2014 (EST)
Wschact, create a web page called Conservapedia: New editors wanted which I will feature on the main page. I can also talk to Andy about various ways to drive traffic to the page like online advertising, etc.
It will not be Facebook advertising because Andy dislikes Facebook. Of course, if you want to take out a Facebook advert to have it go to Conservapedia: New editors wanted, you could certainly do so.
Regardless, the main page will give the page Conservapedia: New editors wanted some traffic. Conservative 15:34, 15 December 2014 (EST)
Good idea. 1) Do we have photos of Andy sitting around a computer with a bunch of his students when they were working on editing CP? How about a screen capture of Andy being interviewed with Stephen Colbert? I believe that photos are a powerful way to deliver a message. 2) Do we have any facts that we can use to convey the importance of Conservapedia's mission? Thanks, Wschact 23:02, 7 February 2015 (EST)

Make the username policy more clear

Copied on over from Help talk:How To Create a Conservapedia Account

I think it should be made clear that the username must include your real name, as opposed to recommending your real name; perhaps there could be a help page on Conservapedia's username policy. A few users have been blocked for violating an otherwise nonexistent policy (and also advised to create an account with a real name even though their account creation is disabled for two years). A clear username policy would probably be beneficial for Conservapedia. -- DanielJackson 10:46, 6 December 2014 (EST)

Conservative's "Message Area"

I seem to be unable to edit it, despite wanting to discuss something with him. As such I put out a general request for a way to contact him or for him to unlock his message area. Hopefully I'm not missing something really obvious! Nhodgson 20:18, 6 December 2014 (EST)

You would do well to just ignore him. There's really nothing that you could discuss with him. He is notoriously secretive, seeming to believe that other people go along with his games, and he often locks his own talk page, and the talk pages of his "pet" articles. He seems to expect other people to go along with his fantasy that he might be multiple people. Just ignore him. SamHB 21:37, 6 December 2014 (EST)
If we could talk to him, we might tell him that his reversion of this on purely political grounds was ludicrous and shows a serious failure to observe what is going on. That edit was more than just a minor thing about whether Lincoln was a "classical liberal" or a "post New Deal progressive"—it was blatant and outrageous vandalism, about which most admins are very vigilant. The user ("TheonlySIL", whatever that means) should be blocked permanently. Perhaps some other admin will notice. SamHB 21:48, 6 December 2014 (EST)

Setting aside SamHB's axe to grind because I/we are pro-biblical creationism and anti-Darwinism/liberal Christianity, my/our talk page has just been unlocked.

By the way SamHB, what do you think about the data contained in this article: Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity ? Can you refute it? It does not appear so! Conservative 13:00, 7 December 2014 (EST)

Haven't read it. But thanks for unlocking your talk page, Could you keep it that way, please? SamHB 23:52, 11 December 2014 (EST)
SamHB, may lock it again if I/we become extremely busy for an extended period or for other reasons which I/we prefer not to discuss. The talk pages of articles I/we created/contributed can certainly be used. Conservative 01:59, 12 December 2014 (EST)

Categories

There are two categories that are treating the same topic: Category:Best of Conservapedia and Category:Featured articles. How do they differ from each other and should they be merged?--JoeyJ 14:00, 12 December 2014 (EST)

My guess is that when authors of articles wanted to get extra views for their articles that they spent a lot of time on, they gave their articles these category labels. Conservative 15:52, 12 December 2014 (EST)
So should these categories be deleted?--JoeyJ 16:01, 12 December 2014 (EST)
While I have the greatest respect for Cons's diligence in spending a lot of time on her articles, and in getting them recognized (all her past SEO talk, for example), I notice that she does not put them into the the "best of CP" category. So I suspect that even she doesn't think the category is worth much. It does not seem to be noticed much. I just removed two obvious vanity/silliness things from it. Only three things remain. But their authors did put a lot of effort into them, and two of them are "flagship articles" by Andy. So I would consult with him on this. He probably wants a better way to promote the CBP and the Conservative words articles. In fact he has a better way: they are on the main page. So maybe you should ask him whether the "best of CP" category is worth keeping. SamHB 00:23, 13 December 2014 (EST)
SamHB, no true analyst would pretend to know the gender/genders of the editor(s) of the User: Conservative account. Solve the mystery of who/whom edited the Atheist actions against homosexuals article and you will earn the right to declare the gender/genders using the User: Conservative account to edit.
But it is a moot point anyways as the feminine Sarah Palin has more machismo than all liberal "Christians" combined!
By the way, have you read the Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity article yet? Conservative 22:15, 17 December 2014 (EST)
Nope. SamHB 00:58, 21 December 2014 (EST)

Purpose of this page

This page provides a forum for editors to discuss matters related to CP and its policies. Please do not use it as a sandbox for drafting article. You can create your own sandbox by making a subpage of your user page. Thanks, Wschact 09:43, 13 December 2014 (EST)

You're right. I was in a hurry before. Haste makes waste. :) Conservative 10:17, 13 December 2014 (EST)
There was no need to be hasty. You, of all people, must have known that it wouldn't be lost. Take a deep breath before editing.
Speaking of careless editing, I'm pleased that you correctly used "you're" above, though it took another edit, at 10:17 yesterday, to fix it. Haste makes waste. But your recent edit to the bottom of TAR's talk page has that mistake. You're in need of more care in editing. Take a deep breath (and get some sleep!) now and then. SamHB 11:31, 14 December 2014 (EST)
@TAR: I've taken out the rest of your stuff. You can move it to your talk page if you like. You can get it out of the page history, of course; nothing is ever lost unless an admin explicitly vapes it, which I don't think is going to happen. You do not need to worry about vandalism; it's easy to revert. SamHB 11:31, 14 December 2014 (EST)
@SamHB, thanks, I didn't know I could make a sandbox page beneath my username page that won't be indexed. I will do that from now on for articles I am working on. TheAmericanRedoubt 20:11, 14 December 2014 (EST)
There's a quick-and-easy trick to doing it, that I guess I ought to explain, though you might already know it. To create a new page subordinate to your user page, talk page, whatever, edit the user/talk page, and insert something like
[[User talk:TheAmericanRedoubt/sandbox99|My spiffy subpage]], and save it. When you look at it, it will be a redlink. Click on it, and you will get something like "this page doesn't exist. If you want to create it, enter the text below." Or something like that. Then paste in you new stuff. SamHB 20:25, 14 December 2014 (EST)

Deleting material from talk pages, or, even worse, deleting the page outright

Talk page material should not be deleted unless it is truly libelous or detrimental. Talk pages should be an ongoing journal of discussion of the corresponding project page. There is nothing wrong with a talk page being very short, and it is perfectly acceptable, albeit unusual, for an article page's author to say something on the talk page.

I recently had to re-create Talk:IP_camera to make a comment on the article.

SamHB 17:05, 15 December 2014 (EST)

Is there any way to recover the earlier material. Perhaps Andy or an admin could review the situation? Wschact 06:50, 18 December 2014 (EST)

Two millionth page view for the "Counterexamples to Relativity" page

The Counterexamples to Relativity has just gotten its two millionth hit. It is one of Conservapedia's best-known pages.

It seems that this page is very famous all over the internet. A Google search of Conservapedia+Relativity gets about 8000 hits. (Your mileage may vary; the test was done several months ago.) I didn't look at all of them, but I looked at the first 100, other than the CP article itself. Two were completely neutral and matter-of-fact, one was an item on ask.com that was a discussion of what "theory" means in a scientific sense, and was neutral. The other 97 were all derisive, mocking, contemptuous, and sarcastic.

Now I know that principled people are not deterred by popular opinion. But people might want to ask themselves whether the page has convinced anyone that Relativity is wrong. Or, more generally, whether it has accomplished anywhere near what its goals were. People might also want to ask themselves whether the counterexamples are objectively correct, and whether Relativity is objectively wrong. Now a lot of the discussion at CP has been about what people think about Relativity—for example, discussion of Laurence Tribe, and Barack Obama, and the folks that designed the GPS system, and the folks that operate that system, and so on. I'd like to get completely away from consideration of what people think about Relativity. Vox Populi and all that. I'd like to propose 3 questions about objective, observable facts, and ask the senior admins here to explain them without reference to people's opinions. These are matters of fact and incontrovertible observation.

  1. It is known that the perihelion of Mercury precesses, beyond Newtonian calculations, by an amount of about 43 arcseconds per (Earth) century. Without getting bogged down into quibbling over thousandths of an arcsecond, and just using the accepted figure of 43 arcseconds, why do you think this is so? Now there has been extensive discussion at Conservapedia over the possibility that the exponent in the "inverse square law" is not exactly 2. People have argued over whether or not that satisfies some principle of theoretical elegance, or makes integration easier, or whatever. I'm not interested in any of that. What I am interested in is that it doesn't work. That theory was proposed by Hall and Newcomb about 100 years ago, and quickly discarded, because it predicts a completely wrong precession for the Moon. So, why do you think this precession occurs? Do you have some theory of gravity that correctly predicts the precession of Mercury, other planets, the Moon, and Earth satellites?
  2. It is known that the received frequency of GPS satellite clock signals is about 0.44 parts per trillion faster than the frequency at which the signals were transmitted from the satellite. This discrepancy is well known, and there is circuitry in the satellites to compensate for it. Minuscule as this discrepancy is, compensating for it is essential to the correct operation of the system. Without getting into what people believed or were thinking about when the system was designed, or what people believe or think about when they upload correction parameters, why does this discrepancy exist?
  3. It is known that the mass of a Radium-226 atom (including the electrons--it makes no difference in the final outcome) is 226.025403 amu. When it undergoes alpha decay, it turns into an atom of Radon-222 (222.017571 amu) and an atom of Helium (4.002603 amu). This constitutes a loss of .005229 amu. Why is that? Is the law of conservation of mass not correct?

SamHB 00:18, 17 December 2014 (EST)

RESPONSE:
  1. The precession of the perihelion of Mercury disproves Relativity. People stopped reporting the discrepancy as technology provided greater precision; yet Relativists still insist that this proves their theory when the actual data disproves it. Newtonians are honest about the issue. Why can't liberal Relativists publicly admit that the data disproves their theory? Every scientist knows that if he questions or criticizes Relativity, then he disqualifies himself from ever winning a Nobel Prize (see, e.g., Robert Dicke), obtaining a doctorate, or receiving any research funding.
  2. There are a variety of possible explanations for the GPS discrepancy, starting with the obvious plausibility that the laws of physics are not invariant at every point in the universe. An honest, open-minded discussion of the issue would likely yield some valuable insights.
  3. There is nothing startling about an emission or loss of energy when something decays. It certainly does not prove Relativity.
Liberals make false statements about science all the time. Jimmy Carter became president by claiming that oil would run out in 35 years. There is nothing new about liberals misusing science to advance liberal goals.--Andy Schlafly 00:33, 17 December 2014 (EST)
"There is nothing startling about an emission or loss of energy when something decays. It certainly does not prove Relativity. " - So, you do accept the equivalence of mass and energy, as SamHB was talking about the loss of mass! That's good news... Or maybe, you want to rephrase your point #3. --AugustO 06:55, 21 December 2014 (EST)
It requires an enormous leap of faith, far more than is suggested by the Bible, to go from what I said to the silly, illogical E=mc2 equation.--Andy Schlafly 17:12, 21 December 2014 (EST)
Does it really? SamHB described a process where mass disappears - you answered that there is nothing startling about an emission or loss of energy. This gives the impression that you think of mass and energy as somewhat interchangeable. I know that you don't think so, that's why I asked for you to "rephrase your point #3". --AugustO 17:26, 21 December 2014 (EST)
When something decays to a lower energy state it can emit energy. That is not relativity, that is not E=mc2, and that is not "mass-energy equivalence."--Andy Schlafly 17:53, 21 December 2014 (EST)
Agreed - but you are talking about energy. The question is where is the mass of .005229 amu? (Take a look here...)--AugustO 17:56, 21 December 2014 (EST)
You rely on primitive technology used in an 82-year-old experiment. The technology is far better now, and the claim of mass-energy equivalence cannot be verified.--Andy Schlafly 19:51, 21 December 2014 (EST)

I had not intended for this to re-open the entire discussion, including the Cockcroft-Walton experiment. Aside from pointing out the 2 millionth view, the goal was to ask 3 very narrowly drawn questions. So narrowly drawn that they were not about relativity!. Not directly, anyway. They were about 3 observable phenomena, and the intent was to ask for explanations, relativity or otherwise, about them. For the second and third questions, Andy sort of did give explanations, though they were totally unsatisfactory by the standards of contemporary science.

I specifically asked for explanations that were indpependent of people's opinions, beliefs, or behavior. I guessed that Andy would either ignore the questions, or give off-topic answers. I got the latter. I got comments about relativity, honesty of "Newtonians", "relativists", liberalism, Nobel prizes, doctorates, research funding, Robert Dicke, Jimmy Carter, oil, and discrepancies with modern measuring technology. (Really? Are you saying that the anomalous precession does not occur? It's been observed since 1843. Are you saying that modern measurements show that the precession is zero, and that Leverrier was seeing something that isn't there?).

Let me restate the questions in their simplest possible form. Note that I am not asking about relativity.

  1. Anomalous precession. Why does it occur?
  2. Time dilation. Why does it occur?
  3. Non-conservation of mass. Why does it occur?

Andy did give a sort of explanation for the 2nd and 3rd of these: "The laws of physics are not invariant at every point" and "There is nothing startling [about this]".

Here is why those answers are completely unsatisfactory. Suppose that Johannes Kepler, when presented with Tycho Brahe's exhaustive data on planetary motion, including the puzzling retrograde motion of Mars, Jupier, and Saturn, had simply said "Well, I guess that, at some points in the Solar System, at some times, some planets go backward for a while." Or "There's nothing startling about this, Mars sometimes just goes backwards." He would simply be abandoning science to the capriciousness of nature. He didn't do that. He was a SCIENTIST. He looked for an explanation. He and Isaac Newton worked out a formulation that explained it. They didn't just say that the laws of nature are just something random at various places in the solar system, they came up with a physical law that was valid (relative to the measurements of the day) at all places and times in the Solar System.

The time dilation in the Earth's gravitational field is not just something random. It is known, and explained, with great precision. You can set your clock by it. (Literally!) To not be startled, or at least intrigued, by the time dilation, when time can be measured, and found not to dilate, between two points that are at the same altitude, shows a serious lack of scientific curiosity. Can you come up with a theory that explains this phenomenon quantitatively?

The same thing goes for the mass discrepancy. Conservation of mass had been known, with extreme precision, by 1900. Scientists were in fact startled and intrigued by its non-conservation. By the way, it can be measured with greater accuracy now than 82 years ago, and it still holds, or do you deny that it happens? Can you cite modern precise measurements that show that the discrepancy is zero? Can you come up with a theory that explains this phenomenon quantitatively?

SamHB 23:58, 21 December 2014 (EST)

I did specifically respond to your three points, and then days went by without a reply from you. Again, the anomalous precession disproves Relativity just as it conflicts with one model of Newtonian gravity in the solar system. Why is there an anomalous precession? The Newtonian model can be tweaked to explain it; Relativity cannot. An honest discussion by scientists of the data would advance the understanding, rather than scientists pretending that the precession proves Relativity (it doesn't).
Second, time dilation is not directly shown by anything, and certainly not by GPS. The slight variations can be explained by classical physics, or by recognizing that physical laws are probably not invariant across the universe.
Third, the evidence for non-conservation of mass is almost non-existent, with the leading experiment more than 80 years out of date. But I don't think mass is necessarily always conserved, and Newtonian physics does not depend on it. Quantum mechanics may have the potential -- if pursued with an open mind -- to shed light on this.--Andy Schlafly 00:16, 22 December 2014 (EST)
I'm not interested in what the anomalous precession proves or doesn't prove, or what scientists pretend that it proves or doesn't prove. I want to know why it occurs. The Newtonian model can be tweaked to explain it? Can you say what the tweak is? I hope it's not the Hall-Newcomb exponent tweak that was proved to be incorrect almost immediately after it was proposed. Do you have another tweak in mind?
Time dilation is most definitely shown, both by GPS, and by the Pound-Rebka experiment in 1959. This can be explained by classical physics? Really? Can you give us details? Can you give us a Johannes-Kepler-the-scientist type of explanation, that goes beyond the cop-out of saying that the laws of physics are simply different in different parts of the universe? "Different parts of the universe" is a far bigger chunk of real estate than is needed to show the effect. The Pound-Rebka experiment involved different parts of the same building, and GPS exhibits the discrepancy between different parts of medium Earth orbit. We should have a pretty good handle on how physics works in the vicinity of the Earth. Newton's law of gravitation worked over the whole solar system.
Evidence for non-conservation of mass is not "almost non-existent"; it is ubiquitous. The specific case of Radium alpha decay can be found on the periodic table charts hanging in high-school science classrooms. "I don't think mass is necessarily always conserved"—well at least you qualified it with "necessarily always", but can you be more specific? To a degree that Johannes-Kepler-the-scientist would respect? You are quite right in that Newtonian physics does not depend on it, but that's not what I was asking.
SamHB 00:38, 22 December 2014 (EST)
Andy: "You rely on primitive technology used in an 82-year-old experiment. The technology is far better now, and the claim of mass-energy equivalence cannot be verified." No, the experiment is routinely performed in courses on modern physics around the world, using modern technology. --AugustO 01:37, 22 December 2014 (EST)
On the precession of the perihelion of Mercury, tweaking the Newtonian model almost certainly can fit the data. Some objected to anything other than an exponent of precisely -2 for the force, because that muddies up the math, but that is a silly objection. The reality, however, is that anyone who pursues this approach is deemed an enemy of Relativity and won't get another research grant, doctorate, or Nobel prize. Nothing but radio silence by the Relativity promoters about that obvious reality.--Andy Schlafly 18:01, 22 December 2014 (EST)
"On the precession of the perihelion of Mercury, tweaking the Newtonian model almost certainly can fit the data." That's just a canard - and you know it, Andy: yes, the exponent of Newton's law of gravity can be tweaked (or error terms added), but this results in a model which doesn't fit all the other planets. That's known since Simon Newcomb's days - and User:SamHB elaborated on this nearly five years ago! The first time you came up with this idea, you could have pretended to be ignorant on this subject. But you repeat it over and over again, without having done the calculations, or looking up why physicists discarded the idea a hundred years ago! That's worse than ignorance, that's willful ignorance.
--AugustO 08:36, 28 December 2014 (EST)

Let's not be too hasty with judgements about ignorance, willful or otherwise. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this (and the other two phenomena). We're making good progress by drawing the questions very narrowly.

I believe that Andy has indeed read the relevant items, like this page from nearly five years ago, and this section, with its table of precessions of the planets. (I did not put in the phrase "fail to", by the way.)

So let's go over the situation again, extremely carefully. The bulk of the table was from me, though the all-important final column was added by User:Jloveday, using some experimental data that he dug up. I'm not in full agreement with the way he rounded the data, but the effect is clear. Even though getting good error bounds on the minuscule precession of planets beyond Mercury is very difficult, one can easily see, from the last few columns, that General Relativity tracks the observed precession very well, while the Newcomb-Hall tweak of 2.000000157 tracks it extremely poorly. Except for Mercury, of course, since the exponent was tweaked specifically for that planet.

So, Andy: What is the tweak to Newtonian mechanics that explains the precession for all the planets? And, while we're at it, can you give a satisfactory explanation for the other two phenomena, time dilation and mass non-conservation?

Andy also says: "Some objected to anything other than an exponent of precisely -2 for the force, because that muddies up the math, but that is a silly objection." I agree, it's silly. Though I am a little curious about who these "some" are. Can you cite something on the subject? Perhaps one of your physics textbooks?

Also: "The reality, however, is that anyone who pursues this approach is deemed an enemy of Relativity and won't get another research grant, doctorate, or Nobel prize." As I said earlier, I'm not interested in the personalities; I just want to know why you think the precession occurs. (Actually, that's not true. I am deeply interested in the history of science and technology. But not right now. We can discuss that some other time.) So I'll make you an offer: If you get turned down for a research grant, doctorate, or Nobel prize over this, I'll stick up for you. I'll cite the spirited debate you and I have been having over the last several years as evidence that you've thought deeply about these issues. Though I don't think I have much influence over funding agencies or Nobel committees.  :-)

SamHB 19:12, 29 December 2014 (EST)

Categories

I generally have a "live and let live" attitude towards the edits of others on CP, and don't want to criticize any particular editor. However, CP has experienced over time that editors come here from Wikipedia, where there are millions of articles and a very high number of Categories. Because CP is much smaller, we have opted for fewer categories, Over the past day, someone has created a bunch of new categories like Category:Conservative Authors. Category:Christian Authors, etc. Such narrow new categories will make a lot more work for everyone and may discourage editors from categorizing their articles. Perhaps Andy and management could please take a look? Thanks, Wschact 06:58, 18 December 2014 (EST)

The relevant provision of Conservapedia:Quick reference says: "Creating new "Categories" While this is sometimes needed, before undertaking larger projects that will have ramifications for many existing articles, please contact one of the Administrators on their talk page, and inform them of your idea."

To my liberal, sissy boy, atheist critics of guns in Texas!

Gentlemen, consider this picture of Amish women shooting rifles. When is the last time you heard of Amish women going on shooting rampages? :)

Amish women do not watch violent video games or watch television shows and/or movies with gratuitous violence! See Hollywood values. And unlike Muslims, the only beheadings Amish women read about is David beheading Goliath (and we know Goliath deserved it for defying the armies of the living God!).

Amish women are peaceful creationists and not violent evolutionists (see: Social effects of the theory of evolution and World War I and Darwinism and Evolutionary racism),

Amish women are loyal wives and are less likely to have their husbands go on jealous/violent rampages (see: Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity). And Amish men have submissive wives and do not endlessly quarrel with stubborn, feminist wives! And irreligious men are more likely beat their wives/girlfriends than religious men (see: Irreligion and domestic violence).

Gentlemen, it is the dysfunctional liberals and liberal influence that causes much of the violence in Texas. No true conservative goes on a gun rampage! When is the last time you heard of a gun rampage occurring due to a student in a Bible believing Christian school? Never, my liberal, atheist friends? If only Texas wasn't creating so many jobs and a magnet to unemployed and undisciplined liberals fleeing their liberal welfare states!

And remember this, guns are an insurance policy for rogue states. Surely, you have read about such states (see: Atheism and Mass Murder and Evolution and Nazi Germany).

Gentlemen, I hope this clarifies matters. Conservative 14:47, 17 December 2014 (EST)

By the way, don't even think about saying that the Amish are pacifists and would not kill in self-defense.
Would an Amish man use violence to protect his wife? Did David eat the show bread?[1] :) Conservative 15:00, 17 December 2014 (EST)
Thank you for giving up your precious time to add these insights to the talk page, Conservative. The world would be a better place if more wives followed your example. JSamson 17:25, 17 December 2014 (EST)
No true skeptic pretends to know the gender/genders of the editor(s) of the User: Conservative account. Solve the mystery of who/whom edited the Atheist actions against homosexuals article and you will earn the right to declare the gender/genders using the User: Conservative account to edit.
But it is a moot point anyways as the feminine Sarah Palin has more machismo than all liberal atheists combined! Conservative 17:45, 17 December 2014 (EST)
I thought there was to be no further additions from the User: conservative account on the talk page? Perhaps one of the members did not get the memo? -JaysonK 13:51, 18 December 2014 (EST)
Buckling down on time management. Plan to post less on talk pages. Revised plans about talk pages. Will post on talk pages when it is related to article/wiki improvement. Conservative 18:54, 18 December 2014 (EST)

References


A project for active editors to collaborate on

Would you anyone like to collaborate with other editors on a wiki project to help Conservapedia be a strong resource for a given topic.

The topic could be decided by the editors participating.

If you are interested, please leave comments below. I suggest picking a leader/leaders for the project or least assign people for various tasks associated with the project. Conservative 21:50, 25 December 2014 (EST)

I would be happy to help, but my time is limited.FOIA 22:06, 25 December 2014 (EST)
Merry Christmas Cons, and thanks for the thought. I think, however, that I would tend to become a "Devil's Advocate" in any collaboration I can envisage. The token liberal so to speak (and I say that with no malice.) I will need to know more. AlanE 22:21, 25 December 2014 (EST)
AlanE, it doesn't have to be a political project. It can be on a non-political topic. I will let whoever participates decide on the topic and whether or not it will be a political project.Conservative 22:44, 25 December 2014 (EST)
If AlanE and FOIA and anyone else who joins wants to decide on a topic tomorrow, the project can start right away. It can be announced on the main page also.Conservative 23:33, 25 December 2014 (EST)
I'd be happy to join in and help in any way I can. Merry Christmas. I have been and will mostly focus on the articles List of military tactics and List of military strategies and concepts. Long life the Republic! TheAmericanRedoubt 01:33, 26 December 2014 (EST)
Your invitation was an honor, and I thank you for your confidence. I will be happy to help. As soon as I finish my current "Bible" project, I will look more closely at what you have here and see what I can do. Semper Fi! --Dataclarifier 19:00, 26 December 2014 (EST)
Sounds great. Thanks for tackling the project. Conservative 06:16, 27 December 2014 (EST)

Ideas for potential articles

Political:

Less political:

Non-political:


Feel free to add article ideas Conservative 00:32, 26 December 2014 (EST)

This date I must apologetically withdraw my participation. My prayers for success of this project. May God + bless this work.
See REDUCED INVOLVEMENT IN CONSERVAPEDIA DUE TO WORK AS VOLUNTEER OMBUDSMAN FOR ELDERLY
--Dataclarifier 12:28, 27 February 2015 (EST)

Do we really have so few responsible editors .....

that obsessed individuals can materially change the tone and direction of Conservapedia with no one to apply the brakes.? Remember when this was supposed to be a resource for home-school students? A place where they could look up "vibration", for example, and get a concise definition of what it is, at their level, without going off into mystical medical cults? Remember when this was a good description of Conservapedia's vision and goals?

What happened? We now have just a tiny number of people turning the place into a survivalist blog, and an herbal medicine blog, or whatever, with hardly anyone to apply editorial direction. This wiki needs supervision.

SamHB 18:30, 2 January 2015 (EST)

Things like Category:Ayurvedic Medicine look very troubling indeed! --AugustO 01:58, 3 January 2015 (EST)
I agree with you there AugustO, I would say the content in those articles would be more at home on hippypedia or alternaticemedicinepedia than on conservapedia. Remember, conservatives like to have things backed up by facts, not nonsensical anecdotes that are the backbone of alternative medicine. PhilH 02:15, 3 January 2015 (EST)
Despite all the blurbs for Ayurvedic medicine in inappropriate places, Ayurvedic medicine itself remains a red link. PeterKa 17:57, 4 January 2015 (EST)

Response to User:SamHB, User:PhilH and User:AugustO Regarding Ayurvedic - Chinese - Western Herbal Medicine on Conservapedia

I am reposting-quoting here User:AugustO's post on User_talk:Aschlafly#Ayurvedic_medicine in order to see why I am making such a detailed point-by-point response.

"You know me as conservative on social or fiscal issues, but my conservatism reaches its zenith on medicine. I am very dedicated to Western medicine, and run away from "new age" or other fringe medicine approaches. Andy, you have to draw a line here on whether Conservapedia has the expertise and resources to cover Ayurvedic medicine properly. I doubt that we do and should stay away from it completely. Please decide and tell User:TheAmericanRedoubt you decision. Many thanks for all that you do for the Conservative movement. Wschact 21:42, 2 January 2015 (EST)

Category:Ayurvedic Medicine is like an advert for alternative medicine: it has 110 subcategories and is itself in 26 categories:
Category:Ayurvedic Medicine|Category:Tibetan Medicine|Category:Complementary Medicine|Category:Medicine|Category:Health Care|Category:Traditional Chinese Medicine|Category:Naturopathic Medicine|Category:Herbalism|Category:Medicinal Plants|Category:Herbs|Category:Spices|Category:Plants used in Traditional Chinese Medicine|Category:Plants used in Ayurvedic Medicine|Category:Plants used in Western Herbal Medicine|Category:Herbalists‎|Category:Health|Category:Survivalism|Category:India|Category:Tibet|Category:Nepal|Category:Mongolia|Category:Burma|Category:Thailand|Category:Sri Lanka|Category:Asia|Category:Southeast Asia|
That could be a kind of record! --AugustO 02:04, 3 January 2015 (EST)

Response to User:Wschact and User:AugustO Regarding Ayurvedic - Chinese - Western Herbal Medicine on Conservapedia

Happy New Year User:Aschlafly, User:Wschact, User:AugustO, User:Conservapedia, and User:Karajou

Thank you for your patience with this detailed point-by-point response.

Like you User:Wschact, I too am a steadfast conservative, but on much more than just social and fiscal issues, as my thousands of conservative point-of-view Conservapedia edits can attest to (Please see my User:TheAmericanRedoubt for more information). Also like you User:Wschact, I too am very dedicated to Western medicine and work together with a medical doctor with a busy private practice office in a large hospital setting where he and I integrate both modern pharmaceutical based treatment and the use of custom made Ayurvedic-Chinese-Western herbal formulas, nutrition (based on Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine concepts) and acupuncture. He supervises my practice in that setting. Like you User:Wschact, both he and I also run away from the myriad "new age" medicine approaches. However, Ayurvedic medicine, Chinese medicine - Acupuncture and Western herbal medicine are not "new age". Ayurveda and Chinese medicine - Acupuncture have been in continuous use since at least 250 B.C. according to archaeological evidence and extant classic medical texts in both Chinese characters, Tibetan and Sanskrit (which I can read by the way in Devanagari script).

Conservapedia does indeed have the expertise and resources to cover Ayurvedic medicine and Chinese medicine - acupuncture properly since I am contributing as a dedicated regular editor and have joined the Wikiproject:Medicine to lend my ongoing support editing/categorizing ALL articles in the realm of medicine / anatomy in addition to my other subject matter expertise areas on my User Page / Talk Page.

User:PhilH has said there is no clinical evidence to support complementary medicine. Not according to the U.S. National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine of the National Institutes of Health who funds clinical trials on herbal medicines effectiveness, not according to medical doctors in America who integrate modern medicine with complementary medicine, not according to numerous conservatives who rely on complementary medicine including Western herbalism, Chinese Medicine, Ayurveda and Acupuncture. Just the fact that there is licensing for acupuncture in most of the U.S. states (majority of states require the licensing examination or certification, and several states allow oriental medicine practitioners to be "primary care providers" for legal and insurance purposes; nineteen states specifically include Chinese herbology instead of just acupuncture). For naturopathic medicine 17 states, five Canadian provinces, the District of Columbia, and the US territories of Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands all have laws regulating naturopathic doctors (See map http://aanmc.org/images/LicensureMapBig.jpg -- even very conservative states such as my home state of Idaho in the American Redoubt, along with Montana and Utah license naturopathy).

All of this attests to complementary medicine's broader acceptance, not to mention the size of the herbal market in the U.S. economy: For herbal medicine "overall sales reached $5.6 billion in 2012" "rising from $4.2 billion in 2000" (http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Markets/Herbal-supplement-sales-rose-5.5-in-US-in-2012-ABC-says)

There are many conservatives blogs and forums that I follow that have regular articles on complementary medicine and herb usage. Complementary/alternative medicine is not some liberal, hippie or New Age thing. It is even paid for by many insurance companies now. There is worker's comp coverage for it in certain U.S. states.

Regarding evidence in my articles, I will indeed be submitting footnoted hyperlinked clinical evidence from MedLine / PubMed.

Regarding the Category:Ayurvedic Medicine having lots of sub-categories: There are many sub-categories in the Ayurvedic medicine category since it is a broad science including many diverse health and disease topics and since I am a very detail oriented person as you can see with my contributions for the firearms categorizations (which formerly were all lumped into just the Category of "Guns"). I am using that Category:Ayurvedic Medicine and its temporarily numerous subcategories as a way of temporarily getting a broad view and tracking ability of ALL of the medicine-anatomy categories and articles in order to update them all over the coming months. I promise that I will pare that category down in the next 60 days to something smaller once I have updated-edited-expanded ALL of the medicine/anatomy related articles to follow a consistent yet detailed categorization scheme. I always start first with detailed Wiki categories in order to flesh out the scope-breadth-depth and a logical structure for the articles I will submit. I am doing the same detailed categorization for Firearms and other areas.

User:Conservative has been "mentoring" me as to what I should and shouldn't post. I have been following this for guidance as well: Conservapedia:Editorial_authority. I also received advice from User:Karajou on Sat, 26 Apr 2014 23:15:17 by e-mail (conservapedia AT zoho.com) who said, "Try your hand at writing complete articles. Conservapedia is not just something containing conservative thought; it is also intended to be a family encyclopedia, so it has to have info on planes, trains, automobiles, animals, sports teams, camera systems, or whatever else comes to mind. So, if you happen to be an expert on - say, rowboats - write an article on rowboats. Karajou".

Thus, following Karajou's advice above and oversight from User:Conservative, I am writing "whatever comes to mind" on what I "happen to be an expert on". Thus, I have be developing a lot of detailed articles and their categorizations for my 6 areas of specialization (in order of my depth of subject matter expertise): 1. Medicine, 2. Computer networks (17 years professional experience), 3. Preparedness-Survivalism, 4. Firearms, 5. Permaculture gardening, 6. Radio communication technologies - Amateur radio. Being a staunch American conservative libertarian "prepper" "gun nut", I obviously write/edit from that perspective.

For these and many other reasons, I don't see a reason for Conservapedia to stay away from complementary medicine completely as you suggest User:Wschact. Thus, I will continue to contribute such works to Conservapedia until I am told to stop by any of the CP Administrators such as User:Aschlafly, User:Conservative, or user User:Karajou.

Thank you to you all for your work for our Conservative movement. Godspeed. TheAmericanRedoubt 06:57, 3 January 2015 (EST)

"Troll" Editing by User:SamHB of Numerous articles I am Working on / Editing / Contributing

User:SamHB, First you accuse me of plagiarizing, then you delete my citation correcting your speedy deletion template notice. Are you "Trolling" perhaps ("users who purposely make disruptive edits are considered trolls") like your friends User:PhilH and this other friend of yours who made the comment on Talk:Free_state?

User:SamHB, Please follow these Guidelines rather than making disruptive edits to further your agenda: Conservapedia:Guidelines#90.2F10_Rule

User:SamHB, Looking at your contribution here: http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=SamHB

User:SamHB, I see that the last time you actually contributed any kind new article other than a Talk Page was here 2 years and 6 months ago: 18:54, 1 June 2013 (diff | hist) New! Propositional Calculus ‎ (A start. Ed, it's time for you to step up to the plate (See? I do know a few metaphores, though I'm not a TopDog!) and fill out this article.)

Looking at your contribution logs, a large amount of your recent edits in the last 30 days have been reverting my edits.

http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Tinospora_cordifolia&action=history: 08:11, 4 January 2015 SamHB (Talk | contribs | block) (7,439 bytes) (Do not "spam" links to extrenal commercial websites. People are routinely banned for that.) (undo)

17:07, 2 January 2015 SamHB (Talk | contribs | block) (6,798 bytes) (If you really think blatantly plagiarized material should stay, please post a note to the community portal explaining this.) (undo)

User:SamHB, It seems you are not listening to my previous Talk page on these articles. This is the second time I am telling you this. Please kindly listen this time and stop troll editing.

User:SamHB, these links you deleted are 'not' Spam links to external sites. It is a temporary citation for a quote I made to start the rough draft of the article -- the "ref" is to a respected and authoritative source of information on this herb; just as IBM would be an authoritative and respected cite regarding IBM Mainframe computers. Once I type in quotes and/or paraphrase summaries from some of my numerous Ayurvedic herb books listed here Tinospora_cordifolia#External_Links, I will cite them as well to flesh out the article.

Formerly you were here on this very article Tinospora cordifolia accusing me of plagiarizing by not citing my 1 paragraph quote and nominated the article for deletion. Again, SamHB, please respect as I said before on my user talk page (perhaps you can read it) that I will be completing these articles in the next five days and let me do the editing on my article that I started, otherwise it slows me down to have to constantly go back and check the history of the pager to see if someone is "helping out".

While you can perhaps please consider contributing some new actual articles of your own in your own area of expertise such as math rather than editing one I am in the middle of working on. Thank you for your understanding. TheAmericanRedoubt 10:41, 4 January 2015 (EST)

This Site is Being Hijacked

There is no more pleasant way to put that.

This is a continuation of what I wrote above about "Do we really have so few responsible editors". The problem is extremely serious. Ultimately, it is about there being so few people who are responsible, level-headed, and able to put reasonable amounts of time into this, that one person can overwhelm everyone and turn Conservapedia into something far removed from its original goal. The original goal, in case people have forgotten, was a site that home-school students (and others, of course) can use as a general reference source, on a wide variety of topics, without bias from the liberals elsewhere on the Internet.

But User:TheAmericanRedoubt is single-handedly steering the site into a very different and troubling direction. Multiple directions, actually. How is he able to do this? Because his editing is fanatical, intense, and obsessive, and there aren't enough level-headed editors around who have the time and energy to put the brakes on.

He is turning this into a blog on survivalism, one very particular "Vata/Dosha/Ayurvedic" type of nontraditional medicine, and many other things. There is nothing wrong with articles on these topics, but he is overwhelming Conservapedia with his obsessive editing.

He has put dozens and dozens of references to his views on survivalism into a huge number of articles for which such references are totally inappropriate. He seems to think that we should all drop out of society, cash in everything we have into "tangibles" (bullets, beans, batteries, whatever) and move to "redoubt states" like Idaho to spend the rest of our days behind some barricades doing .... I don't know.

His steering of CP into his chosen direction is made all the worse by his fanatical cross-referencing and categorizing. This has put his writings "in your face" when people go to normal topics. For example:

  • vibration used to be a short article explaining what wibration is—a rapid periodic undulating motion. TAR put it into the "VATA" category. When one looks around in same, one finds some new-age touchy-feely nonsense about psychological perceptions of vibration. He polluted Fashion industry values in the same way.
Dear SamHB, I will be adding some explanation to Fashion industry values and to my vata article to show that according to Ayurvedic medicine, patients who are "vata" disturbed or of a vata constitution have a very strong documented tendency to be part of much of the Fashion industry values, particularly anorexia nervosa, serious drug abuse, extreme promiscuity, unfettered cosmetic surgery, severe depression along with an obsession for fashion.

One of my family members is a psychologist of 24 years who also knows Ayurveda and who has seen fashion industry values addictions among countless "vata" disturbed patients, but not among pitta or kapha patients who are more stable and not usually addicted to these same things. Sam, I shall be showing vibration to show a similar connection to the Category:Vata both in Ayurveda, Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine. Perhaps SamHB it is best you stick with writing new useful articles on mathematics and calculus.

Perhaps Sam you may want to considering following the wise advice of conservative User:VargasMilan: "Withholding judgment for now is good".
Please be patient while I work on expanding articles and writing new content. Thank you. TheAmericanRedoubt 06:49, 5 January 2015 (EST)
Sam, in due time I shall expand these articles as well to show my reasoning. But for now I will follow my favorite CP Rule (Conservapedia:Guidelines#90.2F10_Rule) and get back to work writing new content and will follow VargasMilan's advice below and try to not urgently "feel pressured to complete all the red links and for-now-obscure connections" "just because some people don't like" me "trying to be an effective voice for conservatism, and so they unfairly single" me "out." TheAmericanRedoubt 07:26, 5 January 2015 (EST)
Dear SamHB, I corrected my accidental cut and paste of the Category:Survivalism on Ruthenium done when I first created the Category:Precious Metals (

http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Category:Precious_Metals&action=history) on Dec. 4. Thanks for catching them SamB.

I expanded the one sentence stub for transformer to include more content and formatting including its reason for being part of Category:Survivalism.
Regarding the article Wire - was an article on expanded to include the electrical connector (it primary sense), since it formerly only described some Rock band Album (see

http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Wire&action=historysubmit&diff=1123057&oldid=1102092)

SamB, I think I will get back to making constructive edits and creating new content rather than hanging out on Talk pages. Good day. TheAmericanRedoubt 06:34, 5 January 2015 (EST)
  • He has written extensively about amateur radio, which, as an extra-class licensed ham, I think is fine. But the implication is that hams are just supposed to do this so they can communicate with each other "off the grid" in their "redoubts". I can assure everyone that the vast majority of hams (even those in call sign area 7) are fully engaged in society. We take emergency preparedness very seriously, of course, and have a big annual contest on this topic every year, but this is always done in cooperation with existing local, state, and federal emergency organizations. We have sub-organizations (ARES and RACES) dealing with this. We are very much on the grid and in society, and I object to the implication that we are not.
  • His IP camera article, to pick just one of dozens of examples, links to Survivalist retreat. This is absurd.

In addition to his fanatical edits to Conservapedia articles that, by themselves, materially alter this site's direction, this huge web of interconnected categories and "see also"s makes it impossible for readers to escape his actions. This is significantly worse than what User:Conservative has been doing because, in the latter case, one simply needs to ignore any article with "hot button" phrases like "obesity", "evolutionism", "creationism", "atheism", "ponies", "walrus slides", and "long-haired creationist ladies". It's much much harder to escape from User:TheAmericanRedoubt's behavior.

I urge the administrators to put a stop to this. The rest of us simply can't do it.

SamHB 15:08, 4 January 2015 (EST)

SamHB, I did a Google search of instances of the phrase "long-haired" on Conservapedia and none of the instances were done by the User: Conservative account. Are you jealous because you suspect that an editor of the User: Conservative account has a long-haired maiden as a sweetheart and you do not? :)
Try Talk:Main_Page/Archive_index/120#please_make_a_cost.2Fbenefit_analysis_in_terms_of_human_welfare. It has "long haired, sweet and gentle Christian lady wife", no hyphen. Sorry. Anyway, I'm glad that at least one of you (male, I hope!) has "a long-haired maiden as a sweetheart". SamHB 16:53, 4 January 2015 (EST)
Second, the odds of you being listened to by Aschlafly in terms of suggestions/complaints, etc. would go dramatically up if you created more content. Right now, I think the odds are pretty much zero given your level of content creation. Conservative 15:21, 4 January 2015 (EST)
I agree that the odds are nearly zero, but not for the reason you give. My history as a constructive contributor of long standing is well known to Andy. But thanks for your words of encouragement. SamHB 16:53, 4 January 2015 (EST)
Quote Right now, I think the odds are pretty much zero given your level of content creation. Doesn't mean SamHB is not right though. The edits from the redoubt are so obviously either parody or highly biased POV pushing that it is difficult to argue otherwise. Woo is not encyclopedic, no matter who peddles the woo. Now I leave both redoubt and the collective known as User:Conservative to indulge in last wordism. Davidspencer 15:35, 4 January 2015 (EST)
Oh, and if the collective editors of the User:conservative account have a long haired maiden as a sweetheart then I would question how multiple people having the same sweetheart is in any way Christian? Seems more liberal hippy type behaviour to me. Davidspencer 15:37, 4 January 2015 (EST)
DavidSpenceer, you may believe that deceitful accusations based on altering the meaning of other people's words is clever. It is not. And it makes the accuser look bad. Conservative 16:15, 4 January 2015 (EST)
That is not what I was doing and you know it. Luke 4:23 Now, as I said I will leave you and redoubt to indulge in last wordism at this point.Davidspencer 16:17, 4 January 2015 (EST)

DavidSpencer, I think posting long screeds to a person who is known to preferring brevity and doing it in a context that has an effective success rate is zero is irrational. But hey, that's just me! :) Conservative 16:37, 4 January 2015 (EST)

Is there a specific objection to a specific edit? I looked at transformer, for example, and did not see anything objectionable about it.--Andy Schlafly 20:46, 4 January 2015 (EST)

I believe the objection was to the addition of the Survivalism category. If transformers are important to Survivalism, then it would be difficult to name a practical object that doesn't deserve inclusion in that category. AlexanderS 00:09, 5 January 2015 (EST)
I updated the transformer article to reflect why I included it in the Category:Survivalism. Thank you for pointing it out. TheAmericanRedoubt 01:54, 5 January 2015 (EST)
Thanks AlexanderS for your observations. Each item I put in the Category:Survivalism will have expanded, footnoted content added to the article to justify its inclusion in this broad Survivalism category. For now, please be patient with it. Unless Andy Schlafly objects to the content. I will be, in due time, reasonably justifying it with actual expanded content that respects copyright. Please see: Talk:Fair_use#Authorization_by_NYT_Best-Selling_Conservative_Christian_Preparedness_Author_James_Wesley_Rawles_to_use_.22up_to_3_Quotes_of_800_Words_Each.22_of_his_Writings_per_CP_Article. TheAmericanRedoubt 07:26, 5 January 2015 (EST)
SamHB and AlexanderS are worried that there are 404 articles and 125 subcategories in Category:Survivalism now. Wschact 09:35, 5 January 2015 (EST)

I am sure that SamHB has a better list, but you can review the user TAR contrib log for yourself:

A. Categories on Redirect Pages (he has promised to stop, but has not fixed):

B. Excessive See Alsos:

C. Copy and Paste:

D. Odd new categories:

  • Category:Breathing - now 5 martial arts articles have been added but the see also and subcategories don't match the martial arts.
  • Category:Respiratory System - a bit of back and forth between TAR and SamHB - the 12 articles in this category don't match the ideas added by TAR.

E. Adding novel categories to long-standing articles:

F. Sloppy linking:

G. Unilaterally modifying our legal disclaimer framework

I have modified my rough draft Template:Medical Notice to be more generic. I have now linked the template clearly to the official CP legal disclaimer (Conservapedia:General_disclaimer). Please feel free to edit the template. But I do think we need a specific medical disclaimer template like the rough draft one I created. This is why I attached it to my several rough drafts he astutely cited above. Please see Template_talk:Medical_Notice TheAmericanRedoubt 07:56, 5 January 2015 (EST)
With utmost respect, {{Medical Notice}} should not be put into article space as a "rough draft". Create a page at User:TheAmericanRedoubt/Medical Notice for the rough draft and then invite other people to edit it with you. Once there is agreement and editors who are lawyers have had a chance to review it, then we will have the go ahead to add {{Medical Notice}} into articles. Also, interweaving this discussion in the middle of my earlier posting msy confuse other readers. Thanks, Wschact 09:30, 5 January 2015 (EST)

I don't want to come across as negative, but there have been a lot of edits from TAR without people taking the time to train him properly. We need you to set the standard so that the end product will meet our consensus expectations. Many thanks! Wschact 01:05, 5 January 2015 (EST)

Please see my response to TAR's questions about categories here.

Withholding judgment for now is good

The American Redoubt's proving the relevance of Transformer to survivalism as we speak. I don't agree with every cross-reference he added, but I don't want him to feel pressured to complete all the red links and for-now-obscure connections he made immediately just because some people don't like him trying to be an effective voice for conservatism, and so they unfairly single him out. VargasMilan 01:55, 5 January 2015 (EST)

Thank you VargasMilan for your kind and inspiring words amidst the loud noise and shock coming from the transformer. :) I will follow your advice and focus on the Conservapedia:Guidelines#90.2F10_Rule TheAmericanRedoubt 07:56, 5 January 2015 (EST)
I think that if you read User talk:TAR, you will see that everyone is trying to be respectful and constructive. I have also left my comments on the recent Transformer edits here. (His additions go to the question of grid reliability, not the question of whether someone should go off the grid.) The problem is that CP has a traditional view of conservatism. We need Andy to tell us where to go on non-Western medicine and survivalism. In general, I know a lot about law and social order and the electric industry. I am not an expert in living as a mountain man in a post-civilization world. I am not an expert in non-Western medicine. So, if we go in those new avenues, I would step back from the project. Thanks, Wschact 02:32, 5 January 2015 (EST)
Each time you commented about The American Redoubt's present shortcomings in completeness, you reproduced the section title "This Site Is Being Hijacked" in the edit summary. For someone who claims to know so much about transformers, you didn't seem to realize that you could have been administering to The American Redoubt quite a shock! VargasMilan 02:47, 5 January 2015 (EST)
I did not name that discussion heading, but that is where Andy asked for specific links. Please look at the user talk page. I believe we must be positive and encouraging to new editors, but we have asked Andy for guidance for five days now. This is like Humpty Dumpty - each hour of indecision creates more and more clean up work. Everyone involved has been very polite, but TAR is pressing ahead full steam rather than consulting and soliciting feedback in an incremental, consensus building way. It is too bad that the Style Manual is protected. Otherwise, I would add further guidance about "see also" lists and categories. Many people come here after using Wikipedia, so they understand the concepts, but TAR is going off in his own direction. Similarly, the Style Manual needs to be clarified on what content should go on a category page and that categories should not be assigned to a redirect page. Thanks! Wschact 03:19, 5 January 2015 (EST)

The Manual of style page is now unprotected. After reasonable changes have been made to Manual of Style (which are not overly restrictive), ask an Admin to protect the page again. Conservative 04:31, 5 January 2015 (EST)

I'm done. Please look it over and protect. Many thanks. Wschact 10:04, 5 January 2015 (EST)
The edits looked practical. I protected the article again. Conservative 11:24, 5 January 2015 (EST)
Looks great User:Wschact. Thanks for putting it in writing for newer editors who don't know the unwritten policies of the past. I will do my best to follow it. See my responses to your appreciated and polite mentoring over at Category_talk:Exercise. It's great Wschact that you are pleasantly civil and don't use words like "Rubbish!" and "Hideous!" as you delete my edits without even a Talk Page comment like a certain Expat American from the liberal bastion of Massachusetts. :-) TheAmericanRedoubt
People are telegraphic and brief in edit summaries. SamHB and others all want CP to be a good resource, and for editors to work well together. The problem is that some people amp up their word choice when they feel that they are being ignored. You cannot finish CP in one day, so don't feel as if we are putting pressure on you. Just focus on one or two things at a time and give people an idea of where you are trying to go. Thanks, Wschact 17:02, 5 January 2015 (EST)
The abolitionist Harriet Tubman declared: "I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if they only knew they were slaves." If only SamHB would be open-minded enough to recognize the truth of TheAmericanRedoubt's essay on unfree states. Then he could escape the taxation scourge and big government scourge of Massachusetts that are robbing him of his economic freedom and other liberties! Conservative 17:41, 5 January 2015 (EST)

Wschact, your "mountain man"/"outside my expertise"/"I'll have to step away from the project" comment is not conducive to building an encyclopedia.

Encyclopedias are broad based reference works. They don't solely cover urban living for example and can cover such topics as eskimos, Middle Eastern and African nomadic life, Australian aboriginal life, anarchy in Somalia, etc. If we wanted a project which solely covered your expertise such as law and social order in first world countries or the electric industry, it would stop being an encyclopedia.

If someone wants to create a wiki called UrbanWhiteLiberalElitePedia.org, I have no problem with that, but it will not be a very encyclopedic work. Conservative 17:31, 12 January 2015 (EST)

On January 12, Conservative left a message on my talk page about a sentence that I posted above on 02:32, 5 January 2015 (EST). Basically, I argue that being a Conservative means working within society to build a social structure that promotes individual freedom and liberty while using government in a prudent fashion when necessary. I feel that certain extreme people are trying to scare prospective followers into leaving society now to live alone in a lightly populated area outside of the fabric of society. (This is a separate question from being prepared should society fail due to some crisis or catastrophe.) A conservative perspective should help us learn how to live together with wisdom, rather than endorse a viewpoint that assumes that society will fall apart completely very soon. So, I enthusiastically endorse covering all human knowledge including mountains, eskimo culture, and even guns. However, under Conservapedia Commandment #5, those article should be written without bias, including bias that advocates that people should leave society now to anticipate the imminent collapse of American society. I am sorry if my remarks were not clear. I know we both believe in Conservapedia Commandment #5 and don't see any difference in our policy objective. I am putting my energy into building a better encyclopedia within a constantly improving American society, rather than advocating a withdrawal from society based on the assumption that American society will fail soon. Wschact 21:36, 12 January 2015 (EST)

Did the 1929 Great Depression in the USA happen unexpectedly to many people? Did many people experience great hardship during the Great Depression? Has the US government, which is 13 trillion dollars in debt and engaged in a lot of money printing, nullified the business cycle and immune from the laws of economics? Are there reputable economists who believe that very seriously harmful, black swan events can still happen to modern economies?[3][4] Did liberal economist community predict the 2007 economic crisis or did the conservative Austrian school of economics much better predict it?[5][6] Which liberal economics department at a major university predicted the 2007 economic downturn and made a public announcement beforehand? Is the correct answer none of them did? Are many Austrian economists predicting an extremely serious economic downturn? Are there respected financial analysts (often from the Austrian school) with strong track records predicting an extremely serious US economic downturn?[7]
Does Conservapedia have a worldwide audience? Is English fluency common in the world? Are most Christian conservatives outside the Western World (see: Global Christianity)? Are conditions often difficult in developing countries where many Christian conservatives live and would survival skills be useful to these people?
Are you saying that the devout Christians who witnessed the fall of the Roman Empire were not Christian conservatives? Are you saying that the devout Christians who witnessed the fall of the Soviet Union and experienced significant hardship were not Christian conservatives (when the fall of the Soviet Union occurred some people could not get their insulin, etc. etc.)?
Would the people of New Orleans who experienced Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath have been better of if they had some survival skills or were they better off relying on big government? Were the 13 people of the 2014 NY State blizzard who were stranded on the NY State thruway who died better off relying on the liberal Cuomo administration's judgment on when the thruways should be kept open and not shut down for safety reasons or would they have been better off having some survival skills and preparation (weather radio, arctic sleeping bad in their car trunk, etc. etc.)?
Could survival skills have been helpful to the people who died in the Ferguson riots?
If one person read about some survival skills from a Conservapedia article and saved their life as a result, would it have been worth it? :)
There is more in heaven and earth, Wschact, than is dreamt of in your liberal, urbanite/suburban philosophy. :)
"Be prepared." - USA Boy Scout Motto
"But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come." - The Apostle Paul
The 4 Gs: God, gold, guns and a getaway plan! Conservative 23:17, 12 January 2015 (EST)
will the users of the conservative account continue to not use the show preview button? Will Karajou and Andy continue to ignore user requests with comment? Will the users of the conservative account continue to berate other users for having multiple people using one account? Will the users of the conservative account continue to pretend that Karajou and Andy actually speak to them? -RalphWi 00:14, 13 January 2015 (EST)
The users of the User: Conservative have never pesterfested anyone at CP! A user of the User: Conservative account got RobSmith banned for pesterfesting among other sins. If he hadn't pesterfested, he might still be an Admin.
Will the liberal, urbanite/suburban, pesterfester Wsachat be next to get the axe or will he take the hint and stop pesterfesting TheAmericanRedoubt? A user of the User: Conservative account knows that some of Wschat's pesterfesting is ideologically driven and uncalled for. In addition, his liberalism and ignorance of history/economics driven disdain for TheAmericanRedoubt (which inspired his "mountain man" cultural/economics myopia) caused him to have a less than a cooperative spirit. This must change and will not be tolerated. Conservative 00:32, 13 January 2015 (EST)
Just what is pesterfesting, anyway? When User:RobSmith was an Admin, CP was in the top 50,000 websites and moving up - today it's in the toilet. User:RobSmith today is an admin on site that allows some diverse and varying opinions - or at least pretends to have policies and processes to deal with abuse (like the egregious policy abuse of pesterfestering). Together with a handful (fewer than a half dozen) of un-likemindful editors, that site has gone from nothing (read: nothing) to a top 7500 website globally. OscarO 22:55, 17 May 2015 (EDT)

Quality over speed

I realize that TheAmericanRedoubt has a lot of energy and wants to add a lot of material to Conservapedia. However, we value quality over speed. For example, today we have a brand new article CETME‎. It appeared nine minutes after TAR's edit to a different article. If I understand correctly, this article is a 45 word cut and paste from the "Survivor Blog" (according to footnote 1). The article then has a See also section and Further reading section to two of James Wesley Rawles books. The new article gives the overall impression that if you want to know about a Spanish manufacturer of army rifles, Rawles is the expert. I find that difficult to believe.

Dear User:Wschact, you may find that hard to believe, because you haven't read those books. I have read at least 15 minutes per day of his SurvivalBlog articles daily for about 6 years. That's more than 500 hours more of reading of just his Survival Blog which contains a LOT of firearms articles. I read/listen to about 1.5 hours a day from about 5 other firearms and survival blogs/podcasts. I can safely say that he, Jack Spirko and Boston T. Party are indeed respected firearms people. Have you read those two books? I have, several times for the 2009 one. Mr. Rawles is indeed an "expert" on them, as much as anyone else I have read writing generally about firearms. I will add additional material at a later date from Boston T. Party's Boston's Gun Bible.
I think we have a 90/10 issue here and I am starting to spend as much time defending my edits/articles as I am making edits.
I have been working on these offline in MS Word as you suggested and pasting them onto CP. You asked me to do that rather than write it online as lots of drafts. There is not a lot to say about these things unless you are a "gut nut" like me. I am writing them for a basic audience like a new gun owner, not a highly technical one and not with huge amounts of extraneous details like Wikipedia. The gentleman "doth protest too much, methinks" TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)

I would suggest that an editor should take more than 11 minutes to write a new CP article.

See above response. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)

When I write an article, I look for two or more independent, reliable sources.

I did and do. Have you read my sources? I have. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)

I then write the article using my own words because I don't want Conservapedia to necessarily or inadvertently adopt some other person's views as its own.

No, they will adopt your views. I am relying on words from respected sources with permission. Would you like to e-mail him yourself to verify the permission? TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)
Perhaps you should look for newspaper or magazine articles about CETME. Wschact 05:31, 7 January 2015 (EST)

James Rawles' views on CETME are irrelevant, because there is no indication that he has given thought or study to this topic.

I don't think you are qualified to make such a statement and are showing your bias now. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)
With utmost respect, the topic is a Spanish gun manufacturer. Mr. Rawles may know a few of the products, but what does he know about the overall company and its history, structure, capabilities and ownership? How many CETME‎ factories did he visit or employees did he interview? Wschact 05:31, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Further, when Rawles writes about some CETME products, it is incidental to his writing about survivalism and any article based on his writings will over-emphasize the relationship between those products and survivalism.

Or not. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)

If I were to write an article about a company, I would include where the company is located, how it got started and its subsequent history, its products and how those products have been received in the market place. Ownership and structure can also be important.

Not for this article. Maybe for IBM, or Microsoft, but not CETME. I think you should go talk to a qualified "gun guy"TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)
I accept that a computer enthusiast would write about IBM or Microsoft and that a gun enthusiast will write about CETME. But a good article about any company would contain the items I listed above. Look at the Wikipedia article covering the Ithaca Gun Company. It was probably written by a gun enthusiast, but it covered the company. Could you please write articles like that when you start articles about companies? Wschact 05:38, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Writing a CP article takes more than 11 minutes and takes a bit of thought about the article's subject.

I spend more time than that. Ibid TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)

This is because CP's audience is different than the audience of the Survivor Blog, and a good author should ask himself "What would a CP user want to know about this subject?"

I do. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Time is better spent producing 10 articles of a decent length, than creating 100 snippets as articles.

Your opinion. There are thousands of very short one sentence place holder articles on CP. They serve a valid useful purpose. I have now spent more time defending my edits then is interesting for me. So I will continue doing what I am doing in terms of topics and current quality of work and time spent unless I am told to do otherwise by User:Aschlafly‎, User:Karajou, User:Conservative. Until I hear from admins telling me to stop what I have been working diligently on and that they consider it not useful to CP objectives and not fitting the CP audience of conservatives, who are generally not hoplophobic as I begin to wonder if you are perhaps certain liberal editors here. But until then, "I'll stick to my guns" -- pun intended. :-)
I am not biased against CETME. I am suggesting that if you want to write about CETME, you do an adequate job of it. If you don't think it is worthwhile to write about CETME, then don't wikilink to it in your other articles. Wschact 05:31, 7 January 2015 (EST)

I hope this helps. Thanks, Wschact 03:46, 7 January 2015 (EST)

You advice before on CP unwritten policy was helpful. This not so much. Thank you anyway. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:25, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Time is better spent producing 10 articles of a decent length, than creating 100 snippets as articles. I hope this helps. Thanks, Wschact 03:46, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Again, your opinion. If I do what you want then User:AlanE will be upset at so many red links. Please see the myriad useful 1 paragraph articles I CP, many of which I have learned from. I will get back to 90-10 rule actual work now. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:25, 7 January 2015 (EST)
AlanE has clarified his message further here. Wschact 15:29, 7 January 2015 (EST)
I have the same concern with the article G3. It also appears to be a 30 word quotation from Rawles, but the quotation marks are missing. It appeared 5 minutes after TAR's last edit to CETME. Isn't there a good source other than Rawles about this NATO battle rifle? Why was this article not entitled "Heckler and Koch G3"? (For a list of other meanings of G3, visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G3) Thanks, Wschact 04:01, 7 January 2015 (EST)
The gentleman "doth protest too much, methinks" TheAmericanRedoubt 04:16, 7 January 2015 (EST)
By the way, please look at the history of the G3 article which I didn't create... And you will see I improved it. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:27, 7 January 2015 (EST)
On Internet forums at this point, we have seen the word popcorn :-) Which by the way, Popcorn is a 24 word article. TheAmericanRedoubt 04:28, 7 January 2015 (EST)
Correct, the G3 article did exist before, but you overwrote the meager prior contents replacing it with a new version based on a 30 word quote from SurvivalBlog.
I have a concern with the article 7.62x51mm NATO. Why was this article not entitled "7.62x51mm NATO rifle"? Again the quote should be in quotation marks. I think that when User:Conservative gave you a 2500 length guideline, he did not have in mind that most of the article would be See also, External references and Bibliography. When User:AlanE was discussing red links, I think that he thought that the red links would be eliminated by writing sound articles, not one sentence articles. Perhaps we should ask him for clarification. Cheers.Wschact 05:18, 7 January 2015 (EST)
Micromanagement. Cheers? You must be British? TheAmericanRedoubt 05:28, 7 January 2015 (EST)

If you go to the most popular search engines (Google, Yahoo, Bing, AOL, Duck Duck Go, etc.) and query various topics, you will see in the top 10 search results decent size articles and not stub articles. Why? Because website visitors like more informative articles and not stub articles. The search engines are giving people what they want. If they didn't give people what they want, they would be out of business.

When the liberal LA Times gave a review of Conservapedia in its beginning stage, the reporter pointed out that Wikipedia had a lot more articles. So some Conservapedians went on a binge of creating stub articles. I was against this. Stub entries are fine for a dictionary, but not for an encyclopedia. And as I pointed out above, the public prefers more informative articles and not stub articles.

As far as Monday Night quarterbacking of articles in terms of the talk pages, if reasonable objections are raised, that is fine. But if it is largely a matter of liberal bellyaching due to their sacred cows being tipped over, then the author/authors of articles should not be obligated to engage in wheel spinning due to unreasonable liberal opponents of the articles. Conservative 08:01, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Thank you, Cons. One problem is that we patrol edits, and red flags should go up if there is a pattern of edits which raise reasonable objections. I agree that we are here to better serve our readers and to attract new readers. We are not under pressure to create one sentence articles. We developed our style manual because we are collectively being judged by our readers, who do not know who wrote which article. So, it is up to the patrolers to keep training all editors and push everyone toward compliance with Conservapedia's standards.
Perhaps Conservapedia needs to establish a two-part strategy of recruiting more editors and then having a formal mentoring program to greet and train them when the new editors arrive. Thanks, Wschact 11:08, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Window of opportunity for editing seems to be closing. What's going on?

The past 5 days while attempting to contribute additional information on the series of articles I have contributed on the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonicals of the Bible I have been startled and dismayed that the window of opportunity to make additional edits has been shortened.

Up to that point I have been able to begin at 08:30 and normally found the cut-off time for editing has been 02:30. Then, when I attempted to page preview about 8 hours work, believing that I would be able to further refine the text, the message that "you are not permitted" appeared about 22:35, 4 hours earlier than what had been normal (and which I had come to expect). I was able to return to the edit page I had been working on and leave it alone all night long until after 08:30, then continued editing it and finally submit it. It had taken a long time to complete. I'm glad it hasn't been altered.

I continued Monday 5th January with a brief period of editing to provide additional information to Book of Wisdom and successfully submitted it. But when I continued with Book of Sirach on Tuesday, the cut-off time was unexpectedly earlier at 18:35 hrs, 8 hours earlier than had been normal. So I returned to the edit page as it was and left it alone overnight until this morning with the computer still on. I copied it, then went to today's page, logged in, and replaced its text with the saved edit text pasted onto the page, and this was successful. Then I worked on it some more, adding some useful documentary links and then laboriously copied by hand, keyboarding from a book in the public domain two "Prologues" to the Book of Sirach, one of which is not available online (which is in an antique family Bible on display in my living room), and when I clicked "Preview", the message "you are not permitted" came up, and it was a real unexpected shock. This was at about 11:48 hours, almost 15 hours earlier than what had been usual. In attempting to printout the text I had edited (without using the "copy" tools feature) I lost about 2 hours work. I got some of it saved that way, but the majority of it was now lost, and I shall have to reconstruct it again later, if I can.

Is this circumstantial, because of the holiday season?, perhaps because most of the administrators are taking a break?,
or is it because of cold weather issues with internet and web hardware interlinkages?

It is curious in the context of the above that I was able to successfully preview this query without getting the "you are not permitted" message.

So, What's going on here? Please let me know. I wish you well. Pax vobis --Dataclarifier 13:57, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Contact the owner of the website at User talk:Aschlafly and briefly as possible explain the situation. In addition, ask for night editing rights. Conservative 22:03, 7 January 2015 (EST)
Thanks, Conservative! I left a brief note with Andrew Schlafly, with convenient link back to this entry. Appreciate your recommendation for request night editing rights. Pax vobis. --Dataclarifier 11:20, 9 January 2015 (EST)

Glossary categories

Conservapedia is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. There are a number of new categories being created such as: Category:Firearms Glossary‎, Category:Preparedness Glossary‎ and Category:Military Glossary‎ which would be better combined with Category:Firearms, Category:Survivalism and Category:Military‎ respectively. It is not clear why any particular article would be in the Firearms category or its Glossary counterpart. I wanted to get the views of other editors before I combine them. Thanks, Wschact 06:31, 8 January 2015 (EST)

Response to Wschact's Monday Night Quarterbacking

What Wschact said: (see also Category_talk:Firearms_Glossary) "Conservapedia is an encyclopedia not a dictionary. Therefore it makes sense to have only one set of categories. All of the articles that would be placed in the "Firearms Glossary" category should be placed in the "Firearms" category. Thanks, Wschact 06:25, 8 January 2015 (EST)"

My final response: Dear Wschact, I strongly disagree about the Categories I have created. Based on these words of support for my Firearms-Preparedness project from User:Conservative: User_talk:TheAmericanRedoubt#User:Conservative_OK_on_the_Addition_of_Preparedness.2FSurvivalism_and_Gun_Articles_on_CP, I will be creating literally hundreds of articles on the the topic of firearms over the next few months. More than 50 in the next 2 weeks. And MANY of them will appropriately be initially short topics that will categorized under Category:Firearms Glossary versus the broader Category:Firearms. Otherwise Category:Firearms will over time become too large like the Category:History.

These short articles will include items such as recoil compensators, half-cock, headspace, IMR powder, wildcat cartridge, out-of-battery, zero-in, internal ballistics, length of pull, muzzle brake, percussion cap, trunnion, Picatinny rail, varmint rifle, pump-action, lever-action, action (firearms), safety (firearms), trigger (firearms), hammer (firearms), stock (firearms), forearm (firearms), match grade, rate of fire, Red dot sight, sabot, sawed-off shotgun, semi-wadcutter, short-barreled rifle, slamfire, hangfire, spitzer bullet, swage, telescoping stock, hammer bite, slide bite, slide (firearms), frame (firearms), receiver (firearms), etc, etc. to name a few.

I have put a lot of thought and energy into this project to attract a different audience of conservatives to our beloved Conservapedia. I first learned of Conservapedia from a hyperlink from James Wesley Rawles. And his popular website (The_Survival_Blog#Strong_Advocate_of_Conservapedia_over_Wikipedia) with more than 80 million unique visits since July 2005 and more than 320,000 unique visits per week is very happy to more frequently link to us where possible, doing his best to avoid what frequently calls the "LiberalPropagandaPedia.

Wschact, regarding the rather long See Also's I created a few thousand edits ago when I was new to Conservapedia editing, please allow me to shorten them for you by creating collapsible bottom of page Navigation Bar templates. Please see: Template_talk:Firearms_topics] and Template_talk:Internet_security_topics, etc.

v • d • e
Firearms
Firearms
Ammunition
Broader Issues
v • d • e
Preparedness
Major Topics
Relocation


Wschact, perhaps you would please consider working on creating some new content yourself or on editing existing articles in a field in which you are "subject matter expert" rather than constantly nit-picking the guns, preparedness and computer security fields. Did you notice I didn't say Ayurvedic medicine or Traditional Chinese medicine. I have put those alternative medicine projects which so upset you on hold for a bit in order to wait and see what the CP Admins have to say or not say.

Wschact, if you kindly would let me focus and get back to lots of editing of the areas in which I have a good amount of knowledge and maybe you could then review my edits in 30 days and I will have a more open mind to your suggestions which at this point are not very constructive.

I think I will go back to the Conservapedia:Guidelines#90.2F10_Rule rather than pay to much attention to "squeaky wheel" noisy liberal and/or RINO liberal style critics here. Not to suggest that you are either of those since I don't know anything about you except for what you write here.

I will not be responding as often to your very frequent comments since it is beginning to take up an inordinate amount of time diplomatically answering then and justifying them compared to Conservapedia:Guidelines#90.2F10_Rule.

I will quote User:Conservative to answer your continued attempted micro-management of so many of my contributions: "As far as Monday Night quarterbacking of articles in terms of the talk pages, if reasonable objections are raised, that is fine. But if it is largely a matter of liberal bellyaching due to their sacred cows being tipped over, then the author/authors of articles should not be obligated to engage in wheel spinning due to unreasonable liberal opponents of the articles. Conservative 08:01, 7 January 2015 (EST)"

This will be the last I shall write to you on these matters. Again, I repeat, the gentleman "doth protest too much, methinks".

Why don't you please live the gun stuff to the "gun nuts". :-)

Good day. TheAmericanRedoubt 07:35, 8 January 2015 (EST)

This is a collaborative effort to write an encyclopedia as a group. We are writing a fair and factually accurate encyclopedia as a team. Our writing level is targeted to the reading skills and background of a high school age student. While we make a sincere effort not to step on each others toes, we work together and any of us is free to correct each other. Such changes are not to be taken as a personal affont, but rather as a good faith effort to improve the product. To the extent that I and other people have commented on TAR's contributions by name, this was in an effort to mentor a newcomer who still has a lot to learn about Conservapedia's writing style.
It is too easy to dismiss valid criticism as "noisy liberal and/or RINO" comments. Anyone can see that the criticism has been about a lack of content or inaccurate content rather than the content being insufficiently liberal and/or RINO. It is impossible condemn criticism here as "micromanagement" because Conservapedia strives for accuracy and consistency. Some mistakes are small, but if repeated enough times can create big problems.
We cannot stop editors from creating short articles, but we hope that the short stub articles will grow into more comprehensive ones. If you believe that an article will never grow beyond a short definition, then do not create a separate article for that subject. Instead, consider creating a single article entitled "Firmarm terminology" or "Firearm glossary".
Our goal is not "to attract a different audience of conservatives to our beloved Conservapedia." Our goal is to attract the general public here and to provide them with the best possible content. If the content is good, then they will return and we will get more traffic. We also have a goal of attracting more editors, so using pejorative terms like "gun nuts" does not help on that front. We ask that when someone does join our editing team, they check their biases at the door but retain common sense in making this group effort a success. I will welcome the comments of other people on whether we want separate glossary categories. Thanks, Wschact 07:56, 8 January 2015 (EST)

The Liberals smear campaign Won -- I now retire from editing Conservapedia

I must say that the liberal smear campaign and relentless edits/deletions from 5 very loud CP liberal trolls / RINOs (besides the vociferous User:Wschact, you know who you are and will be happy to know you have won) has been no fun. I am sad to say, it is much worse edit wars and liberal reverts than anything I contributed over the years to Wikipedia. Sorry User:Aschlafly, User:Conservative and User:Jpatt, but I have lost the enthusiasm to continue contributing to CP in the face of this much liberal opposition. Thank you 3 for what you do for the conservative movement. I strongly suspect that the frequent sock puppet hacker-vandalist accounts were User:Wschact or one his friends using a VPN since all the vandals edits were directed to things he was revert warring with me over. God bless. TheAmericanRedoubt 02:26, 9 January 2015 (EST)

User:Wschact's Stubborn Hounding: 72% of his edits over a period of 24 days are about my work out of 179 edits, 129 concern my edits

Between December 16 and January 8, out of 179 edits made by Wschact, 129 concern either Wschact rapidly changing my edits soon after I complete them / reverting them or complaining to the Community/Admins about my contributions. That is to say, 72% of his edits over a period of 24 days are about my work. That is a good example of being tenaciously hounded by strong opposition. Source: http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Wschact

I didn't really want to put this part about Wschact on CP Talk pages or Community Portal since I don't want to further alienate him from me or make him more dogged in his pursuit of editing/patrolling/trolling my contributions. But his recent remarks to my "Retirement" posting, made me decide to mention these 72% statistics and to come out of "retirement". TheAmericanRedoubt 19:42, 9 January 2015 (EST)

Inspired by Karajou and User:Conservative to Not Retire due to User:Wschact' Dogged Hounding

Dear Admins Karajou and Conservative

My biggest concern, that finally temporarily "took the wind out of my sails" and prompted me to temporarily retire as a contributor, is Wschact, who makes my Conservapedia contributions the subject of 72% of his edits over a 24 day period, as I will show below.

My biggest concern isn't SamHB who explained himself well here:http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SamHB#.22Troll.22_Editing_by_User:SamHB_of_Numerous_articles_I_am_Working_on_.2F_Editing_.2F_Contributing, saying that "I promised that I would revert your things only once, and I mean it."

Nor is my concern AlanE's presumptuously slanderous race baiting comment here: I first said to AlanE: "Please better to stop the "Revert War" (unless it is by an American CP administrator) and instead make comments and suggestions on this talk page for editing the material. "Free state" is a big topic in the American Conservative, Libertarian and Christian circles. The old meaning of Antebellum south is rarely used except among historians. I would be willing to move some of it to an essay, however, the majority of it matches conservative values. Please discuss in a civil way without using words like hideous, offensive, etc like User:SamHB used for the previous revert." TheAmericanRedoubt 02:57, 17 December 2014 (EST)

Alan rudely Ad hominem responded to me: "Excuse the following...but I am cross, and Sam is I know to be a reasonable and intelligent man - and a friend.... Obviously I can't win against someone who probably sits at his computer for hours on end with an assault rifle beside him with one eye out the window just hoping that some one who is black or jewish or liberal will put a foot onto his property so that he can shoot them. What larks!! (Pip old chap)). I won't go on because I see you are like those I occasionally met in the old days in Outback pubs who felt naked without their firearms and were usually relieved of their ammunition before the publican would serve them a beer. Cheers mate." AlanE 04:06, 17 December 2014 (EST)" Source: http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Free_state I decided to simply ignore AlanE since that was the last I heard of him.

What finally temporarily took the remaining "wind out of my sails" is Wschact’s almost month-long dogged efforts: I assert that between December 16 and January 8, out of 179 edits made by Wschact, 129 concern either Wschact rapidly changing my edits soon after I complete them / reverting them or complaining to the Community/Admins about my contributions. That is to say, 72% of his edits over a period of 24 days are about my work. That is a good example of being tenaciously hounded by strong opposition. Source: http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Wschact

Here http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Desk/Miscellany#Interpretation_of_copyright_policy Wschact doesn't even know the difference between 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge/ammunition and a "7.62x51mm NATO rifle" and hence wrongly insisting that the Admins move 7.62x51mm NATO to "7.62x51mm NATO rifle". And the so-called copyright issues he brings are been handled by MLA citations/references/bibliography and fair use.

I made more than 1000+ small edits on CP for several months before contributing much of anything original to be sure that I got a feel for the actual format, content, categories, see also's, stubs or lack of stubs, politics, guidelines, etc. I also wanted to make sure that my edits proved to the CP admins that I am sincere and trustworthy, not a troll or parodist. Then in late November when my sabbatical began I begin much more extensive CP contributions. That was when on December 16 I can on the Wschact radar scope.

I was asked by one JoeyJ (http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:TheAmericanRedoubt&oldid=1130110#Orphaned_Pages) to deorphan pages which I then began to do. But the edits I make to de-ophan them by adding them appropriately to a See Also or a wiki link within the article were getting frequently deleted by Wschact. This happened a lot. He would keep saying I am violating the CP policy.

Over the next few months while I am taking a sabbatical from my work, I have a lot of time/energy/knowledge to contribute to CP generating new content. Alas, at the moment I am feeling too harassed by their constant rapid nit-picking and having to 10/90 Talk Page explain my every step versus doing 90/10 actual article work. I've never experienced this before in an online Wiki or forum community, I am sad to say. Even on Wikipedia, I would get at least a few days to a week to perfect a short article or a contribution to one before the liberal vultures would swoop in to eat it up (if they did even). Because CP is a much smaller community of editors, they give me no time to improve upon my work before they come in and revert/delete. It's truly demoralizing/intimidating for a new editor. I don't know what else to say. I feel CP is an amazing voice for our American conservative movement, but I didn't know it would have so many fast-moving critics/deleters/reverters against anything I contribute in the realm of firearms or survivalism/preparedness articles. Yet they were against much on complementary medicine and amateur radio as well.

It's funny, the ONLY contributions of mine that the liberal/RINO editors didn't touch were the Buddhist articles. I think that is because most liberals like Buddhism. Although Catholic, I formally studied comparative religions and CP's Buddhist and Hindu articles are very slim at the moment, so I have much to add there as well. But again, at the moment, I am becoming "gun shy" with their liberal/RINO sights all aimed at me now, especially on http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Community_Portal.


Persistence is a virtue, as Calvin Coolidge said:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

Thank you for listening. Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated.

TheAmericanRedoubt 19:42, 9 January 2015 (EST)

Your sheer volume of edits has the liberals worried. Since they can't take CP down, they need to force out productive members. Improving CP is against their interests. Every edit is a poke in their eye. Stay the course and keep on trucking. Good work!--Jpatt 22:52, 9 January 2015 (EST)
Roger that User:Jpatt! The encouraging words are sincerely appreciated. My sails now have full wind in them again and I added a backup generator just in case so I can stay the course amidst the gusty liberal winds that try to sink the ship. I feel supported now in adding lots of firearms articles. TheAmericanRedoubt 23:25, 9 January 2015 (EST)
Lock and load! And keep your powder dry and don't let the liberals rain on it. :) If SamHB behaves rudely, tell Karajou and he will straighten him out. Conservative 00:10, 10 January 2015 (EST)
What is this? A mixed metaphor competition? And Cons. If you are going to invoke Oliver Cromwell, it's load and lock. (I struggled against the thought that you might be going off half cocked.) AlanE 00:56, 10 January 2015 (EST)
This thread seems to be in two places; here, and in TAR's talk page.
JPatt: You have always been fair-minded in your dealings with me, but I think you are falling into a rhetorical trap in your comments above about liberals:
Your sheer volume of edits has the liberals worried. Since they can't take CP down, they need to force out productive members. Improving CP is against their interests. Every edit is a poke in their eye.
The rhetorical trap is conflating anyone who disagrees with oneself as a "liberal". It is a very common fallacy here at CP. What you said about liberals may well be true, but the context suggests that you are applying it to the 5 people that TAR is complaining about. (I assume the 5 are myself, Wschact, AugustO, PhilH, and AlanE.) I don't think the things you said above about liberals apply to all of us. We are not forcing out productive members; in fact, I have just been forced out, complete with extremely explicit block threats (above and below) by Cons. Improving CP is not, and has never been, against my interests.
I believe that abhorrence of treason is a very conservative value. I abhor treason, and I take accusations that my home state is treasonous and unconstitutional very seriously. Yet this accusation has been put back in, and there is nothing I can do about it except leave. My rude language was because of that abhorrence.
I believe that CP's presentation on relativity is in good condition, so no further editing on my part will be necessary. I will leave now. SamHB 13:44, 10 January 2015 (EST)
Some material here, being about SamHB personally, and various disagreements with him personally, has been moved to his talk page, User_talk:SamHB#Material_moved_from_the_Community_Portal. It is not relevant to Conservapedia generally. As the person who initiated the use of this page to discuss matters of general interest to the Conservapedia community, I feel a certain responsibility to keep the discussions on topic. SamHB 14:22, 11 January 2015 (EST)

Interesting article

While researching this topic, I came across an interesting article from the Chicago Tribune from 2011 at http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-11/health/ct-met-nccam-overview-20111211_1_cancer-treatment-alternative-medicine-breast-cancer-researcher

In traditional/folk medicine there is a strain of thought based on practicality and treatments working for families/communities/societies over a long time. On the other hand, there is another strain based on New Age impractical ideas and other impractical ideas.
In Western medicine, there is a problem with greed/fraud and the strength of marketing campaigns/market position (industry leaders with name recognition and a strong brand are hard to combat) winning the day instead of an objective cost/benefit analysis. Plus, the case of Ignaz Semmelweis (he proposed that doctors wash their hands due to its beneficial effects and was met by fierce opposition) shows that errant tradition (we have always done it this way) rather than objective criteria does happen within Western medicine. Conservative 01:30, 11 January 2015 (EST)

Subject matter expert in electromagnetism

I notice the recent creation of the Lenz's Law page. This really isn't encyclopedic—people aren't going to come away with the feeling that CP is a source of good information on the topic. I think there may be a connection with the Meissner effect and with "eddy currents". Does anyone know about this?

Is there someone with the knowledge, expertise, wherewithal, and motivation who can put together a good explanation? I think it would make fascinating reading if done well. SamHB 00:14, 13 January 2015 (EST)

Response to User:Conservative's January 13 question

[I struck out my Jan 5 sentence above before Cons left his Jan 13 posting immediately above.] Conservapedia faces a number of challenges in attracting readers and maintaining viability (and beyond that thriving). On the one hand, Cons is correct that there have been some vandals and "parodists" like Markman who have wasted our time and chased some valuable editors away. On the other hand, bad writing, inconsistent format, and other technical glitches undermine our credibility and discourage readers from returning. So, what we need (and what I have done) is to work here for years on cleaning up after vandals as well improving the writing quality and consistency of style. Of course I have also added a ton of content. If Cons wants to identify "enemies of Conservapedia", he should be equally on the lookout for vandals, parodists and poor writing that does not meet our style guide. I agree that generally people should not hover over or smother other editors while they are working. I am giving TAR more space to learn. Yet, because this wiki is a group collaboration, I expect people to come along and edit what I wrote last week, and everyone else here expects that I will edit what they wrote. The best of the public will produce a coherent whole from the collaboration. (By the way, I do not have any "distain" for TAR and respect his wide variety of interests and background.) Thanks, Wschact 01:01, 13 January 2015 (EST)

Three points: 1) TheAmericanRedoubt said some of your edits related to his were helpful. But the sheer volume of them were uncalled for. 2) Your "mountain man" comment reeks of disdain. There is no hiding it. Best to admit it and move on. The same liberal elitist attitude could be said of your absolutist stance against traditional medicine given that many people of modest means throughout the world depend on it and common things like turmeric/ginger have been scientifically shown to benefit people medicinally without toxic side effects (I recognize traditional medicine has its problems, but so does Western medicine so good judgement needs to be used by consumers. Conservatives believe in giving adult consumers choices. It ultimately comes down to a cost/benefit/toxicity/"willingness to risk" decision. Japanese consumers, who tend to be more health conscious than many cultures, use highly advanced Western medicine and often use traditional medicine too and there life expectancy is 5 years longer than Americans). 3) Some of your reversions were ideologically based and uncalled for. One way or another, this is going to stop. Conservative 01:21, 13 January 2015 (EST)
Wschact, it's not your job to edit out conservatism, which is what I and other people here have seen you doing. VargasMilan 01:24, 13 January 2015 (EST)
Cons: I withdrew the comment at 22:34 12 January so let's move on. Let's wait for Andy to decide the medicine question or whether Conservapedia embraces a Dystopia vision. Vargas: I would never intentionally "edit out conservatism". Perhaps we have different ideas of what good writing requires. I take item #5 of Conservapedia:How Conservapedia Differs from Wikipedia seriously: "We encourage conciseness here, like a true encyclopedia. Wikipedia implicitly encourages (through its use of stubs) long-winded, verbose entries, making it difficult to recognize the essential facts." Thanks, Wschact 01:48, 13 January 2015 (EST)
Wschact sometimes (not always) has an arrogant attitude hidden under a veneer of politeness. If something falls out of his area of expertise and he is against it, well it has to be reverted. I demonstrated above that his knowledge of economic history and economics is quite limited. In addition, he has a disdain for those outside of cities/suburbia or he never would have used the term "mountain man". I am not saying he cannot change his attitude, but there is definitely a problem. Conservative 01:58, 13 January 2015 (EST)
Preparedness is not synonymous with dystopian. People can have sizable amounts of precious metals in their portfolios for example, but still own stocks. You can have an emergency kit in your car without thinking that sooner or later you are going to get into a very serious accident. You are setting up a false dichotomy. In addition, it is possible for an encyclopedia to cover survivalism in an objective manner. Conservative 02:06, 13 January 2015 (EST)
With due respect, the statement in question, which I withdrew hours ago was, "I am not an expert in living as a mountain man in a post-civilization world." It was a statement of self-depreciation and modesty in recognition of my own limitations, not one of arrogance. I do not want to plan for a post-civilization dystopia but rather I want conservative principles applied to American society. I and other conservatives believe in America and its ability to overcome any challenge. A small faction is trying to bet against American society surviving and to profit from its downfall. I sense that you agree with my side of this bet, and you agree that my remarks about dystopia were not directed toward preparedness. (The Scout motto is "Be Prepared.") Let's move on. Thanks, Wschact 02:18, 13 January 2015 (EST)
The alternative/traditional medicine decision has already been decided. I suggested that TheAmericanRedoubt compromise by not adding ayurvedic medicine content and he is amenable to this. Second, I already know beforehand that your acts of illegitimate behavior towards TheAmericanRedoubt will cease one way or another. I am hoping that things are done in the most harmonious way possible. Hopefully, you take the hint and act in a more productive manner. Conservative 02:37, 13 January 2015 (EST)

If memory serves, and it may not, I have the impression from your main page talk comments that you are a liberal/moderate. And VargasMilan indicated that you are attempting to edit out conservatism from Conservapedia. I said my piece. I am also willing to move on. I don't believe in holding grudges. Conservative 02:46, 13 January 2015 (EST)

One other matter: Not all Conservapedians are American. Admin Joaquin is Mexican for example. And Conservapedia has content that covers areas outside of the USA. Conservative 03:01, 13 January 2015 (EST)
We agree on non-American conservatives, and we agree that Survivalism can be covered objectively on Conservapedia. The reason I focused on the American context above is that society in some foreign countries have indeed collapsed, but that America is exceptional and we should not bet on an American collapse. Also, although I may be more moderate than some people, I am certainly not a liberal. Perhaps some of my libertarian views might create that mis-impression. Thanks, Wschact 03:09, 13 January 2015 (EST)
Not hoping for America to collapse and it has a lot of tangible/intangible assets. And even after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia did not turn into a third world nation. Second, no doubt many dominant players on the world stage who collapsed thought they were exceptional before they fell. Success followed by complacency is a common human failing. Conservative 03:26, 13 January 2015 (EST)

Temporary 7 Day Ban: WShact again removing Conservative POV material from Survival/Firearm Related Articles

Dear User:Jpatt and User:Karajou, I would appreciate your help on addressing Wshact issue again this since User:Conservative told me to talk to you since he is temporarily busy on off-Wiki related business. Thank you again.

Instead of contributing new material, I again have had to spend significant time restoring the diverse conservative point of view topics/materials that WShact continues to remove/delete/subtly edit out from Category:Survivalism and firearms, Second Amendment related articles. The Survival Blog articles in particular took 30 minutes to restore material deleted by Wshact from his numerous small edits (so they couldn't be easily reverted). I had to spend time removing Wshact's biased (and improperly formatted resulting in a reference error) source/ref from a biased competing commercial website rather than unbiased actual Alexa site reference. http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:The_Survival_Blog#WShact_again_removing_Conservative_POV_material_from_Survival.2FFirearm_Related_Articles TheAmericanRedoubt 06:47, 13 January 2015 (EST)

In re-reviewing Wschact's continued harassment of Survivalism-Prepper-Firearms articles under the guise of making lots of small improvements to the article (which cannot be easily reverted). I realized Wshact, under the guise of reorganizing the article and putting it in the active voice instead of passive voice, has again deleted significant conservative point of view content. It was to hard to continue trying to restore the vandalized article. Thus I had to restore my original version of the article.

Dealing with this whole affair of continued harassment has just cost me 1 hour of my time that I had budgeted to spend contributing new firearms content.

In response to Wshact's continued harassment despite repeated warnings, I am temporarily banning him for 7 days. Admins who have been involved in correcting Wshact's aggressive behavior, please correct the ban time if appropriate. TheAmericanRedoubt 07:11, 13 January 2015 (EST)

My comments

From what I have seen so far, user Wschact has taken it upon himself to follow TAR on this site, either in removing material previously posted or taking actual control of particular pages away from him. This raises a serious problem as to the subject of collaboration between individuals - which has been stated by Wschact several times that that is what his intention is. What I am seeing instead is a typical tactic used in Wikipedia when an editor takes over someone else's project, then blames the original editor for being uncooperative; tells the the original editor that he cannot "own" the page, but takes control of the page away from him in such a manner that he is the new "owner" of it. That is a tactic which has no business within this website, and it is not going to be tolerated here.

So, what will happen is this: persons who originate/create pages will be allowed to finish them, unmolested. Anyone else who wishes to contribute to the page concerned will ask the creator of the page first; or leave pertinent, additional information on the talk page; or do nothing more than simple grammar/spell check. Karajou 08:44, 13 January 2015 (EST)

The points above have nothing to do with the content of "TAR"'s contributions, he is just disrupting the very structure of this wiki. If you have a bull on speed in a china-shop, it doesn't matter much whether he is well-meaning or malevolent.
--AugustO 10:18, 13 January 2015 (EST)
After some thought, I am rescinding the above. It prevents people from openly cooperating in a voluntary manner, and that's what I'd rather have. Karajou 08:20, 14 January 2015 (EST)

I contacted TheAmericanRedoubt about the red link situation

Two things:

1. He is going to be lighter on the red links, but not completely stop. It would require a lot of extra work for him to completely stop.

2. He is going to be a long term editor so the red links will be filled in. He isn't counting on others to fill in the links.

I think this is a reasonable compromise. Conservative 14:15, 14 January 2015 (EST)

TheAmericanRedoubt's Red Link Response During Phone Call with User:Conservative
Thank you User:Conservapedia for your phone call with me and for your inspiring and unwavering dedication both to Conservapedia and to our conservative movement. I agree with both of these points. Over the next 12 months I promise to completely fill in at least 95% of my red links with actual full fledged detailed articles or at least 2 to 3 paragraph shorter articles only in the cases where a long article is not useful and would be like Wikipedia style excessively detailed unnecessary verbosity. TheAmericanRedoubt 14:22, 14 January 2015 (EST)

Category tag compromise and TheAmericanRedoubt

I will agree that TheAmericanRedoubt has been overdoing the category tags. For example, for "police state" he would put a category tag of "internet". Yes, a police state attempts to control the "internet", but that is not how someone would look up an article on "police state".

I told TheAmericanRedoubt to pretend he was playing the game show "Family Feud" with Richard Dawson where people try to come up with a word/phrase that matches a topic/word. Now if he was on that game show and said "Internet" for the topic "Police state" he would lose in that game show every time. The user TheAmericanRedoubt (TAR) saw my point and is going to do his category tags differently from now on.

And although I am not a Wikipedia fan, I said as far as the category tags, pretend you are creating a Wikipedia article in most cases.

My request to other editors, please do not be persnickety with TheAmericanRedoubt about the category tags. He promised to do better on the category tags and now sees how he has been overdoing it. Conservative 13:38, 14 January 2015 (EST)

TheAmericanRedoubt's Category Response During Phone Call with User:Conservative

I agree on the police state article and quite a few others. Thank you for the mentoring User:Conservative and User:Karajou. Although I too am not a fan of Wikipedia, as far as the category tags, I will comparatively look at similar articles in Wikipedia to see how many category tags they are using for a given article. User:Conservative and I discussed on the phone the Category:Firearms and I told him I will still be using/creating "granular" categories, similar to how Wikipedia does it. For example, today I just created the categories:
Category:Bolt-action Rifles to match my newly created article Bolt-action which contains new red links that I promise to fill in for all of these new shorter articles on firearms such as action (firearms), bolt (firearms), breech (firearms), barrel (firearms), bolt handle, cheek weld, stock, trigger (firearms), round (firearms), chamber (firearms), magazine (firearms) firing pin, shell (firearms), accuracy (firearms), reliability (firearms), action (firearms).
Over the next 12 months, I will be creating an article for each of the major bolt-action rifles in the firearms industry such as the Remington Model 700, Savage Model 110, Ruger American Rifle (hunting rifle), Ruger M77, Ruger Gunsite Scout, Steyr Scout, scout rifle, Barrett M99 .50 BMG, M24 Sniper Weapon System and M40 rifle (sniper rifle), Mosin-Nagant, Winchester Model 70, Mauser, Mauser M 98, M1903 Springfield, Lee-Enfield, to name just a few. Now you can see how I really am a gun enthusiast. :-)
http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Category:Bolt-action_Rifles&curid=133817&action=history
Category:Firearms Components - In both of these new categories, I will be creating numerous articles over the next 12 months, so other editors removing the Category tag or the internal Wiki link brackets from any existing articles in the Category:Firearms or Category:Survivalism (like bolt-action) is just creating lots of unnecessary additional work for me in the near future to have to go back and re-add the categorization and Wiki link brackets and will thus "orphan" my new articles which would have been well integrated into the Wiki link system. Some, but not all of these articles will be part of the new category Category:Firearms Glossary, Category:Military Glossary, Category:Preparedness Glossary. http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Category:Firearm_Actions&curid=133818&action=history
Fellow editors: Thank you, in advance, for your patience and following of the guidance from User:Conservative regarding his advice to not be overly "persnickety" / fastidious about my work in this area. I appreciate it. I promise that over the next 12 months I will re-adjust my categorizations on most of the articles I have edited to be similar to the granularity level seen on Wikipedia. This is quite "granular" however. As I discussed on the phone with User:Conservative, it doesn't mean I will be having each article I edit/contribute having only 1 or 2 categories. As evidenced by the James Wesley Rawles or The Survival Blog articles, some articles may have many valid, yet granular categorizations.
TheAmericanRedoubt 14:31, 14 January 2015 (EST)
On numerous occasions, it has been pointed out that the user:conservative account is accessed by a number of different people. Yet you state that you were in contact with only one person - I told him I will still be using/creating "granular" categories, similar to how Wikipedia does it - Are you saying that the user:conseravtive account is in fact only accessed by one person? And that person is male? Your post concerning your phone-call contradicts many of the claims that the user:conservative account has made... EJamesW 15:07, 14 January 2015 (EST)
In the phone call in question, TAR was told that User: Conservative account consists of more than one editor. Feel free to confirm this matter with TAR (In addition, you can ask Karajou who was informed of this matter also).
Second, given the existence of voice changing software and an editor of the User: Conservative account possibly speaking through an agent/friend/family member/etc., the User: Conservative account remains veiled under a fog of mystery. :) Conservative 15:40, 14 January 2015 (EST)
ROTFL. :-) When I first talked with the User:Conservative, despite the male voice, due to the sound I suspected the voice did seem a little like it was going through some sort of voice distortion box. The User:Conservative wouldn't tell me his/her name since he/she said he/she is part of a Conservative group of users and that the current speaker is merely the vocal representative of the diverse members of that secretive group. Despite talking with the User:Conservative, I wasn't able to pierce the veil of secrecy and hence am not able to resolve User:AugustO's and User:EJamesW's pressing concerns. TheAmericanRedoubt 16:48, 14 January 2015 (EST)

A voice distortion box

--AugustO 15:51, 14 January 2015 (EST)

Category:Nuclear Target Structures

Can someone please tell me how France - or the Attack on Pearl Harbor - belong in this category? Can someone please tell me what sense it make to wait for User:TheAmericanRedoubt to put every article with the slightest connection to nuclear power (or perhaps the letter "N") into this category? --AugustO 16:07, 15 January 2015 (EST)

There are any objections to dropping this category? Today, the main threats are to terrrorism targets rather than Soviet intercontinental missiles. So, there is a danger that if we put undue emphasis on Cold War threats, home schooled high school students will over-react. Categories are short hand and do not properly communicate the subtle dimensions for evaluating the "Nuclear Target Structures" designation. I do not object to a stand-alone article on this topic. Wschact 23:11, 7 February 2015 (EST)

Obama says the newspaper exercised bad judgment and brought this upon themselves.

User:TheAmericanRedoubt writes in his Essay:France Pays Dearly - Liberal Gun Control Laws and Gun Free Zones that Welcome Terrorists on Charlie Hebdo that "Obama says the newspaper exercised bad judgment and brought this upon themselves". User:EJamesW asked for a citation for this claim, I did so too. Unfortunately, User:TheAmericanRedoubt hasn't shared his sources with us yet - and I haven't found any source stating something similar...

If President Obama really said something along this lines, it should make the front-page of Conservapedia!

--AugustO 15:21, 15 January 2015 (EST)

The arrogant and highly atheistic/secular French and French muslim situation is a volatile mix. The French atheist/muslim situation will probably get worse before it better. There seems to be a feedback loop of discrimination/hatred/violence/non-assimilation going on.[8]
The Ireland/Italian muslim situation seems a lot less volatile. I think the Irish/Italians (who tend to be more religious) are nicer and less arrogant then the atheistic/secularists French.[9] And Ireland's Muslims are more highly educated.[10]
In addition, judging from his radio mini-debates with theists, the Irish atheist Michael Nugent seems nicer and less abrasive than many prominent atheists/agnostics (see: Atheism and arrogance). Research shows that atheists are more charitable when they are around Christians/Christian culture.[11] Maybe atheist become nicer when they are around theists/Christians as well. Conservative 07:29, 17 January 2015 (EST)
All interesting observations, but they have nothing to do with the problem: Please give a source for the claim that Obama says the newspaper exercised bad judgment and brought this upon themselves. Do you anything about this, User:Conservative? --AugustO 08:28, 17 January 2015 (EST)
If TAR did indeed say this, I think he made a mistake. At the same time, Obama is pretty fanatical about not calling Islamic terrorists Muslims. And Islam does have one of the most violent pasts in terms of various religions.

The secular/godless and evolution loving countries of Germany/France/UK who have sub-fertility rates are projected to be overrun by Muslims by 2030.[12]

I do know that a German Christian denomination that adheres to creationism is growing.

I think this is due to businesses having labor shortages and needing workers and the respective countries immigration policies and the countries wanting to support pensioners, but I could be mistaken.

In Switzerland, which is one of the most biblical creation loving countries of Europe and has more restrictive immigration policies, the proliferation of problem causing Muslims by 2030 is not projected to be an issue. Ireland does not appear to be projected to have a problem either (Perhaps it is because they are more religious than most Europe. The fertility rate of Ireland is 2.01 births per woman).

Of course, the projections of Muslims overrunning Germany/UK/France has the militant evolutionists/atheists/agnostics/secularists upset. For example, Richard Dawkins frequently mentions Muslims on his Twitter feed. If only these countries were more Christianity/creationism loving and had more children. All this unpleasantness with radical Muslims causing significant problems in their countries could be avoided.

On December 23, 2012, Professor Eric Kaufmann who teaches at Birbeck College, University of London wrote:

“I argue that 97% of the world's population growth is taking place in the developing world, where 95% of people are religious.

On the other hand, the secular West and East Asia has very low fertility and a rapidly aging population. The demographic disparity between the religious, growing global South and the aging, secular global North will peak around 2050. In the coming decades, the developed world's demand for workers to pay its pensions and work in its service sector will soar alongside the booming supply of young people in the third world. Ergo, we can expect significant immigration to the secular West which will import religious revival on the back of ethnic change. In addition, those with religious beliefs tend to have higher birth rates than the secular population, with fundamentalists having far larger families. The epicentre of these trends will be in immigration gateway cities like New York (a third white), Amsterdam (half Dutch), Los Angeles (28% white), and London, 45% white British."[13]

Of course, this all bad news for evolutionists/atheists/agnostics. I am hoping that theological conservative and biblical Christianity ultimately prevails in Europe in the 21st century. A lot is dependent on evangelism and policies regarding immigration. Conservative 14:13, 17 January 2015 (EST)

In addition, in Switzerland, they have generous gun laws and a gun culture (and low gun fatality rates), so citizens are better able to protect themselves against radical muslims. They are not so dependent on police/SWAT response times. Conservative 14:25, 17 January 2015 (EST)

Spamming links to external sites

"Spamming links to external sites" once was a blockable offense. So, what is Conservapedia's current policy regarding the new User:OGSMEDIA (get it: OGS Media) advertising the site http://offgridsurvival.com/, where all kinds of outdoor equipment is advertised and sold? (See: http://offgridsurvival.com/store/ ) --AugustO 04:17, 16 January 2015 (EST)

Hottest year ever!

The drive-by media does this "hottest-year ever" hooey almost every year, although this year they seem to be laying it on especially thick. The most accurate available temperature record is the UAH data based on satellite readings.[14] By this standard, 2014 was only the seventh warmest year on record. (1998 was the warmest.) It will be months before the surface temperature record for 2014 is complete. NASA is just guesstimating at this point. PeterKa 06:00, 17 January 2015 (EST)

Here is the global temperature record since 1979 based on satellite data. In the last 35 years, the Earth has warmed by 0.2 C. PeterKa 06:21, 18 January 2015 (EST)

Template:Outdated

When I peruse Special:Random, I often encounter articles displaying information which is quite out of date (e.g, Stewart Bradley or Anne Arundel County, MD). Sometimes I'm able to update it, but at other times, it isn't in my field of special knowledge (or interest). I hope that I haven't overstepped my bounds, but

  1. I created the Category:Outdated Articles for such pages
  2. I made the Template:Outdated: this will put a small warning on top of a page and put the page in the category. See Anne Arundel County, MD for an example.

I'd appreciate if someone would check the template and approve of it. Thanks --AugustO 08:25, 18 January 2015 (EST)

User: TheAmericanRedoubt

I received some communication from TheAmericanRedoubt (TAR). He is tackling an off wiki project right now. I believe he will be editing later this year. That is all the information I have right now. Conservative 11:56, 4 February 2015 (EST)

  • It's not the first time that User:TheAmericanRedoubt took off for a considerable amount of time: after making hundreds of edits until mid-July 2014, he seized editing for three months.
  • I hope no one expects us to cope with eye-sores like Preparedness (Conservapedia's article with the most categories) for the next three months!
  • I won't comb through the articles to which User:TheAmericanRedoubt contributed, but should I encounter something like this, e.g., via Special:Random, I will take action.
  • Thanks for unblocking User:Wschact!
--AugustO 14:53, 4 February 2015 (EST)
I think we would all be in a better position to make decisions about what to do with TAR's material if we knew his actual intent. We're all relieved, of course, that the "Ayurvedic medicine", "Vata", "Dosha", "Kapha" stuff has been removed, but it would be good to make a decision about a few other things. I'm sure we're all in agreement that water doesn't really have a noteworthy relationship with survivalism. But there are many other irrelevant categories and "see also"'s that need to be addressed, as well as the implication that Andy's, Cons's, and my home states are treasonous.
So I would suggest that we get TAR to tells us his intentions directly, rather than taking the word of someone who is known to have peculiar fantasies about his alter egos. I fully believe that Cons and TAR are different people, but it would be good if TAR were able to communicate other than through Cons. It's a little too much like Clark Kent's uncanny ability to summon Superman.
@TAR: I realize you may be busy with other things, but it should be possible for you to post a really quick note without getting distracted. If you don't want to communicate in this public forum, could you please send me an email at sam4557@gmail.com?
SamHB 22:42, 4 February 2015 (EST)
Sometimes volunteers "bite off more than they can chew". This happens a lot, because the higher priorities of life obligations get in the way of a volunteer's best intentions. That is why projects like Conservapedia are team efforts -- so that others can pick up the slack when any volunteer has to step back. TAR volunteered to take existing content from certain sources and to convert it into the proper form for Conservapedia articles. 1) Some of his conversions needed more work on the Manual of Style front. 2) Some of his anticipated article subjects are red links, but TAR has not have a chance to bring over the content to actually write the article. 3) TAR made red links for a number of essays, which have not yet been written or adapted from the other website. 4) TAR started a large number of new categories before he appreciated the tree structure of categories and those categories need to be repositioned corrected. I estimate that it would take about a year of full time work to complete TAR's ambitious plan.
Since TAR is unavailable for a while, the entire team needs to work out a plan for addressing all four areas. While I am stepping back to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding, I would encourage the team to create a check list of items that need to be addressed. Once the plan is mapped out and approved, I would volunteer to do my share, if that was the consensus. Thanks, Wschact 23:28, 4 February 2015 (EST)

What I don't want to happen

I believe that 3 of the primary reasons why TAR rubbed Wschact the wrong way and caused him to act inappropriately in some ways (both myself and VargasMilan believe this happened):

1. Alternative medicine issue - This issue has been resolved for the time being. Personally, I think that both Western World medicine and alternative medicine both have a lot of quackery within them and that an evidence based approach is best (there has been a lot of medical science fraud in recent years [15][16]). To a certain extent, Billy Bones in the classic work Treasure Island was right: Doctors is all swabs, Jim! The Japanese, who live longer/healthier than the people who live in many countries of the Western World, use both systems of health care.

2. Survivalism - One of the reasons why I think this rubs Wsacht (who is a liberal) the wrong way is that much of the recent popularity of survivalism within some quarters of conservatism/libertarianism has the assumption that the economic system fashioned by liberals is economically unsound/unsustainable.

The claim of the unsoundness of liberal economics usually focuses on these factors: High amounts of sovereign debt in the world (The USA has 17 trillion dollars of federal government debt, etc. etc.), the failure of Keynesian economics, money that is not backed by a hard asset(s) (Gold or a basket of commodities), high amounts of money printing, the Soviet empire and various Latin American countries having their economies collapsing due to communism/socialism, etc., etc. I really think this irritates Wsacht.

Personally, I would first point out that liberal economists by in large did not predict the 2007/2008 crisis. Second, given the 2007/2008 crisis and the fact that some of the factors that caused it have never been resolved, I think the best approach is to follow the advice given by financial planners and have AT LEAST 6 months of wages saved up in some fashion where the wealth is readily available.

Also, some people believe that another 1930s like depression or worse is around the corner so they would advise having much more saved up and to take other measures such as growing your own food and storing food, etc. etc. I guess time will tell, but this is not impossible. The Western World and the world at large has gone through some periods of economic/political instability from time to time.

For the record, TAR takes the view of hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

3. His staunch Pro Second Ammendment views.

I have asked Karajou to make sure that Wsacht does not mess with TAR's material and create a lot of unnecessary, extra work for TAR due to Wsacht disagreeing with TARs political/economic views. I don't think CP liberals should dictate the ideology at CP so it conforms with liberalism. Conservative 15:31, 5 February 2015 (EST)

Thank you for sharing your concerns in an open candid way, and I will respond with equal candor.
1. We are close to agreement here, but minor editing is necessary to bring some articles up to Manual of Style standards and the category tree structure needs repair.
2. If Cons or TAR want to write essays expressing personal views on survivalism or giving advice, I will defend their right to do so. Similarly, if we take a team approach to writing objective, consensus articles on survivalism, Conservapedia will benefit as well. The conservative movement has a wide spectrum of view as do the survivalists. There are some survivalists who advocate immediate action due to the imminent collapse of Western civilization. Some of these advocate succession of "Cascadia" from the United States, and others advocate an separate all-white nation in the Pacific Northwest. Those views are beyond accepted conservative thought, because conservatives seek to improve society and the social order rather than to destroy it. Articles discussing preparedness for natural disasters or emergencies would help Conservapedia. I assume that they would comply with current Conservapedia policy that does not allow for advertisements or how-to manual articles. So, I think we are very close to an agreement here.
3. The Second Amendment has been a part of the Constitution for 200 years, and I have not seen anyone on Conservapedia attack it. However, materials added to existing articles should be relevant, well-sourced and comply with the Manual of Style. One does not advocate for the Second Amendment by adding a category to every page on Conservapedia. If the person covered by a biography article favors gun rights, then add a sentence to the article preferably with a footnote. Same holds for gun rights opponents. If an article is about a brand of rifle, put "rifle" in the title. If the article is about just ammunition, make that clear as well. If TAR wants to write an article about a gun company, I suggest he use the Wikipedia article on Ithaca Gun Company as a model. I have no objection to TAR moving over a lot of detailed articles providing reference materials on guns, so long as they are accurate and comply with the Manual of Style. I welcome people writing about things that interest them, including guns.
So, I think we are mostly in agreement. Karajou, Cons and I have all advised TAR to focus on writing longer articles rather than just one or two sentences followed by a lot of "See also" links and category lists. I am not objecting to the subjects TAR has chosen, but rather the way TAR adds "See also" and categories into what appear to me to be unrelated articles. Possibly TAR may see a relationship that I can't, but that means that he should add a sentence or paragraph explaining to the reader those implications and relationships.
I would welcome TAR back with the hope that he can clean up his many edits from December and January. Thanks, Wschact 18:21, 5 February 2015 (EST)
TAR was under the impression that category tags generate a good amount of web traffic to articles. I showed him that the category tags effect on web traffic to articles is negligible. So I think the "Battle of the Category Tags" is pretty much over. Conservative 21:15, 5 February 2015 (EST)
Good news! Wschact 21:20, 5 February 2015 (EST)
Also, a former Aussie admin, PhilipRayment, disagreed with Andy about gun control. If memory serves, and it may not, this may have been the final straw that caused Mr. Rayment to stop editing CP and launch his own wiki. Conservative 21:31, 5 February 2015 (EST)
I believe I am agreement with Andy about gun rights/gun control. I understand that there are a number of spin-off wikis running under Media-Wiki software. So, this raises two questions: 1) What can be done to recruit, train and retain competent editors here? 2) How quickly can we repair our wiki so as to avoid being penalized by search engines for our current profile that could be misinterpreted as a link-farm and also to avoid losing credibility with our readers? Thanks, Wschact 21:46, 5 February 2015 (EST)

Merge candidates

Could someone please help me to work off all the Merge candidates?--JoeyJ 12:42, 5 February 2015 (EST)

Since a proper merger would involve merging the change histories, I believe that only an administrator can do it properly. Am I wrong? Thanks, Wschact 13:28, 5 February 2015 (EST)
You just have to move the content to the other article and then redirect to the article.--JoeyJ 10:25, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Stolen Valor

According to an article "Obama signs new Stolen Valor Act" by Bryant Jordan of Military.com, on Jun 3, 2013 a law called the Stolen Valor Act was signed, "which makes it a federal crime for people to pass themselves off as war heroes by wearing medals they didn't rightfully earn.

"The legislation passed both houses of Congress with overwhelming majorities.
"An earlier version, passed in 2005, was struck down in June 2012 when the Supreme Court ruled that lying about military heroics was constitutionally protected speech unless there was intent to gain some benefit or something of value by fraud."
"The law signed Monday at the White House includes such a provision, making it illegal to make the claims with the intent to obtain money, property or other tangible benefits."

Needless to say, this article indicates that NBC anchorman Brian Williams' false boasts of coming under fire in Iraq are not constitutionally protected free speech.

Perhaps there's a chance that viewers who were misled by Williams' claims and proceeded to watch NBC News because of them can initiate and engage in a class action lawsuit against Williams on that basis. Just a thought. VargasMilan 20:36, 11 February 2015 (EST)

vandal attack

I hope someone with block powers is paying attention. And doesn't have their talk page locked while they go about making numerous edits. SamHB 00:06, 12 February 2015 (EST)

No more stubs

  • Here you can see a list of short articles. Please try to expand them.--JoeyJ 10:26, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Affirming the "username policy"

I raised this concern two months ago, but no user has shown any willingness to comment on this blatant issue, so I will reiterate it once again below. Users have been blocked on nearly a daily basis for having "spam-like formulas" to their username when a Conservapedia username policy is nonexistent. The only advice that the website provides on account creation is a mere suggestion that a username should contain a first name and last initial; nothing is said about having numbers in usernames, or using pseudo identifiers. While there are obvious times when users should be blocked, especially in cases where usernames are blatantly offensive, there are quite a number of users that get blocked that are possibly good-faith editors, like Robbyrain65, who was simply blocked for violation of the nonexistent username policy, or Marci18, who was only blocked-by-association because they had a seemingly similar username to 'Natashia36', who apparently did nothing. In addition, it is only ironic when one of our best users, Conservative, which is obviously neither a first or last name, blocks ProgressiveBrit and tells them to 'pick a more respectable username'. It only produces an appearance of hypocrisy when some of the site's best editors, including Karajou, Conservative, TheAmericanRedoubt, and Aschlafly himself, violate this nonexistent username policy used to block other editors, many of which have not even made a single edit. There should be something tangible on this website that points out what exactly is expected of a username.

-- DanielJackson 20:04, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Two points: 1) The Username policy is not changing unless you convince owner of the website of the benefit of doing this and address any objections he may have. You can contact the owner of the website at: User talk:Aschlafly 2) Sometimes users are banned due to IPs associated with commercial spammers without any reason being given as a block reason. I know I have done this. If we had a more explicit username policy, it would give me more incentive to give block reasons. Conservative 20:45, 13 February 2015 (EST)
I see what you are saying, but the problem I have with your first point is that, unless I'm mistaken there is no username policy. DanielJackson 20:52, 13 February 2015 (EST)
Well, you are correct in that there is no precisely stated policy. Perhaps this is intentional, to prevent people from seeing exactly how close to a violation they can go. But some of the more responsible sysops have lately been giving a block reason in an informal way -- "spam-like formula to user name". Perhaps some of the other sysops could start following that practice. For example, VargasMilan gave that reason in some blocks at 22:42 and 23:13 on Feb. 19. The users involved were "Tights07twig" and "Moatnoodle1". Other users blocked around that time were "Lakiesha32" and "Rachel21". It's not hard to see the formula-like construction -- nonsense words with digits. Why spammers do it that way is a mystery to me. So I think it would be fair to say that, official username policy or not, people desiring to do serious editing would do well not to create such ridiculous names. SamHB 10:54, 21 February 2015 (EST)
Hmmm. Just after I posted the above, "Roadbarge4" came along. Countdown in 3, 2, 1, .... SamHB 10:59, 21 February 2015 (EST)

Ken Ammi account?

Did Ken Ammi of True Free Thinker join Conservapedia or is User:Kenammi who joined February 16th/17th an impostor? VargasMilan 13:58, 17 February 2015 (EST)

Not an imposter. Please see: Conservapedia:Atheism Project - News Updates. Conservative 16:07, 17 February 2015 (EST)
Imposter or not, he deserves a welcome. SamHB 10:56, 21 February 2015 (EST)
The kenammi account account is not going to be used. Conservative 21:22, 23 February 2015 (EST)

Sloppy presentation of block reasons

A recent vandal spree (by user "Drunkard"; it was quite hideous) was brought to an end with a block, as expected. Followed by lots of reverts, of course. But the given block reason was "Silly and/or foul username. Account may be recreated as a first name and last initial". Now the user name was clearly silly and/or foul, and the block was done with account creation disabled. But doesn't the menu for blocking list "vandalism" as a possible reason? If not, it should. And if so, people should make an effort to use the block reason menu properly. There's been a lot of sloppiness in this regard lately. (Though "lack of machismo" hasn't been used for quite a while :-)

We recently had a user (Burke39) blocked for 2 months for "inserting false information". Some of his edits were later reverted by the blocking sysop, some were left alone, and some were praised on that sysop's own talk page. This raises the question: What were the false edits? There's too much stuff for me to track down. But, since he may come back in 2 months, he's going to want to know. Could someone leave a note on his talk page explaining just what it is that he must not do when he comes back? SamHB 19:45, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

I blocked Burke39 and corrected his edits mainly in a group. You can browse my contributions and can usually tell by the description. He also did some odd removals. I am not completely sure that the block doesn't need to be increased somewhat. VargasMilan 19:52, 15 March 2015 (EDT)
OK. I'm not defending him at all, mind you. I'm not going to browse his contributions for the details; I'll completely take your word for it. I'm sure that if I did look around, I'd figure it out. I guess all I wanted was some quick note pointing to the "smoking gun". So he doesn't have to look around and try to figure it out, possibly figuring it out wrong.
If you're not sure the block doesn't need to be increased, you shouldn't. This isn't aimed at you; it's a general comment. There are two types of unsavory characters: people who need to be slapped, and people who need to be permabanned. The latter are clear, of course, and he isn't in that class. But slapping someone with a long but finite block just makes them angry and hostile when they come back. CP is basically treating them like children with these "timeouts". It would be better to treat them like adults who need to be told when they are doing something wrong. Assuming they are adults, they will presumably "get it". If not, well, then you drop the axe.
The preceding paragraph wasn't something I was planning to write; it's just something I've noticed over the last year or so. You gave me a perfect lead in for it. Thank you for understanding. SamHB 20:06, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

Categories, again

What is the reasoning behind putting Hertz, Ampere's law, and many other articles into the categories Category:Amateur Radio, Category : Solar Energy, Category : Wind Energy or Category : Hydroelectric Energy? --AugustO 10:43, 23 March 2015 (EDT)

I noticed the same thing. Looking just at some of the pages that I have been working on lately (AC, DC, current, voltage, etc), there is simply no reason to put these into categories like "wind energy". If one were going to be that exhaustive, one would have to put them into such categories as: wind energy, solar energy, nuclear energy, fossil-fuel energy, hydroelectric energy, geothermal energy, power distribution, piezoelectricity, conductors, insulators, semiconductors, electrostatics, electrodynamics, electromagnetism, electromagnetic radiation, Maxwell's equations, plasma, magnetars, pulsars, coronal mass ejections, vacuum tubes, diodes, transistors, integrated circuits, bipolar transistors, field-effect transistors, Schottky diodes, Zener diodes, computers, laptop computers, deskside computers, mainframe computers, supercomputers, motors, generators, transformers, telephones, radio, television, cell phones, smart phones, etc, etc, etc. I could go on for hours.
All of the things listed above relate to physics or technology in some way. A few categories in those fields are all that are needed. For example, wind energy can be in a few categories like power distribution and electricity. From there one can get to electronics, electrical engineering, and so on, and, if one wants to go into great detail, to related topics like Maxwell's equations, electronics, physics, and the definition of the volt. SamHB 14:10, 23 March 2015 (EDT)
It's the same reasoning that links Leonard Bernstein with electrical wire. It seems they're both conductors. Actually, I think "reasoning" is not the appropriate word. AlanE 23:42, 25 March 2015 (EDT)
I think I've cleaned that up a bit. Though I left a lot of redlinks. Maybe one of our more prolific writers who is interested in music (yes, Cons, that's you) would like to write articles for these people. Or Alan, of course. SamHB 01:24, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
Redlinks gone. Sorry. SamHB 02:09, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
Cons is on record on one of my articles' talk pages decrying articles under 600 words. Perhaps he should do it. TAR however, seems to get away with one-liners regularly. The various protocols don't seem to apply to our free-stater - I reckon he could write a line each on all of them, each complete with 20 see-alsos and any number of categories... within the hour. AlanE 02:04, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
Maybe an article on bestiality and string quartets? SamHB 02:09, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
What, foursomes? It's the trumpeters' doubletonguing I have trouble with.AlanE 02:47, 26 March 2015 (EDT)

While we're on the subject

Cons, seeing as we have got you salivating over music, may I tell you that I have just been out to move our car from the front of the house to its bed for the night and ran slap bang into Renee Fleming singing Marietta's aria from Korngold's "The Dead City" on the car radio. Here t'is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1IzUbFMDGc Lotte Lehmann is my first memory of it - the duet with Richard Tauber recorded in the 1920s, which will be somewhere on YouTube no doubt. {Korngold later fled to America where he composed the soundtracks to various Errol Flynn movies among others and wrote one of the great romantic violin concertos. {Stick with me, babe, and learn.) AlanE 04:04, 26 March 2015 (EDT)

Thanks. Conservative 05:23, 26 March 2015 (EDT)

April Fool's joke

What Israeli coin is worth fifty cents? VargasMilan 22:02, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

Answer: The Haifa dollar. VargasMilan 18:45, 2 April 2015 (EDT)
At least it makes cents. AlanE 23:27, 2 April 2015 (EDT)

SamHB

I think SamHB is sick. He wants to do battle with me instead of misinformation, like you would expect a scientist to do. Why don't we join forces, Sam, and fight distortions in what is understood together? Don't be like Stephen Hawking who says today's physics is too advanced to be subjected to any kind of accounting. VargasMilan 22:54, 12 April 2015 (EDT)

OK, VM. I'll take you at your word that you want to collaborate rather than fight. I won't make the long message that I threatened (on the other page) to make about "relativity, science, personal insults, sycophancy, "mall cop" behavior, etc. etc. etc." It would be a waste of my time to write, and of your time to read. Though we do need to discuss the subject matter. I believe you are badly mistaken in your edit comment (23:45, 11 April) "Why not? It would make it easier for scientists to indoctrinate students to their worldview." But if you no longer hold to that, that's fine with me. We can move on.
I accept your apology for saying what you said here, and for saying, just above, that I am "sick". I will withdraw my "sycophancy" / "spider sense" comment about physics being "subjected to any kind of accounting". I don't know what you were talking about there.
But about relativity, and your edit of 23:45, 11 April, you removed several things of mine, most importantly the statement that scientists do not choose theories knowing that they are wrong, just because the mathematics is easier. The idea that the Newcomb-Hall hypothesis was "disfavored by mathematicians due to its inelegance in integrating" is just all wrong. It's been in the article for years, and I decided it was time for it to go. (If you're not familiar with the Newcomb-Hall hypothesis, please do your homework. It's been written about extensively, mostly by me, for years. The earliest reference I can find is just 56 days after your account was created.) Now there's another problem that I removed and you put back in---that "one of the other explanations" (beside relativity or Newcomb-Hall) involved "factoring in the pull of the other planets". No. The correction from the other planets was already taken into account, before relativity or Newcomb-Hall. That correction is much larger than the "anomalous precession" that is in dispute. I believe the gravitational perturbations are something like 5500 seconds, vs. 43 seconds for the "anomalous" precession. Everyone agrees on the gravitational perturbations.
Now here's the deal: The straight Newtonian calculation is indeed simple. It can be (and was!) solved by Isaac Newton. That's the "elegance in integrating". The gravitational perturbation stuff was messy, but Newton, Lagrange, and Gauss could deal with it. Both relativity and Newcomb-Hall are messy. They can be solved numerically, but not, as far as I know, in closed form. I won't do the relativity stuff; you can look it up. But I did work out the Newcomb-Hall equation earlier today. It is
where is the Newcomb-Hall correction. Something like .000000157.
When this reduces to the classic equation (the one that made Isaac Newton famous) for a planet without precession.
But Newcomb-Hall doesn't work! The correction given above makes Mercury behave correctly, but is wrong for the moon and the other planets. In fact, because of the wrong prediction for the moon, Newcomb-Hall was dropped almost immediately, around the beginning of the 20th century.
The real problem I have with your edit is the claim that the "simple", "elegant" differential equation (straight Newtonian) is favored over Newcomb-Hall because it is easy. This would be a case of adopting a theory that one knows to be wrong. Sort of like the old joke about searching for your keys under the lamp-post because the light is better there, even though it isn't where you dropped them.
Anyone advocating the "elegance in integrating" idea must be taking the position that the anomalous precession simply does not occur, even though it has been known, and accurately measured, for over 150 years.
So I have no idea what "worldview" you are referring to when you say "It would make it easier for scientists to indoctrinate students to their worldview." What worldview is that? One that says that anomalous precession does not occur? Can you name one scientist, textbook, or teacher (beyond junior high school, of course) that holds to such a worldview and tries to indoctrinate students to it?
SamHB 03:05, 16 April 2015 (EDT)
If your justification for the edit was that scientists are above reproach, as was stated in the edit summary, that in itself was grounds for me for rejection of the edit, as alternate explanations are available. I didn't sustain the rejection, however, because I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt that you had further reasons.
But I can't help noticing you are contradicting what Andy said: namely that the calculation of the procession and the factors that supposedly "everybody agrees on" haven't been updated since the 1980s? VargasMilan 07:30, 16 April 2015 (EDT)
I assume the edit, and edit summary, you are referring to was the one to the relativity page, with comment "Scientists don't choose wrong theories over right ones just because the math is easier." By no stretch of the imagination can that be construed to mean that scientists are above reproach. Also, I explained in great detail, above on this page, what the "alternate explanations" were that were given in the existing article. Do you have yet more alternate explanations?
"give you the benefit of the doubt that you had further reasons." --- no, I have no further reasons, beyond what I stated above. Were they not sufficient?
"grounds for me for rejection" and "didn't sustain the rejection" --- you make it sound like an executive vs. legislative issue, where you veto something, and I decide whether to try to override the veto or let it stand, and you can unilaterally "sustain" it if you still disagree. That's not the way Conservapedia works. We collaborate. Sometimes we argue. Respectfully, or course. We try not to use words like "rejection".
"I can't help noticing you are contradicting what Andy said" --- Yes. I am. This is a complicated issue, but it was an open-and-shut case. Or, as Andy likes to put it "two plus two equals four". I need to give you a long explanation of why I sometimes feel justified in reverting Andy. It's a long story. No time for it now; gotta run. But, basically, we trust each other. SamHB 12:56, 17 April 2015 (EDT)
Sorry to leave these questions hanging. I'll be back in a few hours. SamHB 12:58, 17 April 2015 (EDT)
I'm back. Here's the deal on relativity. I recognize that this is Andy's wiki, and that his position stands, even though I totally disagree. If I chose to, I could make edits designed to make him look stupid. But I don't. I want CP's stance on relativity to be expressed as clearly as possible. As such, I collaborate with Andy on making the Theory of relativity, Counterexamples to Relativity, and Essay:Rebuttal to Counterexamples to Relativity articles to be the best that they can be. They are flagship articles. To be the best it can be, the relativity article should not list the gravitational effects of other planets as one of the hypotheses that was put forth to try to explain the anomalous precession, because it's just not true. The gravitational effects were the first thing that was tried. It was the anomalous precession that was left over that caused the problem. Also, the idea that scientists rejected Newcomb-Hall simply because the equation was harder is just wrong. If you want the simple equation, you have to go with plain Newtonian (the delta=0 case above) which means that you posit that the anomalous precession is zero. Which it isn't. Hence my "Scientists don't choose wrong theories over right ones just because the math is easier." edit comment. I believe Andy's current stance on the situation is that neither Newcomb-Hall nor relativity explains the anomalous precession correctly, so the true cause of the precession is unknown. A completely wrong position, but at least stated in an understandable way.
Now, a little more on the subject, that might help you to understand my "I recommend that you not get into a battle over relativity, unless you have really done your homework, which you haven't." comment. The comment was indeed brusque and rude. But I've been deeply involved in this stuff for most of my 8 year tenure here. I believe that there are only 3 active people who know their way around the CP relativity articles in depth: Andy, me, and AugustO. (There have been others in the past, like KSorenson and JacobB, but they're long gone.) When I see someone appear to parrot Andy's position, it gets my spider-sense tingling. I am incredulous that someone else could hold the same view. If you do hold the same view, you should try to explain it in your own words.
Andy does not need you to defend or protect him. He has been taking on all comers for years, and doing a good job of it. And that is what I meant by "doing your homework".
Do I hold myself to be above reproach or scrutiny? Of course not. And I object to the implication that I do. SamHB 22:19, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

Conservapedia Politics Project

Does anyone or any Conservapedians want to launch a Conservapedia: Politics Project which would be featured on the main page?

The project would focus on creating/expanding Conservapedia's articles on liberal/moderate/conservative leaders/politicians and political organizations. In addition, political movements could be covered as well.

The project page would have three sections in terms of articles that need to be created or expanded: a conservative section, a moderate section and a liberal/leftist section. Conservative 13:48, 18 May 2015 (EDT)

I am interested this, but would spend more time building conservative entries than liberal ones!--Andy Schlafly 23:50, 18 May 2015 (EDT)
OK. I created a project page entitled: Conservapedia:Encyclopedia of Conservatism.
Once the page is ready, an announcement can be made on the main page. And if you want to appear on radio, etc. to promote it, that could be helpful.Conservative 05:54, 19 May 2015 (EDT)

to: RobS, do you wish to edit CP again?

RobS,

Would you like to be an editor at Conservapedia again? If so, let me know. I would be more than happy to discuss the matter with other Conservapedians.

I know Andy liked your political content that you created at Conservapedia (articles on communism, etc.) and I believe your politics are closer to the right than the leftist politics favored at the current wiki you edit at.

Next, although I was formerly miffed at you messing around with my User page and User talk page, I really don't hold any animosity towards you. Life is too short to hold grudges. Conservative 20:18, 19 May 2015 (EDT)

Gentlemen, RobS does not have to "crawl back". He created a lot of excellent content about communism and other political subjects. I should have extended this invitation much earlier.
I don't think RobS and I would lock horns again either. The User: Conservative account is going to be focused mainly on creating more atheism content and making some main page edits. For the foreseeable future, except for communicating with VargasMilan2 about footnoting articles, I don't plan on communicating with other editors at this wiki due to other projects I am involved in.
Lastly, I've mellowed. :) Conservative 03:23, 23 May 2015 (EDT)
"RobSmith Created some of Conservapedia's most acclaimed articles, and was a tireless vandal fighter and researcher on the Socialist and Communist agendas." - Quote from the Conservapedia article. Conservative 02:41, 23 May 2015 (EDT)
RobS, last night I watched video series by William S. Lind on cultural Marxism/political correctness in the Western World (William S. Lind on the Origins of Political Correctness, Part 1 and William S. Lind on the Origins of Political Correctness, Part 2). It's primary focus was on the Frankfurt School.
The need for more of your material at CP is definitely there. Political correctness/Marxism may wane in the West just be a political fad and it would be better if it happened sooner rather than later.
RobS, CP's article on Cultural Marxism is merely 3 paragraphs long. If only CP had an expert on Marxism to expand it. "RobSmith Created some of Conservapedia's most acclaimed articles, and was a tireless vandal fighter and researcher on the Socialist and Communist agendas." - Quote from the Conservapedia article.Conservative 16:32, 24 May 2015 (EDT)

Another thing I wanted to mention. Subsequent to Obama coming to power and after some additional exposure to conservative thought though conservatives such as David Horowitz and others, I began to appreciate your work more as far as leftist infiltration into the Western World and the world at large. Conservative 16:42, 24 May 2015 (EDT)

Come on, Cons! I never thought the day would come when I reprimand you (or anyone else) for engaging in (what's the phrase the admins use?) "talk, talk, talk" instead of making substantive edits. But that's what you are doing! Why don't you just lift RobS's block and be done with it? He can make his own decision about what he wants to do. And he's well aware of what's going on—even if he isn't watching this, the folks over at ritionalwaki are watching it and discussing it, and he is part of the discussion.
So, avoid a 90/10 block. Create more articles. There doesn't seem to be an article on "atheism and maple syrup" yet. SamHB 01:27, 25 May 2015 (EDT)
I forget about the block. Thanks. Conservative 06:22, 25 May 2015 (EDT)

SamHB, the editors of the User: Conservative account have an article writing plan that it is implementing as evidenced by the recently published Atheism and intolerance article. See: Conservapedia Atheism Project.

Also, I couldn't find any website called "Ritionalwaki". Is there a Wikipedia article on the website or does it fail to meet Wikipedia's notability standards? :) Conservative 22:10, 25 May 2015 (EDT)

To: RobS/OscarO

Thanks for creating the new Obama content.

I unblocked RobSmith and I can request that Andy give OscarO picture upload rights.

Second, work with me. Create more content and I will work on getting RobSmith Admin rights in order to edit the main page. The same goes for the picture upload rights for OscarO.

In the meantime, I will be working on some matters that will increase the odds that RobSmith will have admin rights in 2016 or sooner.Conservative 05:23, 27 May 2015 (EDT)

I featured the article: Riots during the Obama Administration on the main page. If you haven't done so already, I would add Soros related content to Ferguson section. Conservative 05:50, 27 May 2015 (EDT)
I wrote some message to you at: User talk:OscarO. 19:12, 27 May 2015 (EDT)

New entry

How come my new entry, Qutbism, doesn't show up on Recent Changes? Rob Smith 21:17, 28 May 2015 (EDT)

It looks like it was merely a lag or something else happened. Anyways, there doesn't seem to be a problem with this. Conservative 05:13, 29 May 2015 (EDT)
I saw it there yesterday (my time). Yes ...there t'is...at 04.43 just before Andy's four edits on Maths and the Bible. AlanE 21:38, 29 May 2015 (EDT)
I've never had this happen, and assumed it was just a case of Rob not refreshing his browser. After any edit, I always go to a new tab and select a fresh copy (it's on my toolbar) of "recent changes". And it always shows up. SamHB 22:12, 29 May 2015 (EDT)

The American Redoubt

User:TheAmericanRedoubt has edited Conservapedia two months ago for the last time. Will he be back? What happens to the plethora of red links in the meantime? --AugustO 06:38, 29 May 2015 (EDT)

Last I heard, he was tackling a project and intended to return. I would give him some more months to return. I have no way of contacting him at this point. Conservative 07:37, 29 May 2015 (EDT)
Perhaps you could post his latest communication to you, with email addresses and personal information redacted of course. Then we could all get an idea of just what his intentions are, and the site wouldn't have to stay in a state of redlinks and other undesirable stuff, due to the threat that this absentee might return. If we improve the site, and he doesn't like what we've done, he can come back and argue his case. SamHB 22:21, 29 May 2015 (EDT)
TAR said in February that after he finished a project, he would return to Conservapedia. He also said that it was hard to say when he would finish that project. I am not at liberty to say anything about the project. And since I have no way of contacting TAR, I have no way of finding out when TAR wishes to return to Conservapedia. Conservative 00:20, 30 May 2015 (EDT)
It would have been nice if you could have given us some authentic-looking, albeit redacted, communication.
So this person is on some kind of secret mission, and is holding Conservapedia hostage with all those ridiculous links, and other formatting foolishness, while he's on that mission? No thanks. SamHB 00:39, 30 May 2015 (EDT)
[Comment vaped by Cons, 01:34, 30 May 2015]
Your reply above, that you vaped, is about what I had expected, though I didn't predict the "icewater in Hell" comment. By the way, Andy prefers that you capitalize "Hell". SamHB 02:20, 30 May 2015 (EDT)

I now have a way to contact TAR. I found some contact information. I will contact TAR this week (perhaps as early as tomorrow). Conservative 01:00, 1 June 2015 (EDT)

I left a message with TAR. I will try back later in the day. Conservative 14:59, 1 June 2015 (EDT)
I got in contact with TAR and he is going to start editing Conservapedia again probably sometime in September of 2015.Conservative 22:18, 1 June 2015 (EDT)
It's good to know that, like Clark Kent's uncanny and mysterious ability to contact Superman, you have a secret way to contact TAR. It certainly improves everyone's image of him as a normal person, the kind of person that Conservapedia's editors want to collaborate with. By the way, will he come back early from his secret project, a project which you are "not at liberty to say anything about", if ISIS rejects him? SamHB 21:08, 7 June 2015 (EDT)
Ladies and gentlemen, behold this architechtonic example of...Science...at its fullest. VargasMilan 21:44, 8 June 2015 (EDT)

Request for (temporary) Night Editing Priviledges

In the coming weeks, starting on 12 June and ending 02 July, my working schedule will be such that I will only be able to sign on to Conservapedia from 9 pm-9 am. I want to continue editing the articles in the Astronomy section, as well as beginning a category and creating articles for orbital mechanics and orbit types. If required, I can make agreements to ensure good faith since I haven't been a member for very long.

IHop 15:31, 9 June 2015 (EDT)

Template:Cquote listed in Speedy deletion candidates category??

I don't know what it's doing there (the template hasn't been edited since 2012, so it doesn't and shouldn't have the category invoked by the typical double-bracket code), but if it gets deleted it will mess up a lot of pages. See Category:Speedy deletion candidates. VargasMilan 20:00, 10 June 2015 (EDT)

I don't know how to fix this. I would leave a message on Andy's talk page about this matter.
Also, if you want, you could leave a message on the talk pages of active CP admins to insure the template is not deleted. I say this because the quote template is protected and only admins can delete protected pages. Conservative 20:29, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
Okay, I left the messages. VargasMilan 21:17, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
With a suggestion from AugustO, I fixed the problem. Problem solved. See: http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly#Template:Cquote_problem Conservative 01:58, 11 June 2015 (EDT)

Anonymous threats against me

Cons has just warned me on my talk page that he has received email communications from someone threatening to block my account because I have not been creating enough content, and I need to create substantially more. Aside from the fact that blocking an account is probably not a good way to get more content creation, I believe that I am one of the more active contributors at present. By my count, since late March I made contributions to nearly 90 different non-talk non-Community-Portal pages.

Can anyone shed some light on this? If you want to contact me privately, I'm at sam4557@gmail.com.

On a subject that may or may not be related, I see a comment a little higher on this page, characterizing an edit I made as an "architechtonic example of...Science...at its fullest". It had absolutely nothing to do with science. I was simply ridiculing TAR's apparent wish to be treated as a superhero with a secret identity. Also, Talk:Parrot#No_Credit_Where_Credit_is_Not_Due has a complaint that "SamHB embraces the pseudoscience that leavens science too tightly to be trusted". Anyone who believes that I embrace pseudoscience, or that I "leaven science too tightly to be trusted" (huh?) is urged to explain this belief in detail.

SamHB 02:16, 12 June 2015 (EDT)

How to Archive?

I'd like to archive (part of) my user page and talk page, and I'd like to do it the "right way", preserving edit timestamps and such. Is it possible to do that? I can't find anything in any of the help pages explaining this. Can someone help me? SamHB 22:08, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

I'd help you but now I gotta do nine mainspace edits just for thinkling about. Rob Smith 22:32, 28 June 2015 (EDT)
Thanks, but I've looked around, and it seems that the kind of accurate archiving, preserving edit histories, isn't done here at CP. Maybe the mediawiki extension isn't installed. So I'm just going to do it the brute-force way. For talk pages, edits have time stamps anyway, and for my user page, well, it's my castle.  :-) SamHB 23:36, 28 June 2015 (EDT)

What's next, SCOTUS?

I wake up this morning to learn that something too disgusting to even allude to is now legal in fifty states. Thanks, Supreme Court! So what's next? According to Andrew Sullivan's victory gloat, "the pursuit of happiness promised in the Declaration of Independence has no meaning if it does not include the right to marry the person you love." In other words, married pedophile couples. Gayopia is just around the corner! Either that, or the Lord will strike back with a dreadful disease of some kind. Of course, the Romans were there first. PeterKa 18:13, 28 June 2015 (EDT)

Block of Burke39

I see that User:Burke39's recent 2-month block has just expired. Apparently it was for something he wrote about ephebophilia, or pedophilia, or thelarche, or something; I don't know; I haven't looked at the edits. In any case, after the block expired, he made trivial changes to his signature on earlier edits, and was immediately blocked again. The new block reason said "still obsessed with aberant sex entries. See: 'Talk:Pedophilia'" He may or may not be obsessed, but he did not make any nontrivial edits.

The idea that, after being released from incarceration, one can be incarcerated again for the same offense, is the way the justice system of the Communist Soviet Union worked. It suggests that Burke39 is simply going to be blocked for a week, every week. This doesn't seem right.

SamHB 16:37, 12 July 2015 (EDT)

Being on the left, I am sure you know how the Communist Soviet Union worked. I am also sure you understand that leftist agitators often made unreasonable demands/accusations which you are doing now.
As playful ad-hominems go, I'd give that about a 6. I'd give it a 7, but the Soviet Union dissolved over 25 years ago. You can do better. I'd give you a nice zinger in reply, but I can't think of one just now. Sorry. Leftist agitators? Nice. Unreasonable demands? Well, I don't think Conservapedia should be emulating the Soviet justice system. In fact, we have this concept in the United States justice system commonly called "double jeopardy". It's generally frowned upon; in fact, in our legal system, it's forbidden. Being on the left, I am sure you know how that concept works.
Burke39 was told to lay off the sexual aberrancy topics. VargasMilan and I don't have a lot of confidence in his edits in these topic areas. There are lot of topics outside of sexual aberrancy where he can create articles. How about he create a Clock entry or a Model train entry or a The Trouble with Atheism entry? Conservative 16:57, 12 July 2015 (EDT)
But getting back to the topic at hand, writing about clocks sounds fascinating. I'm surprised (seriously!) that CP doesn't have an article on this topic. I'm going to contact him and see if he's enthusiastic about writing such an article. Not sure about atheism and clocks, though. We will leave that to you, OK?
But you will have to unblock him, right?
SamHB 11:00, 15 July 2015 (EDT)
His block will expire at 13:23 on Sunday. I've been in extensive email conversation with him. He says that he doesn't really know anything interesting or useful to say about clocks or model trains. I agree with him; articles should be written by people are are at enthusiastic about the topic. (By the way, where did you come up with those two topics? He doesn't remember ever expressing an interest in them.)
What he wants to write about are topics related to Freemasonry, Judaism, and antisemitism. From our email exchanges, I think he will do very well in these areas.
SamHB 23:56, 17 July 2015 (EDT)

Trump

This article does a good job of taking Trump apart. The man is a fake, through and through. He supported an immigration amnesty in 2012, abortion in 1999, and was a "good friend" of Hillary as recently as 2008. Boasting about how rich you are rarely goes over well. Too many people find Trump's personality grating for him to be a plausible candidate in the general election.[17] PeterKa 23:41, 13 July 2015 (EDT)

Too many people find Hillary an acceptable candidate. The GOP needs more Trumps do to its spineless modern day leaders. Plus, he seems to have a receptive following at the moment. I for one like when non-politicians take on the political elites. --Jpatt 00:37, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
I think it'll all fall apart in the debates. All he has is nonsense talking points. Is Huckbee running? I always found him pretty sharp. JohnSelway 00:40, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
Trump can be a liberal or a conservative as the mood strikes him; It's just acting. His general election poll numbers are far worse than those of any other major candidate. He is already very well known, so that's not likely to change. In short, a vote for Trump is effectively a vote for Hillary. PeterKa 09:54, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
Nobody can defeat the Clinton Machine (2008). Reagan has no shot at winning. (1980). Your opinion is duly noted but evidence to the contrary exists.--Jpatt 12:39, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
Ah yes, I see a casino/strip club owner, four-time bankruptee, and WWE Hall of Fame inductee riding to our nation's rescue, together with both his ex-wives. When Hillary's opposition researchers are through with him, they'll realize he is clean as a whistle. But seriously, Trump's negatives are off the charts, and most Republican primary voters responded they would never vote for him. "He has a well-deserved and, I would say, an impressive 59 percent," as Krauthammer put it.[18] PeterKa 22:25, 14 July 2015 (EDT)
We get it, you don't like Trump. You forgot to mention Trump is a birther. Krauthammer worked for Mondale, not exactly a trusted conservative source. Trump was immediately dismissed when he entered the race. Trump was trashed by the left and right media for three solid weeks. Would you have predicted 1st place when he entered? Now there is still 18 months before the election. I wouldn't worry so much about one candidate. Instead of the conservative circle firing squad, focus on tearing down the woman who voted for the Iraq war, then turned against, supported traditional marriage, then turned against, supported border enforcement and turned against, supported the Confederate flag and turned against.--Jpatt 22:46, 14 July 2015 (EDT)

Obama and appeasement

With the nuclear deal with Iran, there's a lot of talk of Obama and appeasement. But this analogy makes sense only if you assume the deal will fail. Chamberlain believed that Sudetenland was Hitler's "last territorial demand in Europe" and that Munich brought "peace in our time." He had worthy objectives. One could wish him well and hope for a positive outcome. But a successful Iranian nuclear deal would make the U.S. Iran's ally against Israel. Getting the U.S. to switch sides in the global struggle between democracy and totalitarianism is the point. Chamberlain expected Hitler to keep his end of the bargain, but Obama seems little concerned as to whether or not the Iranians follow any of the agreed restrictions on their nuclear program. PeterKa 11:47, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

This deal is all about Obama, Obama's legacy, his giant ego. Does it have to work? Nah, just like Obamacare doesn't work. It matters not, only that he gets the credit. He was angered by Major Garrett's question on the release of American hostages. How dare he insult his great achievement. He is diligently working on their release from Iranian prison as he goes to vacation at Martha's Vineyard. In Obama we trust. Errr, not so much.--Jpatt 23:00, 15 July 2015 (EDT)
In a way, it's better for Obama if a Republican wins in 2016. If the deal collapses on the Hilebeast's watch, he could be blamed. PeterKa 12:14, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
Hillary is about as inspiring as wet toast. She is even worse than Romney on the inspiring scale. I am not sure she can win, but if she does, her administration will no doubt be corrupt and I doubt she would be an inspiring leader.
With someone like Barack Obama winning two terms, with so many candidates running and with Hillary's scandals deepening in their unseemly revelations, it is extremely hard to predict who will be the next president of the United States. Conservative 21:05, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
I'll predict: Scott Walker. He's way ahead in Iowa.[19] The only other plausible candidates are Jeb Bush and Hillary -- and we need to be optimistic. PeterKa 22:31, 16 July 2015 (EDT)
I'll throw my hat in the prediction ring! I'd say for the Republican ticket it'll be Bush/Rubio (that would really pull the Hispanic vote, which the Republicans desperately need). The big Dem strategy for the future is flip Texas imho, but I don't see a way to do that this time. So probably Clinton/Webb since he's really no threat to her, and that might help them in Virginia and maybe with the military crowd. I seriously doubt the RNC will let Trump run, and if he runs independent the Republicans are sunk. I think this is actually pretty likely too. So I'm guessing a three party ticket featuring Trump/Whoever (I really thought it would be Fiorina to cement the business platform, and that way they wouldn't be left out of the "diversity race," but they've been having words lately so I don't know...), Bush/Rubio (no questions about Florida this time), and Clinton/Webb (maybe O'Malley if Jimbo gets too feisty at the debates). That almost certainly means another Clinton presidency. I guess everybody gets two turns in America...unsigned edit by User:RNozickFan
If Romney had won 71 percent of the Hispanic vote, he still would have lost. If he'd gotten just 4 percent more of the white vote, he would have won. VargasMilan (talk) 00:42, 20 August 2015 (EDT)
That's a good point. I wonder if that spread still makes sense if you only take battleground states into account. In any case I think the GOP is chasing the Hispanic vote as more of a long-term investment. The current population spread in this country has a relatively limited shelf-life.
See "Two out of three Hispanics oppose immigration increase" from yesterday at Breitbart. VargasMilan (talk) 05:24, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
I wonder how much Trump is willing to spend to advance his campaign. It could be Walker's Koch brothers funding vs. Trump's campaign dollars. Hillary and Jeb Bush can probably raise a lot of money too. Perhaps, to a lessor degree, Cruz and Rubio will be able to generate campaign cash (but they are young and can raise name awareness for next time).Conservative 00:50, 17 July 2015 (EDT)

I just thought. A lot of Trump's money is tied up in commercial real estate and businesses. So there is the liquidity issue. So Trump could potentially try to raise money for his campaign. I wonder how easy it is for a billionaire to raise money for a presidential campaign? Conservative 00:58, 17 July 2015 (EDT)

You could be right. I read that he has 302 million in liquid wealth, and I think he's spent close to 2 million. So he could conceivably go awhile, and he's said he's willing to spend up to a billion (which would obviously mean liquidating some assets). I think he really would too.
Yes, there are doubts about how much Trump would really spend on a political campaign. The very rich can also be very frugal.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 00:35, 20 August 2015 (EDT)
Definitely so. Most millionaires live in what we might think of as "middle class" neighborhoods. Nice houses, nice cars, etc. but not extravagant by any stretch. I've seen Trumps house, cars, and jet and I'm not convinced that fits him. Although this is definitely more of a business type decision so he could be really prudent with his funds.

Hillary's poll numbers collapse

As you can see here. Of course, as long as she is unopposed she can still win the nomination. Is it Biden time? P.S. I loved this comment: "The 31 percent who say they think she is honest are lying." PeterKa 09:45, 17 July 2015 (EDT)

Trump is right

Ann Coulter weights in with a magnificent article on rape, immigration, and media denialism. PeterKa 20:22, 27 July 2015 (EDT)

Obama's latest outrage

If comparing the Republican Congressional Caucus to Iranian mobs chanting “death to America” isn’t Obama’s scummiest move yet, it’s got be in the top ten.[20] First of all, the “point” he was making about the Iranian government is moronic. No, Mr. President, totalitarian governments do not have hardline and moderate factions. They have dictators, and the dictator makes the decisions. Orwell explained how this works in 1984. The mobs are doing their “two minutes hate.” They are not an expression of factional rivalry. The regime needs enemies to survive, which is why these deals never work. Obama knows nothing about how the Iranian government works and cares less. Making the Republican/Iranian hardliner comparison is something he has been jonesing to do for months. Yes, nuclear war and the lives of millions are in the balance. But at least we have a chief executive who understands the need to focus on what’s important: Firing cheap shots at the Republicans. PeterKa (talk) 09:04, 6 August 2015 (EDT)

The Jefferson-Jackson Dinners

The Democrats are dropping the Jefferson-Jackson dinners they’ve held since 1945, to be replaced by dinners honoring Truman and "Leadership Blue."[21] These dinners are closely connected the ideology of President Roosevelt. When FDR was elected in 1932, the Democrats didn’t have much in the way of a discernable ideology. One of our finest conservative presidents, Grover Cleveland, was a Democrat. In fact, the party had run a conservative for president as recently as 1924. Al Smith's liberal campaign in 1928 had ended in disaster; FDR was not anxious to follow his example. The New Deal originated as a set of ad hoc emergency measures. When they seemed to work, FDR came up with the ideology of “liberalism” to justify them. Writers were commissioned to explain the new ideology to the American people. In fact, America had always been a liberal nation, or so these writers claimed. Why even Jefferson and Jackson were liberals! This is the origin of the Jefferson-Jackson iconography and the rationale for these dinners. This argument is strictly political, not a serious historical point of view. Jefferson’s signature policy was minimal federal government. Jackson was a gold bug who's administration focused much energy on opposing paper money. (Roosevelt took us off the gold standard.) Modern historians consider Jackson to be the founder of the Democratic Party, not Jefferson. Nowadays, Jackson gets a lot of criticism for his treatment of Indians and for his economic policies. This blog makes a good case that he was our worst president ever.

Ending these dinners is a symbolic burial for FDR-style liberalism. Obama embodies the 1960s radicalism of the New Left. Would FDR, Truman, or JFK even recognize the Church of Gay Marriage and Abortion as their party? PeterKa (talk) 07:02, 16 August 2015 (EDT)

After Thomas Jefferson got elected, on March 4, 1805, he proposed amending the Constitution to allow the federal government to place any surplus revenue it collected in an annual fund to "be applied in time of peace to rivers, canals, roads, arts, manufactures, education, and other great objects within each State." He repeated this proposal on December 2, 1806. Jefferson's proposals as President did not bear out his earlier stated philosophy of minimal government. VargasMilan (talk) 07:48, 16 August 2015 (EDT)
I think you are misinterpreting this proposal. If no action was taken, any surplus would have been deposited into the Bank of the United States and made available for loans. Jefferson was still opposed to the bank at this time. Here is some context for the quote. It's all boasting about how he made the federal government smaller, less intrusive, and sounder financially. Of course, it's true that Jefferson was a man of many contradictions. After the federal government defaulted in November 1814 (a major event in American history that Obama claims never happened), Jefferson turned around on a lot of things. In fact, he basically adopted the Federalist agenda that he had spend so many years condemning. As President Madison (1809-1817) and other top Republicans were his followers, Jefferson ran the country for quite some time after he officially retired in 1809. PeterKa (talk) 14:23, 16 August 2015 (EDT)
National Review has an article on this subject. Pull quote: "Don’t find yourself in the position, ten years from now, of having to say, 'First they came for Andrew Jackson, and I did not speak out, because I didn’t like him.'" PeterKa (talk) 23:55, 10 October 2015 (EDT)

Is this a satire site?

The unsigned edits to this section were made by User:RNozickFan

No offense meant, at all, but I would like to know before posting. Of course, if it is, a truly skilled satirist would never let on! Just checking in with the community!

This is a serious, informative site. I look forward to your substantive edits.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 15:12, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
What a civil and encouraging response from the big man! Thank you sir. However, upon further review of the site, I get the impression that this represents a conservative Christian viewpoint, whereas my own conservativism is a bit more secular libertarian. So perhaps my edits would not be appreciated here. In any case, I appreciate the civility and further encourage your free speech!
Liberals edit this site too. I'd like to learn from your edits and I'm sure others would also. The truth results from the marketplace of ideas, which is what Conservapedia welcomes. Please try some edits and the talk pages are open for any discussion.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 16:42, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
Ah yes! The marketplace of ideas! This was effectively Thomas More's argument for free speech (a good 300 years before the framing of the Constitution! What insight!), and I think you and I might be able to agree on this point. However, this only works if that marketplace remains unregulated! As some users have regulatory power (banning, blocking, etc) the marketplace flows according to those hands that exert force. Additionally, I've combed through the talk pages and seen many instances of users being accused of covert liberalism, sabotage, and a host of unflattering phrases. Again, this is all allowed in the marketplace of ideas but is not reflective of a site that welcomes dissent (the most important kind of free speech!). Perhaps I could test the waters a bit, but I'll be quick to refer to this very conversation if that marketplace starts to feel the touch of the not-quite-invisible hand!
The goal is the truth, and edits in furtherance of that goal are respected. Some liberals don't really want to say or hear the truth, so there are minimal rules to keep the marketplace from being thrown into chaos or overrun by bullies. But our rules permit robust intellectual editing and discussion.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 19:02, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
Well isn't the value of truth that it rings out through the nonsense? Isn't the marketplace supposed to handle that? I would certainly change "liberals" to "people" in that statement, just to catch everybody who deserves it. Sorry to be such a contrarian! As a professional philosopher (more an academic really, but that isn't very romantic) I often catch a debate when only a conversation was thrown.
This is a lot of edits without a single substantive one. How about doing a substantive edit and discussing that, rather than merely debating in the abstract?--Andy Schlafly (talk) 22:09, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
A rather strict definition of "substantive." Isn't all pursuit of the truth substantive? Are we not educating each other through discussion? As I said, I'll consider the kinds of contributions you're talking about, and continue to look out for this "marketplace of ideas" so well-regarded here.

Alleged Parody

Andy, I have rarely visited this site recently and after an exhaustive look at recent changes[22], I am surprised that you and the other admins have missed so much...

Although I strongly disagree with much of the ideology of this encyclopaedia, I believe in free speech and freedom of religion for those who feel the need for it. In fact, I'm impressed that you personally granted me so much privileges after I professed my own views. I think you deserve a conduit for your particular brand of conservative Christianity - unfettered, uncensored and most importantly honest.

Andy, to be blunt, there's a lot of parody on your site and it's increasing. In some cases it's downright embarrassing. I don't think you should trust many of the users that have become active in the last couple of years - especially those you have promoted to have special rights. Take a careful look at their edits.

I'm quite happy to remain a member of this community - in spite of the harassment I've encountered from users such as 'conservative' [[23]]] - it's no big deal. In fact, I'm quite fond of him/her/them.

Be vigilant. EJamesW (talk) 18:39, 23 August 2015 (EDT)

This site is open to the public. Allowing free speech means allowing people to say what they want. Often that results in best of the public, but sometimes it does not. If you have a specific edit in mind, then I'd be happy to look at it. But this site is not going to change its openness and I'm not going to worry about what others say.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2015 (EDT)

EJamesW, you repeatedly badgered User: Conservative concerning motives and made one or more snide comments about the content produced by the account (for example, you wrote: "I can't see any of of articles being taken seriously outside the extremist/fundamentalist christian community"[24] ), but you admitted that the content by the User: Conservative account on atheism is detailed, well-cited and you can't find any errors in it (See: Essay: A British atheist on Conservapedia's atheism articles). Instead of claiming harassment, perhaps you should consider not harassing!

By the way, don't think that User:Conservativedom did not notice that you went into your intellectual bunny hole when confronted about this matter. It was definitely noticed! Conservative (talk) 23:54, 23 August 2015 (EDT)

Cons, give it a rest. We're trying to have an adult conversation here. If you really must continue your "have you ever once shown that an iota of the material posted on atheism by the User: Conservative account is an [sic] error?" nonsense, please go back to EJW's talk page. I'm sure he will see it and deal with it appropriately. SamHB (talk) 01:50, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
EJW, I share your concern, but I have a somewhat different take on the subject. It isn't so much a matter of direct parody (though there is a good bit of that), as material that brings ridicule and disrepute upon Conservapedia.
  • There's a lot of ignorant editing, with no one qualified to check the edits. Several months ago I issued a plea for identifiable "subject matter experts" who could check things. It got nowhere. Now ignorant editing can be expected on an open wiki, and I support the openness. But it can be corrected by knowledgeable people. My attempts to do this are often thwarted by sysops who would rather throw their weight around, because they have the power to do so, than engage in constructive dialog. Some sysops even seem to enjoy stalking, hounding, and bullying me for no discernible reason. On some occasions I have put templates on articles that needed attention (either deleting or rewriting) and had them simply removed.
  • There's a huge amount of incredibly silly editing, that can't help but bring the site into disrepute among all intelligent people. I refer, of course, to the flying kitty / black cat / atheism and lollipops / 20XX is going to be the worst year for XYZ / is XYZ smarter than a bear / operation flying fortress material. No one is going to take seriously any web site that has this stuff. It is a much worse problem than the occasional vandal.
  • There's also material that I disagree with, but I accept that such material is going to exist on this site. So, for example, I immediately stop reading any evolution-related matter as soon as I see a biblical reference. It offends me to see Christianity invoked in the name of scientific ignorance. But that's just me.
  • There's also the subject that I am perhaps most closely associated with—relativity. It doesn't bother me in the least. I like having all the world's relativity denial in one place.
It sounds as though you find all this to be frustrating. I do too. SamHB (talk) 23:43, 23 August 2015 (EDT)
Best of the public means allowing the public to speak freely, and over time the wheat separates from the chaff. It's not a difficult concept and liberals should embrace it more than they do. Pejorative (and silly) terms such as "relativity denial" are no substitute for intellectual debate. I could just as easily call some people "Bible deniers," especially when they cling to anti-Bible theories despite a mountain of counterexamples against the atheistic theories.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 00:14, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
I admit that "relativity denial" is a loaded phrase. But I'm not using it or anything else as a substitute for intellectual debate. I'm quite enjoying our intellectual debates on relativity and E=mc^2. SamHB (talk) 01:50, 24 August 2015 (EDT)
Einstein spent many years working on a "Grand Unified Theory" to replace relativity -- he was the greatest "relativity denier" of them all. Now there are quantum computers that operate on the basis of "ghostly action at a distance." This is a phenomenon that is not possible under relativity, and it is also something Einstein himself argued was a fallacy. PeterKa (talk) 23:33, 27 August 2015 (EDT)

Malicious and destructive edits and blocks

If this is deleted, it will be sent to Andy by email. So he will see it no matter what.

Andy recently wrote on my talk page, in response to my going on "sabbatical" for the length of EJamesW's block,

Sam, this is devastating news about your Sabbatical! Will you be able to make an exception if more evidence is published contrary to the Theory of Relativity? I hope so.
More seriously, many of your edits are appreciated. And thanks for you patience, too.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 23:32, 28 August 2015 (EDT)

Since then there have been a number of incidents of malicious and destructive behavior by a "sysop", that is, what is described in the Conservapedia:Guidelines as an "assistant".

To quote from the Guidelines:

The block function has been devolved to select users who have shown an ability to be trusted. Many of the current Administrators started as one of these Assistants and this status can be considered a way to evaluate users for promotion. As "emergency Sysops", the authority of these users is limited to warning users of policy violations and blocking for blatant vandalism and harassment requiring an immediate response.

This incidents have been:

  • A block of me (rescinded shortly thereafter) for 44 days, for "trolling". I assume the choice of the number 44 was in honor of Presidant Obama.
  • The block of SaulJ, for 5 months, for "trolling". His actual crime seems to have been making edits to the main talk page that sysops found annoying. Remember, If you replied to something, it can't have been "last-wordism" or "talk-talk-talk" in violation of 90/10.
  • The block of MarkLilly, for 2 years, for "Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages".

After blocking MarkLilly, this person reverted many or all of his edits. This was absolutely destructive. If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is. MarkLilly had made a number of improvements to articles on science. Reverting them was destructive to the content of Conservapedia. It was vandalism plain and simple.

Considering only the scientific edits (the field with which I am most familiar):

  • Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis—created. It's basically a stub, but it's better than nothing.
  • Boson—Added the discovery of the Higgs at the LHC in 2012, and noted that the "Z" weak boson is often written with a superscript zero. Reverted, with comment "Mass deletion of troll". It really is written that way, and the Higgs really was dicovered.
  • Gluon—Added information about spin and color charge. Reverted, with comment "Mass deletion of troll". These particles really do have spin and color charge.
  • Pauli exclusion principle—Added information about fermion wave function asymmetry. Reverted, with comment "Mass deletion of troll". Their wave functions really are antisymmetric.
  • Hormone—Added information about Thymulin. Reverted, with comment "Mass deletion of troll".
  • Large Hadron Collider—Added information about Higgs discovery. Reverted, with comment "Mass reversion of troll". The Higgs really was discovered, at the LHC.
  • Automated Teller Machine—created. It's basically a stub, but it's better than nothing. Marked for deletion with comment "stub originated by troll".
  • Schizophrenia—Added information about treatment. Reverted, with comment "Mass reversion of troll".
  • Muon—Added information about discoverer. Reverted, with comment "Mass reversion of troll". Muons really were discovered by Carl Anderson.
  • Navier-Stokes equations—Added information about incompressible flow. Reverted, with comment "Mass reversion of troll"

I know a fair amount about some of the above topics, and the edits were correct.

This person has been "stalking" me for quite some time now. Details on request, but I'm sure you know all about it. Lately his stalking has spilled over onto Ritionalwaki, where he created an account and made further accusations against me. He's been blocked, of course.

If Andy cares about scientific topics, and about my contributions to same, he needs to stop "assistants" from making ridiculous judgments about "trolling" and issuing ridiculous blocks. I can't contribute to scientific articles (relativity or otherwise) in the presence of this kind of behavior.

Let me repeat from the Guidelines:

The block function has been devolved to select users who have shown an ability to be trusted. Many of the current Administrators started as one of these Assistants and this status can be considered a way to evaluate users for promotion. As "emergency Sysops", the authority of these users is limited to warning users of policy violations and blocking for blatant vandalism and harassment requiring an immediate response.

Note that these "assistants" are being "evaluated for promotion", that is, the status is probationary. I submit that the evaluation period should be considered ended for this person, and he should be considered to have failed.

SamHB (talk) 01:48, 17 September 2015 (EDT)

I never read that section of the Guidelines because I didn't realize I was an Administrator. But surely you have better things to do on your Sabbatical than shaming the productive? VargasMilan (talk) 04:54, 17 September 2015 (EDT)

Federal spending under control??

Due to some accounting gimmicks, why yes it seems like it is. Because some spending was delayed until there's a vote on the federal debt ceiling in the near future, the U.S. will seem to have only accrued $340 billion in debt, while the GDP is expected to grow (over last year) by roughly $700 billion this fiscal year (which ends September 30th). And Obama proposed a $500 billion deficit next year, so the annual debt could be less than annual growth again next year too.

Now the kicker response to this fact is going to be, "But from the amount of debt Obama and Congress accrued during the first six years of his administration, at this rate it will take n more years of the same to reduce the debt-to-GDP proportion to what it was at the beginning." I know now what this number is roughly (based on August figures). It might be a good exercise to go to National debt of the United States and learn what that number is yourself, in case you happen to hear someone say on September 30 or afterwards that federal spending is back under control or "not as bad as it seems". VargasMilan (talk) 07:14, 20 September 2015 (EDT)

Nixon responsible for sabotaging the Paris Peace Talks during the 1968 campaign?

This is a recent accusation by a reporter from the mainstream media named Ray Locker. But given the mainstream media's track record with strange theories, I, for one, remain skeptical. His book comes out in October. VargasMilan (talk) 00:33, 26 September 2015 (EDT)

The South Vietnamese people saw the Paris talks as a sell out. Pulling out was hugely popular, a way to sock it to bloodthirsty commies and overbearing Americans at the same time. Rhee had done the same thing to Ike in Korea. I find it hard to believe that a peace treaty was a serious possibility in 1968. The North Vietnamese were not prepared to recognize the legitimacy of Thieu's government until much later. In any case, I assume the war itself would have continued, treaty or no treaty. Johnson was hoping that he could stage a stunt that would help Humphrey win the election. If Nixon sent someone to explain this all to Thieu, I fail to see what the objection might be. PeterKa (talk) 06:02, 27 September 2015 (EDT)
I looked this up in Encyclopedia of the Vietnam War, a standard library reference. It says Chennault recommended that Thieu "object to the last-minute halt of the bombing of North Vietnam and stall on the Paris peace talk." Johnson knew all about it because he had Ambassador Bui Diem's phone bugged. This was just a few days before the 1968 election, so I think it is safe to assume that the supposed breakthrough in the peace talks was so much pre-election politiking by Johnson. Nothing about the current accusations is new. As Ann Coulter says, "liberal lies never die." PeterKa (talk) 21:59, 17 October 2015 (EDT)

Vatican coup?

How is it possible that two conservative popes could be followed by a liberal? This post doesn't have the answer, but it does give you some context. PeterKa (talk) 20:30, 28 September 2015 (EDT)

The Vatican felt they needed to shore up South/Latin America where evangelicalism/pentecostalism is growing fast in many countries. A European Catholic would be a bad choice since Catholicism is on the decline there. So that leaves Asia or Latin/South America or Africa or North America (which is influenced by Latin/South America due to immigration). Ultimately, fear of loss in Latin/South America was stronger than hope of gain in Africa.
Lastly, although there are some more conservative (free market) economies in Latin/South America, most of the countries tilt to the left. And African countries are very often conservative on social issues. In addition, Europe tends to tilt the left and the European cardinals have a lot of votes. Hence, Catholicism wound up with a liberal pope. Conservative (talk) 21:23, 28 September 2015 (EDT)
If somebody thought a liberal pope would help the Catholic Church with American liberals, they need to think again[25] Climate change, climate shmange. What do liberals care about the fate of the Earth? They want gay marriage, gay marriage, and more gay marriage! Colbert told Cruz that Reagan couldn't be nominated by today's Republicans. Let me tell you something, Colbert. The godly gay marriage hating Obama of 2008 couldn't be nominated by today's Democrats.[26] PeterKa (talk) 03:21, 2 October 2015 (EDT)

Food for thought

Any GOP candidate for president who wants to increase immigration—i.e., all of them except Trump—ought to be required to first pass this simple test: Be successfully elected governor of California on a platform of tax cuts and social conservatism. Ann Coulter, Sept. 30. VargasMilan (talk) 03:12, 1 October 2015 (EDT)

Coulter is not giving as much credit to Trump since she said that, saying now that Cruz and Carson have come around to Trump's resolute approach to immigration, but she is apparently still tolerating Trump's often less than conservative positions for now as his supporter out of gratitude for him catalyzing the resolve of so many Republicans. VargasMilan (talk) 12:40, 9 October 2015 (EDT)

More evidence of Obama's treason

Chamberlain was a dupe who had no idea Hitler was about to occupy Prague. Even as Obama was reassuring Congress that Russia would help enforce the Iran deal, he almost certainly knew Putin was planning a game-changing offensive in Syria.[27] PeterKa (talk) 19:18, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

Hello! New User Here!

Hi, I'm Charles Trenton. I'm new to Conservapedia, and I just joined. Where could I find the rules and guides to Conservapedia? Thanks! --CharlesTrenton (talk) 18:34, 6 October 2015 (EDT)

Useful links


Oil under the Golan Heights?

This could be huge.[28][29] PeterKa (talk) 23:00, 10 October 2015 (EDT)

The left is taking a political beating. If only atheists didn't so closely ally themselves with the left!!!!

The New Statesman reported in 2015:

"Across 39 countries in Europe that we analysed parties of the right are in government in 26 of them. Add in the Anglosphere – Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States – and right-wing parties control the legislature in 30 of the 43 countries. This is four more than before the crash....

In the UK research shows that the “millennial generation” has moved to the right of its parents in its attitudes to the economy and the state and its confidence in the welfare state."[30]

If only atheists didn't so closely ally themselves with the left!!!! See: Secular left

And the trends don't look good for atheism in the 21st century. See: Desecularization

2015 is the WORST year in the history of atheism. Conservative (talk) 02:20, 11 October 2015 (EDT)

We've gotta get this picture

Shirtless, horseriding Putin vs bicycle ridding Obama: [31]

Putin agrees with Western conservatives are some issues (homosexuality, etc.), but he is an autocrat (a popular one in Russia) who disagrees with much of the freedoms in the Bill of Rights and political freedom principles in other Western democracies. He also lies and he previously worked for the KGB.
Obama is a wimp and the contrast with Putin helps show this, but I am not a big fan of promoting Putin.
I think Putin is gaining too much traction at this point due to Obama dragging down the strength of the USA (economy, poor foreign relations in many cases, his scandals, lack of working with the Republicans where he could do that, needless stoking of racial division despite his previous claims he would help promote racial harmony, etc.).
And with the price of oil at this time, Putin should be politically losing strength in much of the world, but he seems to be gaining strength in the Middle East, Asia, etc. Conservative (talk) 11:43, 11 October 2015 (EDT)

Colin Powell "trolls Republicans"

If you were seriously worried about global warming, income inequality, gun control, or whatever the liberal cause du jour is, wouldn't you want Republican cooperation on these issues? What kind of person thinks that the highest praise he can bestow on a political figure is that he "trolls Republicans"? A Salon editor, that's who.[32] PeterKa (talk) 19:09, 11 October 2015 (EDT)

TheAmericanRedoubt/TAR

TheAmericanRedoubt (TAR) hasn't made an edit since March 24, 2015. If he hasn't started editing by March 24, 2016, the red links may never be filled in by him. People have good intentions, but sometimes external events intervene or sometimes their priorities change.

I say give him until March 24, 2016 since he did create a lot of content while he was here and the approximate 5 months chunk of time will go by fast.

Also, I don't think category tags are a big deal since about 1% of people ever click on them for a given page. I do realize a category tag battle did ensue during the time of TAR's editing. So if people want to edit some of his category tags in order to make the category tags more hierarchical, I have no problems with that. I think it is the links within the articles that get the bulk of clicks. Conservative (talk) 14:29, 21 October 2015 (EDT)

You wrote:
“ I got in contact with User:TheAmericanRedoubt and he is going to start editing Conservapedia again probably sometime in September of 2015. ”

—Conservative 01:22, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

Aren't you in contact any longer? What's the matter with him? --AugustO (talk) 08:21, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
Last time I communicated with him he was in the midst of a project and wasn't sure when he would be finished. That was months ago. I may be wrong about this matter, but generally speaking, it seems when people are not active at a wiki for 6 months months or longer, they don't return. My guess is that this may apply to all types of volunteers and not just wiki editors.Conservative (talk) 09:39, 28 October 2015 (EDT)

I think the cell phone number I have for TAR is completely different as there is a completely different greeting. His email address is expired. So I believe I have no way to contact TAR. Conservative (talk) 13:19, 28 October 2015 (EDT)

Benghazi

After all the investigation, the basic questions about Benghazi are still unanswered.[33] Why was the ambassador at this notoriously insecure facility on the anniversary on 9/11, when an anniversary attack was widely expected? The attack went on for seven hours, and the White House was warned the attack was imminent a hour in advance. So much time to respond, but no military response. The attack used heavy weapons, so it was immediately obvious that it was planned by a terrorist group in advance.

Who came up with the "spontaneous reaction to a video" story? Was it the same person or persons who decided to stick to that explanation and have UN ambassador Susan Rice repeat the same lie on national television and six times in the president’s speech at the United Nations–even, most chillingly of all, have Secretary of State Hillary Clinton repeat it to Tyrone Woods’ parents over the coffin of their dead son at Andrews Air Force Base, saying she would “make sure the person who made the film is arrested.”[34] Judging from the "clock boy" story, Obama likes nothing better than a good Islamist hoax. Someone appearently concocted the video story well in advance. Was the administration so attached to this story that they sacrificed an ambassador so they could have the opportunity to use it? PeterKa (talk) 22:25, 24 October 2015 (EDT)

It seems that Hillary reversed herself at the recent hearing and testified that she never blamed the attack on the notorious "Innocence of Muslims" video.[35] Good grief! How does this woman keep up with her own lies? PeterKa (talk) 20:13, 25 October 2015 (EDT)
Are you sure? Why would she deny blaming the attack on the video when she is recorded doing so at a public event? I read that not only did she blame the video, but that the origin of that story was traced back to Hillary Clinton. VargasMilan (talk) 07:54, 26 October 2015 (EDT)
“I said some have sought to justify the attack because of the video. I used those words deliberately, not to ascribe a motive to every attacker but as a warning to those across the region that there was no justification for further attacks." (video and write up) This is such a Clintonian answer, a gem of the genre. Some people said some things, and those things may or may not have been partially true. But as for Hillary, she was just commenting on the remarkable things these other people were saying and doing. PeterKa (talk) 16:59, 26 October 2015 (EDT)
I read she was the only reason the video was publicized as associated with the attack in the first place, so it would follow if some justified the attack after the publicization, it would be of necessity caused by her. Nobody would "ascribe" that "motive" to any attacker if not for her actions. VargasMilan (talk) 17:24, 26 October 2015 (EDT)
According to her memoirs, she came up with the idea all by her little old self, using her womanly "common sense": “[The video] was unquestionably inciting the region and triggering protests all over, so it would have been strange not to consider, as days of protests unfolded, that it might have had the same effect here, too. That's just common sense."[36] Why do we need the NSA when we have Hillary's common sense? PeterKa (talk) 19:11, 26 October 2015 (EDT)
Lest anyone think that Benghazi lies are a victimless crime: Nakoula, the guy who uploaded the video, was indeed sent back to prison, just as Hillary promised.[37] PeterKa (talk) 20:08, 26 October 2015 (EDT)

Hillary and the FBI

James Comey, the director of the FBI for the last two years, is a Republican and quite the straight shooter, according this article. Assuming he continues helm the bureau, it's not likely the FBI will cut Hillary any slack as far as the email investigation goes. Comey disagrees with Obama on incarceration, so there is some question as to whether he can stay in the administration. All the same, I'd say its time for Hillary to be lawyering up rather than preparing to move into the West Wing. Biden's announcement that he is not running sounded almost like he was running. Perhaps he was planning to announce, but Obama asked him to hold off at the last minute. We may not have heard the last of him. PeterKa (talk) 06:13, 1 November 2015 (EST)

While we're on HillaryWatch, get a load of the cover of this new book. It's hysterical: My Turn: Hillary Clinton Targets the Presidency. At this point, a few careless emails are all that stands in the way of the rise to power of Muslim Brotherhood agent Huma Abedin. PeterKa (talk) 18:33, 1 November 2015 (EST)
You seem to be following the Muslim Brotherhood. Did you see this coming (currently a link on main page right)? VargasMilan (talk) 00:44, 7 November 2015 (EST)
That's a great move on Cruz's part. There have certainly been plenty of twists in this race. A few days ago, we were wondering whether Trump or Bush would be the better (or less awful) nominee. Now they are both toast and Cruz is the man to beat. PeterKa (talk) 05:53, 7 November 2015 (EST)

Secular humanism

Conservapedia's article calls secular humanism a form of philosophical skepticism. Strangely, the most prominent secular humanists I see appear in the media and on the internet would be better described as "confidence anarchists" (see Confidence game) and hardly philosophical at all. Take the crudest stereotype you can imagine of the black spherical bomb-wielding anarchist of the early 1900s, dress them up in modern apparel with the untruth as their new weapon of sabotage and watch them betray every "human" institution that makes civilized life possible in the course of their labored effort to force others to taste the gall that welled up in them after the just consequences of their failed sinful grab at importance was visited upon their own persons. VargasMilan (talk) 14:35, 5 November 2015 (EST)

Vargasmillan, my guess is that you mainly see representatives of the New Atheism school of atheists in the media or atheists who launch legal fights about church-state issues.
About the only time the secular humanists get press is when it comes to atheist churches stories. The father of secular humanism was the academic Paul Kurtz and often academics don't seek press attention. Conservative (talk) 15:06, 5 November 2015 (EST)
Virtually the only intended "progress" I see that is championed by today's "progressive" elites is in the direction set down by secular "humanism" and actually rooted in the motivations and pursued by the methods I described. Don't tell me left wing politics in the U.S. and other developed countries isn't led by (often disguised) secular humanists. VargasMilan (talk) 16:22, 5 November 2015 (EST)

Paris massacre tweets

  • ISIS attacks Paris hours after @BarackObama claims he has "contained" them, just like he "defeated" al Qaeda and "ended the war" in Iraq. — Liz Cheney
  • Reminder: FBI and DHS say they have no way to vet for terrorism and ISIS has said they will send "refugee" fighters (President Obama @POTUS We're also increasing the number of Syrian and other refugees we admit to the U.S. to 100,000 per year for the next two years. [September 28]) — Katie Pavlich
  • Moronic and suicidal. FBI/DHS don't have a vetting system, ISIS already declared they'll send "refugee" fighters (Rolling Stone @RollingStone After the attacks in Paris, we shouldn't close our doors to refugees fleeing extremism – we should open them.) — Katie Pavlich
  • No, the ISIS terrorist who claimed refugee status to get to Paris didn't "slip in," he walked right in and got a free ride without vetting — Katie Pavlich
  • President Obama, Please tell us, if ISIS is now contained, what's it look like when they're on the loose? — Dennis Michael Lynch
  • Obama watched ISIS grow, Armed Them, Champions Gun Control and Refugee Invasion. It's Planned. #WakeUpAmerica — Phil
  • This is coming here. Simply a matter of time. And we are completely bereft of leadership. #tcot — James Woods
  • The moment when Salon finally passed The Onion. Only difference is The Onion knows it's a parody site (Salon: Do the Paris attacks mean it's time to accept more refugees in Europe?) — James Woods
  • We are living the horror. The centre of France was struck by an exceptional barbarity. It was an escalation of Islamist terrorism and the sixth time this year that Islamists have attacked our country." — Marine le Pen, Front National leader
  • Will the blithering idiot who said, just before the Paris attacks, that ISIS is "contained," at least admit that he is a blithering idiot? — Dinesh D'Souza
  • New video shows French jets departing for #ISIS strongholds — CNN
  • In one week ISIS took down a passenger plane, and hit Paris. "Contained." "JV" — John Nolte
  • French police who died storming #Bataclan tonight cut from same cloth as NYPD & FDNY who headed to burning towers on 9/11. God rest them. — Toby Harnden
  • Turkey foiled Istanbul terror plot on same day as Paris attacks — Agence France-Presse
  • Devout Muslims CHEER Paris Slaughter on Social Media: Muslim Islamic State supporters on social media cheered... — Pamela Geller
  • Paris Suicide Bombers WERE RESCUED OFF Sinking Migrant Boat: They were rescued and their response? To kill [their saviors in the cause of Allah. That’s jihad.] — Pamela Geller
  • WSJ EXCLUSIVE: Suicide bomber at Paris soccer stadium had a ticket, was turned away by security before detonating.
  • Obama: "An attack on all of humanity and the universal values we share." No, it's an attack on non-Islamic humanity and Non-Islamic values. — Ben Shapiro
  • The Middle Eastern refugee situation and the rise of ISIS can be laid at Hillary's feet more than any Western politician other than Obama. — Ben Shapiro
  • @HillaryClinton: ‘We Should Increase the Number of Refugees’ #DemDebate — National Review
  • When will President Obama issue the words RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM? He can't say it, and unless he will, the problem will not be solved! — Donald Trump
  • Iraq warned US-led coalition countries of imminent assault before Paris attacks. — AP Newsbreak
  • We are told NOT 2 judge ALL Muslims by actions of a few lunatics.& encouraged 2judge ALL Gun Owners by the actions of few loons! #DemDebate — Janie Johnson
  • #PARIS: #Terrorists shot people in #wheelchairs in back of theater — Drudge Report
  • Obama moves to 'increase and accelerate' admission of Syrian refugees... #Paris — Matt Drudge
  • FBI Has 1,000 Active ISIS Probes Inside USA... #Paris — Matt Drudge
  • Muslims on track to exceed Jewish population in USA... #Paris — Matt Drudge
  • The attacks in France are despicable. The world must unite to condemn & end all acts of terrorism. Our prayers remain with France. — Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas
  • First time a state of emergency declared in France since Algerian War. — Michael C. Moynihan
  • We Need Zero Tolerance For #OpenBorders Zero Tolerance For Unvetted #Muslim Refugees — Marti Fox
  • "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society" I'm not gonna lay down and die for your tolerance. (Mark Ruffalo @MarkRuffalo Don't allow this horrific act allow you to be drawn into the loss of your humanity or tolerance. That is the intended outcome. #ParisAttacks) — Steph
  • Has America finally and fully awakened to the consequence of accepting 100s of thousands of refugees? #ParisAttacks #PrayForParis — @ChristiChat
  • Israel stands with France in war against terrorism. I send condolences to the families of the murdered & wish the injured a speedy recovery. — Benjamin Netanyahu
  • October 11, 2015 @realDonaldTrump warns Syrian refugees could be ISIS 'Trojan horse' in USA & elsewhere. #Trump2016 — Daniel Scavino, Jr.
  • These Islamic radicals know who their enemies are, and have for decades. It is we—or at least some of our leaders—who have forgotten who is under attack. — Former U.S. Representative to the U. N. John Bolton

VargasMilan (talk) 05:59, 16 November 2015 (EST)

  • It's not just the big attacks that make the international news. There are smaller incidents all the time. France has been under siege since the Charlie Hebdo attack in January. If the best he can do is twenty bombs on an ISIS training camp, Hollande may want to pull out the prayer rugs and start figuring out which direction Mecca is. The latest ISIS video says Washington is next.[38] Obama has released five more Gitmo terrorists since the Paris attacks. If anything, the Hildabeast is even more pro-Muslim. So France can't expect any help from the U.S. If you think of Charles Martel at Poitiers or Napoleon in Egypt, this is a sad end to a long and honorable crusading tradition. PeterKa (talk) 19:58, 16 November 2015 (EST)
Agreed Peter. Until ground forces are sent in to flush them out, they remain alive to plot again. Air power alone stopped Serbia. That was a fluke, yet that is the strategy for ISIS.--Jpatt (talk) 20:29, 16 November 2015 (EST)
If this or this are any indication, France has no stomach for a fight. We can only hope sheer inertia can keep the country going until the U.S once again has a president willing fight for Western Civilization. In the meantime, this article has some good advice for the French. With Belgium riddled with ISIS safe havens, the dream of a Europe with open borders will have to wait. PeterKa (talk) 03:04, 17 November 2015 (EST)
At his press conference, Obama made it official that U.S. policy is not to defeat ISIS or even to retaliate for the massacre in Paris. Instead, we'll "stay the course" and "contain" them, whatever that means.[39] It was apparently too much even for the White House press corp, normally a base constituency for Obama. They had to ask the question three times before they could accept that this was Obama's for-real answer. Retaliating wouldn't even require U.S. boots on the ground since the Jordanian army is willing to do the dirty work. PeterKa (talk) 08:51, 17 November 2015 (EST)

While you were enjoying the holidays...

The ink was hardly dry on the final estimates of the U.S. economic statistics for Fiscal Year 2015 ending September 30, when we are given to learn the United States federal debt/GDP ratio jumped 4% from 101.8% to 105.7% in the three short months afterwards (Oct. 1 to Dec. 31). The Greek Debt Crisis of 2010 was precipitated when Greek debt reached 115% of GDP.

This increase in the ratio was due to the elimination of the debt ceiling and an increase in debt of about $800 billion (which is a higher rate of new debt in proportion to GDP in three months than for the entire fiscal year 2005 or 2006 at the height of the Iraq War) and a large slowdown in GDP growth just recently being indicated by a large stock market correction.

In those three months, whatever the results of any tax increases put into law for current spending, the U.S. Government has committed itself to four percent of the size of today's entire U.S. economy over and above that amount.

If you are preparing a budget with a competitor for resources, you would probably be willing to haggle over spending on various items in the range of one-half to one percent. If there were a built-in increase of four percent on your competitor's side, the haggling would become something of a farce. If you successfully argue for a one percent advantage, your competitor can loudly complain of his cut (while netting three percent) and win sympathy, because the four percent, through sleight of hand, isn't part of the competitive process and happened "at some other time".

The taxpayer arguing for lower taxes is like you in the example: he or she might get a publicized one percent of GDP tax cut out of the budget while four percent of GDP over the budget has already been spent. VargasMilan (talk) 19:01, 8 January 2016 (EST)

Trump and his protesters

This article takes a look at a group of professional protesters that go to Trump rallies to try to shut them down. Apparently, Trump said something or other about Muslims that made these people upset. In other words, the protests are an attempt to impose religious censorship. Or at least this article, obviously written by a sympathetic journalist, doesn't argue that they are about anything more noble than that. The protesters have the nerve to compare themselves to Rosa Parks. Uh, excuse me, but wasn't Parks protesting segregation rather than free speech? There are many Muslim countries in the world where criticism of Islam is banned. If your delicate ears cannot withstand such criticism, may I suggest moving to one of them? PeterKa (talk) 05:06, 11 January 2016 (EST)

  • I see that the protester scum are being hailed by John Kasich[40] as well by the Huma-affiliated CAIR.[41] Kasich is a literal sellout. He was a conservative governor of Ohio, but then he took the money of Clinton pal Ron Burkle to run as a liberal Republican.[42] In other words, he is this year’s Jon Huntsman. PeterKa (talk) 22:49, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Trump as a nominee

Nate Silver crunches the numbers and finds that Donald Trump Is Really Unpopular With General Election Voters. Trump's net favorability is -25 percent, easily the worst in American politics. That compares to -8 for Hillary, -7 for Cruz, and +3 for Sanders. PeterKa (talk) 22:39, 18 January 2016 (EST)

That's only because the Republican nominating voters are split between Trump and not-Trump. Once Trump becomes the nominee, the rest of the Republicans will climb onto the Trump bandwagon and give him a favorable rating. After that, Trump will run ads in the general election that will help erase Hillary's five-point lead and with his loyal band of election-workers hopefully march on to victory. VargasMilan (talk) 00:00, 19 January 2016 (EST)
U.S. News has a chart of Trump's political donations. Charlie Rangel is the No. 1 recipient, Hillary No. 2, and McCain No. 3. Most of this is about getting support from people can help him with his development projects. But I see nothing in this chart that suggests Trump is a conservative. PeterKa (talk) 02:13, 19 January 2016 (EST)
Ann Coulter said she personally begged three Presidential candidates to take up the issue of immigration. While Trump called her unsolicited and asked for an advance copy of her immigration book. VargasMilan (talk) 02:59, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Donald Trump as the next president of the United States

I realize that Wall Street and the Democratic Party favor Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders and there is a lot of corruption in the Obama administration, but Hillary may be indicted in about 60 days according to a former federal prosecutor.[43] If justice proves to be ultimately impartial, then Hillary could be indicted and convicted just like General Petraeus was over his email security breeches.

It does appear as if the FBI will have a large body of evidence against Hillary in relation to her email scandal and possibly the corruption related to the Clinton Foundation. I don't know if Obama wants to jeopardize how historians view his presidency by letting Hillary off the hook.

I don't think that Sanders is electable as I don't think he could withstand a concerted opposition to his candidacy. Both Hillary and Sanders have essentially been playing softball in respect to each others candidacies.

The Republicans could waltz into the White House in the upcoming election. Donald Trump might be the next president of the United States. Conservative (talk) 10:14, 19 January 2016 (EST)

It looks like the Democrats have may have to choose between Bernie as a nominee or Hillary making a videotaped acceptance speech from her cell. There has been a series of articles published recently that argue that blacks are in Hillary's corner no matter what.[44] That would imply that she could lose both Iowa and New Hampshire and then stage a comeback in South Carolina and other southern states. What did Hillary ever do for black people anyway? Back in the 1960s, blacks were crazy for Robert Kennedy -- who knows why?
Black enthusiasm powered the Bill Clinton and Obama victories -- and it's not there for Bernie. To extend the Vietnam-era analogy, he is today's McGovern, an idol of white liberals that other demographics just don't get. Another reason Bernie won't do nearly as well as current polling suggests is that he has literally nothing to say about terrorism, currently the No. 1 concern of general election voters. When he was asked about San Bernardino, he quickly changed the subject to income inequality. Of course, he could turn this around with a little tough talk, as both Bill Clinton and Obama did. But a big part of Bernie's appeal thus far has been that he is seen as too "principled" for that sort of thing. PeterKa (talk) 19:10, 19 January 2016 (EST)
In September SurveyUSA took a poll and found head to head against Hillary, Trump would receive 25% of the black vote. VargasMilan (talk) 22:33, 19 January 2016 (EST)

A Trump-Cruz race?

The campaign buzz for the last couple of days has been that the Great Winnowing is finally in progress, and that the Republican field will soon be narrowed to Trump vs Cruz. This is of course inevitable and predictable, but also seems a little early given that no one has actually caste any votes yet. This poll shows Cruz beating Trump by 8 points in a two-man race. Of course, it is possible Trump will bring people to the polls who don't ordinarily vote. Faced with the choice of Cruz or Trump, the establishment is going with Trump.[45] It seems that they consistently prefer the candidate who is less threatening to the Democrats. PeterKa (talk) 21:20, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Trump's immigration law enforcement and border security efforts would prevent other states from turning into California, so the Democrats shouldn't feel too copacetic about that. And Cruz may not even be in the race, which will encourage Rubio, Carson and Bush to neither drop out nor endorse Cruz. The spread between Cruz and Trump should depend a lot on endorsements, as Andy predicted, and Palin's endorsement of Trump today certainly didn't help Cruz. VargasMilan (talk) 01:29, 20 January 2016 (EST)
I meant that Cruz is more threatening to the Democrats because he is more electable, for the reasons Nate Silver outlined in the article I linked to above. Over at National Review, they have "What’s Driving the Establishment’s Preference for Trump over Cruz?" They don't really answer the question though. Jeb Bush was the establishment's favorite until recently. As far as Democrats and independents go, the Bush name is poison. So whatever motivates the establishment to back a particular candidate, it's not electability. PeterKa (talk) 02:09, 20 January 2016 (EST)
A lot of Republicans will acquiesce if Trump becomes the nominee. And Trump and the RNC have barely begun to challenge Hillary. Nobody's challenged Sanders. And if Trump articulates his vision well in the debates his numbers are bound to improve. Plus the swing voters who don't consume conservative media will be hearing the arguments against Hillary for the first time, and there are a lot of negatives that can be said about her. VargasMilan (talk) 06:12, 20 January 2016 (EST)
There were other articles about the "establishment" backing Trump, but Rush Limbaugh suggested today it could be reverse psychology, in that the voters are supposed to be angry at the "establishment", and its association with Trump will cause him to lose votes. If so, Limbaugh predicts they won't be able to maintain their support and will have to abandon Trump at some point. VargasMilan (talk) 01:08, 21 January 2016 (EST)
  • As far as endorsements go, Trump is in last place.[46] If endorsements mattered, the nomination would be Bush vs. Rubio. And neither of them can compare to the monster number of endorsements Hillary has. PeterKa (talk) 21:31, 23 January 2016 (EST)

Cruz on the campaign trail

On the campaign trail in New Hampshire, The Washington Post is "terrified" of what an awesome vote-getting machine Cruz is: "What makes Ted Cruz truly dangerous." Sample zinger:

  • “For the record, Tom Brady was framed,” he says, to inevitable cheers about the Patriots quarterback. “I’m not willing to pander on much” — laughter — “but on that, Tom Brady was framed, and I have it on good authority that Hillary Clinton was responsible.” More cheers. “Why else do you think she destroyed her emails?” PeterKa (talk) 04:37, 21 January 2016 (EST)

TAR

He tried (and partly succeeded) in converting Conservapedia into a link - farm. Sysops catered to his wishes and even rewrote commandments, just to please him. Warnings were ignored, critics got banned or intimidated,

So, it must be allowed to say: I told you so.

... and we can always expect him back the moment James Wesley Rawles publishes his next novel.

--AugustO (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2016 (EST)

I have my doubts that TAR's purpose in editing Conservapedia was to create a link farm to the James Wesley Rawles website. How many links to the James Wesley Rawles website did TAR create?
TARs main purpose for editing Conservapedia appears to have been to expand the survivalism/gun/gun rights and Ayurvedic medicine entries. A compromise was reached that he did not contribute Ayurvedic medicine material.
Next, I did tell TAR not to create non-relevant internal links in the "See also" sections and for the category tags. Conservative (talk) 19:32, 22 January 2016 (EST)
Link-farm may be an out-dated phrase - but an article like Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse was certainly written for search engines.... --AugustO (talk) 19:34, 22 January 2016 (EST)
Next, I did tell TAR not to create non-relevant internal links in the "See also" sections and for the category tags. Oh, sorry, I do apologize. How could I have forgotten to mention your courageous acts! --AugustO (talk) 19:43, 22 January 2016 (EST)
Why do you think that the page Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse was certainly written for search engines? What criteria are you using?
The evidence suggests that TAR knew little to nothing about search engines (or internet marketing) and didn't appear to write for them nor care about search engine traffic. I doubt someone who knew about search engine traffic and/or internet marketing would create pages with a lot of red links in them. AlanE is right about pages with a lot of red links being visually unattractive. Faced with pages with a lot of visually unappealing red links on them, many people will bail out of those page more quickly. Do search engines rank pages that users bail out of more quickly more highly? If so, why?
The page Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse has a lot of red links in it and therefore it does not appear to be a slick marketing page. Conservative (talk) 19:58, 22 January 2016 (EST)
I removed the excessive red linking on the page Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse. Conservative (talk) 20:45, 22 January 2016 (EST)
AugustO, you don't mean critics got banned or intimidated; you mean critics targeted TAR and in their eagerness to stop him tripped over themselves, became harsher to compensate for that, in doing so crossed the line into abuse and earned warnings or blocks. VargasMilan (talk) 20:12, 22 January 2016 (EST)

AugustO, no Conservapedia commandments were rewritten due to TAR.

Next, a single SYSOP account temporarily abridged a portion of the Conservapedia Manual of Style page to avoid excessive/petty squabbling about "category tags" (sometimes subcategorization can be overdone and be counterproductive as there are too many levels of subcategorization).

And as a result of the "category tag" war, the section of the Manuel of Style dealing with category tags was improved (a helpful diagram was added and a warning to not add petty/trolling category tags was added). Conservative (talk) 20:23, 22 January 2016 (EST)

The Conservapedia article Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse ranks #13 at Google USA for the term "Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse". Much higher than I expected given the number of unattractive red links on the page. The book was published by Penguin Books (a major publisher) so perhaps it sold a decent amount of copies.
Now that I removed all the ugly red links, maybe web visitors will stay on the page longer and it will climb into the Google top 10 search results for the term "Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse". AugustO, of course you know what this may mean. More TAR like editors may soon be editing Conservapedia! :) Conservative (talk) 21:13, 22 January 2016 (EST)
A little off-topic, but "Liberators - A Novel of the Coming Global Collapse" is now #11 for me, anyway. --David B (talk) 12:06, 8 February 2016 (EST)

Another Trump video

This video lets Trump makes the case against Trump. Here are clips of him identifying himself as Democrat, as well as "pro-choice" on partial birth abortion. He also calls for the impeachment of George Bush and praises Hillary. All Cruz has to do is run this thing in Iowa and he's got the nomination clinched. PeterKa (talk) 22:32, 22 January 2016 (EST)

Water under the bridge. VargasMilan (talk) 22:59, 22 January 2016 (EST)
Here's what Trump thinks of you: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and I wouldn't lose any voters."[47] PeterKa (talk) 03:54, 24 January 2016 (EST)
Trump let the mask slip again, this time in Pella, Iowa: "When I'm president, I'm a different person. I can be the most politically correct person you've ever seen."[48] PeterKa (talk) 03:50, 27 January 2016 (EST)
First you use a processed video edit to misquote Trump, joining hundreds of media hacks in doing so; then you quote Trump in order to misinterpret what he's saying. You're really making a terrific case for Cruz. VargasMilan (talk) 05:25, 27 January 2016 (EST)
My interpretation is that, "The most politically correct person you've ever seen" is inside Trump screaming to get out. We will see a lot more of him when and if Trump clinches the nomination. PeterKa (talk) 04:40, 29 January 2016 (EST)
Yeah, right. This is Trump's idea of political correctness: "I refuse to call Megyn Kelly a bimbo, because that would not be politically correct. Instead I will only call her a lightweight reporter!" (January 27, 6:44 am EST, 3 hours after your post). VargasMilan (talk) 05:04, 29 January 2016 (EST)
He is learning to sound more presidential all the time. PeterKa (talk) 05:18, 29 January 2016 (EST)
Coulter: "I assume he's using Kelly as a cat's paw for an attack against the entire Rupert Murdoch enterprise, which is implacably pro-open borders, pro-amnesty and, consequently, anti-Trump." Trump was responding to a post he retweeted where someone called Kelly a bimbo and showed pictures of Kelly making come-hither looks to the camera in a glossy magazine she posed in, apparently while a journalist. VargasMilan (talk) 06:44, 29 January 2016 (EST)

Hillary's feminism

I was skeptical of Trump's strategy of treating Bill's affairs as "fair game." But it seems to be working.[49] It is biologically unnatural to expect a woman to show sisterhood to her romantic rivals. It certainly wasn't something we expected back in the 1990s. But modern feminism has apparently conditioned young women to think otherwise. In 2008, it always hurt Hillary when Bill showed up. But that wasn't because of feminism. It was because parents took one look at Bill and thought, "OMG! If Hillary is elected, Bill will be back in the White House. Then the kiddies will be asking us about all the disgusting things he was in the news for!" PeterKa (talk) 08:29, 24 January 2016 (EST)

How the establishment can stage a comeback

To the establishment, the choice between Cruz and Trump is like choosing between death by shooting and death by poisoning.[50] As for Marco Rubio, he is not much better.[51] So how can establishment-favorite Bush stage a comeback? Here is an idea for an ad: "I come from a humble upbringing. I was raised the son of a president. We had it tough back then. In those days they only had the 20-car motorcade, not the 40-car one they've got today..."[52] Jeb could go on to compare Bush 41's vacations to Obama's, etc. It would be hysterical. PeterKa (talk) 19:50, 24 January 2016 (EST)

What happens if Hillary is indicted?

Answer: She can keep running for president. The Dems won't mind a bit! The trail is being blazed by Kathleen Kane, Pennsylvania Democratic and indicted attorney general. In the latest poll, Kane is ahead of her nearest primary challenger 31-18.[53] PeterKa (talk) 21:21, 27 January 2016 (EST)

While Obama decides whether or not to indict Hillary, Hillary talks about what a "great" Supreme Court justice he would be.[54] Hey, that doesn't sound corrupt at all, does it? The only previous president appointed to the Supreme Court was Taft in 1921. That was not by Taft's immediate successor but eight years after he left office. Taft had been a solicitor general and an appeals court judge before becoming president. PeterKa (talk) 15:10, 28 January 2016 (EST)
Here's a great tweet from David Frum: "Sanders closing Iowa argument: “Imagine a better world!” Clinton closing argument: “We’re highly confident no indictments are forthcoming." I take it Obama responded favorably to Hillary's Supreme Court trial balloon. All the leaks are presumably from someone in the FBI who isn't happy with this decision. Wouldn't it be great if a Republican gets sworn in and Hillary has to flee to Russia like Snowden? PeterKa (talk) 05:16, 31 January 2016 (EST)

Image copyright?

I've made several screenshots and gotten them uploaded to CP, and did not claim copyright on them. This might be more legally difficult with a screenshot, since it is of another organization's (possibly copyrighted) software, but at least with actual photos, would it be helpful or at least not harmful if I claim copyright and offer free use only to CP? After all, any marketing specialist would tell you that your business or website needs things which are exlusive to it self. If everything is uploaded for Public Domain, we loose exclusivity of those files. I know, CP is not primarily worried about such things, but I'm just wondering. Thanks!--David B (talk) 17:54, 5 February 2016 (EST)

Missing white voters

Sean Trende's "The Case of the Missing White Voters" has gotten a lot of attention in pundit America recently. IMO, what is says is a lot less original than what people seem to think it says. The post-election commentary in 2012 often noted that Obama was the beneficiary of a "high black turnout." "Missing white votes" is just the flip side of this, the same phenomenon viewed from the other end of the telescope. Republicans often do 2-3 percentage points better in the election than pre-election opinion polls suggest. In 2012, the polls were right on the nose. This is presumably related to that black turnout -- and to the staggering amount of money Obama spent to achieve it. PeterKa (talk) 05:01, 8 February 2016 (EST)

Price of gold going up. Will User:TheAmericanRedoubt's content see a spike in popularity? Vindication for Gerald Celente soon?

The price of gold is going up.

Many other commodities are falling in price which is an indication of a global economic slowdown. There is a debt bubble that has grown to $220 trillion worldwide.

The price of gold going up even in a U.S. election year when the U.S government often tries to pump things up. There is a migrant crisis in Europe and China is seeing economic stability. The price of gold tells me that people don't feel confident that politicians are going to save the day.

Will Gerald Celente finally be vindicated?[55] Is another Great Depression which is worse than the first one, coming soon? Will many wars break out fairly soon afterwards? Will User:TheAmericanRedoubt's content see a spike in popularity?

As far as the US/global economy, I don't believe the politicians will be able to kick the can down the road past 2040, but we will see.[56] In the meantime, remember the 4 Gs: God, gold, guns and a get away plan! Conservative (talk) 11:47, 13 February 2016 (EST)

The "spam filter"

I have successfully created the page Rest mass, and attempted to redirect Invariant mass and Relativistic mass to same. Unfortunately, the spam filter thinks I'm talking about asses, the jawbones of which, as we know, are sturdy and dangerous. So I had to make do with links to "Rest massiveness", hardly a good situation. Could someone please straighten this out?

Oops. I see part of the problem. I created it by doing a search for the term in quotes, the way I often do, and it created the page in quotes. I can't create it normally. Could someone please do as Samson did in Judges 15:16 and slay a thousand such clauses from the spam filter? SamHB (talk) 20:53, 21 February 2016 (EST)

Time passed template?

I see we have an "age" template, to display the years which have passed since a certain date, but do we have any kind of template which shows months, weeks, and days?--David B (talk) 13:43, 9 March 2016 (EST) I don't think so. Many of these articles have not been edited since 2009. There is a danger if you construct a sentence in terms of time passed, it will become badly out-of-date. It is better to say, "As of August 2009, X was Y." or "In September 2010, Z happened." Do not say, "Four years ago, A happened." JDano (talk) 13:49, 9 March 2016 (EST)

I know, but although I hate to keep comparing CP to WP, WP does it in a helpful way. They say "In September 2010 (X ago) Y was Z." That way, the actual date is prominent but the user doesn't need to count off the days/months/years if they want to know exactly how long ago. Its not hard, but it's one of those convenient things WP has that we do not. --David B (talk) 14:08, 9 March 2016 (EST)

You can use {{age}} on CP: On September 11, 2001 ({{age|2001|9|11}} years ago) the twin towers fell. gives: On September 11, 2001 (22 years ago) the twin towers fell. JDano (talk) 23:56, 9 March 2016 (EST)

A better technical question is: Does CP support LUA templates? If so, I could write some templates for you that would knock your socks off. JDano (talk) 00:03, 10 March 2016 (EST)


I have used age sometimes, but that only looks good if it's been at least two years already. Good thought though, thanks. As for LUA, I'm afraid I don't even know what that stands for. In any case, though, I suspect no one is watching the template approval request page anymore. I could be wrong, but I submitted one a while ago and have still gotten nothing. Mayby there's a problem with it, but I'd think someone would say so if that were the case.--David B (talk) 00:21, 10 March 2016 (EST)

A Grand Unified Theory of 2016

As you won’t be surprised to learn, I have a Grand Unified Theory regarding the 2016 race. Briefly, Obama wants a third term, either directly or through Biden. Sometime last summer, he ordered the media to jack up coverage of Trump. Not so long ago, the airwaves were considered a public trust and the networks followed the "equal time" principle. That rule prevented anything like the lopsided coverage we see this year. If Trump is nominated, as looks increasingly likely, the Republicans will have selected the the weakest contender in the field. According to this theory, Hillary will be indicted sometime between the end of the primaries and the opening of the Democratic National Convention. With the help of the supers, Biden will be nominated in place of Hillary. Obama will have overturned the constitution and achieved a coup. PeterKa (talk) 22:15, 12 March 2016 (EST)

The Green Papers

If you want to follow the delegate math in the lead-up to Cleveland, The Green Papers and Ballotpedia are the essential resources. Here is a detail I didn't see covered in the news media: Each state gets three "party leader" delegates. These are the national committeeman, the national committee woman, and the chairman of the jurisdiction's Republican Party. That means 168 delegates (out of 2,472) automatically go to unbound party regulars. PeterKa (talk) 20:12, 25 March 2016 (EDT)

My advise to Trump

With Trump's matchup numbers in free fall, it's unsolicited advise time. Here's my three point program for reviving his fortunes:

  1. No more statements that suggest Trump is something other than a law-abiding citizen of the republic. No more threats against Ryan, the convention in Cleveland, or the protesters. Let the police and the security folks do their job. Don't make it too easy for the media to blame Trump for violence.
  2. All Hillary. All the time. Enough with Megan and Heidi! Hillary is a crook who runs a corrupt foundation. She should be in jail for allowing Huma and Blumenthal to have access to our nation's most sensitive secrets. She's also a UFO-believing idiot. Everything this feminist icon has is a result of her marriage to Bill. She has no talent for anything except lying and insulting people -- with Blumenthal providing most of the insults. I almost forgot: The Benghazi episode shows she has no clue as to how to deal with terrorism. From the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt to CAIR in the U.S., she's the Islamist's best friend.
  3. Sue the people who are disrupting the rallies. Soros, Black Lives Matter, and MoveOn all need to see summons. Don't accept blame the blame the various incidents at the rallies, violent and otherwise. PeterKa (talk) 09:13, 27 March 2016 (EDT)

Missing articles

Alaska: Bill Walker — Arizona: Doug Ducey — Arkansas: Asa Hutchinson — Hawaii: David Ige — Illinois: Bruce Rauner — Maryland Larry Hogan — Montana: Steve Bullock — Nebraska: Pete Ricketts — New Hampshire Maggie Hassan — North Carolina: Pat McCrory — Pennsylvania Tom Wolf — Rhode Island: Gina Raimondo — Washington:Jay Inslee

--AugustO (talk) 18:57, 28 March 2016 (EDT)

There are general problems with the office holders of the states - an encylopedia aimed at students should keep track of those. I'm missing basic information on the pages of some states, too, like the number of members sent to the Electoral College, the population, etc- --AugustO (talk) 19:11, 28 March 2016 (EDT)

You are correct. In addition, there is a lot of interesting content that crosses the Main Page, but is not back up by additions to the relevant articles in our encyclopedia. JDano (talk) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (EDT)

Template Approval

Hi, is anyone checking new templates and approving/denying them? I created a new template and submitted it for review, if not approval. Over a month later, it still has not been commented on, and on the same submission page I see nothing having been approved since 2009. I don't like to nag, but it would be handy if I could start using my template, if it is acceptable. Thanks! --David B (talk) 00:00, 31 March 2016 (EDT)

I got an email: TAR is not going to be an editor anymore and I think his decision is final

I got an email User: TheAmericanRedoubt (TAR) is not going to be an editor anymore and I think his decision is final.

I did agree with TARs views where they agreed with the views that the bulk of conservatives hold. I also believe in preparedness as I think some hard times are coming in about 15-20 years.

At the same, I did mention to TAR not to have web pages with a ton of internal links on them and to not have big "see also" sections. And I agree with AlanE to avoid red links whenever possible. Given the amount of red links that were created by TAR than he will never clean up, I have to give AlanE some credit for being right about the TAR red link situation.

And some category tag clean up will have to be done too. So I have to give AugustO some credit too.

I wish the TAR situation had worked out and tried to assist in matters (suggested some books on writing, etc., gave him wiki page style recommendations, etc.), but it didn't work out.

And I made some promises to some people that I can no longer delay keeping. So unfortunately, I cannot assist in the clean up.

At the time TAR came aboard, there was less editors. So some of the editing formatting issues were overlooked. TAR having pro second amendment views and liberal editors attacking him made working with TAR about his editing formatting issues much more challenging. My time was divided between refereeing editors about their political fights and trying to coach TAR about editing formatting issues. There are more editors now so hopefully this situation will not be repeated in terms of an editor having wiki formatting/stylistic issues that are not more quickly corrected. Conservative (talk) 17:53, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

I complained about TAR too much. If he wasn't for TAR, I wouldn't have rethought about how the Austrian school of economics have better predicted recessions/depressions and how many of these economists/financial experts are predicting an upcoming economic collapse.
Yes, his content could have been written/formatted much better. But I think I am looking a gift horse in the mouth. Sometimes a timely messenger comes wearing camel hair and a leather belt instead of wearing a three piece suit. :) Conservative (talk) 02:14, 4 April 2016 (EDT)

We need to put a complete and permanent stop to this

Our attempts to clean up TAR's mess, and start turning this site back into an educational resource for school-age students, has been repeatedly interrupted by TAR coming back, reverting people's work, and blocking people. This most recent case is not the first time he has declared that he is retiring from Conservapedia. People need to have confidence that their work will not be destroyed, in a way that makes repair incredibly difficult, by this person.

Therefore, I respectfully recommend that his block privileges be revoked, so that he can't unblock himself and resume his destructiveness. SamHB (talk) 13:03, 2 April 2016 (EDT)

TAR said: "Dear Andy, I am resigning from any further participation in CP. Please delete my CP user account and erase my user page and talk page along with its history. Thank you. TheAmericanRedoubt (talk) 05:55, 1 April 2016 (EDT)"
So I don't think he would have a problem with his blocking privileges being removed and his account being blocked.
If he returns, which I don't think will happen, he would have to agree to: not create big "see also" sections, avoid using a lot of red internal links, only use highly relevant category tags. use hierarchical form of category tags and use an encyclopedic tone in his editing (avoid using the term "gun grabbing" often, etc. etc.). I think this is a moot point since I don't believe he is ever coming back to be an editor. Conservative (talk) 19:56, 2 April 2016 (EDT)

I complained about TAR too much. If he wasn't for TAR, I wouldn't have rethought about how the Austrian school of economics have better predicted recessions/depressions and how many of these economists/financial experts are predicting an upcoming economic collapse.

Yes, his content could have been written/formatted much better. But I think I am looking a gift horse in the mouth. Sometimes a timely messenger comes wearing camel hair and a leather belt instead of wearing a three piece suit. :) Conservative (talk) 02:14, 4 April 2016 (EDT)

My recent email from TAR indicated that this retirement from Conservapedia is permanent.
I would like to tell you more about his future plans, but it was a private email so I cannot. I believe that he is not coming back though. Conservative (talk) 17:07, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
The rest of us would have an easier time believing this, without taking your word for it about all these mysterious secret emails you have with him, if Andy would simply revoke his block rights. You don't have any problem with that, do you? SamHB (talk) 17:54, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
This has already cost us more hours that I would like to acknowledge. Can we suspend his powers until he helps with the clean up? JDano (talk) 18:21, 4 April 2016 (EDT)

Getting blocked for "adult content"

Using the internet service provided by a hotel (Sheraton) recently, some Conservapedia pages were blocked for having "adult" (that is, not family-friendly) content. I had not requested any kind of "parental control" setting. The page Liberal denial really caught my attention. It was accessible with one click from the front page. I then looked around, and several other pages were also flagged. All the pages like Bestiality and Sweden were of course flagged, but Liberal denial, and a number of other "ordinary" pages, really surprised me. This web site is rapidly becoming "adult" in nature, and not just in the expected articles by User:Conservative. It's really frustrating to try to write articles about math and science if they, or perhaps the whole web site, is going to be blocked by the parental controls that might be enforced for the intended audience. Would the administration of this web site please tell us what action is planned to remedy this situation? SamHB (talk) 18:38, 4 April 2016 (EDT)

The Bible mentions bestiality multiple times. Do you want to ban the Bible? Conservative (talk) 20:51, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
I have zero tolerance for that kind of childish and disingenuous excuse. It's the kind of excuse that I used on my parents to defend my use of foul language. I'm sure most people did the same. But we stopped by the time we reached the age of 10 or so. And you should too. There are things in the Bible that one should not be obsessive about. And no books of the Bible have that word in any of its book titles. Yet Conservapedia is quite obsessed with it: Professor values and bestiality, Occupy Wall Street and bestiality chant, Bestiality and various geographic areas, Bestiality and Germany, Atheism and bestiality, Wikipedia on bestiality, Academia and bestiality, Denmark and bestiality, Bestiality and Sweden, Evolutionary belief and bestiality, Netherlands and bestiality, Bestiality and Denmark, Sweden, and evolutionary belief, Bestiality and atheism. It's time for you to stop acting as though the rest of us want to play these childish games. We don't. We haven't since we were 10 years old. These games are causing Conservapedia, a web site that many of us seriously care about, to trigger content-blocking software.
But thanks for removing the "Being a proponent of liberal Christianity, it wouldn't surprise me if you want to ban the Bible!" ad hominem. SamHB (talk) 20:57, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
As a practical matter, we want Conservapedia to be widely available to people who are staying at hotels. (This is as important as the people who routinely place Bibles in each hotel room or as Marriott placing a copy of the Book of Mormon in each of its hotel rooms.) Similarly, we want Conservapedia to be available when and where we want to edit. If there was a simple misunderstanding about whether "Liberal denial" is family friendly, perhaps management can contact Sheraton about the operation of its adult material filter. However, it is probably not advisable to go to the mat over whether articles with the B Word in their titles should be accessed from those hotel rooms. JDano (talk) 21:11, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
There are 27 Conservapedia articles tying bestiality to liberal organizations, ideologies or groups. Conservapedia has over 40,000 articles. So a very small fraction of articles.
SamHB is just upset because I show that when some people embrace evolutionism/naturalism/liberalism, they also start embracing sheep, dogs and horses!
That quip, with its witty play on the word "embrace", would be funny coming from a 7-year-old. It isn't funny coming from an adult. In the past I have stated that I find you amusing. No longer. You do not amuse me in the least. You are doing serious damage to a web site that I, and most other people here, care about. This discussion has absolutely nothing to do with liberalism, naturalism, or evolution. And I have zero patience with your repeated efforts to change the subject. Get your mind out of the gutter. SamHB (talk) 21:50, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
In 2014, a global news channel which broadcasts documentaries about current topics, reported concerning secular Europe: "Bestiality is having a weird renaissance in Europe."[57] The pro-evolution Scientific American on bestiality: "After all, we are animals....".[58]Conservative (talk) 21:22, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
Different people have different tollerences. For me, antisemitism was the "deal breaker." Perhaps SamHB has a different "deal breaker" so I can understand how he feels. The facts are that we live in a world surrounded by automated systems that pass judgment upon us. "Parental controls" are based on looking for key words, so even "Scientific American" or "National Geographic" will get into trouble at some point. I would hope that (1) Conservapedia has announced standards in its Commandments about being family friendly and enforces them and (2) there are people and/or systems in place to untangle content filters when Conservapedia gets an X rating. JDano (talk) 22:02, 4 April 2016 (EDT)
Actually, this isn't a "deal breaker" for me personally. I consider the antisemitism to be more serious, just as JDano does. Perhaps because any sensible person will dismiss the bestiality stuff as childish. The point of my posting was that, while the bestiality stuff getting flagged didn't surprise me in the least, the flagging of Liberal denial did surprise me. Unfortunately, I haven't looked through the Liberal denial page to try to figure out what the problem is—the writing style is too chaotic. Perhaps someone else can look at it. SamHB (talk) 22:31, 4 April 2016 (EDT)

Liberals excel in quickly dismissing information which challenges their wicked worldview. Its called denial. If only they were more sensible. Conservative (talk) 23:13, 4 April 2016 (EDT)

We do not allow obscenity, while Wikipedia has many entries unsuitable for children

  • I think that all the articles on bestiality are unsuitable for children - whether they are true or not
  • Has anyone else encountered similar problems with automatic filters?
  • The Bible mentions bestiality, but it doesn't goes on and on and on...

--AugustO (talk) 06:58, 5 April 2016 (EDT)

AugustO, I know you are from Germany. Conservapedia's "Bestiality and Germany" article ranks #2 at a popular search engine (which begins with a G) for this particular search term. And the article has nearly 8,000 page views.
On July 1, 2013 the Daily Mail reported that bestiality brothels were spreading quickly through Germany. In addition, there were "even 'erotic zoos' which people can visit to abuse animals ranging from llamas to goats."[59]
In recent years, several countries with high rates of Darwinism/atheism have experienced problems relating to bestiality (see: Geographic areas where bestiality is posing a notable problem and Atheism and bestiality and evolutionary belief and bestiality).
Germany has one of the highest rates of belief in evolution in the world.[60] In 2005, it was reported that Germany is one of the most atheistic countries in the world and the website adherents.com reports that 41-49% of Germans are agnostics/atheists/non-believers in God.
A research survey of 1535 people, conducted by the Australian National University, revealed that belief in evolution is associated with moral permissiveness.[61]
Thank God a high proportion of Americans are creationists. I would hate to hear reports of bestiality brothels spreading rapidly across America.Conservative (talk) 11:08, 5 April 2016 (EDT)
I will also add that CP did its part to put public pressure on Germany. Probably due to public embarrassment, Germany did change its laws. And now the article serves as a reminder to Germans and to humanity what can happen when you embrace godlessness/evolutionism.
To be fair, evolutionism is growing among American youth and there are concerns that America is descending down the slippery slope of depravity due to its legalization of homosexuality. Charisma News reported: "Bestiality Now Making US Headlines, Not Always Illegal"[62] Thankfully, at this point, it is not as bad as it recently got in Germany. Conservative (talk) 11:36, 5 April 2016 (EDT)

(EC)

I will also add that CP did its part to put public pressure on Germany. Probably due to public embarrassment, Germany did change its laws. And now the article serves as a reminder to Germans and to humanity what can happen when you embrace godlessness/evolutionism.
To be fair, evolutionism is growing among American youth and there are concerns that America is descending down the slippery slope of depravity due to its legalization of homosexuality. Charisma News reported in 2014: "Bestiality Now Making US Headlines, Not Always Illegal"[63] At this point in the USA, it has not gotten as bad as it recently got in Germany. Also, with a some secular European countries getting embarrassed due to some public incidents and changing their laws, the rise of bestiality within Western Civilization seems to have subsided.Conservative (talk) 11:48, 5 April 2016 (EDT)
The question is: Is Conservapedia the right venue for your crusade against bestiality in Germany?
Should home-schooled pupils in America be informed what happens in brothels in Sweden?
How many pupils are confronted with bestiality for the first time of the life here at Conservapedia? Is this desirable? Child protection software doesn't think so, obviously.
Who googles "Bestiality and Germany"? The same people who look for swear words in dictionaries. I'm relieved that this aren't that many, as the searches resulted only in less than 10,000 hits.
--AugustO (talk) 11:40, 5 April 2016 (EDT)
The crusade is over. The forces of good won. Now CP just has to remain vigilant and remind the world what can happen when you embrace godlessness/evolutionism. So of course, the articles will stay up. Conservative (talk) 11:48, 5 April 2016 (EDT)

AugustO, you wrote: "How many pupils are confronted with bestiality for the first time of the life here at Conservapedia?"

AugustO, how many times do you need to be reminded that the Bible mentions bestiality four times? Are you recommending that young people do not read the Bible?

At this point, I think you are displaying Germanic stubbornness and you are living in denial about the fruits of evolutionism. Remember, a research survey of 1535 people, conducted by the Australian National University, revealed that belief in evolution is associated with moral permissiveness.[64]

And if Germany did not embrace evolutionism, maybe WWI and WWII never would have happened. See: Social effects of the theory of evolution and World War I and Darwinism.

And if a large part of Germany did not embrace godlessness, maybe Germany would not have a sub-replacement level of births (1.38 births per woman in 2012) and would not be flooding Europe with Muslims due to the needs of German businessmen for workers. [65]

Lastly, I do want to add that I am not anti-German. For example, I recognize the benefits that Martin Luther brought to Europe and Western Civilization via the Reformation. Conservative (talk) 12:12, 5 April 2016 (EDT)

U. S. financial condition milestone

As of March 31, 2016 the share of the total United States national debt accrued under Democrat Nancy Pelosi's speakership (2007-2010) of the House of Representatives (27.5%) has been equalled by Republican speakers John Boehner and Paul Ryan (2011-2016). 27.5% of the United States national debt equals 5.3 trillion dollars. Rush Limbaugh asked how Republicans can run on the issue of fiscal conservativism when they are responsible for spending as much as the Democrats. This new milestone certainly doesn't do anything to unsettle the basis of such questions. VargasMilan (talk) 22:36, 7 April 2016 (EDT)

Article request

Could someone please create the article: Christianity statistics

Thanks. Conservative (talk) 07:52, 11 April 2016 (EDT)

Conservative, I think the Baylor study you cited has thrown this type of statistics gathering into an uproar. A Christian asked, "Do you have a religious preference?" might answer, "No, I'm non-denominational" or "No, I just have a personal relationship with Christ", skewing the results. VargasMilan (talk) 00:54, 12 April 2016 (EDT)

2016 Republican National Convention

I just saw a rerun of some of the 2012 Republican National Convention which led me to believe that this year's convention is going to be a zoo. Delegates of both parties are such ham bones that even when there are little to no debatable issues, especially as far as who will be the candidate, there are various cheering sections all around the convention floor for certain pet issues and state loyalties. I can imagine speakers this year having each and every sentence in their speeches scrutinized by the delegates and responded to with either cheers or boos—and cheers or boos increasing on each successive occasion—to denounce or praise the issue being discussed in hopes of giving either Trump, Cruz or Kasich the edge they need to push them over the top. VargasMilan (talk) 02:26, 12 April 2016 (EDT)

Atheism and cannibalism‎

Do we really need an article on this? Is this consistent with Conservapedia's vision as an educational resource for high-school-age students, as Andy explained so well here?

I know quite a number of atheists, and, as far as I know, not a single one of them is a cannibal. Perhaps cannibalism‎ among atheists is not such a serious problem in the United States that teenagers really need to be warned about it.

SamHB (talk) 13:06, 14 April 2016 (EDT)

Speaking on general "religion," what I see is that many "civilized" atheists are more against cannibalism than those who hold some kind of spiritual belief. Why? To an atheist, the body is all there is, but to someone religions, the human body is only a small part of their existence. Therefore, those who are religious see the human body as less valuable than those who are not. This article itself mentions it is "usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being." A ritual implies some (perverse) spiritual belief.Of course, to be more specific, Christianity does not permit cannibalism...obviously.
I see how this argument is created, but many things Christianity discourages, so do common morals. Murder, adultery (still frowned upon by most), theft, and oh yes, cannibalism. Perhaps this is because of certain parts of God's law still embedded in atheistic cultures, but none the less, many atheists are very strongly against this. --David B (talk) 13:26, 14 April 2016 (EDT)
DavidB4, thanks for your comment to SamHB.
SamHB, you did an excellent job of setting up a strawman argument and then knocking it down. My apologies for not mentioning in the article that the atheists you know are not cannibals (as far as you know). Anytime you want to refute the Atheism and cannibalism article, let me know. Conservative (talk) 14:06, 14 April 2016 (EDT)

Yet more on the repeated 500 errors

I know people have said things about this before, but such comments always seem to be ignored or minimalized. Every day or two, I get a "500" (Internal Server) error message. Sometimes the site is unavailable for up to an hour and a half before I can get on again. This is not:

  • A network problem - I have seen this on at least four different networks, one of which is a high-end professional network.
  • Browser problem - By definition, this is a code the server returns, but I've tried at least 6 different browsers, with at least 3 different core engines
  • User problem - believe it or not, I do know what I'm doing


That said, I understand that 500 errors are by definition unknown problems. They are sent when the server knows that something bad happened, but has no idea what and couldn't even retrieve the usual error page to serve. In other words, 500 errors are a pain, especially when they come and go. Perhaps there is really nothing which can be done about this. I will say that I've seen this kind of problem before with lower-price web hosting. In my opinion, this is often the source of a 500 error, but I know there are many others as well. If this is the case, complaining to the service provider or changing providers may be the only way to resolve this.

If this is an issue which everyone else does not really care about, then feel free to ignore this post entirely. However, I thought I would just try to show that this is indeed a problem. I know I would want to know if my public website was going down for one or more hours every couple days. Here are some "proof" images (although I know they could be faked) in case my word isn't enough.
March 4th, 2016 at about 10am
March 8th, 2016 at about 2pm
March 10th, 2016 at about 2pm
March 16th, 2016 at about 6pm
March 18th, 2016 at about 8am
March 30th, 2016 at about 3pm
April 2nd, 2016 at about 10pm
April 5th, 2016 at about 12pm
April 8th, 2016 at about 9am
April 8th, 2016 at about 9am #2 - Three browsers shown when IE worked but no others did. This was the only time I know of when this happened, and is a bit of a discrepancy.
April 11th, 2016 at about 11am
April 14th, 2016 at about 9am
Need I go on? Just to be clear, I am not posting this just to complain, but to try to be helpful. Have a great day! --David B (talk) 14:40, 14 April 2016 (EDT)

Copyright

Many of us have been spending most of the past month trying to clean up after TAR. The fact that so many copyright problems have been left behind indicates that Conservapedia editors may not appreciate the importance of copyright law. The edit box always displays the statement "You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource (see Conservapedia:Copyrights for details). Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!" Permission means an agreement not only to place the text on Conservapedia, but also to license it to others on the same basis that all other Conservapedia content is licensed. In some cases, TAR just copied and pasted from other websites without attributing the content to them. In other cases, TAR copied large portions of text that a blog had quoted from another source. I would suggest that everyone take the time to read Conservapedia:Copyrights again. I also believe that we need more talk page templates to document when people have received permission to copy material. I assume that getting written permissions would be best, and that they should be stored in some central place, just in case misunderstanding occur in the future. JDano (talk) 08:46, 24 April 2016 (EDT)

The greatest problem for me is that I don't know if they have the right to copy on not, so I agree--it really would help to have a single place where permission proof is stored. I don't know how that would work, though. --David B (talk) 08:39, 25 April 2016 (EDT)
We could have a template on the talk page which references the letter sent to Aschlafly. Perhaps the letters in the file could be numbered, and the number inserted in the template parameter. The problem is that TAR copied verbatim from a particular blog that welcomed guest editors or copied from them. Under US copyright law, the copyright belongs to the author. We don't know if the author gave the copyright to the blog owner or licensed it with restrictions. The email from the blog owner to TAR was not clear about what licensing rights he conveyed further. He just said, "You can quote my blog up to 800 words at a time." That does not give Conservapedia the right to further license the reuse of the quote (which we generally do.) There is no need to quote that blog verbatim, and TAR should have written his own definitions when he posted them are separate articles. It is almost as if he was trying to generate 100 one-sentence articles each with a footnote to a particular author (perhaps for the search engines). But we now have 100 copyright headaches.
If Aschlafly had a scanner, we could post scanned copies of each permission letter somewhere on the internet and put a link in the talk page template. JDano (talk) 02:09, 4 May 2016 (EDT)

Please unlock

Please unlock the Essay:Rebuttal to Counterexamples to Relativity page. I need to reinstate (uncomment) item #22, to track the reinstated item #22 in the main counterexamples page. SamHB (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2016 (EDT)

Please don't lock pages (other than templates and other things that can do an inordinate amount of damage.)

I have recently had (and still have) problems with pages being locked. It's easy to see that these acts were performed in response to vandal attacks. But it really isn't a good idea.

  1. It makes it harder for people to do their work, obviously. We have to request that the page be unlocked. And those requests sometimes go unheeded. See, for example, my request, just above, which has still not been acted upon. The two pages are supposed to stay synchronized with each other; there is a big editor-only-visible comment to that effect at the top of each page, but they are out of sync, and I can't fix this.
  2. It gives the impression that Conservapedia is not an open-editing "best of the public" web site. It could be taken as evidence that the administrators do not trust the public. Not trusting the public is not a conservative value.
  3. It is ineffective. We often have vandal attacks, in which someone vandalizes as many pages as possible before they get stopped. The locking is obviously a response to these attacks. But people engaging in mass vandalism will just go on to another page when they see one that is locked. The total number of pages that they vandalize before they are stopped is still the same. The amount of work that sysops (or, in a few cases, I) must do to clean up the mess is the same.

SamHB (talk) 19:00, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

If it's any consolation, I agree, but your argument seems to have fallen of deaf ears. In my opinion, protection should be reserved for some templates, and perhaps pages which are under heavy attack for a few days at most. While it's true that they can go vandalize elsewhere, sometimes an organized effort is made to attack a single page for one reason or another. For this reason, it could be helpful to temporally protect such a page. However, I'm not as experienced on CP as the admins here--perhaps they have tried it this way and already know it doesn't work. I won't presume to understand exactly how their job works. --David B (talk) 11:52, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

What's going on with user "SoridAtom"?

Can someone explain why SoridAtom's writings were treated the way they were? He wrote an article Atheism is the default position that, within the space of 36 minutes, Cons deleted, restored, deleted again, restored again, moved to an essay with a redirect, deleted the redirect, and deleted the essay, as well as blocking him.

I looked at it, and found nothing outside of Conservapedia's stance on these issues. It seemed to lie fully within what is commonly accepted. I made some notes to myself for future criticism (gently, not fire and brimstone) about the fact that it had two astonishingly bad run-on sentences. One of them had three main clauses and one subordinate clause, without a single comma anywhere. It went on for 3-1/2 lines on my screen.

I would not have bothered with this if I had thought it was going to be considered trolling or vandalism, or if I had thought that he would be blocked for "liberal trolling" or some similar block reason.

Could someone please restore this, so that we can see what it was about? SamHB (talk) 01:26, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

It was a copy and paste job and I thought his username was sordidatom. I misread his username. I can unblock him, but I am not going to restore his cut and paste essay. Conservative (talk) 01:41, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

The family-friendly nature of this site is being willfully undermined

The bestiality article contains, in the first section, this big quote, with a footnote reference to the "newsreport3738" web site. (By the way, the Conservapedia article says that the quote is about "secular Europe", whereas the actual quote says nothing about being secular.)


“ Bestiality is having a weird renaissance in Europe. Perhaps ironically, it kicked off when activists succeeded in banning the practice in places like Germany and Norway. In the background, something else emerged simultaneously: an animal-sex-tourism industry, which has been blossoming in Denmark. [footnote was changed; see below] ”

For a few days, the web reference was out there for all to see. When you went to that site, you had to make one more click to get to the actual quote. I won't repeat The URL of the web page on which that quote was found (it's since been taken down), other than to say that it has the animal-f***ers phrase, but the full quote on that page had a little extra something in front, in a large boldface font.

“

Animal F***ers

Bestiality is having a weird renaissance in Europe. Perhaps ironically, it kicked off when activists succeeded in banning the practice in places like Germany and Norway. In the background, something else emerged simultaneously: an animal-sex-tourism industry, which has been blossoming in Denmark.

”

The quote went on well beyond that first paragraph, and had a video of a person detailing his tastes in bestiality. The whole thing was utterly disgusting and obscene. And yet it was here at Conservapedia. The third of the Conservapedia:Commandments says that everything, including links, must be "... family-friendly, clean, concise, and without gossip or foul language".

Can someone clean this place up? I'm trying to get students of high school age to read my stuff, and I'm sure a lot of other people are as well. SamHB (talk) 21:21, 13 May 2016 (EDT)

It's gonna a big job that would require some cooperation between editors. Is this the page those sorts of things are discussed? Rob Smith (talk) 22:44, 13 May 2016 (EDT)
Yes. In December 2014 (probably while you were away) we made an effort to keep MainTalk focused on improving the content of the main page and not get cluttered with all these other discussions. Community Portal was pretty much a ghost town at the time. The attempt seems to have succeeded. So, Yes. This is the place. Even though it means that this page gets cluttered with irrelevant things about evolutionists wanting to have sex with animals. SamHB (talk) 15:01, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
Evolutionists having sex with animals? perhaps. I suppose it were possible for a Christian to have sex with animals, but he/she/other could always ask God for forgiveness. Rob Smith (talk) 21:20, 15 May 2016 (EDT)
The godless European evolutionists who want to have sexual relations with their furry "kissing cousins" is an embarrassing problem for evolutionists. It's a shame that pseudoscience would help create such depravity.
Second, a new source is being used for the information and the new source is at: http://combatingatheism.blogspot.com/2016/05/secular-europes-weird-bestiality.html Conservative (talk) 23:22, 13 May 2016 (EDT)
Yes, indeed! The reference on the bestiality page was subsequently changed to point to a Conservapedia administrator's blog, to which the text was copied, but without the Animal F***ers phrase. And the whole thing (minus that phrase) was a quote of something in the "vice news" website, the name of which says it all. SamHB (talk) 20:14, 15 May 2016 (EDT)
Ah c'mon Cons! Vice News a "new source" indeed! It would be amusing if it weren't so pathetic. It's a lie, Cons, and we all know it. AlanE (talk) 01:05, 14 May 2016 (EDT)

So, Europe is not very secular and several evolution loving countries didn't have a problem with bestiality recently? The Jerusalem Post was wrong and Copenhagen was not the "bestiality capital" of Europe? The first "bestiality rights" organization in the world didn't happen in Europe? Liberals, it is time to stop living in denial!

AlanE, according to Wikipedia, a website founded by an atheist and an agnostic: "In December 2013, Vice Media expanded its international news division into an independent division dedicated to news exclusively and created Vice News. Vice Media put $50 million into its news division, which now has 34 bureaus worldwide and has been praised for in-depth coverage of international news."[66] Here is the source they used: "Vice News Launches, Promising 'Changing Of The Guard In Media'". Forbes. AlanE, is Forbes magazine a news organization?

Atheists, agnostics, evolutionists and liberals, it is time to put on your sackcloth and ashes and repent of your foray into the decadent sin of bestiality! You were caught red-handed!

Just admit it. There was a notable problem in the atheist population with bestiality and the young earth creationist community didn't have this problem despite the Amish being around animals frequently! The Amish are a tight-nit community and unlike atheists, they haven't had a notable problem with bestiality or loneliness. See also: Atheism and loneliness and Atheism and bestiality. Conservative (talk) 06:31, 14 May 2016 (EDT)

"As of today, serious journalism officially has a home on Vice: Vice News. The new web channel launched today with reports from Myanmar, Russia, Venezuela and other global hot spots." - Forbes Magazine, 3/14/2014.[67]Conservative (talk) 06:50, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
I am taking a break from the internet for awhile for the most part. The issue has been resolved.
Also, there was a notable problem with bestiality in secular Europe. Some European governments passed laws in order to tamp down the problem. Hopefully, there will not be a significant problem with illegal activity in this matter. Conservative (talk) 11:30, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
I agree. No parent who has their child's welfare as a priority would not allow them to visit Conservapedia. What was once a good conservative resource, meant for children, has devolved into resource that has many more words on bestiality than the Lord of the Rings has on Hobbits.--JamieVa (talk) 11:18, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
There are some articles related to bestiality that tie it to atheism, evolutionism, liberalism and homosexuality using relevant information. That is what is getting some liberals upset.
None of the web pages being linked in the article are from disreputable/salacious sources. In fact, LifeSite News, a pro-life news website which the owner of the website very much likes, has material on the bestiality problem which occurred in Sweden which I cited in the article. Conservative (talk) 12:09, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
ad infinitum. And I do like your policy of multiple oversights of your posts when you are backed into a corner, very convenient.--JamieVa (talk) 11:54, 14 May 2016 (EDT)

JamieVa, I changed my mind about responding to critics. Not a big deal.

Second, I notice you did not respond to the issue that LifeSiteNews.com, one of Andy's favorite websites, has an article on the bestiality problem that recently occurred in Sweden and this was material was quoted at Consrvapedia. Was I wrong in doing this? The Bible mentions bestiality several times. Is LifeSiteNews.com and the Bible family unfriendly? I don't think so! Conservative (talk) 12:09, 14 May 2016 (EDT)

Yes, the Bible mentions bestiality, and LifeSiteNews does also. But neither mentions it under the name Animal F***ers. (I did searches of the NIV, ASV, CEB, DRA, ESV, GNT, ISV, KJV, TLB, RSV, and CBP translations.) The topic of this section is not bestiality per se, or whether Conservapedia should mention it (though I think it shouldn't), but about the appropriateness of having a clean and family-friendly website draw people's attention to the phrase Animal F***ers. SamHB (talk) 20:14, 15 May 2016 (EDT)
Is it a sin? Yes. Is it condemned in the Bible? Yes. Is it a problem in the world today? Yes. Is it an appropriate topic to be mentioned or redirected to on a total of 210 pages on CP, a site primarily for young homeschoolers to be using? No, I don't think so. Is it a good idea to cite sources with such crude language on an educational resource? No, I don't think so. Ask just about any librarian in the world, about where to find good sources for a paper, and they will eventually come around to Wikipedia--not the content, but the sources. They often suggest you look up your topic on WP, and scroll right to the bottom and view all the resources cited. If CP hopes to be popular and useful, it should be assumed that people may do this here as well. Using such resources makes us look bad and unprofessional, promotes their content, and gives them more traffic to their website, which not only makes them think people like it but also potentially improves their website's ranking. Meanwhile, our ranking will be reduced since we refer to links of such poor quality. If you are concerned about what search engines think of CP as you seem to be, Cons, you might want to even consider this if nothing else.
Meanwhile, other sins which are mentioned in the Bible (more frequently, in some cases) are mentioned much fewer times by CP. (For example, adultery: 192, Polygamy: 82, and Blasphemy: 103) I know it's an issue, but can we give such a disgusting sin a rest, and not shock the poor pre-teen who has the misfortune of clicking on Random Page one too many times? They'll need to learn eventually, but some things are best taught by parents. --David B (talk) 09:22, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
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